153429 réponses à ce sujet

[Sine_Amore]

I agree with Kalalala that Solas is doing the latter. He tries to maintain an honest relationship with Lavellan (refuses to not lie to her about how he feels) which I think is him assuaging his own guilt as much as he can, but it doesn't change the fact that it is a very serious breach in trust and relates back to the idea he always intended for their relationship to be short term. Which is fine in theory, if he'd been honest about it. I think he was always intending to just disappear at the end and if he hadn't realized just how much he cared about Lavellan, he might have just left her with no explanation. (Instead of a breakup with no explanation and vague promises about how "it will all become clear" i.e. I'm going to leave and end the world you just tried so hard to save, then you'll know why we can't be together.)

 

I'm still not sold on the idea that he does intend to end their world. People have all these doom'saying ideas and I just don't see it. It's not all or nothing. There can be some middle ground. Solas does seem to see that there are things worth saving along with things worth changing. But perhaps, again, it's just my boundless optimism. However, I do not think that things will be all sunshine and daises.

[kalasaurus]

To be fair, I feel like he doesn't want to unduly distract her from leading the Inquisition as well. Yes, it's very wrong of him to not allow her any leeway in this matter, but at that moment, stopping Coryphespit is the top priority. He does say he'll talk with your more AFTER that is taken care of.

 

Eh, I don't know.  I feel that lying about your identity to someone you're romantically involved with is... ethically questionable, at best.  I can understand him hiding it from someone he doesn't trust, and to an extent, even someone he's just friends with.  But, once you're in a romantic (and potentially sexual) relationship with someone, honesty is key.  Yes, his circumstances are rather extraordinary, but it's still lying and pretending to be something else.  His personality may not be different, but would Lavellan had truly consented to a relationship had she known the truth?  Perhaps, but she was never given the chance.  And now she's left hanging with no real answers as to why he broke up and left.

 

I hope that she gets those answers, at least.

[Hedinve]

My point was to point out that lying is bad no matter what becomes a little rigid. To me, his lies enables you to get to know him without the cultural baggage of the fenharel concept.

[vertigomez]

Lavellan: Why didn't you tell me you were Fen'Harel!?!?
Solas: ...You never asked?
 
Maybe Solas has a thing or two in common with Alistair XD

"I just wanted you to like me.. for me."

[LapCat]

Hey I'm divided about Sera. I really like her mischievious side and love how she questions authority and dogma. She and Solas have a lot more in common than either would admit.

But some of her writing turns me cold for her, with the offensiveness of it, so I pretend it's not in the game and then I have more fun with her. She isn't perfect by any means but she can make Lavellan laugh after having her heart ripped out so she is a BFF.

 

I am really conflicted about Sera too. I really liked her joy for life and her desire to stay grounded in the idea that what matters most is protecting those who need protecting. But damn, sometimes I wanted the option to shake her when she was talking about how everything wasn't really and that it was all bullshit. I get that it was a coping mechanism, but she seemed edging out of reality. She also pointed an arrow at me after the well of sorrows and Mythalla was not cool with that.

 

BTW. I squealled with joy when the temple of Mythal appeared and I had the option to drink and bind my Levellan to Mythal. I had name her Mythalla because in my head-canon her mother was devote and named her after the great protector. Mythalla always admired female figures like Mythal and Andraste so it was damn near perfect for my character.

[Sine_Amore]

Eh, I don't know.  I feel that lying about your identity to someone you're romantically involved with is... ethically questionable, at best.  I can understand him hiding it from someone he doesn't trust, and to an extent, even someone he's just friends with.  But, once you're in a romantic (and potentially sexual) relationship with someone, honestly is key.  Yes, his circumstances are rather extraordinary, but it's still lying and pretending to be something else.  His personality may not be different, but would Lavellan had truly consented to a relationship had she known the truth?  Perhaps, but she was never given the chance.  And now she's left hanging with no real answers as to why he broke up and left.

 

I hope that she gets those answers, at least.

