153429 réponses à ce sujet

[nightwolf667]

 

@ nightwolf667

 

I always figured that the little comments about the games were hints to his true nature. Not Fen’Harel, exactly, but how manipulative and perceptive he can be. Then again I am notorious for over-reaching, yes, my arms can get very sore. 

 

I would think he wouldn’t want to participate in a Wicked Grace game though. Because he’s playing one with much larger stakes. What good would it be to show to the inner-circle just how unassuming, manipulative and sly he can be? It would only raise red flags. 

I think he would be great at it though. We don’t know exactly what kind of powers he had as a god, but I always thought his moniker had less to do with outright power, more to do with his capacity to outwit. (Not to mention his love for court intrigue)

 

Even his chess game against Bull relied heavily on baiting him, he was leaving everything wide open. A second time and Bull would be more prepared and less likely to underestimate him, I think. 

 

 

Oh the stuff with the games is definitely built around the idea of showing he's clever and capable of outwitting his opponents. I also think, however, because it's a common flaw with writers trying to use these exact mechanics to show their characters are good at X, they end up forgetting that even when you're winning the game you can end up giving too much away. It's the comment Varric makes about inviting him to play Wicked Grace and Solas says he doesn't gamble much anymore, Varric then tells him that's why he doesn't really play for coin but for conversation "that way I always win".

 

This is the problem Solas gets into when he plays games with characters like Iron Bull (a spy) or Josephine or Leliana. If the point of the game is information and we assume the other characters are capable of accumulating information on him while they play, then he's already giving too much away. Blackwall it doesn't matter so much though.

 

The strategy of baiting in the chess game is one I actually find to be inconsistent with his personality and the way he plans, but that's probably because it's based on a famous chess game. He has a tendency toward dictating over baiting when it comes to his interactions with other characters and even when it comes to his overarching strategy against Corypheus (of which there isn't much, other than I leave pretty here, you pick it up, you go destroy yourself, it's a singular action though). Compare him to Varric and Dorian, they both bait in their conversations though Varric did it more in Dragon Age 2 than he does here. The same is true for Vivienne and even Sera, though she gets confused when the others refuse to snap up what she throws out.

[areopi]

Uggg... I was never able to talk with Solas about the break-up scene after it. I never got the "what about us" option. I wonder what that was about.

[Tielis]

I think we want him to come back for Lavellan and not for the kid. I don't like pregnancy fanfic for this reason. The "if I get pregnant, he would stay" is probably the worse fantasy a woman can have. The second worse is "maybe I can change him or change for him to make him stay."

 

I agree, but I think in this case they've given us too many hints that he can (or should) change.

[Sine_Amore]

I agree, but I think in this case they've given us too many hints that he can (or should) change.

I agree with this. It's obvious he's had changes in the past making him so guarded. Change is a natural part of the world. It's not easy, but it's the most inevitable thing. I'm even willing to bet he wants things to be different for him and Lavellan, but whatever he feels needs doing first has to come first. The People need him for some reason or another. /: What is one person on the grand scheme of things? (I hate myself for typing this because Lavellan is everything! Blearghle)

[Lorien19]

What would your Lavellans give Solas?

I feel like my Lavellan would give him something she made herself--if I want to be really mean to him, a tiny and intricately carved wolf statuette that she slips into the pocket of his robes. He doesn't realize it's there until after he leaves.

Hehe,I also thought about my Lavellan sliping something into his pocket.An amulet made from halla horn with "My heart belongs to you"carved Elvish.
She found it in some ancient elven ruins when she was young,and the inscription was in a rather archaic form of Elvish so she couldn't translate it properly.But she noticed him smirking when he saw the carvings and asked him what they meant.
In my headcanon she slips it in his pocket just before the final battle because even though he ended their relationship,her heart belongs to him.

Now excuse me while I get some ice cream because Dem feels...

Can't help my cheesy headcanons it would seem.

[Eivuwan]

I agree, but I think in this case they've given us too many hints that he can (or should) change.

