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[Solas]

I have been lurking here for a while, but after that I just had to post, I guess.

 

Though there is some allure to the idea of being this unknown entity liking posts deep from Mythal’s temple. Each time I like a post, you know you are a step closer to the truth!

(sadly, I’m just a melancholic idiot who named her character Abelas WAY before the game was out, and ended up with a very amusing What Pride Has Wrought quest.)

 

Might as well join the discussion going on in here, there’s a lot of Solas to go around. 

AT LAST Abelas steps out from the shadows! I've noticed you lurking for some time now!

[Mims]

About Solas and ancient elves;

 

Spoiler

I agree with everything said here. I don't think Solas ever saw the Dalish or City Elves as 'his' kind. There does seem to be a certain level of arrogance present in all of the ancient elves. Even Felessan had it. But I don't know if Solas is as completely detached from them as other ancient elves are. We know that Solas did try to make contact with the Dalish, and his attempt to reach out to them was rebuffed.

 

We don't know what or why Solas did what he did in the past. But its very possible that Solas did at one point see the lesser elves as his people, or at least, worth saving from the abuse the 'upper tier' elves were putting them through. One would think if he did that, he would have had to have had a lot of hope for the future. That they could continue the empire.

 

But they couldn't. The ancient elves essentially abandoned their empire to children. I think if Solas is responsible for the destruction of his people on behalf of the lesser elves, he probably deeply regrets what he did as they did nothing with all that hope he might have put into them. They just repeated the same mistakes as his kind did.

 

So, in his eyes, why not just put things back the way they were? The elves of today are already slaves under human oppressors. Maybe that's all they'll ever be.

 

Re, Solas baby and humans

 

Spoiler

I suppose it would depend on if ancient elves are actually genetically/magically different from normal elves. We do know that elves have a somewhat weak bloodline. Add in any human blood, and it effectively gets erased.

 

One thing that I am very curious about...elves seem to blame humans for their mortality. But do we really know if that's the case? Other elves blame humans for the fall of their empire. I don't know if I trust them completely. Its possible that the magic of the ancient world was weakening long before humans ever sprang up.

[animedreamer]

This. This. This.
 

This makes me so sad! Because it's true: Neither Abelas nor Solas actually want the Dalish (or City Elves) as their people. They don't care. Solas is actually totally troubled after he notices that Lavellan is more than what she seems - and that other elves could be just like her. It's that one little diamond in a sea of sand for him, makes her unique and gives her a very powerful spirit. But that's not exactly what Lavellan wants, because, well, even if you play as a Lavellan that admits the Dalish didn't make her that way she would still try to save the elves, her people, in general. (Or maybe she says "**** you!" and follows Solas' beliefs...but would the Inquisitor really do that?)

 

I can actually see some kind of very heartwrenching option in the future, where Solas gives her the option to 'become' one of his people because of her rare spirit and thus go against all the other elves that exist in modern Thedas, or stay at the side of her people but go against him in the process.

 

Its funny that you mention this, because in my playthrough with her (Lavellan), she does acknowledge that its her and not her Dalish upbringing or clan that makes her who she is in the inquisition in terms of her wisdom and choices to which Solas is so fond of, and got a lot of approval when i picked that option during that cutscene where he is happy to see her credit herself and not the Dalish for making her who she is, though i myself think the Dalish had to have had some part in who she was as a person. It sounds odd to have a person not be influenced by their closest family in some way or another, especially when it comes to general views. Anyway i agree, i definitely could see some kind of expansion where this option of yours does come up, it might already have. In the end when confronting Corypheus I didn't pick the the first option, "I will stop you." when Coryphe-fish said something like, "We will see which one of us is worthy of being a god." I picked, "I didn't come here to be a god."

[Doveberry]

I think it's entirely possible that the modern elves are so far removed from their ancestry that they could never again become what they once were. They may actually be fundamentally different from the ancient elves in ways that aren't necessarily obvious. There must be a reason why Solas acts as though it's hopeless, after all. Perhaps they are sort of like the Tranquil; somehow forever severed from that which made their ancestors "truly" elven.