That's the thing: I don't see them as sexually involved at all. It's still more on the emotional level, which is perfectly fine with me. Take things slow.

 

So it's NOT that big of a deal... yet.

 

But I didn't spew my entire life story, family history, or character flaws to my current husband while we were making out on the couch years ago. We didn't get into that until much later. We're still figuring things out. It's a long and ongoing process. *shrugs*

[Amriah]

"I just wanted you to like me.. for me."

 

First of all how dare you.

Second, I'm not crying you're crying.

[kalasaurus]

That's the thing: I don't see them as sexually involved at all. It's still more on the emotional level, which is perfectly fine with me. Take things slow.

 

So it's NOT that big of a deal... yet.

 

But I didn't spew my entire life story, family history, or character flaws to my current husband while we were making out on the couch years ago. We didn't get into that until much later. We're still figuring things out. It's a long and ongoing process. *shrugs*

 

But your husband still knew who you were, correct?  It's not as though you assumed a different identity when you met.  It isn't the same thing.

[Illyria]

O.o Kalalala, I'm getting the impression Solas is the only one you can flirt with without sounding like a creep. I'm still reeling from flirting with Cullen. "Hello person I met five minutes ago, drop your breeches now!!!"

 

Clearly they're taking romance advice from a Thane-romancing Shepard.

 

Thane: And that's how I met my dead wife.

Shepard: Uh-huh.  We'll bang, okay?

[Hedinve]

My HC includes sex and I still don't mind. Of course I would have preferred him telling her somehow, I just can't separate the lying from the cultural context. 2 milliennia old ideas dies hard. Really hard! They are surprisingly resilient.

[kalasaurus]

Clearly they're taking romance advice from a Thane-romancing Shepard.

 

Thane: And that's how I met my dead wife.

Shepard: Uh-huh.  We'll bang, okay?

 

That was a really badly-timed flirt.

 

Though, the paraphrased "I want you, Thane" didn't pan out that way in the actual dialogue.  Shepard just says that she's there for him if he ever needs someone to talk to.

[Sine_Amore]

"I just wanted you to like me.. for me."

This. Just this.

 

I still can't wrap my head around living openly with the sort of reputation Solas has.

 

I don't tell people that my parents are felons because then they judge me based on things that don't matter. They judge my mother. The past is the past. Not exactly the same thing, but the comparison holds. Even if he had once been that way or done those things, that doesn't mean he can't have changed. Just because my mother made some mistakes in her youth, doesn't mean that's who she is forever. *shrugs*

[Sine_Amore]

But your husband still knew who you were, correct?  It's not as though you assumed a different identity when you met.  It isn't the same thing.

I don't believe Solas does assume a different identity. His name doesn't make him someone else. It doesn't change his personality, his morals, ethics, et cetera.

 

Edit: Apologies for the double post.

Modifié par Sine_Amore, 14 décembre 2014 - 04:45 .

[caridounette]

Lets be honest here. The Dread Wolf is depicted as the boogie man in the stories told by the Dalish.  He's the devil, evil and corrupt.  Lavellan Mage is the Keeper's First so she would know all those stories and the history.  Warrior and Rogue might know a little less stories and lore, but around the campfire and the story teller she would have been told.

 

Realistically only a few things would have happened. Especially depending on when Solas told her, before the romance, after, or were they friends.

 

Lavellan is scared and hates Solas

Lavellan is scared but thinks having a god as a lover will bring her power.

Lavellan is accepting of Solas.

 

Most situations would end up badly for either Solas or Lavellan.

 

We accept Solas because he's a video game character, you can't think of Lavellan with the same attitude. 

 

Explaining he is Fenharel seems far fetched to me. Its not something Id expect as a player, unless drinking from the Well puts the Inquisitor on the path. But saying he is an ancient elf who woke up would be a not so big lie (by omission).

