153429 réponses à ce sujet

[Hedinve]

In a real relationship, yes. To me the whole "god/trickster"-thing makes it a "special circumstances" scenario. If I met someone, say famous and didn't recognize the person and was kept in the dark, I would be PO and probably ask them to leave. Especially of the person was famous for a horrible crime. Solas is a demonized deity in Thedas. The game tries to tell us the stories about him is probably false and twisted. Lavellan grew up with these stories. We, the players, have no problem accepting this because it doesn't shatter our worldview. To a Dalish elf this would be like a nun marring the devil. Sort of. And please, I love this debate and even though I don't agree with some of you, I love your input! IOW, I respect your opinions and appreciate your point of view.  

[Ajna]

I am inclined to believe that Solas IS Fen'Harel and not a human merged with the dread wolf's spirit. This is because Flemeth refers to herself as Flemeth even after revealing that she had Mythal's soul in her. In the last scene, Flemeth called Solas Dread Wolf and he responded so naturally as though he really is Dread Wolf. I just get the sense that Flemeth and Mythal do come across as having separate identities in their portrayal in the game, but Solas and Fen'Harel comes off as the same person.

She had to call him that for the reveal though, otherwise, there would be no point, people would be sitting there scratching their heads instead of going "OH MY GOD!" which was the whole point of the scene.

 

They spent the whole game telling us that everything we thought we knew about The Dread Wolf was wrong, they HAD to reveal him.

[Tielis]

But we just had a whole conversation about why he can't give her the whole story, for a number of reasons, none of them having to do with her.

 

I'm not saying that he wants to do this thing or even that he sees what he is doing to her.  It comes about as a result of him believing that he has to keep everything from her.

[Cheerios789]

 

Re: vallaslin: The way I play my Lavellan, it is in no way a symbol of her identity. You can play it that way, sure, then don't have him remove it. But I see it as a relic of something that they don't understand, and also after seeing the way god-worship can go so wrong, probably doesn't really want anything more to do with it. I guess my point is: if you think your vallaslin is your identity and Solas is wrong to remove it, there's an option for you to say no. I don't understand getting miffed about him removing it and leaving, like "he tricked me!" when he still told you the truth and it was your decision to let him remove it.

 

I think what is important is the first reaction that Lavellan will feel after she gets the reveal of who Solas is. 

 

I don't think that Lavellan is going to be bitter and upset 'right now'.  Clearly Solas was hiding things from the get go.  There is no way that anyone could talk to him and not think "well this guy sure has some shady past".  Of course she did not know just what that past was, but she had to know there was more to it.  Which, by the way, is not the same as Blackwell.  Since Blackwell was actively living a complete and utter lie.  He wasn't even a Grey Warden. 

 

Anyways, back to Solas.  If Lavellan went into the relationship she had to know that she wasn't getting the full picture and as time went on and they neared the final showdown, that becomes more clear and more ominous.  Especially after the breakup.  I just don't see Lavellan being bitter and angry at Solas.  Upset, yes.  Heartbroken, of course.  But rage and bitterness ... I'm not so sure.  I think she would feel more regretful that she didn't push for answers when she had the time and I think that she would assume Solas would eventually come back.  It would not be the first time he disappeared after a fight.  The guy handles grief and disappointment quite horribly, as we've seen.

 

Now ... when she finds out who and what he is, then I think the anger and resentment would come into play.  At least at first.  Honestly, I'll be upset if there is even an option on the dialogue wheel for "Huh, oh well.  I still like you.  Now about that Fade tongue."

[caridounette]

It's not lying in my book. "Lying by omission" is such a misnomer it angers me. There are plenty of times when not telling the whole truth is completely justified and also the best course of action... which honestly I think is Solas's case, as many have pointed out. If he just came up and told the whole truth, there's no way that would have gone well. People would be too focused on dealing with Solas/Fen'harel instead of dealing with the breach.

 

 

How did he put anyone's life at risk any more than it already was? The breach would still be there, whether he told the truth or not. They would still have to stop Cory from getting the Well, whether he told the truth about what it was or not. Nothing would change other than maybe your choice to drink/not drink, but he still tries his best to dissuade you. 

 

 

He did tell the truth in a different way. He told the truth about everything other than how he came by the knowledge.

 

 

As far as Solas viewing Lavellan as a child: I'm not sure I agree. I think that is a part of it, but more from his fear of how you might react. Even so though, he constantly says how you surpass his expectations, how you surprise him. I don't think he would believe you incapable of understanding. I think it has more to do with the fact that he has unfinished business. At the point of the breakup, you are just about to face Cory. Assuming you live, Solas is thinking he might have a chance at getting his orb back, and so has to go do whatever it is he had to do. Part of me thinks he was planning to sacrifice himself in some way, due to the way he talks to Flemeth at the end "I should be the one to pay the price". So in this case, he breaks up with you because he wanted to spare you the (possibly worse) heart ache of having him die on you. Either he was going to die, or have to go back to sleep again, either way, kind of terrible for you.

 

 

 

I don't think he only feels bad if romanced. In one of my pt I did not romance him, but still had max approval, and I could tell at the end he still felt terrible. Mostly because all of his scenes are nearly identical minus the smooches. He even says at the end "No matter what happens, I want you to know I respect you". Definitely some huge guilt there that he had to play everyone.