Spoiler

And I'll go out on a limb and say that Solas may very well be the individual responsible for that happening in the first place. Perhaps Solas does mean to remake the modern elves into true elves, though I doubt it. I think that whatever he intends to do could very well bring the ancient elves back, but the whole world will have to pay a steep price for that to happen. If he were to succeed, the whole of existence would probably be changed forever. My money's on him trying to bring down the veil, but he may have to release the elven pantheon in order to do that (or releasing them might be inevitable when the veil disappears).

[Sifr]

On a similar note, anyone else had the conversation with Sera about what happened at the Well of Sorrows with a non-Elven Inq?

 

My Trevelyan Mage asked her why the Chantry and the Dalish can't both be right about their Gods being real and existing, leading her to complain that my Inq was being "too elfy... and you're not even an elf!" and immediately dismissing the entire Temple of Mythal as a "ruin full of demons", since it was more easier for her to process.

 

It was interesting to see that despite what Solas says about how people can't stop being what they are, a human was more open to elven ideas about magic and their beliefs than an actual elf, who was more interested in trying to fit it into the paradigm as dictated by the human Chantry.

 

Coupled with how he doesn't get why Surface Dwarves love living topside, Cole being able to become more human, Sera's rejection of elfy-ness and magic and the Inquisitor's potential embracing of both those things, it makes me wonder... is Solas setting himself up for a failure in wanting to restore what was lost and arrogantly assuming like in his youth that he knows everything, despite the evidence that some of his preconcieved notions about things, don't necessarily ring true in the modern Age?

 

He seems to be hoping to reset the chessboard, except he's playing with outdated rules and missing half the pieces.

 

Spoiler

And the tragic irony is that he was the one who tipped it over in the first place.

[scintilla]

 

About Solas and ancient elves;

 

Spoiler

I agree with everything said here. I don't think Solas ever saw the Dalish or City Elves as 'his' kind. There does seem to be a certain level of arrogance present in all of the ancient elves. Even Felessan had it. But I don't know if Solas is as completely detached from them as other ancient elves are. We know that Solas did try to make contact with the Dalish, and his attempt to reach out to them was rebuffed.

 

We don't know what or why Solas did what he did in the past. But its very possible that Solas did at one point see the lesser elves as his people, or at least, worth saving from the abuse the 'upper tier' elves were putting them through. One would think if he did that, he would have had to have had a lot of hope for the future. That they could continue the empire.

 

But they couldn't. The ancient elves essentially abandoned their empire to children. I think if Solas is responsible for the destruction of his people on behalf of the lesser elves, he probably deeply regrets what he did as they did nothing with all that hope he might have put into them. They just repeated the same mistakes as his kind did.

 

So, in his eyes, why not just put things back the way they were? The elves of today are already slaves under human oppressors. Maybe that's all they'll ever be.

 

Calling them lesser elves is probably wrong. They were all the same people separated by class, as far as I can tell. The slaves were just as long lived and had the same breed of magic, if not the same strength, as the upper classes.

 

It really confuses me that Solas seems to blame the Dalish and city elves for what they became when they just inherited what their ancestors - his people - left them. They aren't blameless for their situation continuing as it is but they didn't do it to themselves.

 

This romance is actually starting to look pretty ugly if he sees her as so much less than himself and his people.

[Dune01]

Isn't it sweet? Love my Lavellan, love Solas.

[Tielis]

It's so nice when he just smiles at you! It's such a contrast from when he's in his haughty mode (which you see a lot of during Cole's personal quest when he argues with Varric). He always has his chin raised and he looks really tall and serious during those scenes. And then you compare that to that goofy smile when you first meet him and it's pretty adorable. I now imagine that Solas's full smiles are always lopsided, cute things. 

 

Wolf vs. Dog.  Wild and destructive vs. tamed and gentle.  We see it on Solas' tarot cards, and I think there's a lot of that imagery going on in DA, considering how the Fereldens are with their mabari.

 

This. This. This.
 

This makes me so sad! Because it's true: Neither Abelas nor Solas actually want the Dalish (or City Elves) as their people. They don't care. Solas is actually totally troubled after he notices that Lavellan is more than what she seems - and that other elves could be just like her. It's that one little diamond in a sea of sand for him, makes her unique and gives her a very powerful spirit. But that's not exactly what Lavellan wants, because, well, even if you play as a Lavellan that admits the Dalish didn't make her that way she would still try to save the elves, her people, in general. (Or maybe she says "**** you!" and follows Solas' beliefs...but would the Inquisitor really do that?)