 

I think it's best for him to change when he sees the consequences of his actions. I think it's going to be unbelievable if Lavellan can just talk him into it.

[zambixi]

I think we want him to come back for Lavellan and not for the kid. I don't like pregnancy fanfic for this reason. The "if I get pregnant, he would stay" is probably the worse fantasy a woman can have. The second worse is "maybe I can change him or change for him to make him stay."

I don't like either mentality, but I have a guilty pleasure for certain pregnancy plot lines. In Solas' case only if he had no idea what was going on, finding out like 20 years later after Lavellan moved on. It is probably an unhealthy guilty pleasure >.>

[Sine_Amore]

I think it's best for him to change when he sees the consequences of his actions. I think it's going to be unbelievable if Lavellan can just talk him into it.

I feel like love has done stranger things for stranger people. However, this is Solas and I'm not sure any of us would be really happy if it were that easy. Solas is a reasonable person as well as a passionate one. It's good to have emotions, but you can't let them rule you kinda thing.

[Abelas]

@nightwolf667

 

Yes, Solas for someone who really needs to be as unassuming as he should really is the worst secret keeper of all time. He bluntly engages everyone in discussion, he forces in and in, really doesn’t keep his opinions to himself at all. I think he has a lot of self-control considering what he probably can do, a self-control that is displayed in his particular show of arrogance being how unconcerned he is with everyone’s opinion of him, but he really does leaves hints of his nature everywhere. 

 

When I was playing the game I kept telling a friend that I loved Solas because he was the most suspicious moral-centered character I’d seen in some time. “Never mistrusted someone so much who approved of every good action I do.” Then again, we need to realize it has to be so in storytelling? I mean, it’s all stylized, reactions are exaggerated, meaningless actions carry meaning. Otherwise you risk burying the truth too deep for your audience. 

 

(EDIT: I thought they used the King's Gambit because of how easily recognizable it is, and the pawn at the end to maybe hint on the importance of little pieces, what the little people can do, etc) 

[Lorien19]

I think it's best for him to change when he sees the consequences of his actions. I think it's going to be unbelievable if Lavellan can just talk him into it.

I agree,no matter how important Lavellan might be to him,he seems like the kind of individual that places common good or what he perceives as such above his personal feelings.
I'm convinced he is sad that he had to lock the other gods away,if that's really what happened.

[Tielis]

Hehe,I also thought about my Lavellan sliping something into his pocket.An amulet made from halla horn with "My heart belongs to you"carved Elvish.
She found it in some ancient elven ruins when she was young,and the inscription was in a rather archaic form of Elvish so she couldn't translate it properly.But she noticed him smirking when he saw the carvings and asked him what they meant.
In my headcanon she slips it in his pocket just before the final battle because even though he ended their relationship,her heart belongs to him.

Now excuse me while I get some ice cream because Dem feels...

Can't help my cheesy headcanons it would seem.

 

I love this, but a sinister dark twist could turn that same halla carving into an ancient gift that Ghilan'nain once gave him while they were in bed together.  *shudder*

 

Sorry about that, and I really hope I didn't ruin your headcanon for you.  

[Mims]

I would never force a pregnancy plot upon a PC for obvious reasons. 

 

But as far as fanfiction goes- its just like anything else. Fandom is all about a certain level of wish fulfillment tied with narrative. I don't think there's anything wrong with latching onto the idea that Lavellan might have a kid, just because the situation with Solas is so shaky. It doesn't seem any more silly than any other numerous tropes that can appear. 

 

Perhaps I'm sympathetic just because I was raised by a single parent. But it just doesn't strike me as all that unusual a desire to come up in fanfiction. 

[Tielis]

I think it's best for him to change when he sees the consequences of his actions. I think it's going to be unbelievable if Lavellan can just talk him into it.

 

I agree, though I wouldn't mind if it took a bit of both.  

