Don't really think so, it isn't what Bioware said. They said it was in character for her to call a trans this because she is an arsehole.
Im glad they had the courage to say that, and hope they stick to their guns. It will be a sad, sad world when all we have are flawless, squeaky clean, "perfect" characters.
Nope. That's totally not what was happening. Hasn't anyone ever played naming people in a crowd? That's all Sera was doing.
I would think Bioware would be the first to say it was aimed at someone else, if that was the case.
Question.
What is to say that Solas game Corypheus the orb recently? Do we know that Solas didnt give him the orb many years ago, and that the orb was used to try to open the gates to the Golden City?
I actually have been contemplating the same thing. No amount of blood magic has been able to get anyone else physically into the Fade. So far the only people to walk it are the Inquisitor and the Magisters of old. I would not be surprised in the least that this orb was used then as well.
One last thing before work, because some of the Solas/Sera antagonism is being used to support his characterisation as prideful, arrogant, or even "racist":
What drives him insane about Sara is not the fact that she's not "elfy" enough. It's that she's so willfully resistant to having her worldview challenged. Her temperament is the precise opposite of all that he hopes for from his People: the openness, the curiousity, the desire to understand. Instead, because of her particular background, every time she's faced with anything that might plant a seed of doubt in her mind, she (metaphorically) plugs her ears and sings as loudly as she can.
He makes her head hurt. She rejects him over and over, and he still doesn't give up trying to reach her.
This is the Solas we know. Stubbornly clinging to a threadbare hope that there's something salvageable in the epic mess he's created. He is broken. He is tired. But still, he will not give up without a fight. Give the guy credit where it's due.
Solas is supremely unaccepting with Sera. He can't take that she doesn't want to be what he thinks she should be. And yes, that's racism. He has very definite ideas about what the elves ought to be - and maybe they're noble ideas about open mindedness and curiosity - but that doesn't excuse his need to push the definition on someone who has made different choices about their life. There shouldn't have been more than one banter where Sera says she doesn't want to change. That should have been the end of the discussion. She has the right to that choice no matter what Solas thinks she should be. Solas isn't saving her. He's trying to mold her into something she isn't because that's what he thinks she should be. To reiterate: He's trying to push his hopes for his race on another sentient being who has thoughts and feelings of their own. Sera has every right to feel and act the way she does. No one has to like it but she has every right.
It is arrogant of him to do this. To persistently insist that he knows better than Sera what her life should be like.
Absolutely, though he's not nearly the disaster on wheels he was in his youth. Pride may have turned back into Wisdom, but at the end of the game (-in a twist that makes even less sense in a Solavellan playthrough than with others-) he seems to finally abandon even the ghost of his long-held hope that the People could find a path on their own, and that turning back the clock is the only way to undo what he's done.
It's an admission of defeat, and the inverse of his original mistake. The burden of choice is still his to bear, but he's given up. Deeply flawed thinking, in my opinon.
So his only flaw is that he gives up on present? Not that he gave Corypheus the orb - this is after he made his first big mistake and supposedly learned all about how wrong his pride was - or that his response to Corypheus actually using the orb amounts to "I didn't think some Tevinter scrub could use it?" And that's why he handed an extremely powerful artifact to a blighted madman with a god complex?
He's proud, he's impatient, and he lacks empathy on a large scale (see how he cares about individuals but sees every current culture as terrible). And yes, he's racist. That doesn't make him a bad character. A character with no flaws is uninteresting.
I found her amusing at times but she became grating after a while...It's pretty much the first time I find a character so...Unappealing,I had high expectations for her and was kind disappointed by her character development or lack thereof. Vivienne at least is articulate and presents reasonable arguments even though she sometimes refuses to see things from a different perspective than her own,which is why I like her as a character even if I don't always agree with her views.
Anyway back to Solas! 
Im glad they had the courage to say that, and hope they stick to their guns. It will be a sad, sad world when all we have are flawless, squeaky clean, "perfect" characters.
I think there is a line that got crossed. And is sad because Bioware and Inquisition are very good on gender issues. The game has Krem and is very inclusive. But that line... should be cut off the game. Saying "oh that is how she talks" when she doesn't go that offensive level with anything else is not a good excuse. She isn't calling dwarfs some offensive midget term or Dorian some offensive term. I'm not a trans but I saw trans people that hated it. Is well beyond what is acceptable.
