153455 réponses à ce sujet

[ThoughtlessRanter]

... So, because Solas is more complicated than a straightforward friend, it makes him evil and Hitler and stuff?

 

Stellar logic, that.

 

Also - no, he didn't "give" anyone the Mark, his plan was to get it for himself. Inky being Marked is both on Corypheus AND Inquisitor, who disrupted Cory's ritual. Solas actually saved your life - the hand was simply too far gone at that point. If he didn't intervene, Inkys would likely lose entire body, not just a section of their left arm.

Nazi/Hitler we will make Germany better for the true Germans. The Jews must die tho!

Solas I will make the world better for the elves. Everyone else must die tho

 

Uh, yeah still his fault

[Colonelkillabee]

Hah. Maybe just a more female preference then (not trying to sound offensive or whatever just asking) romances targeted at women tend to be a little ummm... shall I say Twilighty and these things must get popular for a reason right? I guess male targeted romances are bad in there own ways tho...

 

No I dont think they are psychotic (minus Solas he def is) but the romances seem a lot more crazy. 

Yeah it was your fault if Bull betrayed you, but the possibility he could is still crazy

When is say psycho I mean crazy and Solas is definitely been spending too much time in wackoville.

Yes, most people know psycho is crazy, and saying that doesn't change your statement at all. If you're saying you think his plan is stupid, I don't disagree, but the man is far from insane. So far anyway.

 

I don't see how a man siding with his country against yours is cray, I'd say it's more cray that quizzy decided to start something with a spy from an analogue of Islam and Communism. That said, I get what you're saying. The romances have more potential for drama and ending badly for the female choices.

 

I think Bioware assumes women need more drama than men do to make these potential relationships interesting. Going from what I've seen my fellow men say about Cass, and what they like, I'd say they're not far off, even if some or most women are tired of the extreme left and rights of their romances.

 

And I don't know, Morrigan's relationship, Isabella's and finally Merril's was rather crazy. Leliana and Josephine are rather honeypie boring too. I don't think there's much difference really, I just think guys are more content with their options and having crazy girlfriends or boring ones with safe outcomes.

[drosophila]

Hah. Maybe just a more female preference then (not trying to sound offensive or whatever just asking) romances targeted at women tend to be a little ummm... shall I say Twilighty and these things must get popular for a reason right? I guess male targeted romances are bad in there own ways tho...

 

ThoughtlessRanter, I am interested in the origin of your account name.

 

Is it the name given to you under the Qun? 

 

Is it your spirit name? 

 

Did you take that new name for yourself after the elven god you served was killed? 

 

If you're going to make sweeping generalizations about an entire gender and their romantic preferences, could you be more thoughtful when phrasing them and considering how they might sound to the members of that gender?

[Garnet]

They do not have any gross ingredients.

What about the bli--iiiiaringly obvious raisins? 

[midnight tea]

Nazi/Hitler we will make Germany better for the true Germans. The Jews must die tho!

Solas I will make the world better for the elves. Everyone else must die tho

 

Uh, yeah still his fault

 

No, he actually tells Inquisitor that people MAY die. He isn't hell-bent on destroying the world - more like changing something in it which may result in destruction, just like creating Veil was.

 

Also - Hitler saw Germans destined to be ruling over others and the reason he exterminated Jews with so much hatred was because he thought they falsely claimed the title of God's "chosen ones" (in that regard he's much closer to Corypheus, who was hell-bent on destroying Inkys because he saw them as his rivals).

 

Nothing of the sort motivates Solas. He never said anything like "I will make the world better for the elves", only that he will try and save them. It appears that if things go their course, either all of the elven race will be extinct, or the world will be destroyed anyhow (Blight is still a threat and a growing one). He tells Varric at some point that all of Thedas is running out of time anyhow.

[drosophila]

What about the bli--iiiiaringly obvious raisins? 

 

The raisins are not gross! They just make the cookies extra special!

[Colonelkillabee]

Also - Hitler saw Germans destined to be ruling over others and the reason he exterminated Jews with so much hatred was because he thought they falsely claimed the title of God's "chosen ones".

Sort of. More like, the modern Jews of today falsely claimed the title of Jew, who were God's chosen ones. Meaning, they aren't the Jews of the Bible. It's a stolen title that belonged to people we'd consider black today. Same as Egyptians, black and Islamic.

