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[LilyasAvalon]

Regardless of romance or not, if you speak to Cole, he'll mention a 'last' conversation that he had with Cole, where he made Cole forget about him. It's possible he made everyone else forget too. Acknowledgement would've been nice though....

[nightwolf667]

Ha! My response the first time I heard that was "dude, not cool!". I think Leliana does ask if you want to look for him though. So, maybe it was just Cole as Cole was the only one who he thought would actually be able to find him or want to go with him.

[Tielis]

So who here is hoping for a bittersweet/tragic ending to the Solas story and who is hoping for a happy ending above all else? I want to get an idea of the percentage.

 

Make a poll.  I'd like to see the results as well, but I don't want to clutter up the thread.

[Abelas]

I think it will always be hard to define what is him and what isn’t, but not just because of his nature. It’s in the end a very old question of human nature. We all project ourselves differently in various social situations and is any of them what we truly are? Doesn’t it matter that we chose to act this way, our choice of what we consider masks? 

 

He lied about who he was, and most of his lies can be traced to that one lie. Even If he was toning down certain parts of himself, I highly doubt we were just seeing a façade. First, in terms of writing a story, devoting all that time to a fake personality would be a waste of effort; second, the way he acts to a romanced Lavellan is almost like he begs her to actually see him. He insists that she saw more than most, he insists that what they had was real, he can’t even bring himself to lie about not caring; it’s important to him (I mean, just consider how what he wants most in life is to not feel alone) that she knows who he is behind all that is myth or covers. Solas violently needs this, he is someone who feels to a dangerous high of emotion, I think. 

[Tielis]

http://arimabari.tum...lla-totally-not

 

Okay, this image got me started on another crackpot theory.

 

What if Lavellan is reincarnated Ghilan'nain and she and Fen'Harel had a thing back in the day?  The story goes that Ghilan'nain was a mortal who was lifted to godhood, and her totem is the halla.

 

Then again, male mage Lavellan also has a stag card.

[Basement Cat]

Well, after a first game where Solas hated me, I managed to trigger his personal quest in my second one! What will I learn here? He is such an interesting character.

[scintilla]

I like it, but it's hard to point at any one facet of his personality and say "that's Fen'harel!" I do think that the majority of the personality he presents is his real one, he probably figures myth has him so mixed up that no one would ever be able to figure it out anyway.

 

I'm lazy so I didn't go into the depth you did with the traits we see in game but he has a whole slew of characteristics that aren't related back to how nice he is. I think ultimately he really does want good things for (most) people in the world and for the world as a whole. He cares, maybe even too much, and that's a big part of who is.

 

He lied about who he was, and most of his lies can be traced to that one lie. Even If he was toning down certain parts of himself, I highly doubt we were just seeing a façade. First, in terms of writing a story, devoting all that time to a fake personality would be a waste of effort; second, the way he acts to a romanced Lavellan is almost like he begs her to actually see him. He insists that she saw more than most, he insists that what they had was real, he can’t even bring himself to lie about not caring; it’s important to him (I mean, just consider how what he wants most in life is to not feel alone) that she knows who he is behind all that is myth or covers. Solas violently needs this, he is someone who feels to a dangerous high of emotion, I think. 

 

This. He's desperate for someone to see him for him.

 

I think there's a huge amount of passion underneath the more mild exterior, we see it when he burns up the mages and every time he gives in during the romance. He feels really, really deeply. He's probably very easy to hurt, if he's let you close enough. It's probably a factor in why his trust issues are so deep and why he so desperately needs to know that Lavellan sees him for him. Lavellan probably had more power in that relationship than most people realize.

[Mims]

We don't want to be Ghilan'nain if what Solas said about her is true. Essentially, she made numerous creatures with her magic in order to impress the gods, but killed all of them except the halla. She was just as blood crazy as the other gods. 

 

Although I do personally see my Lavellan's totem as the halla! In fact, I am very sad they changed her markings.

 

As far as a poll goes...I think its pretty clear most people want a happy ending, or at least the option for it. That does not mean bioware is obligated to deliver, even if there's an overwhelming majority. They clearly have plans for Solas, and I doubt they have completely disregarded his romance when factoring them all in. But people should still expect that there's the possibility that things may not end ideally. That's just part of the mystery. 