 

I can actually see some kind of very heartwrenching option in the future, where Solas gives her the option to 'become' one of his people because of her rare spirit and thus go against all the other elves that exist in modern Thedas, or stay at the side of her people but go against him in the process.

 

Would it really be that hard of a choice for most of us?  

 

 

I think it's entirely possible that the modern elves are so far removed from their ancestry that they could never again become what they once were. They may actually be fundamentally different from the ancient elves in ways that aren't necessarily obvious. There must be a reason why Solas acts as though it's hopeless, after all. Perhaps they are sort of like the Tranquil; somehow forever severed from that which made their ancestors "truly" elven.

Spoiler

And I'll go out on a limb and say that Solas may very well be the individual responsible for that happening in the first place. Perhaps Solas does mean to remake the modern elves into true elves, though I doubt it. I think that whatever he intends to do could very well bring the ancient elves back, but the whole world will have to pay a steep price for that to happen. If he were to succeed, the whole of existence would probably be changed forever. My money's on him trying to bring down the veil, but he may have to release the elven pantheon in order to do that (or releasing them might be inevitable when the veil disappears).

 

I still think that the ancient elves are spirit/elf hybrids, and that's one of the reasons why they can't "change".  But in reality they can, because Cole can.  Now that I think about it, I'm always going to make Cole more human now, in the hopes that it helps Solas "get it".

 

So... I'm halfway through the Cullen romance and y'all had to post Abelas and I'm so flipping weary.  I've loved the ancient elves from the start... my favorite Warden was always an Arcane Warrior in Ancient Elven Armor.  This game requires so much commitment, and I really don't think I'll be able to play the entire thing more than once.

 

Now that BioWare has won GOTY, do you think it's "safe" to play the Solas romance, knowing that most likely they will continue his story/romance in an appropriately non-railroaded manner?

 

Also, is it me, or does the default female elf head #1 look like Scarlett Johansson?

[Doveberry]

Calling them lesser elves is probably wrong. They were all the same people separated by class, as far as I can tell. The slaves were just as long lived and had the same breed of magic, if not the same strength, as the upper classes.

 

It really confuses me that Solas seems to blame the Dalish and city elves for what they became when they just inherited what their ancestors - his people - left them. They aren't blameless for their situation continuing as it is but they didn't do it to themselves.

 

This romance is actually starting to look pretty ugly if he sees her as so much less than himself and his people.

I don't think that he sees her as less than him once he gets to know her. That is at the very heart of the problem. He needs her to be less than a true elf, but she surprises him at every turn.

Spoiler

And he breaks it off once he realises that she's making him think that he should probably abandon his duty to "his people" altogether.

[animedreamer]

I think it's entirely possible that the modern elves are so far removed from their ancestry that they could never again become what they once were. They may actually be fundamentally different from the ancient elves in ways that aren't necessarily obvious. There must be a reason why Solas acts as though it's hopeless, after all. Perhaps they are sort of like the Tranquil; somehow forever severed from that which made their ancestors "truly" elven.

Spoiler

And I'll go out on a limb and say that Solas may very well be the individual responsible for that happening in the first place. Perhaps Solas does mean to remake the modern elves into true elves, though I doubt it. I think that whatever he intends to do could very well bring the ancient elves back, but the whole world will have to pay a steep price for that to happen. If he were to succeed, the whole of existence would probably be changed forever. My money's on him trying to bring down the veil, but he may have to release the elven pantheon in order to do that (or releasing them might be inevitable when the veil disappears).

 

I agree with the context of what he was trying to do with the veil part but im not so sure about the other part. Being a Elf for the elf blooded people of thedas shouldn't be simply classified as some kind of genetic trait that can only be traced to Solas and Abelas type elves. Even modern Elves were said to have hard to place ages based on appearance, and depending on whos version of the them you go with lived longer lives than other races though i am aware that they have recently released information that suggest that all races live about the same life span, but the ancient elves were known to be immortal more so because they slept after a time for whatever reason, this could have been a part of their life extending process, perhaps even a rejuvenating process.

 

Solas continued interest in the Elven artifacts throughout the game, turning them on, saying they strengthen the veil to me seems more like a lie now and is in fact going to be used as a resource to remove the veil entirely. Corypheus way of opening the veil and causing the breach was the incorrect way to do it most likely, a human approach if you will in and of the fact that it was a bumbling attempt that caused more disruption and chaos than Solas originally wanted. 