[midnight tea]

Sort of. More like, the modern Jews of today falsely claimed the title of Jew, who were God's chosen ones. Meaning, they aren't the Jews of the Bible. It's a stolen title that belonged to people we'd consider black today. Same as Egyptians, black and Islamic.

 

The whole "chosen of God" business is silly for me anyhow, but the fact remains that Hitler's hatred of Jews was based on his wacky religious beliefs (he did seem to think he was on a mission from God) and conviction that Aryans/Germans are superior in every way and should rule all others.

[Colonelkillabee]

The whole "chosen of God" business is silly for me anyhow, but the fact remains that Hitler's hatred of Jews was based on his wacky religious beliefs (he did seem to think he was on a mission from God) and conviction that Aryans/Germans are superior in every way and should rule all others.

Not quite, his hatred of the Jews was more than just a religious thing. Actually, a lot of blacks are angry at them too for what they see as stolen history/culture. There were, believe it or not, actually people of color within the Nazi army for similar reasons. Hitler used that and other things to try and get people to hate the Jews.

 

Not all religious and not all inaccurate, even if he was still evil and simply used this to unify Germans under him against a common enemy as they saw it. It was convenient for blaming their woes on and riling up his people. That's the main motivation, and it worked.

[ThoughtlessRanter]

They do not have any gross ingredients.

Were they made with love? And if so, whose,cuz I'm not accepting Solas's.

 

Well, I mean, he could have just killed you then and there without much effort. It'd probably make things easier for him, actually. 

 

Also, technically the Inquisitor gave themselves the mark. They were certainly never meant to have it!

So, he's slightly less a bassterd than completely evil? Doesn't excuse him or make it better.

 

Yes, most people know psycho is crazy, and saying that doesn't change your statement at all. If you're saying you think his plan is stupid, I don't disagree, but the man is far from insane. So far anyway.

 

I don't see how a man siding with his country against yours is cray, I'd say it's more cray that quizzy decided to start something with a spy from an analogue of Islam and Communism. That said, I get what you're saying. The romances have more potential for drama and ending badly for the female choices.

 

I think Bioware assumes women need more drama than men do to make these potential relationships interesting. Going from what I've seen my fellow men say about Cass, and what they like, I'd say they're not far off, even if some or most women are tired of the extreme left and rights of their romances.

 

And I don't know, Morrigan's relationship, Isabella's and finally Merril's was rather crazy. Leliana and Josephine are rather honeypie boring too. I don't think there's much difference really, I just think guys are more content with their options and having crazy girlfriends or boring ones with safe outcomes.

HUUUH Take back what you say about Josie! She is an angel! Yeah, Morrigan was screwy too, but Isabela was just struggling with her own issues, not hurting other people.

When I say he is crazy I mean this

 

I don't and I will exercise my right not to

 

Solas is lying, betraying, supremacist, racist, possibly specist, stuck up, know it all bassterd with the moral compass of a brain dead rat and hypocrisy that would make anti gay religious zealous laugh.

 

He's guilty because he sees us not people as people know because I was cool and so were some of the others but not guilty enough for his my peoples lives matter more than yours a**. He was all about freedom and the right to live and struggle to find happiness and his spirit talk always made me feel like he saw everyone equally... NOPE! You be a tranquil, but it's okay I'll put you out of your misery. Qun talk makes more sense than him, and the Qun is batsh*t insane.

 

ThoughtlessRanter, I am interested in the origin of your account name.

 

Is it the name given to you under the Qun? 

 

Is it your spirit name? 

 

Did you take that new name for yourself after the elven god you served was killed? 

 

If you're going to make sweeping generalizations about an entire gender and their romantic preferences, could you be more thoughtful when phrasing them and considering how they might sound to the members of that gender?

Ehhh ooops, sorry. Don't pitchfork me, I swear I was just making an observation! Why are they so popular!? I'm not a very thoughtful commentor, the warnings all in the username! 

[Colonelkillabee]

So, he's slightly less a bassterd than completely evil? Doesn't excuse him or make it better.

 

HUUUH Take back what you say about Josie! She is an angel! Yeah, Morrigan was screwy too, but Isabela was just struggling with her own issues, not hurting other people.

When I say he is crazy I mean this

 

Isabella endangered an entire city for a book.

[Uirebhiril]

Isabella endangered an entire city for a book.

 

She also threw a shipload of chained slaves overboard at one point to save her own skin. Yeah, I guess we can say she has issues.