[Tielis]

 

@nightwolf667

 

Yes, Solas for someone who really needs to be as unassuming as he should really is the worst secret keeper of all time. He bluntly engages everyone in discussion, he forces in and in, really doesn’t keep his opinions to himself at all. I think he has a lot of self-control considering what he probably can do, a self-control that is displayed in his particular show of arrogance being how unconcerned he is with everyone’s opinion of him, but he really does leaves hints of his nature everywhere. 

 

When I was playing the game I kept telling a friend that I loved Solas because he was the most suspicious moral-centered character I’d seen in some time. “Never mistrusted someone so much who approved of every good action I do.” Then again, we need to realize it has to be so in storytelling? I mean, it’s all stylized, reactions are exaggerated, meaningless actions carry meaning. Otherwise you risk burying the truth too deep for your audience. 

 

(EDIT: I thought they used the King's Gambit because of how easily recognizable it is, and the pawn at the end to maybe hint on the importance of little pieces, what the little people can do, etc) 

 

 

But hiding in plain sight is usually extremely effective.

 

And his "mage" piece finishes off everything.  I think that's the point of the match right there.  Pride again.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Hey folks, I have a quick question: Does Solar have an Inner Circle quest besides the Hinterlands artifact thing?

 

I have done everyone's personal quest but Solas doesn't seem to have anything other than the brief artifact investigation in the Hinterlands. I wonder if there is more.

[Lorien19]

I feel like love has done stranger things for stranger people. However, this is Solas and I'm not sure any of us would be really happy if it were that easy. Solas is a reasonable person as well as a passionate one. It's good to have emotions, but you can't let them rule you kinda thing.

I certainly agree.While I think younger Solas might have already made that mistake, the feeling that he allowed to rule him was pride instead according to what he says.I don't think he'd be eager to repeat that mistake he seems to value reason above passion and appears a bit condescending of his younger hot blooded self.
I still believe he was trying to make the world a better place,my guess is that he was absolute about his methods at the time and refused to see the effects of his actions from another perspective.
Or at least this is my interpretation according to the banter between him and Cole.

[MadameQuizzy]

But hiding in plain sight is usually extremely effective.

 

And his "mage" piece finishes off everything.  I think that's the point of the match right there.  Pride again.

 

A little headcanon came to mind (spoiler-ish): 

What if him breaking up with Lavellan is in parts also due to a realization that he prides himself in being with her? Not that this would be his main motivation for a relationship, of course, but a small part of him indulges in the fact that this mysterious, wonderful woman chose to be with him, as unbelievable as that first seems. And then he leaves her to battle his own pride, to do it right for the people, admitting that he did wrong before, because overcoming his own weakness is the only way to be with her, fully, with full attention and a pure heart.

[caridounette]

 I think Sera is less tolerant than Solas but that's just details.

 

I dont know... Id say Sera tries less. To understand others.

 

She thinks people are just people because its easier that way.. its simpler. But she has no grand understanding. Which makes her character pretty endearing, and pretty static at the same time. 

 

Solas tries to undertand. But things taken at his level are so complex.

 

The fact that there is still some humanity in him, after his choices going wrong, after his legacy being destroyed, after seeing the same actions bringing the same consequences... Its kind of a miracle, is it not?

 

But he can be a condescending a** when he gets flustered. Like try the 'were not discussing that' answer about spirits being people

[Tielis]

A little headcanon came to mind (spoiler-ish): 

What if him breaking up with Lavellan is in parts also due to a realization that he prides himself in being with her? Not that this would be his main motivation for a relationship, of course, but a small part of him indulges in the fact that this mysterious, wonderful woman chose to be with him, as unbelievable as that first seems. And then he leaves her to battle his own pride, to do it right for the people, admitting that he did wrong before, because overcoming his own weakness is the only way to be with her, fully, with full attention and a pure heart.

 

This.  It also supports my "they have to break up in order to come together properly" theory.  Of course, this theory comes from reading far too many formulaic romance novels.     I guess Cassandra would approve.