 

 

As far as RP goes, im playing hunter Lavellan, so she has no reason not to believe the Tales. Or to be able to read things in the Temple. Solas is her link to the past and without drinking the Well, she could be pretty happy with the Old Elvhen explanation. and Solas would have a chance to live this part of his life without his 'god burden'. They could make small changes to the world together instead of the 'big plan, big consequences' path Solas seems to be on.

 

Anyway, thats all if we ever get a chance for closure. 

[nightwolf667]

I'm still not sold on the idea that he does intend to end their world. People have all these doom'saying ideas and I just don't see it. It's not all or nothing. There can be some middle ground. Solas does seem to see that there are things worth saving along with things worth changing. But perhaps, again, it's just my boundless optimism. However, I do not think that things will be all sunshine and daises.

 

Well, to be fair, he does want to release the guy who needed to be worshiped so badly that he murdered all those who wouldn't submit. Enough to fill oceans with blood and that came straight from Solas. That sounds pretty bad to me. (Falon'din for main villain in DA4!) For all their wonders, Solas is willing to admit the Elven gods committed countless atrocities against their own people. Those are the guys he wants to let out and unlike Flemeth, he doesn't seem to want to destroy them. (I can only hope he does and tied to Flemeth maybe now he will.) I won't go so far as to put them on Wheel of Time Forsaken levels as the legends of their depravities have not survived through the ages despite being Sealed Evil in a Can, but there's a comparison to be made there.

 

Ancient magitech society. Created the Bore. (Got rid of the Fade). Tunneled into the Dark One's Prison. (Possibly created the Darkspawn) Dark One occasionally releases hordes of monsters to terrorize the countryside. Destroyed magic and the world as they knew it. Etc.

 

I'm just not sure if "the sky opening wide and everyone being like they were" is a good thing. When those grumps wake up they're going to want things to go back to the way they were and with the Veil down they may have the power to do it. So, what exactly does that mean for everyone currently living in Thedas?

 

I think Solas believes he's atoning for a mistake. I believe he thinks it's the right thing to do. I don't agree the world he wants to create will be better for anyone, not even him. (Not even for the surviving Ancient elves.)

[kalasaurus]

I don't believe Solas does assume a different identity. His name doesn't make him someone else. It doesn't change his personality, his morals, ethics, et cetera.

 

He pretends to be an apostate elf who grew up in a village to the North.  Maybe what he says is the truth-- to an extent.

 

He's still lying about his identity by omission, because Lavellan would never assume the truth.

 

Blackwall is the same.  His personality, morals, ethics are all the same as he presents himself, but he's still pretending to be something else.  He outright lies about his identity, while Solas just makes half-truths to create a new identity.

[amranthe]

Lying by omission is still lying in my book.

 

It's not lying in my book. "Lying by omission" is such a misnomer it angers me. There are plenty of times when not telling the whole truth is completely justified and also the best course of action... which honestly I think is Solas's case, as many have pointed out. If he just came up and told the whole truth, there's no way that would have gone well. People would be too focused on dealing with Solas/Fen'harel instead of dealing with the breach.

 

I guess it all depends if you consider lying by omission a lie ? You dont need to lie to decieve.

 

He does put everyone's life at risk, and specially Quizzy, by not telling the truth about things like Cory, the Well, etc.

 

How did he put anyone's life at risk any more than it already was? The breach would still be there, whether he told the truth or not. They would still have to stop Cory from getting the Well, whether he told the truth about what it was or not. Nothing would change other than maybe your choice to drink/not drink, but he still tries his best to dissuade you. 

 

He could have told the truth in a different way, instead of keeping it all to himself.   [snip]

 

He did tell the truth in a different way. He told the truth about everything other than how he came by the knowledge.

 

To be fair, that's different.  Lying about Santa and lying (by omission) about your very identity to someone you love aren't really the same.

 

And in that comparison, it's as though Solas views Lavellan as a child who can't handle the truth/needs to believe a lie in order to be happy.