[ThoughtlessRanter]

No, he actually tells Inquisitor that people MAY die. He isn't hell-bent on destroying the world - more like changing something in it which may result in destruction, just like creating Veil was.

 

Also - Hitler saw Germans destined to be ruling over others and the reason he exterminated Jews with so much hatred was because he thought they falsely claimed the title of God's "chosen ones" (in that regard he's much closer to Corypheus, who was hell-bent on destroying Inkys because he saw them as his rivals).

 

Nothing of the sort motivates Solas. He never said anything like "I will make the world better for the elves", only that he will try and save them. It appears that if things go their course, either all of the elven race will be extinct, or the world will be destroyed anyhow (Blight is still a threat and a growing one). He tells Varric at some point that all of Thedas is running out of time anyhow.

I don't recall may.

 

Also, people like the Nazis murdered because they thought they were better then someone. They aren't any peoples lives that are more valuable than another peoples. Solas thinks his people are better. He admits it! He admits to seeing modern people as less than human! Sure, I changed his mind (cuz I'm awesome) about that but it isnt friggin enough. He is still willing to kill innocent people for his better world. THAT FRIGGIN SOUNDS LIKE HITLER GODDANGIT! Now he feels bad, which is supposed to make it better? It doesn't, I'm sure it won't make all the people that will suffer and have suffered cuz of him feel better. And yeah, I realize Hitler was his own special brand of effed up, that's why I compared him to Nazis. I'm considerate. 

[Wynele]

Nazi/Hitler we will make Germany better for the true Germans. The Jews must die tho!

Solas I will make the world better for the elves. Everyone else must die tho

 

Uh, yeah still his fault

 

 

Or maybe, just maybe if  "everyone" wasn't so horrible to everyone else, he wouldn't feel he had too.

 

Solas created the veil, and destroyed his civilization. 

 

He didn't however....

 

Force Tevinter to enslave the elven survivors.  The did that on their own.  I doubt the ancient elves volunteered to be put in chains.

 

He also doesn't force the nations of modern Thedas to continue to treat elves like garbage. 

 

He also never forced mages into prisons or lyrium addiction on their jailers. 

 

He didn't brain wash an entire people (the Qunari) into believing that free will would doom the world. 

 

That's just a few things wrong with modern Thedas. and that's not even counting Blights, darkspawn, and a bunch of nations that only tolerate each other at the best of times. 

 

So, yeah. He wants to save his people.  Who wouldn't?  The world has only given him a few (if friend/romanced) reasons to save it, and about a dozen to burn it down and start over. 

 

You could argue that all of the above is a result of Solas' actions.  You could possibly be right... BUT at some point you are responsible for your own actions.  What you do with the hand your dealt says a WHOLE lot more about you than it does the dealer.  

 

 

And..uh.... yeah.. Cool it with the Nazi references, please. 

[ThoughtlessRanter]

Isabella endangered an entire city for a book.

Oh yeah, forgot about that.

I'll just retract that previous statement and use Merrill.... oh nevermind. 

I still think the romancable guys vs romancable girls have more crazy. Other than Cullen none of them are stable, and Cullen isn't really stable either. 

[midnight tea]

Not quite, his hatred of the Jews was more than just a religious thing. Actually, a lot of blacks are angry at them too for what they see as stolen history/culture. There were, believe it or not, actually people of color within the Nazi army for similar reasons. Hitler used that and other things to try and get people to hate the Jews.

 

Not all religious and not all inaccurate, even if he was still evil and simply used this to unify Germans under him against a common enemy as they saw it. It was convenient for blaming their woes on and riling up his people. That's the main motivation, and it worked.

 

There were hardly that many people of color in Nazi Germany, AFAIK. Nazi Germany hardly tolerated anyone who wasn't German or didn't prove they've had German roots - most ended up in labor camps or killed. I know - my country has been sadly turned into evisceration ground (Hitler planned to exterminate most Eastern Europeans and other 'undesirables' right after the Jews and planned turning rest into... well, slaves, serving Aryans). I myself live a kilometer or two from old labor/extermination camp, where 15 thousand people died - Jews, Poles, Romas and other people Germany considered unacceptable or inferior, which sadly included people of color.

[Colonelkillabee]

Oh yeah, forgot about that.

I'll just retract that previous statement and use Merrill.... oh nevermind. 

I still think the romancable guys vs romancable girls have more crazy. Other than Cullen none of them are stable, and Cullen isn't really stable either. 

Alistair? Prince Douchebag in DA 2?