 

Hmm now im thinking about all the times Solas had such polarizing views that were generally assumed factual.

 

1.) Solas questions Blackwall about the Grey Wardens and their continued efforts to stop the Blights by defeating Each Archdemon that arises. At the end he says I hope it is true, but you get the feeling he isn't being completely honest and is holding back some information. What if The Blights began as a tool used not by the Maker to punish humanity, but by the Elves of ancient times as a purge tool to try and cleanse the world of humanity and other humanoids influenced by their actions. What if they had another means to end the blight after it had served its purpose and then return from the Fade to a now cleansed Thedas... this sounds a lot more in line with what may have been when you consider Solas's actions.

 

 

2.) After the well of Sorrows Solas claims to have begged female Lavellan not to drink of the well, and when he explains his disapproval it comes off more like a parent scolding a child for making a bad decision. When you tell him that he doesn't even believe in the old gods, he becomes flustered as if he almost let the secret out. Solas always knew that the old gods were more like Ancient Elves who had a greater understanding of magic that the current citizens of thedas could never imagine. In fact im starting to think the difference and significance between him revealing that the Dalish honor their slave heritage is much more telling now.

[Dune01]

I don't think that he sees her as less than him once he gets to know her. That is at the very heart of the problem. He needs her to be less than a true elf, but she surprises him at every turn.

Spoiler

And he breaks it off once he realises that she's making him think that he should probably abandon his duty to "his people" altogether.

tbh, that makes Solas a fascist. I don't want Solas to be a fascist.

[Miss This or That]

 

 

 

Calling them lesser elves is probably wrong. They were all the same people separated by class, as far as I can tell. The slaves were just as long lived and had the same breed of magic, if not the same strength, as the upper classes.

 

It really confuses me that Solas seems to blame the Dalish and city elves for what they became when they just inherited what their ancestors - his people - left them. They aren't blameless for their situation continuing as it is but they didn't do it to themselves.

 

This romance is actually starting to look pretty ugly if he sees her as so much less than himself and his people.

 

 

...I don't think he sees as her as less than himself. I'd even go as far to say that he thinks she is the only possible 'real elf' in modern Thedas. And then he begins to wonder if there are more like her. Which is bad for his plans...

[animedreamer]

On a similar note, anyone else had the conversation with Sera about what happened at the Well of Sorrows with a non-Elven Inq?

 

My Trevelyan Mage asked her why the Chantry and the Dalish can't both be right about their Gods being real and existing, leading her to complain that my Inq was being "too elfy... and you're not even an elf!" and immediately dismissing the entire Temple of Mythal as a "ruin full of demons", since it was more easier for her to process.

 

It was interesting to see that despite what Solas says about how people can't stop being what they are, a human was more open to elven ideas about magic and their beliefs than an actual elf, who was more interested in trying to fit it into the paradigm as dictated by the human Chantry.

 

Coupled with how he doesn't get why Surface Dwarves love living topside, Cole being able to become more human, Sera's rejection of elfy-ness and magic and the Inquisitor's potential embracing of both those things, it makes me wonder... is Solas setting himself up for a failure in wanting to restore what was lost and arrogantly assuming like in his youth that he knows everything, despite the evidence that some of his preconcieved notions about things, don't necessarily ring true in the modern Age?

 

He seems to be hoping to reset the chessboard, except he's playing with outdated rules and missing half the pieces.

 

Spoiler

And the tragic irony is that he was the one who tipped it over in the first place.

The thing is though, is that the "Elven Gods" may not have been gods in the same aspect as the "Maker" in terms of Chantry belief, rather they may have been powerful mages, or entirely different beings in truth, as oppose to some ideal mythical god figure with omnipotent abilities/powers.

[scintilla]

I don't think that he sees her as less than him once he gets to know her. That is at the very heart of the problem. He needs her to be less than a true elf, but she surprises him at every turn.

Spoiler

And he breaks it off once he realises that she's making him think that he should probably abandon his duty to "his people" altogether.

 

That's not much better. He needs to effectively dehumanize everyone else to be right and that really isn't good. It also isn't good that he can only see her as 'worthy' by cutting away the culture around her; removing the pieces he doesn't want to have value.