[nightwolf667]

I'm lazy so I didn't go into the depth you did with the traits we see in game but he has a whole slew of characteristics that aren't related back to how nice he is. I think ultimately he really does want good things for (most) people in the world and for the world as a whole. He cares, maybe even too much, and that's a big part of who is

 

I think there's a huge amount of passion underneath the more mild exterior, we see it when he burns up the mages and every time he gives in during the romance. He feels really, really deeply... and I have no idea where I'm going with this now. Totally lost my train of thought.

 

 

 

This. He's desperate for someone to see him for him.

 

Yeah, I don't actually think he's that nice. Not really. He can be kind and he can be vengeful. Woe to anyone who harms someone he cares about. He wants the best for others, but he also defines what he believes those values should be. He does certainly want to be seen for himself, as himself, but not in a "I need you to worship me" kind of way. He really gets swept away by his feelings and I have absolutely no idea if that's just him or if it's because it's been so long. I'm inclined to say it's a little of both. For someone who supposedly has all the time in the world, he's always in a bit of a hurry.

[zambixi]

We don't want to be Ghilan'nain if what Solas said about her is true. Essentially, she made numerous creatures with her magic in order to impress the gods, but killed all of them except the halla. She was just as blood crazy as the other gods. 

 

Although I do personally see my Lavellan's totem as the halla! In fact, I am very sad they changed her markings.

 

As far as a poll goes...I think its pretty clear most people want a happy ending, or at least the option for it. That does not mean bioware is obligated to deliver, even if there's an overwhelming majority. They clearly have plans for Solas, and I doubt they have completely disregarded his romance when factoring them all in. But people should still expect that there's the possibility that things may not end ideally. That's just part of the mystery. 

 

She left some others too. I think the "ones in the air" (paraphrase) went to Andruil and the "ones in the sea" were left because "they were too well wrought and pride stayed her hand". It sounded to me like the other gods asked her to do it, potentially because whatever she made was causing chaos. I'm also a bit confused how that story fits in with the traditional story about her, where she ascends because a hunter blinds her and leaves her for dead. They don't really seem like two sides of the same story...

 

Anyway, I think she's mid-tier crazy. Top is the Forgotten Ones, whoever they are. Then Andruil, Falon'Din and maybe Elgar'nan....Is it weird that I'm really excited to learn the flaws of the others? I'm having a hard time coming up with how Sylvaise and June would have been crazy. Maybe they were just complicit in the crimes of the others?

[Miss This or That]

Yeah, I don't actually think he's that nice. Not really. He can be kind and he can be vengeful. Woe to anyone who harms someone he cares about. He wants the best for others, but he also defines what he believes those values should be. He does certainly want to be seen for himself, as himself, but not in a "I need you to worship me" kind of way. He really gets swept away by his feelings and I have absolutely no idea if that's just him or if it's because it's been so long. I'm inclined to say it's a little of both. For someone who supposedly has all the time in the world, he's always in a bit of a hurry.

 

I think one of his major flaws is that he wants to be seen as himself, but he utterly fails to see others the same way. He's very, very racist and although he pities the people (individuals), he still sees their race as a whole to be utterly wrong in every way possible. Lavellan opens his eyes, in a way, but even then she's only an exception. Meanwhile, an Inquisitor that he does not get along with just proves that everyone is utter trash. He's definitely a very flawed individual. He knows very well that, if the Inquisitor can be a great person that opens his eyes (even those that he does not fall in love with but merely respects) many people can be like that as well. But instead of embracing it, he throws it all away and prefers to cut off any ties with the Inquisition, instead of trying to work for a better future.

 

By the way, I really, really wanted to draw a Solas comic today - but guess what, my graphic tablet pen broke. It was glitchy and buggy already, but now it does not register a single thing anymore.

[Hedinve]

He all kinds of lovely shades of grey. I like it! Isn't it great that we you spend page after page discussing this? Says something about the skill of the writer. I think he is kind, wise, cunning, caring, angry, calculating, open minded and stubborn all rolled into one. 