[Colonelkillabee]

There were hardly that many people of color in Nazi Germany, AFAIK. Nazi Germany hardly tolerated anyone who wasn't German or didn't prove they've had German roots - most ended up in labor camps or killed. I know - my country has been sadly turned into evisceration ground (Hitler planned to exterminate most Eastern Europeans and other 'undesirables' right after the Jews and planned turning rest into... well, slaves, serving Aryans). I myself live a kilometer or two from old labor/extermination camp, where 15 thousand people died - Jews, Poles, Romas and other people Germany considered unacceptable or inferior, which sadly included people of color.

Yes, true, but not as much as you think. Actually, the stuff about him hating blacks came after he was over and done with to get more people to side with the Jews against Nazi thinking, and to gain assistance. Not that they needed much convincing. He thought the Aryan race was superior, yes, but that doesn't translate to outright unacceptable if you weren't, especially since he himself wasn't even German. The confusion comes from the fact that not all Nazis hated in the same way, lol.

[midnight tea]

Oh yeah, forgot about that.

I'll just retract that previous statement and use Merrill.... oh nevermind. 

I still think the romancable guys vs romancable girls have more crazy. Other than Cullen none of them are stable, and Cullen isn't really stable either. 

 

It's not really about stability, it's more about complexity. Speaking in very generalized terms, women appear to be more interested in a tad more complex, emotional ride.

[ThoughtlessRanter]

She also threw a shipload of chained slaves overboard at one point to save her own skin. Yeah, I guess we can say she has issues.

Whaa when that happen? i thought she freed them!?

 

Or maybe, just maybe if  "everyone" wasn't so horrible to everyone else, he wouldn't feel he had too.

 

Solas created the veil, and destroyed his civilization. 

 

He didn't however....

 

Force Tevinter to enslave the elven survivors.  The did that on their own.  I doubt the ancient elves volunteered to be put in chains.

 

He also doesn't force the nations of modern Thedas to continue to treat elves like garbage. 

 

He also never forced mages into prisons or lyrium addiction on their jailers. 

 

He didn't brain wash an entire people (the Qunari) into believing that free will would doom the world. 

 

That's just a few things wrong with modern Thedas. and that's not even counting Blights, darkspawn, and a bunch of nations that only tolerate each other at the best of times. 

 

So, yeah. He wants to save his people.  Who wouldn't?  The world has only given him a few (if friend/romanced) reasons to save it, and about a dozen to burn it down and start over.

 

You could argue that all of the above is a result of Solas' actions.  You could possibly be right... BUT at some point you are responsible for your own actions.  What you do with the hand your dealt says a WHOLE lot more about you than it does the dealer.  

 

 

And..uh.... yeah.. Cool it with the Nazi references, please. 

Do you realize how evil that sounds? These are people all their effedupness and struggling and stupidity, but theyre friggin people and their lives matter more than some crazy fairy land Solas imagines.

 

Didn't mean to offend you with the Nazi allegory, all the other ones are too modern (KKK, Religious Zealots, all sorts of supremacist leaders)

[Uirebhiril]

I don't recall may.

 

Also, people like the Nazis murdered because they thought they were better then someone. They aren't no peoples lives are more valuable than another peoples. Solas thinks his people are better.

 

Then I ask you this, something I brought up earlier in the thread -- what if millions of ancient elves are trapped and suffering, and will die if Solas doesn't act? He will trade the lives of the modern world -- to what degree, we don't know -- for those of his own time. Is he still bad? Would you do less? Really consider that question, and how no matter what way you choose a lot of people will end up hurt or dead. Granted, this may not be the case of what Solas is facing, but that we can speculate on this at all is why Solas is a great character. It makes us ask these questions and consider our own answers. Most of us wouldn't do it for a dozen people. Even a hundred. But if we had to choose between millions? There's no easy answer, and that is what I love about where the story left us. Whatever happens in the future, it made us stop and think and ask some interesting questions.

 

And to your other question of why stories like Twilight seem to be so popular, one way I saw it explained is that women are raised practically from birth to be modest, to act nice, not be sexual or sl*tty or anything that doesn't involve smiling pretty and acting like our carnal virtue is our only good point. But many people will still have the normal sexual thoughts and feelings and feel like they are bad for it. So then you get books like Twilight where the characters are kind of... not forced, but too caught up in things or helpless to really fight off the sexual awakening and release aspect of the main characters. It becomes "okay" for the person reading it to vicariously experience this. The shame is on the character, and not the person. You aren't a bad sexual s*ut because hey, it wasn't you! I'm sure there are other explanations, but that one makes at least some sense.