 

...I don't think he sees as her as less than himself. I'd even go as far to say that he thinks she is the only possible 'real elf' in modern Thedas. And then he begins to wonder if there are more like her. Which is bad for his plans...

 

But she's not a "real elf." He's just pretending she's one. She can't stop being a product of her time any more than he can stop being a product of his.

[Mims]

 

 

 

Calling them lesser elves is probably wrong. They were all the same people separated by class, as far as I can tell. The slaves were just as long lived and had the same breed of magic, if not the same strength, as the upper classes.

 

It really confuses me that Solas seems to blame the Dalish and city elves for what they became when they just inherited what their ancestors - his people - left them. They aren't blameless for their situation continuing as it is but they didn't do it to themselves.

 

This romance is actually starting to look pretty ugly if he sees her as so much less than himself and his people.

 

 

Well, I don't think he actually sees her as so much less. Solas is smart person, I don't think he's completely blinded by arrogance. His hesitation seems to be because he knows she'll disagree with his scheming, not because he resents the fact that he's fallen in love with a lesser creature. Lavellan is a Dalish elf that is worthy of the heritage that he hoped for. The problem is, its not enough for him to abandon his plans. 

 

Solas's conversation with Cole seems to imply that he has considered not going through with his plans. Quite possibly because of Lavellan. If that's true, if she's real, then she now has more power over him than he'd like. He wants to correct his mistake. He's willing to sacrifice his happiness to do it.

 

One other thing worth musing- even if Solas wins, fixes the magic in the world and brings back the other elven gods. In what world would they just 'forgive' him for what he's done? I think Solas has essentially given up on him having any bit of happiness no matter what he does. He isn't going to get to be apart of this new empire. 

[Doveberry]

tbh, that makes Solas a fascist. I don't want Solas to be a fascist.

Well, for all his intelligence he is kind of dumb from time to time. I think he's just so deeply invested in his identity as someone who has a duty to his people that it colours his whole existence. Duty before everything else. So he tries to distance himself from everything that keeps him from doing that, regardless of what it means for his own happiness (or the happiness of those that are close to him). Not sure if that makes him a fascist. I just think it means he has a case of tunnel vision.

Spoiler

His imagined duty is probably amplified about a thousand times by the fact that everything is pretty much his fault. He seemingly destroyed his people while trying to protect them. Duty + need to atone = bad decisions. I don't think that he believes that the ancient elves are better than the current elves; he just seems to firmly believe that they aren't at all the same, and that nothing is more important than him saving the people that he is duty bound to protect.

[Prince of Keys]

Interrupting this serious conversation to post/link to something silly I just found on Tumblr:

Spoiler

(Source)

solas no

[scintilla]

 

Well, I don't think he actually sees her as so much less. Solas is smart person, I don't think he's completely blinded by arrogance. His hesitation seems to be because he knows she'll disagree with his scheming, not because he resents the fact that he's fallen in love with a lesser creature. Lavellan is a Dalish elf that is worthy of the heritage that he hoped for. The problem is, its not enough for him to abandon his plans. 

 

How does he define worthy of the heritage? Is it just an openness to new ideas? A willingness to listen and learn? Or does the lack of life span and magic factor into it somewhere? Because if the latter is true, she can never actually be what he would effectively be pretending she is.

[Miss This or That]

But she's not a "real elf." He's just pretending she's one. She can't stop being a product of her time any more than he can stop being a product of his.

 

And this is, for me, a problem as well. Depending on how deep his and his peoples belief of "The youth of today is worth nothing, back in my days we had ancient magic!" goes, Lavellan is screwed either way. Even if he pretends that she is one of them (and maybe, just maybe she could pretend that, too), that still doesn't mean that his people would actually welcome her in their circle. They wouldn't want her (probably) and 'her people' (the modern elves) wouldn't want her either. He would effectively make her a loner, all on his own. Great job, Solas.

[Mims]

I don't think that's a question we can really answer with what we have. I don't personally think the lifespan and magic factor is an issue- all those could technically be 'fixed' with the magic that the old empire had. But that would just be my read, unfortunately. Its very possible that he knows what he is doing could result in the current elves becoming slaves once again to the ancient elves. 

 

I love Solas as a character, but I am not assuming that he has completely altruistic intentions. Otherwise he would have just told Lavellan his plans. He has a good side, but he absolutely has a bad side as well. 