[Tielis]

She left some others too. I think the "ones in the air" (paraphrase) went to Andruil and the "ones in the sea" were left because "they were too well wrought and pride stayed her hand". It sounded to me like the other gods asked her to do it, potentially because whatever she made was causing chaos. I'm also a bit confused how that story fits in with the traditional story about her, where she ascends because a hunter blinds her and leaves her for dead. They don't really seem like two sides of the same story...

 

Anyway, I think she's mid-tier crazy. Top is the Forgotten Ones, whoever they are. Then Andruil, Falon'Din and maybe Elgar'nan....Is it weird that I'm really excited to learn the flaws of the others? I'm having a hard time coming up with how Sylvaise and June would have been crazy. Maybe they were just complicit in the crimes of the others?

 

"Pride" stayed her hand, huh?

 

But I think the only way this theory works is if she, like the rest of the elven gods, was corrupted by something, or was beginning to be corrupted by something.

[kalasaurus]

Does the game acknowledge a romance with Solas after he leaves? Is there some sort of a sweet goodbye or is it just bam, i'm gone bitchz lololo

 

Nope, he's just like bam, i'm gone bitchz lololo

 

...with the equipment you give him...

 

...and our hearts.

 

</3

[scintilla]

Yeah, I don't actually think he's that nice. Not really. He can be kind and he can be vengeful. Woe to anyone who harms someone he cares about. He wants the best for others, but he also defines what he believes those values should be. He does certainly want to be seen for himself, as himself, but not in a "I need you to worship me" kind of way. He really gets swept away by his feelings and I have absolutely no idea if that's just him or if it's because it's been so long. I'm inclined to say it's a little of both. For someone who supposedly has all the time in the world, he's always in a bit of a hurry.

 

Yeah, he cares about people but there are certainly places where his caring is conditional but that's how it is for most people. I don't think it makes a bad person so much as just a person. Also true that he feels like he can define what's best for people, that doesn't change that the intention is to make things better. It's a flaw that he believes he knows best - his pride gets the better of him in more ways than one. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, right?

 

I wonder if the Fen'Harel stories play into his need to be seen for who he is at all? Or even that fact that he used to be, for all intents and purposes, some form of nobility and now he's seen as just another "knife-ear." Which is also his pride in play.

 

He really is in a hurry, isn't he? Like he needs to take big, huge actions to fix the world instead of gradual change - which may be harder and less instantly rewarding but is probably much better in the long run. I can excuse that because he is so detached from the present. It must feel very unreal to him in a lot of ways to have things be so completely, utterly different than they were during his time. He doesn't even have what Flemythal does - to have watched the world as it changed. He just wakes up and it's all strange and wrong to him. He needs to learn to let that go but it won't be easy.

 

You quoted me before I had my thoughts totally in order. I feel dumb. My own fault for posting after going, "I give up! I can't make sense of anything!" And then making sense of my thoughts.

[drake2511]

Don't mind me

spoiler for size:

Spoiler

[Miss This or That]

Nope, he's just like bam, i'm gone bitchz lololo

 

...with the equipment you give him...

 

...and our hearts.

 

</3

 

I never understood why the Inquisitor is just like "Yup, guess he's gone, eh?" at the end of the game. And everyone else - even Cole - is just fine with going back to Skyhold. They literally do not care in the slightest that the elven apostate that was so interesting for them earlier simply "Poofed!" himself away. And then, at the end of it all, you have the option to tell Leliana that he never even said goodbye. Well...no one tried to stop him from walking away in the first place...

[kalasaurus]

I never understood why the Inquisitor is just like "Yup, guess he's gone, eh?" at the end of the game. And everyone else - even Cole - is just fine with going back to Skyhold. They literally do not care in the slightest that the elven apostate that was so interesting for them earlier simply "Poofed!" himself away. And then, at the end of it all, you have the option to tell Leliana that he never even said goodbye. Well...it's not like someone was trying to stop him from walking away in the first place...

 

Yeah, I didn't really like the part where Lavellan turns around, Solas disappears, and then she's like, "Well, job well done guys.  Time to return to Skyhold and party!".

 

Just... no 

[Mims]

 

Anyway, I think she's mid-tier crazy. Top is the Forgotten Ones, whoever they are. Then Andruil, Falon'Din and maybe Elgar'nan....Is it weird that I'm really excited to learn the flaws of the others? I'm having a hard time coming up with how Sylvaise and June would have been crazy. Maybe they were just complicit in the crimes of the others?