I would think Bioware would be the first to say it was aimed at someone else, if that was the case.
I'm not saying you're lying, but you'd think the forums and twitter would have blown up over it. People are way too sensitive over such things. And even sensitive stuff, I've not seen them apologize for it when it did. 
I'm not saying you're lying, but you'd think the forums and twitter would have blown up over it. People are way too sensitive over such things. And even sensitive stuff, I've not seen them apologize for it when it did.
They did on the 19 and 20th after game launch. Then the trans who complained was banned. Mods have been deleting threads about it ever since.
We should go back to Solas fangirling before they delete this thread too O.o
I think there is a line that got crossed. And is sad because Bioware and Inquisition are very good on gender issues. The game has Krem and is very inclusive. But that line... should be cut off the game. Saying "oh that is how she talks" when she doesn't go that offensive level with anything else is not a good excuse. She isn't calling dwarfs some offensive midget term or Dorian some offensive term. I'm not a trans but I saw trans people that hated it. Is well beyond what is acceptable.
Should they cut out Varric's chest hair because people find it offensive? It's a rpg, not everyone is going to agree or be "politically correct". Having offensive things about people or things is a good thing. It brings realism to a game and immersion.
They did on the 19 and 20th after game launch. Then the trans who complained was banned. Mods have been deleting threads about it ever since.
We should go back to Solas fangirling before they delete this thread too O.o
Lol. Good Idea. I've run though almost all the smutty fanfiction with Solas that I could. I'm starting to see the point you guys were making about him being ofc.
Gods, getting Solas' voice is really hard.
Try writing him as Mage Elf Spok.
Finally finished the game with a Dalish Inquisitor and I've been convinced that Solas is one of the best/most interesting DA companions so far. Such good writing. ;_;
In a way, I think he's the Morrigan of DA:I (even though Morrigan herself is actually in the game too) - mysterious motivations, hard to read, potentially either a friend or enemy, kind of angsty but not that interested in letting the protagonist "fix" them, getting an ambiguous unfinished ending. They're both compelling characters because they're frustrating, as much as that might make us hate Bioware
Also I have to agree that the elven protagonist gets smacked around by the story even more than the Inquisitor is by default. While everyone else in the Inquisition is worrying that the Maker might not care about them, at least those are just worries. Poor Lavellan actually meets two of their gods in person, and one straight-up says "yeah I know you guys were praying to me for years and I'm still not going to help you out" while the other accidentally almost causes the end of the world and also potentially breaks their heart. That's rough.
Finally finished the game with a Dalish Inquisitor and I've been convinced that Solas is one of the best/most interesting DA companions so far. Such good writing. ;_;
In a way, I think he's the Morrigan of DA:I (even though Morrigan herself is actually in the game too) - mysterious motivations, hard to read, potentially either a friend or enemy, kind of angsty but not that interested in letting the protagonist "fix" them, getting an ambiguous unfinished ending. They're both compelling characters because they're frustrating, as much as that might make us hate Bioware
Also I have to agree that the elven protagonist gets smacked around by the story even more than the Inquisitor is by default. While everyone else in the Inquisition is worrying that the Maker might not care about them, at least those are just worries. Poor Lavellan actually meets two of their gods in person, and one straight-up says "yeah I know you guys were praying to me for years and I'm still not going to help you out" while the other accidentally almost causes the end of the world and also potentially breaks their heart. That's rough.
Welcome to the Solas Recovery Wing!!
They did on the 19 and 20th after game launch. Then the trans who complained was banned. Mods have been deleting threads about it ever since.
We should go back to Solas fangirling before they delete this thread too O.o
Solas is supremely unaccepting with Sera. He can't take that she doesn't want to be what he thinks she should be. And yes, that's racism. He has very definite ideas about what the elves ought to be - and maybe they're noble ideas about open mindedness and curiosity - but that doesn't excuse his need to push the definition on someone who has made different choices about their life. There shouldn't have been more than one banter where Sera says she doesn't want to change. That should have been the end of the discussion. She has the right to that choice no matter what Solas thinks she should be. Solas isn't saving her. He's trying to mold her into something she isn't because that's what he thinks she should be. To reiterate: He's trying to push his hopes for his race on another sentient being who has thoughts and feelings of their own. Sera has every right to feel and act the way she does. No one has to like it but she has every right.