[Doveberry]

How does he define worthy of the heritage? Is it just an openness to new ideas? A willingness to listen and learn? Or does the lack of life span and magic factor into it somewhere? Because if the latter is true, she can never actually be what he would effectively be pretending she is.

I don't necessarily think it has that much to do with whether she's "worthy" or not. The ancient elves and the modern elves are clearly different from each other. It's not entirely obvious to me that Solas would think that that means that the ancient elves are better because of that (though he very well might). They're just different, and he feels that he has a duty (imagined or not) to one people that he doesn't to the other.

[Solas]

Re: Solas' approval/disapproval about the templars, the correct info was put into the OP yesterday

 

Re: babies

For me personally that's a huge "no thanks". I think that's the kind of thing that should be left to headcanon and fanfiction. do not want

[scintilla]

And this is, for me, a problem as well. Depending on how deep his belief of "The youth of today is worth nothing, back in my days we had ancient magic!" goes, Lavellan is screwed either way. Even if he pretends that she is one of them (and maybe, just maybe she could pretend that, too), that still doesn't mean that his people would actually welcome her in their circle. They wouldn't want her (probably) and 'her people' (the modern elves) wouldn't want her either. He would effectively make her a loner, all on his own. Great job, Solas.

 

Yeah, I doubt whatever he's doing is going to do Lavellan any favors.

 

I don't think that's a question we can really answer with what we have. I don't personally think the lifespan and magic factor is an issue- all those could technically be 'fixed' with the magic that the old empire had. But that would just be my read, unfortunately. Its very possible that he knows what he is doing could result in the current elves becoming slaves once again to the ancient elves. 

 

I love Solas as a character, but I am not assuming that he has completely altruistic intentions. Otherwise he would have just told Lavellan his plans. He has a good side, but he absolutely has a bad side as well. 

 

Isn't calling what he's done a mistake kind of saying that the elves would be better off as slaves in his time than whatever they are now? I wonder if whatever he does will end up in the current elves being enslaved. I almost want to see his reaction to that.

 

Agreed on him not having completely altruistic intentions. Actually, his intentions are potentially extremely self-centered depending on how bad things get once he does whatever it is he's planning.

[zambixi]

This thread moves so fast! I haven't caught up so apologies if I repeat....

 

Also guys I had a dream last night that combined Dragon Age with Final Fantasy X. At the end there's the Yuna x Tidus scene where you find out Tidus isn't real but instead it was Lavellan and Solas and 10,000x worse and I woke up crying it was too much. I hope that doesn't happen I want Solas to be real!! I want them to be real together! /emotionalfreakout

 

About Solas and ancient elves;

 

Spoiler

I agree with everything said here. I don't think Solas ever saw the Dalish or City Elves as 'his' kind. There does seem to be a certain level of arrogance present in all of the ancient elves. Even Felessan had it. But I don't know if Solas is as completely detached from them as other ancient elves are. We know that Solas did try to make contact with the Dalish, and his attempt to reach out to them was rebuffed.

 

We don't know what or why Solas did what he did in the past. But its very possible that Solas did at one point see the lesser elves as his people, or at least, worth saving from the abuse the 'upper tier' elves were putting them through. One would think if he did that, he would have had to have had a lot of hope for the future. That they could continue the empire.

 

But they couldn't. The ancient elves essentially abandoned their empire to children. I think if Solas is responsible for the destruction of his people on behalf of the lesser elves, he probably deeply regrets what he did as they did nothing with all that hope he might have put into them. They just repeated the same mistakes as his kind did.

 

So, in his eyes, why not just put things back the way they were? The elves of today are already slaves under human oppressors. Maybe that's all they'll ever be.

 

Re, Solas baby and humans

 

Spoiler

I suppose it would depend on if ancient elves are actually genetically/magically different from normal elves. We do know that elves have a somewhat weak bloodline. Add in any human blood, and it effectively gets erased.

 

One thing that I am very curious about...elves seem to blame humans for their mortality. But do we really know if that's the case? Other elves blame humans for the fall of their empire. I don't know if I trust them completely. Its possible that the magic of the ancient world was weakening long before humans ever sprang up.