 

I am super excited! I really like the dark spin on the elven gods. I am very curious to find out if they were corrupted by the forgotten ones, or if perhaps the idea of being gods went to their heads and sent them down the path. Solas does say something about all groups eventually becoming corrupt, and only individuals were able to walk away from it.

 

Its possible there were some passive gods, so maybe Sylvaise and June fell into that. It seemed like Falon'Din and Mythal were the top dogs, Fen'Harel was the interloper, and everyone else fell into rank. 

 

The forgotten ones are another interesting predicament. We really don't know anything about them. You'd think there would be at least one temple or shrine devoted to them. Surely they had followers, if even the axe-crazy elven gods were able to amass them. /ponder 

[Lorien19]

Yeah, I didn't really like the part where Lavellan turns around, Solas disappears, and then she's like, "Well, job well done guys. Time to return to Skyhold and party!".

Just... no

THIS!!!So much this!

[Sah291]

Okay, this image got me started on another crackpot theory.

 

What if Lavellan is reincarnated Ghilan'nain and she and Fen'Harel had a thing back in the day?  The story goes that Ghilan'nain was a mortal who was lifted to godhood, and her totem is the halla.

 

Then again, male mage Lavellan also has a stag card.

 

I don't know if it necessarily has anything to do with Ghilan'nain, but I do like the idea that Levellan is supposed to represent the "white stag", I like the symbolism of that and explains why Solas thinks she is so rare. 

 

In celtic myth, I believe it was supposed to be taboo to hunt a white stag, because they were supposed to be rare. I wonder that was inspiration for the lore with her killing everything but the halla.

[zambixi]

I think one of his major flaws is that he wants to be seen as himself, but he utterly fails to see others the same way. He's very, very racist and although he pities the people (individuals), he still sees their race as a whole to be utterly wrong in every way possible. Lavellan opens his eyes, in a way, but even then she's only an exception. Meanwhile, an Inquisitor that he does not get along with just proves that everyone is utter trash. He's definitely a very flawed individual. He knows very well that, if the Inquisitor can be a great person that opens his eyes (even those that he does not fall in love with but merely respects) many people can be like that as well. But instead of embracing it, he throws it all away and prefers to cut off any ties with the Inquisition, instead of trying to work for a better future.

 

By the way, I really, really wanted to draw a Solas comic today - but guess what, my graphic tablet pen broke. It was glitchy and buggy already, but now it does not register a single thing anymore.

 

I agree that he is racist and lacks large-scale empathy, but I think in his mind he is working towards a better future. Something was lost and restoring it will make things better. I don't think he actually wants to return things to exactly the way they were before, more that he felt he went too far with whatever he did last time and needs to try to get somewhere in between. While he might miss his friends/the creators, he never talks fondly of them or how they ruled. He doesn't say anything like, "the Dalish would be better off under firm leadership," or anything I'd expect of someone that saw that past system of government as being positive. I think his goals - whatever they are - have more to do with the metaphysical side of things than the governance (for lack of a better word) side of it.

 

I'd really like to see him be kind-of right. Maybe it's violent and horrible, and maybe something goes wrong so it's not all sunshine and rainbows. But the results tilt towards better-than-before. As arrogant and single-minded as he is, he's not dumb. I want to trust in him a little. ^{Wish he trusted in Lavellan to help him gru}

 

Though I do have a hard time thinking of how they would write a world where the Veil is gone without ending the series. Presumably the dwarves would have magic? The elves might be immortal? It'd be a bit weird.

 

 

I never understood why the Inquisitor is just like "Yup, guess he's gone, eh?" at the end of the game. And everyone else - even Cole - is just fine with going back to Skyhold. They literally do not care in the slightest that the elven apostate that was so interesting for them earlier simply "Poofed!" himself away. And then, at the end of it all, you have the option to tell Leliana that he never even said goodbye. Well...no one tried to stop him from walking away in the first place...

 

Yeah, I didn't really like the part where Lavellan turns around, Solas disappears, and then she's like, "Well, job well done guys.  Time to return to Skyhold and party!".