It is arrogant of him to do this. To persistently insist that he knows better than Sera what her life should be like.
So his only flaw is that he gives up on present? Not that he gave Corypheus the orb - this is after he made his first big mistake and supposedly learned all about how wrong his pride was - or that his response to Corypheus actually using the orb amounts to "I didn't think some Tevinter scrub could use it?" And that's why he handed an extremely powerful artifact to a blighted madman with a god complex?
He's proud, he's impatient, and he lacks empathy on a large scale (see how he cares about individuals but sees every current culture as terrible).
That may be so,Solas has his own vision of what elves should be according to what elves used to be.However there are moments where he rethinks his stance,the balcony scene being a good example.The main reason I raised an eyebrow at Sera's interactions with Solas,wasn't the fact that she refused to accept his views about elves,but the way she did it.
Combined with her reaction to a Lavellan who holds to their beliefs and traditions she seems rather hypocritical and no better than Solas in that matter.Worse thing being that unlike Solas, she utterly refuses to re-evaluate her stance and reconsider her views even when new evidence appears, if Lavellan disagrees with her,they're just stupid.
Worth noting that I don't hate Sera and I disapprove of people who aggressively hate her and are rude to her fans,I think she can be hilarious at times even though I don't always appreciate her humour,(Dorian's on the other hand )but I'm not impressed either.
Finally finished the game with a Dalish Inquisitor and I've been convinced that Solas is one of the best/most interesting DA companions so far. Such good writing. ;_;
In a way, I think he's the Morrigan of DA:I (even though Morrigan herself is actually in the game too) - mysterious motivations, hard to read, potentially either a friend or enemy, kind of angsty but not that interested in letting the protagonist "fix" them, getting an ambiguous unfinished ending. They're both compelling characters because they're frustrating, as much as that might make us hate Bioware
Also I have to agree that the elven protagonist gets smacked around by the story even more than the Inquisitor is by default. While everyone else in the Inquisition is worrying that the Maker might not care about them, at least those are just worries. Poor Lavellan actually meets two of their gods in person, and one straight-up says "yeah I know you guys were praying to me for years and I'm still not going to help you out" while the other accidentally almost causes the end of the world and also potentially breaks their heart. That's rough.
Needles to mention that Morrigan was my favourite character in Origins.I always seem to like the mysterious ones.
This could include Alistair as well, since he left my elf mage 
That may be so,Solas has his own vision of what elves should be according to what elves used to be.However there are moments where he rethinks his stance,the balcony scene being a good example.The main reason I raised an eyebrow at Sera's interactions with Solas,wasn't the fact that she refused to accept his views about elves,but the way she did it.
Combined with her reaction to a Lavellan who holds to their beliefs and traditions she seems rather hypocritical and no better than Solas in that matter.Worse thing being that unlike Solas, she utterly refuses to re-evaluate her stance and reconsider her views even when new evidence appears, if Lavellan disagrees with her,their just stupid.
Worth noting that I don't hate Sera and I disapprove of people who aggressively hate her and are ride to her fans,I think she can be hilarious at times even though I don't always appreciate her humour.(Dorian's on the other hand
but I'm not impressed either.
I never said that Sera wasn't racist herself. She is. I'm not defending Sera's flaws - I'm saying she has a right to choose how she lives and Solas has no right to try to tell her she's wrong. Once she said 'no, I don't want to' there should have been no more discussion.
Solas does question if he's been fair to the Dalish once or twice. He never actually changes his opinion about them. Not even for a Lavellan he's in love with. The balcony scene is his "racist compliment" scene - the one where he tells a non-romanced Inquisitor that he likes that they're so much different from the rest of their race.
Should they cut out Varric's chest hair because people find it offensive? It's a rpg, not everyone is going to agree or be "politically correct". Having offensive things about people or things is a good thing. It brings realism to a game and immersion.
False equivalence much? People do not struggle under systematic oppression over chest hair. People do struggle under systematic oppression due to their sex and/or gender every day in real life.