 

As far as Solas viewing Lavellan as a child: I'm not sure I agree. I think that is a part of it, but more from his fear of how you might react. Even so though, he constantly says how you surpass his expectations, how you surprise him. I don't think he would believe you incapable of understanding. I think it has more to do with the fact that he has unfinished business. At the point of the breakup, you are just about to face Cory. Assuming you live, Solas is thinking he might have a chance at getting his orb back, and so has to go do whatever it is he had to do. Part of me thinks he was planning to sacrifice himself in some way, due to the way he talks to Flemeth at the end "I should be the one to pay the price". So in this case, he breaks up with you because he wanted to spare you the (possibly worse) heart ache of having him die on you. Either he was going to die, or have to go back to sleep again, either way, kind of terrible for you.

 

 

By the time you get to the Temple of Mythal, Solas got caught in his own game. He knew what the damn Well was about and said nothing.

 

[snip]

 

And the only way you get the notion he feels bad about the way things have been going is if romanced. 

 

I dont think he breaks up because he wants to protect Lavellan from following on his big mission (usually LIs that have that in mind just leave without breaking up, with a letter saying 'Dont follow me' to make sure you'll follow).

 

I think he breaks up because its hurting him to keep lying (by omission) to Lavellan, even if the romance its not hurting her (because Lavellan keeps wanting more until the breakup). He could have kept playing the part to make Quizzy happy and pretend 'big mission, have to go' at the end.

 

He had her in his hands, to a point she would let him take the Vallaslin away (symbol of her identity).But he actually made a conscious choice to stop fooling Lavellan, and lose his precious 'sidebenefit', because it was wrong. So maybe he is capable of changing his ways ?

 

 

Is it great for our Lavellan? Not really. But it is a damn good story

 

I don't think he only feels bad if romanced. In one of my pt I did not romance him, but still had max approval, and I could tell at the end he still felt terrible. Mostly because all of his scenes are nearly identical minus the smooches. He even says at the end "No matter what happens, I want you to know I respect you". Definitely some huge guilt there that he had to play everyone.

 

Re: vallaslin: The way I play my Lavellan, it is in no way a symbol of her identity. You can play it that way, sure, then don't have him remove it. But I see it as a relic of something that they don't understand, and also after seeing the way god-worship can go so wrong, probably doesn't really want anything more to do with it. I guess my point is: if you think your vallaslin is your identity and Solas is wrong to remove it, there's an option for you to say no. I don't understand getting miffed about him removing it and leaving, like "he tricked me!" when he still told you the truth and it was your decision to let him remove it.

[caridounette]

Well, to be fair, he does want to release the guy who needed to be worshiped so badly that he murdered all those who wouldn't submit. Enough to fill oceans with blood and that came straight from Solas. That sounds pretty bad to me. (Falon'din for main villain in DA4!) For all their wonders, Solas is willing to admit the Elven gods committed countless atrocities against their own people. Those are the guys he wants to let out and unlike Flemeth, he doesn't seem to want to destroy them. (I can only hope he does and tied to Flemeth maybe now he will.) I won't go so far as to put them on Wheel of Time Forsaken levels as the legends of their depravities have not survived through the ages despite being Sealed Evil in a Can, but there's a comparison to be made there.

 

Ancient magitech society. Created the Bore. (Got rid of the Fade). Tunneled into the Dark One's Prison. (Possibly created the Darkspawn) Dark One occasionally releases hordes of monsters to terrorize the countryside. Destroyed magic and the world as they knew it. Etc.

 

I'm just not sure if "the sky opening wide and everyone being like they were" is a good thing. When those grumps wake up they're going to want things to go back to the way they were and with the Veil down they may have the power to do it. So, what exactly does that mean for everyone currently living in Thedas?

 

I think Solas believes he's atoning for a mistake. I believe he thinks it's the right thing to do. I don't agree the world he wants to create will be better for anyone, not even him. (Not even for the surviving Ancient elves.)

 

Im not sure Solas has a plan that simple and 'stupid' ?

 

I mean he usually has a good strategic mind and wants some sort of free-will  for people.