[NeverlandHunter]

Real world parallels are great. I'm passionate about this because of my real world experiences.
So first and foremost, I'm a Romantic and am constantly torn between my angst over the loss of old culture and my excitement over the new. I know change is necessary and often like it, but I'm often biased towards history.
In my defense, history is littered with cultures that have been completely demolished or forgotten. The dominant culture might appropriate aspects of other cultures that it finds beneficial, but it will usually remain the dominant culture. I can't think many real world examples where two cultures have mixed equally on a macro level. Usually the more prominent culture takes what it wants and banishes the rest. Society knows this, and that's why we have international agreements against contact with isolated groups of people, and the (bad example in practice because it is deeply flawed) reservation system in the US.
I can't comment really on the micro level because by definition it has to do with individual opinion; except to say that there's only so much one can experience as an outsider. I can bring my boyfriend to a feminist meeting but he can never understand the lived experiences of being a woman. I can live in his country for a while but I'd never be able to carry on his culture because I grew up as an American. I'd always be picking and choosing what to carry on based on my view of what's important.
In Thedas, things are complicated because elves and dwarves seem to lose their identity entirely when they have children with humans. They are physically not elves/dwarves. I'm not going to do this argument justice, but basically even if their parents raise them as elves the world is going to see them as humans. If enough elves have children with enough humans there will literally no longer be elves.
And...I don't think Sera or Varric see themselves as part of two cultures (Sera especially). They quite intentionally reject the most prominent aspects of their races. Solas as you said has the reverse problem: he thinks elves are the best and that there is some "true" nature that is the "best". I think Sera is less tolerant than Solas but that's just details.
I don't want a single future culture; to me the cost is too high. I think someone mentioned a middle ground that neither alienates those that do not want to wholeheartedly adopt the native culture and those that do...it would cause tension but I think it's the "best" option

I'm glad you brought up Native Americans because is it just me or does their predicament scream Dalish? Native American culture is disappearing. For the few people who actually care to notice it is happening rapidly. Reservations are horrible-- the drinking problems, over population, crime, and lack of education are just some of the problems these people face. And yet people continue to live on them. For some it's because they're trapped in a cycle of poverty but for others it's because they're proud. Proud of their history, their people, and their culture. I respect that they refuse to give in to goverment bribes or mainstream culture (for some), but it also doesn't change the fact that they are dwindling. The Amish too are a group of people that segregate themselves to stay separate from mainstream culture. Is it really better? It may work for a time but that doesn't change the fact that there are more and more Amish kids that don't come back from Rumspringa (hope I spelled that correctly).

And you are right when you say that there are many examples of a dominant culture indoctrinating a weaker one but I think there are plenty of examples of cultures mingling. The US is of course a prime example of this. We may have taken more from England when we developed our culture but there is so much more to our culture than our inherited English traditions. New Orleans seems almost alien (to those living outside it) with the amount of other cultures influence in it. My father's side of the family is Pennsylvanian Dutch-- certainly a very unique mix of cultures.
Elf blooded humans aren't elves, you're right, but they have a parent that is which means they still have a connection to the elves. I'd also assume that for those humans who know their parentage that elf blooded kids are probably treated pretty crappy too. And yes, if all the elves and humans bred together there would be no more elves (there would be Bretons!!!), but that's just as bad as elves and humans going into relationships together because of that. I say let al the races mix! We will have humelvenaridwarfanity! It will be wonderous! (If not strange looking) But seriously, isn't it the same as that white power idea of white people dying out because they bred with dominant genetics of darker people?
I do agree that a middle should be found. Like I said in an earlier post your culture and heritage should be respected. History should be important, but not a defining factor on how you live your life.

[Avejajed]

You guys have the best conversation.

 

I'm so happy this thread isn't all crazy smutty fangirl all day every day.

 

I mean, I'm okay with all of that, but I think we've got a happy medium now. That can't be said for some threads who have a tendency to beat conversation into the ground until there's nothing left but flailing and squealing.