I'm not touching the argument about whether or not Sera's comments should be removed, but the slippery slope argument gets under my skin a little bit. Avoiding transphobic/sexist/racist/etc. comments in video games isn't going to suddenly lead to games with flawless characters. There are plenty of flaws left over, and there are plenty of ways to talk about those issues without doing so in a way that is hurtful for others.
About the Sera/Solas debacle.I’m actually a big fan of both characters. I think they both have prejudices. Sera we have to take into account the life she led, I found an actual great insight into her character on tumblr: here.I think the way Solas treats her is wrong, and for her he’s just one more elf that will use her race to hurt her and tell her that she is all wrong. I’m hesitant to go around calling racism to the race that is having the worst part of the deal, but for all his preaching against romanticizing the past I think Solas is elitist about what it means to be elven. There are a lot of things that run into this, and to some extent I can understand, but the way he calls Lavellan real (and by extension, the others unreal) tells me that he has an idea of how they should act, and that he thinks very lowly of how they are today.
Thanks for sharing this! I'm out of likes, but I would like it if I could! I've had a lot of trouble coming to grips with Sera's character but that analysis made a lot of sense (even if I think the writer's short analysis of Solas is a bit harsh). It's a shame really. If Solas had been a bit gentler and Sera a bit more trusting he probably could have shared some of the ancient elven culture with her and she could have given him insight into contemporary elves. They would have both been better off for it but c'est la vie.
Solas is supremely unaccepting with Sera. He can't take that she doesn't want to be what he thinks she should be. And yes, that's racism. He has very definite ideas about what the elves ought to be - and maybe they're noble ideas about open mindedness and curiosity - but that doesn't excuse his need to push the definition on someone who has made different choices about their life. There shouldn't have been more than one banter where Sera says she doesn't want to change. That should have been the end of the discussion. She has the right to that choice no matter what Solas thinks she should be. Solas isn't saving her. He's trying to mold her into something she isn't because that's what he thinks she should be. To reiterate: He's trying to push his hopes for his race on another sentient being who has thoughts and feelings of their own. Sera has every right to feel and act the way she does. No one has to like it but she has every right.
It is arrogant of him to do this. To persistently insist that he knows better than Sera what her life should be like.
So his only flaw is that he gives up on present? Not that he gave Corypheus the orb - this is after he made his first big mistake and supposedly learned all about how wrong his pride was - or that his response to Corypheus actually using the orb amounts to "I didn't think some Tevinter scrub could use it?" And that's why he handed an extremely powerful artifact to a blighted madman with a god complex?
He's proud, he's impatient, he's racist, and he lacks empathy on a large scale (see how he cares about individuals but sees every current culture as terrible). Let me copy this from another post:
He does this to every race. Even to elves.
Oof. It's going to be tough to find common ground here, I can tell. Look. Every current culture is terrible. it may be a matter of degree (Ferelden doesn't sport Tevinter-style slavery or Qunari mind police) but mage rebellions and alienages are pretty strong evidence of social breakdown, and the Dalish are barely a savage shadow of what Elves once were.
I get where you're coming from with Sera, I really do. But the core of her character is problematic. She defines a huge part of her self - who she is- as a kneejerk reaction to external expectations. Not!Elf. You can fault Solas for pushing her too hard toward a particular concept of what he believes elves share and what they "should" be, but- as their banter occasionally elicits- he's not entirely wrong about her true nature.
Does she have the "right" to define herself as the negative space around a concept? It's not particularly healthy, but sure.
But he also has the right to challenge that.
Whoa, I wasn't trying to suggest that the Solavellan romance inspired the song! Just that Weekes crafted parts that fit painfully well.
As an addendum to the previous post: as you pointed out, the story of King David forms the core of the song, and that provides some tantalizing connections with the larger historical context of Thedas, though they're a bit more of a stretch than the obvious Sollavelan ones. (But still plausible, given that this was apparently the song he leaned on to flesh out Solas struggling with the distant past.)
I have a sketchy theory about Solas and the whole magic/lyrium/fade/Song concept summed up here. It's probably not entirely right, and possibly entirely wrong. In the context of the Maker's song and his -possible- past relationship with Mythal, the King David aspect takes on a new dimension. In some ways, Solas' relationship with the Inquisitor may mirror, somewhat painfully, this earlier connection, his betrayal, and original fall from grace. It's far less clear, though.