 

Just... no 

 

I have to headcanon that she thought he was just taking some time alone and would come back. Like when he leaves following the companion quest but the cutscene of his return happens as soon as you go back to Skyhold. She knows he likes to deal with all his feels alone, and they're not technically together so there's only so much she can/should do.

 

Still, it's a bit BS that she's not even like "hey let me check to see if Solas is here." Or she doesn't ask why he sounds so final in the "what we had was real," when he promised her that "everything would be made clear" about the two of them and it is not. Maybe that's not everyone's number one concern after surviving the end of the world, but it was a bit bizarre that she was so seemingly nonchalant about him being so upset and talking in a way that implied he was about to peace out.

[scintilla]

I never understood why the Inquisitor is just like "Yup, guess he's gone, eh?" at the end of the game. And everyone else - even Cole - is just fine with going back to Skyhold. They literally do not care in the slightest that the elven apostate that was so interesting for them earlier simply "Poofed!" himself away. And then, at the end of it all, you have the option to tell Leliana that he never even said goodbye. Well...no one tried to stop him from walking away in the first place...

 

Yeah, I didn't really like the part where Lavellan turns around, Solas disappears, and then she's like, "Well, job well done guys.  Time to return to Skyhold and party!".

 

Just... no 

 

This made the ending so funny to me. It's like my Lavellan is going, "thank god that loser is finally gone." She wasn't even bothered. I was giggling through a significant part of the epilogue.

 

It's kind of poor writing though, yeah. His disappearance should have had more acknowledgment than it did.

[Mims]

There are quite a few parts about the ending that are a bit clunky, unfortunately. If it wasn't for the Solas stinger at the end, I have a feeling the game's ending would have been something of a let down. 

 

I wish, if anything, bioware would handle the ending either at the beginning of production or at the middle point. Maybe it is impossible due to how they handle plot flags, but bioware always tends to 'rush' the end portions. DA:O and ME2 are the only pair that had really solid endings. 

[nightwolf667]

I think one of his major flaws is that he wants to be seen as himself, but he utterly fails to see others the same way. He's very, very racist and although he pities the people (individuals), he still sees their race as a whole to be utterly wrong in every way possible. Lavellan opens his eyes, in a way, but even then she's only an exception. Meanwhile, an Inquisitor that he does not get along with just proves that everyone is utter trash. He's definitely a very flawed individual. He knows very well that, if the Inquisitor can be a great person that opens his eyes (even those that he does not fall in love with but merely respects) many people can be like that as well. But instead of embracing it, he throws it all away and prefers to cut off any ties with the Inquisition, instead of trying to work for a better future.

 

By the way, I really, really wanted to draw a Solas comic today - but guess what, my graphic tablet pen broke. It was glitchy and buggy already, but now it does not register a single thing anymore.

 

Oh definitely. The racism and the condescension are huge parts of his character. He's so busy trying to tell the other companions how they should live that he doesn't stop to ask why they live the way they do. Half the time I feel like he just wants to release the Elven gods is because he wants to go back to a time when people appreciated him. Like any good dreamer, he's good at big ideas (concepts, dreams) but terrible when it comes to actually executing them (hard work, slow burn, little reward). He has so much to offer and is frustrated when no one listens to him, but he never asks why. He doesn't try to understand. This nightmare is going to be over quickly, right? It all went to plan until that pesky Lavellan gave him feelings and he realized that they were real. Oh, Solas... you really are blind in that way only mostly intelligent people can be.

 

He judges whole cultures so quickly. He never tries to understand Sera, even though she's the one he most wants to change. In the end, he sort of just gives up on her. Everything he takes Vivienne to task for are flaws that he himself shares and hasn't gotten over yet. He can be so hypocritical. Like his conversation with Blackwall where he's upset that Blackwall misrepresented himself and lied. I don't know whether it's because Blackwall fooled him or failed him, but either way it's telling. I think there's a place for him in this world if he wants it, he could certainly find it if he wanted. It's not what he wants though.

 

That's our Solas though. Throwing the baby out with the bath water. If it's not right, burn the whole thing down.

 

I think on one level he's right. Maybe the wonder in the world is gone, but is it really worth all the people it would hurt to get it back?