 

 

Now will he be turned into a raving Big Bad lets-end-the-world-as-we-know-it type? I guess it all depends on Bioware.

[Ajna]

I'm still not sold on the idea that he does intend to end their world. People have all these doom'saying ideas and I just don't see it. It's not all or nothing. There can be some middle ground. Solas does seem to see that there are things worth saving along with things worth changing. But perhaps, again, it's just my boundless optimism. However, I do not think that things will be all sunshine and daises.

Welcome to the optimism gang!  They NEED us!

[Tielis]

I'm still wondering if Solas has decided play elven creator Pokemon because he thinks that *himself* becoming their prison for eternity would be better than an eluvian that can be corrupted.

 

Yeah, that's an idea that can't ever go wrong.      My thoughts drift back to Tal Rasha in Diablo 2.

[Amriah]

Well, to be fair, he does want to release the guy who needed to be worshiped so badly that he murdered all those who wouldn't submit. Enough to fill oceans with blood and that came straight from Solas. That sounds pretty bad to me. (Falon'din for main villain in DA4!) For all their wonders, Solas is willing to admit the Elven gods committed countless atrocities against their own people. Those are the guys he wants to let out and unlike Flemeth, he doesn't seem to want to destroy them. (I can only hope he does and tied to Flemeth maybe now he will.) I won't go so far as to put them on Wheel of Time Forsaken levels as the legends of their depravities have not survived through the ages despite being Sealed Evil in a Can, but there's a comparison to be made there.

 

Ancient magitech society. Created the Bore. (Got rid of the Fade). Tunneled into the Dark One's Prison. (Possibly created the Darkspawn) Dark One occasionally releases hordes of monsters to terrorize the countryside. Destroyed magic and the world as they knew it. Etc.

 

I'm just not sure if "the sky opening wide and everyone being like they were" is a good thing. When those grumps wake up they're going to want things to go back to the way they were and with the Veil down they may have the power to do it. So, what exactly does that mean for everyone currently living in Thedas?

 

I think Solas believes he's atoning for a mistake. I believe he thinks it's the right thing to do. I don't agree the world he wants to create will be better for anyone, not even him. (Not even for the surviving Ancient elves.)

 

And this is why I'm so conflicted about Solas as a character and a romance and hope we get some DLC stuff sooner rather than later haha. That's a lot of questions for my poor brain to sit on for months and months.

[Illyria]

He pretends to be an apostate elf who grew up in a village to the North.  Maybe what he says is the truth-- to an extent.

 

He's still lying about his identity by omission, because Lavellan would never assume the truth.

 

Blackwall is the same.  His personality, morals, ethics are all the same as he presents himself, but he's still pretending to be something else.  He outright lies about his identity, while Solas just makes half-truths to create a new identity.

 

I believe that the elven gods are just very powerful mages, or possessed by a spirit in some way.  So I don't believe that Solas is lying about his past.  I think he did grow up in a little village to the north and taught himself magic and started using his dreaming abilities before he started travelling.  He just omitted saying when this happened.

[Sine_Amore]

He pretends to be an apostate elf who grew up in a village to the North.  Maybe what he says is the truth-- to an extent.

 

He's still lying about his identity by omission, because Lavellan would never assume the truth.

 

Blackwall is the same.  His personality, morals, ethics are all the same as he presents himself, but he's still pretending to be something else.  He outright lies about his identity, while Solas just makes half-truths to create a new identity.

But he is a mage, making him an apostate. Leliana does find the elven village he mentioned--albeit he probably hadn't lived there for a long time; he very well could have grown up there.

 

I feel like this is another time of needing to agree to disagree. A name does not make a person in my book.

[Sine_Amore]

Welcome to the optimism gang!  They NEED us!

Comrade! *shakes fist*

[Ajna]

I don't believe Solas does assume a different identity. His name doesn't make him someone else. It doesn't change his personality, his morals, ethics, et cetera.

 

Edit: Apologies for the double post.

I also can't help thinking that for we all know, he may well BE Solas *cough*Flemythal*cough*