 

Spoiler

I still don't think he wants things restored to exactly the way that they were. I do think there is some major element that is different from what it was in the past (my bet is on the Veil), and he wants to set that back to how it was. He's not wearing rose-colored glasses about the creators though; he talks frankly about their less-appealing qualities. He can't stand the Circle or the Qun, I doubt he'd suddenly be OK with other types of slavery just because elves are the ones perpetuating it.

 

I don't think modern elves are that different genetically than ancient elves. In TME, Briala and Felassan seem affected by the eluvians in the same way: it's pleasant for both of them (and not at all pleasant for the humans). I'd say their blood is the same, but that modern elves for whatever reason can't access the immortality and resistance to disease stuff. We don't even know if Solas is still immortal do we?

 

Its funny that you mention this, because in my playthrough with her (Lavellan), she does acknowledge that its her and not her Dalish upbringing or clan that makes her who she is in the inquisition in terms of her wisdom and choices to which Solas is so fond of, and got a lot of approval when i picked that option during that cutscene where he is happy to see her credit herself and not the Dalish for making her who she is, though i myself think the Dalish had to have had some part in who she was as a person. It sounds odd to have a person not be influenced by their closest family in some way or another, especially when it comes to general views. Anyway i agree, i definitely could see some kind of expansion where this option of yours does come up, it might already have. In the end when confronting Corypheus I didn't pick the the first option, "I will stop you." when Coryphe-fish said something like, "We will see which one of us is worthy of being a god." I picked, "I didn't come here to be a god."

 

You can even denounce your clan during the early Q&A conversations in the game. You don't have to like being Dalish.

 

 

I think it's entirely possible that the modern elves are so far removed from their ancestry that they could never again become what they once were. They may actually be fundamentally different from the ancient elves in ways that aren't necessarily obvious. There must be a reason why Solas acts as though it's hopeless, after all. Perhaps they are sort of like the Tranquil; somehow forever severed from that which made their ancestors "truly" elven.

Spoiler

And I'll go out on a limb and say that Solas may very well be the individual responsible for that happening in the first place. Perhaps Solas does mean to remake the modern elves into true elves, though I doubt it. I think that whatever he intends to do could very well bring the ancient elves back, but the whole world will have to pay a steep price for that to happen. If he were to succeed, the whole of existence would probably be changed forever. My money's on him trying to bring down the veil, but he may have to release the elven pantheon in order to do that (or releasing them might be inevitable when the veil disappears).

 

Spoiler

Well the Tranquil can become un-tranquil...Maybe there's something the elves can do to regain their lost attributes?

 

On a similar note, anyone else had the conversation with Sera about what happened at the Well of Sorrows with a non-Elven Inq?

 

My Trevelyan Mage asked her why the Chantry and the Dalish can't both be right about their Gods being real and existing, leading her to complain that my Inq was being "too elfy... and you're not even an elf!" and immediately dismissing the entire Temple of Mythal as a "ruin full of demons", since it was more easier for her to process.

 

It was interesting to see that despite what Solas says about how people can't stop being what they are, a human was more open to elven ideas about magic and their beliefs than an actual elf, who was more interested in trying to fit it into the paradigm as dictated by the human Chantry.

 

Coupled with how he doesn't get why Surface Dwarves love living topside, Cole being able to become more human, Sera's rejection of elfy-ness and magic and the Inquisitor's potential embracing of both those things, it makes me wonder... is Solas setting himself up for a failure in wanting to restore what was lost and arrogantly assuming like in his youth that he knows everything, despite the evidence that some of his preconcieved notions about things, don't necessarily ring true in the modern Age?

 

He's in effect hoping to reset the chessboard, except he's playing with outdated rules and missing half the pieces.

 

Spoiler

And the tragic irony is that he was the one who tipped it over in the first place.

 

 

Spoiler

 

Calling them lesser elves is probably wrong. They were all the same people separated by class, as far as I can tell. The slaves were just as long lived and had the same breed of magic, if not the same strength, as the upper classes.

 

It really confuses me that Solas seems to blame the Dalish and city elves for what they became when they just inherited what their ancestors - his people - left them. They aren't blameless for their situation continuing as it is but they didn't do it to themselves.

 

This romance is actually starting to look pretty ugly if he sees her as so much less than himself and his people.

 

 

That's not much better. He needs to effectively dehumanize everyone else to be right and that really isn't good. It also isn't good that he can only see her as 'worthy' by cutting away the culture around her; removing the pieces he doesn't want to have value.