[nightwolf667]

 

@nightwolf667

 

Yes, Solas for someone who really needs to be as unassuming as he should really is the worst secret keeper of all time. He bluntly engages everyone in discussion, he forces in and in, really doesn’t keep his opinions to himself at all. I think he has a lot of self-control considering what he probably can do, a self-control that is displayed in his particular show of arrogance being how unconcerned he is with everyone’s opinion of him, but he really does leaves hints of his nature everywhere. 

 

When I was playing the game I kept telling a friend that I loved Solas because he was the most suspicious moral-centered character I’d seen in some time. “Never mistrusted someone so much who approved of every good action I do.” Then again, we need to realize it has to be so in storytelling? I mean, it’s all stylized, reactions are exaggerated, meaningless actions carry meaning. Otherwise you risk burying the truth too deep for your audience. 

 

(EDIT: I thought they used the King's Gambit because of how easily recognized it was, and the pawn at the end to maybe hint on the importance of little pieces, what the little people can do, etc) 

 

 

When he finished the game, my boyfriend told me that if Sera was actually the Dread Wolf and Solas was the red herring then no one would have seen it coming. She's much more a Trickster archetype than Solas is, she actually uses the little people, and while she's very sharp the other characters (and some players) overlook her because she's "common" and she talks funny. No one knows how she got so good with that bow. This is the exact kind of character who skates by under the radar because they attack from positions where their target is blinded by prejudice.

 

I'm personally fine with how it turned out. I like that Solas is very not what I expected, at the same time I do wish he was a little better at keeping secrets. Solas is an academic. He's high brow, high minded, snobbish, and he has a lot more in common with his fellow party mages (especially Vivienne) than he wants to admit. He values intellectualism, intelligence, a willingness to learn, areas of theoretical study, and information. He hates ignorance and while he pities the unwashed masses, I doubt he empathizes with their struggles. He enjoys spending time with the nobles ("sex and secrets") and he's not actually any more aware of how to use servants in the Great Game than any of the other intelligent nobles in your party.

 

For all he tries to hide as a humble apostate, he's very aristocratic. Modern elves have been subjugated, but he never has. These are all qualities I personally love about him, though.

[Uirebhiril]

Hey folks, I have a quick question: Does Solar have an Inner Circle quest besides the Hinterlands artifact thing?

 

I have done everyone's personal quest but Solas doesn't seem to have anything other than the brief artifact investigation in the Hinterlands. I wonder if there is more.

 

He does, yes. I suppose it's linked with approval, but should be triggering at some point when you speak with him.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I don't like either mentality, but I have a guilty pleasure for certain pregnancy plot lines. In Solas' case only if he had no idea what was going on, finding out like 20 years later after Lavellan moved on. It is probably an unhealthy guilty pleasure >.>

 

Most videogame romances tick off quite a few boxes for unhealthy guilty pleasure   I am 100% on board with the heartbreak trainwrecks in Dragon Age, and would not touch any of them with a 10 foot pole IRL.  Not even Alistair, who's the comparatively normal one of the lot.  Hell, I'd probably call in a restraining order against Anders, and he's one of my favorite characters.

 

So long as video game guilty pleasure doesn't spill over IRL, IMO it's all good.

[Sine_Amore]

Honestly, perhaps he could have been more subtle if he liked, but imagine that maybe he wants to be found out? Maybe he doesn't want to be alone anymore but he doesn't know how to come out and just tell... Lavellan or whoever. Maybe he thinks them discovering it for themselves--with a little help--while journeying together would show him in a truer light than just saying: "Yo, I'm the Dread Wolf. Not everything you heard is true."

 

Until, you know, Solavellan gets kind of real and then he gets a bit scared of what she might think of him if she finds out?

 

On the other hand, mayhaps he realizes that he could truly be with someone who understands him... AFTER he takes care of whatever it is he needs to take care of. Truthfully, my mind could come up with several different scenarios for why he's so seemingly bad at keeping secrets.