Nah... I wasn't saying anything like that.. I was just... I guess... sort of nitpicking stuffs since I'm a big fan of Leonard Cohen's works. Since the bulk of his works predate the current generation of 20s-30s people, a lot of the nuances, themes and subtext of his poems, songs and novels aren't really understood on large scale (most is just lost under the barrage of pop culture drivel. Cohen himself actually commented on the 'problem of popularity' when more people started to know/hear about him in the 2000s and though his works are further spread and enjoyed... most of the meanings aren't appreciated). People just know about Hallelujah (that Shrek song or the song sung by Burke) by Leonard Cohen and that's about it... which is a damn shame if you ask me.
I was especially interested in Hallelujah's influence over the writing of Solas in Dragon Age Inquisition. When I read the article on Patrick Weeks's writing process and how he resonated with the rhythm of the original Hallelujah poem, it was clear to me that Weeks understood, appreciated, and respected the nuances of Cohen's works far more than the usual person/writer. This may sound funny/presumptious to you... but Cohen is a pillar of modern poetry and an icon when it comes to artistic song crafting (his songs are crafted from poems he wrote so the depth of the lyrics and meaning is far superior to anything in the pop/music industry these days). His works (including Hallelujah) have been referenced, copied, imitated and made use of in all sorts of manners by all sorts of writers, poets, and song crafters of all ilks already that it's not rare (or even unusual) for the beauty of his work to just be... appropriated without an ounce of respect or appreciation to the source materials and its depth.
I was.. happy... I guess... to see Hallelujah being appreciated by another person. So... I guess I got a little too excited (sorry...)
Any who, continuing on Weeks and Cohen's influence over the writing of Solas. This is just my personal opinion but the Bioware article reads to me like Weeks was interested and influenced by far more than just Hallelujah. The way he was able to discern the subtle rhythm of the poem makes it feel like he's a fan of Cohen the writer and poet too, not just Cohen the song writer. If that is true, it wouldn't surprise me that Cohen's own themes as a whole influenced the writing of Solas and his romance... not just Hallelujah.
FYI, the central themes of Cohen's works are: religion, politics, depression, and love and sex (He's Jews). These are pretty broad topic and I probably am biased (or thinking wishfully) but don't those sound like the central building blocks of Solas's character: his knowledge of the mythical, his faith/belief, his thinking on politics, his depression (or fixation on doom, gloom and fallen empire as Varric put it) and his passion (his rebellious nature, also his falling for Lavellan despite knowing that it would be no good).
The moment I learned the tight connections between the writing of Solas and Hallelujah's themes and stories, I was reminded of another Cohen's song.
Suzanne which is the song that surpasses Hallelujah on the number of times it has been covered by various artists and singers despite not being very popular with modern music lovers (it predates Hallelujah by a long time). Also... it did not have the mass appeal / relatively easy to digest nature of Hallelujah.
Here are some lines from Suzanne for you to mull about:
"And just when you mean to tell her
That you have no love to give her
Then she gets you on her wavelength
And she lets the river answer
That you've always been her lover
And you want to travel with her
And you want to travel blind
And you know that she will trust you
For you've touched her perfect body with your mind. "
"And Jesus was a sailor
When he walked upon the water
And he spent a long time watching
From his lonely wooden tower
And when he knew for certain
Only drowning men could see him
He said "All men will be sailors then
Until the sea shall free them"
But he himself was broken
Long before the sky would open
Forsaken, almost human
He sank beneath your wisdom like a stone
And you want to travel with him
And you want to travel blind
And you think maybe you'll trust him
For he's touched your perfect body with his mind.
Now Suzanne takes your hand
And she leads you to the river
She is wearing rags and feathers
From Salvation Army counters
And the sun pours down like honey
On our lady of the harbour
And she shows you where to look
Among the garbage and the flowers
There are heroes in the seaweed
There are children in the morning
They are leaning out for love
And they will lean that way forever
While Suzanne holds the mirror
And you want to travel with her
And you want to travel blind
And you know that you can trust her
For she's touched your perfect body with her mind."
Can you hear the echoes of various Solas and Solavellan's elements in those lyrics?
Note: Sorry for any typo/grammar mistake. English ain't my first language.
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