 

 

 

But she's not a "real elf." He's just pretending she's one. She can't stop being a product of her time any more than he can stop being a product of his.

 

I don't think he looks down on him as much as you're saying he does.

Spoiler

First, he constantly tries to teach Sera and Lavellan about what actually happened and what actually used to be in the world. If he hated them or thought them incapable, he would just write them off and that would be the end of it. If the Dalish and City Elves came to him asking for advice and wisdom, I think he would share it happily. The thing he does not like, is that when he tries to share what he knows they cast him off.

 

I also never got the impression that he hates Dalish culture in practice. It seems he's more sad at how far they have come from the Empire, and how they cling to things that he believes were the worst parts of Elven culture. The fact that they do so with impunity is - again - what I think gets under his skin. He never says "Lavellan riding around on halla is dumb why don't you just use horses?" or something like that. He's not really insensitive. He just values the truth and scorns ignorance of it. Sort of like how you can't be mad at a child for not knowing that an stove is hot but you'll be sort of annoyed when they insist on touching it after you tell them.

 

And if you hear what he has to say and come to a different conclusion (i.e. during the Vallaslin scene), he still says that you are "perfect". He doesn't deride you for coming to the conclusion that the marks have been reclaimed and have a different meaning, because that is a logical conclusion to make and he can respect it. He would totally be mad if you called him a lunatic and told him he should stop making stuff up (it's telling that even the through the "angry" option it still sounds like Lavellan believes him. She's just mad that he always picks on the Dalish).

 

 

Well, for all his intelligence he is kind of dumb from time to time. I think he's just so deeply invested in his identity as someone who has a duty to his people that it colours his whole existence. Duty before everything else. So he tries to distance himself from everything that keeps him from doing that, regardless of what it means for his own happiness (or the happiness of those that are close to him). Not sure if that makes him a fascist. I just think it means he has a case of tunnel vision.

Spoiler

His imagined duty is probably amplified about a thousand times by the fact that everything is pretty much his fault. He seemingly destroyed his people while trying to protect them. Duty + need to atone = bad decisions. I don't think that he believes that the ancient elves are better than the current elves; he just seems to firmly believe that they aren't at all the same, and that nothing is more important than him saving the people that he is duty bound to protect.

 

He is often blinded by his pride. But I think his goals stem from more than an obligation to his People. I'm going to try to construct an imperfect metaphor here:

 

Spoiler

Imagine that you are transported to 1500's North America. Everyone is dying of smallpox. For reasons, you have access to and can make the smallpox vaccine. You know that this vaccine is great, that it would save thousands of lives and prevent the loss of many years of culture and progress. You go around telling everyone about this vaccine and how wonderful it is and how they should let you administer it because it will save lives. First, no one has any idea what a vaccine is, so you can't begin to explain to them how or why it would help as they lack even a basic knowledge of biology. Never minding the fact that you do not share a culture with them, so you might not know how to appeal to their sensibilities generally, and communication might be impossible (do you bow when you enter their village? do you speak to the mayor/leader first or only after speaking to everyone else? what gestures are seen as threatening?). You get run out of town, repeatedly. Meanwhile people continue to die. They continue to resist this knowledge that you have that would make everything better. That knowledge that you have always had and have taken for granted. To them, smallpox is a way of life and there's nothing wrong with people dying. They don't need to change the status quo and can't imagine anything better. They call you a witch or a demon and act very proud that they were able to resist your tricks. You have two options: you can let a bunch of people die, or you can start administering the vaccine by force and hoping that people will thank you for it later.

 

I think whatever knowledge Solas has, he thinks of it as a vaccine. He thinks doing whatever he's doing is the "better" option even if it results in the loss of some other things that the current people think are important. That's my view anyway

[slmisfit]

I also wonder if it wasn't that scene after Haven was destroyed where the wolves guide you forward to where the Inquisition has camped. The first time I went through that level I thought I was going to be attacked, on my second run after knowing what Solas is I had to wonder if he wasn't using some method to guide them to safety. As how else would they have found the Inquisition in that mess of a blizzard?

Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure the direction the wolf sound effects come from is the Inquisition camp (which you can see faintly glowing in the distance thanks to the bonfires they have going). I have yet another Inquisitor in the works who hasn't quite gotten to that point in the story yet. I'll try to remember to pay attention and see just where the wolves are howling from.