 

But honestly, if you can watch a video of two strangers grunting and moaning awkwardly, ain't no shame in someone reading a story and feeling the same things.

[Ghost Gal]

The whole "chosen of God" business is silly for me anyhow, but the fact remains that Hitler's hatred of Jews was based on his wacky religious beliefs (he did seem to think he was on a mission from God) and conviction that Aryans/Germans are superior in every way and should rule all others.

 

They also made a convenient scapegoat to get Germans to unite behind him.

 

When the Nazi party first formed and Hitler first started speaking in public, no one really listened to them or took them seriously. When they started saying all of Germany's problems were the fault of the Jews (and others), people started listening to him. When he started declaring his intention to do something about the "Jewish problem" (and others), people started backing him.

 

Also, it wasn't mainly religious grounds. Not the main reason given, anyway. That was old-fashioned and superstitious. The Germans were far too advanced, intelligent, and enlightened to hate people over something as petty as religious differences. It was a matter of scientifically-based race research that "objectively" said that Aryans were the master race and all other races were not only as good as a separate species, but genetically inferior. Based on science and reason. Because they were so sophisticated and enlightened. [/sarcasm]

 

Not quite, his hatred of the Jews was more than just a religious thing. Actually, a lot of blacks are angry at them too for what they see as stolen history/culture. There were, believe it or not, actually people of color within the Nazi army for similar reasons. Hitler used that and other things to try and get people to hate the Jews.

 

Not all religious and not all inaccurate, even if he was still evil and simply used this to unify Germans under him against a common enemy as they saw it. It was convenient for blaming their woes on and riling up his people. That's the main motivation, and it worked.

 

No, people already hated the Jews. That's what a lot of people forget. Anti-Semitism was already rampent in Europe long before Hitler even took power (and some areas pre-emptively started exterminating the Jews after Germany's "Final Solution" started taking place but before Germany even got to them, like Ukraine). All he had to do was fan the flames that were already there to spread a wildfire over Europe. That's not to say that everyone already saw the Jews as subhuman vermin or society-sucking leeches (as his party's propaganda certainly helped), and that's not to say everyone supported what they were doing (there were certainly a lot of people who spoke out or hid Jews in their homes), but still... Fact is, Hitler couldn't have amassed so much support or done what he did if there wasn't already so much anti-Semetism.

 

Still, forcing Jews out of their homes and confiscating all their worldly goods and then systematically murdering them so "good Aryan" German citizens could move into their homes and amass their wealth without having millions of pesky human beings still around to take up homes or jobs or food or air meant for "desirable" folk, could also be a motivating factor in the genocide. (In the end, it's all about money.)

 

And making the basis of discrimination on Jews "scientifically-based" rather than ideologically-based (i.e. "You're a genetically different race" rather than "You have different beliefs"), also fixed it so the Jews couldn't have gotten out of it by converting to Christianity the way many could during the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition.

[Colonelkillabee]

 

No, people already hated the Jews. That's what a lot of people forget. Anti-Semitism was already rampent in Europe long before Hitler even took power (and some areas pre-emptively started exterminating the Jews after Germany's "Final Solution" started taking place but before Germany even got to them, like Ukraine). All he had to do was fan the flames that were already there to spread a wildfire over Europe. That's not to say that everyone already saw the Jews as subhuman vermin or society-sucking leeches (as his party's propaganda certainly helped), and that's not to say everyone supported what they were doing (there were certainly a lot of people who spoke out or hid Jews in their homes), but still... Fact is, Hitler couldn't have amassed so much support or done what he did if there wasn't already so much anti-Semetism.

True indeed.

[drosophila]

Were they made with love? And if so, whose,cuz I'm not accepting Solas's.

 

They were made with much love by another forum user who's an incredibly kind-hearted person and the cinnamon roll of our thread. 

 

Ehhh ooops, sorry. Don't pitchfork me, I swear I was just making an observation! Why are they so popular!? I'm not a very thoughtful commentor, the warnings all in the username! 

 

No need to apologize to me. You're my muse, my snarkspiration. I'm really enjoying myself.

 

But for everyone else, maybe make the observations 1) less general, 2) remove any offensive words that might make people feel attacked, 3) ask yourself, "Can I come up with some counter-argument's to my statements" and if yes, refine your statement before posting.