 

Re: vallaslin: The way I play my Lavellan, it is in no way a symbol of her identity. You can play it that way, sure, then don't have him remove it. But I see it as a relic of something that they don't understand, and also after seeing the way god-worship can go so wrong, probably doesn't really want anything more to do with it. I guess my point is: if you think your vallaslin is your identity and Solas is wrong to remove it, there's an option for you to say no. I don't understand getting miffed about him removing it and leaving, like "he tricked me!" when he still told you the truth and it was your decision to let him remove it.

 

 

Im bad with multiquotes sorry >.<

 

When you say How did he put anyone's life at risk any more than it already was?

I think the fact that 'you made it without explanations, so he didnt have to give you any' is very meta. Like its a good excuse afterwards but what if you needed those explanations to make a safe choice and save people's lives? Same could be said of Varric and he enventually came out with it. Cause he might be a storyteller and have his reasons but he understands relationships are built on trust.

 

I agree he doesnt have to tell he is FenHarel, that would be out of the grasp of understanding of people if we keep straight with the universe they live in. 

 

Definitely some huge guilt there that he had to play everyone. 

Youre right, he does feel bad with friendly Inquisitor too.

 

Vallaslin: You can play it that way, sure, then don't have him remove it.

Wether you like or not that part of the Dalish culture, the markings are a symbol of identity. One you be readyy to shed or not.

 

To be honest, I dont have a problem with the removal of the Vallaslin. Solas totally gives the player the choice and accepts Lavellan anyway. so player's agency is respected.

 

Now is the scene written in a way that stires conflicting feelings? Well yes. I dont think it was all a coincidence.  

 

The vallaslin removal (or keeping) is a huge defining moment for your character and it implies a level of trust and intimacy with Solas (trusting that he knows what he is talking about and have a better path to propose for the Elves or trusting that he respects the dalish enough to accept you as you are). Then things escalade and he breaks it off. Instead of returning the trust you showed youve put in him.

 

Why would romanced Lavellan not be angry/confused/disppointed?

[scintilla]

 

We don't know if that is what he intends. I got the impression that they're his "friends" that messed up. He still loves them, but still knows messed up too. He's not walking around with rose-colored glasses like the Dalish are, and he tells you about their flaws. We're all making assumptions about what we feel is is most likely course of action but he could be doing something completely different. We don't really have enough information to know what his plans are for certain, and whether or not those plans will benefit anyone.

 

Yeah, we're trying to put together a puzzle with maaaaybe a quarter of the pieces. It's fun to theorize but we don't have nearly enough to 'know' anything.

 

You know, maybe it's someone else's mistake that draws him back into the story. I could see him showing up in a reaction to something he can't ignore, since he seems to think he's going to be alone forever doing whatever it is he's doing.

[Eivuwan]

She had to call him that for the reveal though, otherwise, there would be no point, people would be sitting there scratching their heads instead of going "OH MY GOD!" which was the whole point of the scene.

 

They spent the whole game telling us that everything we thought we knew about The Dread Wolf was wrong, they HAD to reveal him.

 

We don't know for sure, but Solas seems like Dread Wolf down to the last detail of being a bare-faced elf, being bald, having a body that's a bit different from modern elves, etc. Flemeth and Mythal, in contrast, seems like two separate beings. Also, I know she had to call him Dread Wolf for the reveal, but just everything about the way he responded makes it seem like he really IS the Dread Wolf. I don't have a good concrete argument for this, but that's just the way that his whole character is portrayed that makes me believe this. I guess I'm saying I have a strong feeling that Solas and Dread Wolf are one and the same.

[jellobell]

That's a good point.  Though, I'd argue that it may be a subconscious urge to protect her from something she may not be able to handle, at the very least.

I can't say for sure what all of his conflicting subconscious desires are, however I think that if he truly thought that telling her wouldn't be an utter disaster, then he would do it. He wants to be able to tell her. He tells her as much of the truth as he can reconcile himself to do, and as we've seen, he always tries to edit the truth rather than telling an outright falsehood. And every time she responds with a positive and open mind, he seems to be both grateful and taken aback, as if he's thinking "well if she's openminded about that, then maybe..." but he can never quite bring himself to do it. 

[Hedinve]

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if his plans are something completely different from anything we theorize. It may be something horrifyingly stupid or something good. 

[Tielis]

I think what is important is the first reaction that Lavellan will feel after she gets the reveal of who Solas is. 

 

I don't think that Lavellan is going to be bitter and upset 'right now'.  Clearly Solas was hiding things from the get go.  There is no way that anyone could talk to him and not think "well this guy sure has some shady past".  Of course she did not know just what that past was, but she had to know there was more to it.  Which, by the way, is not the same as Blackwell.  Since Blackwell was actively living a complete and utter lie.  He wasn't even a Grey Warden. 

 

Anyways, back to Solas.  If Lavellan went into the relationship she had to know that she wasn't getting the full picture and as time went on and they neared the final showdown, that becomes more clear and more ominous.  Especially after the breakup.  I just don't see Lavellan being bitter and angry at Solas.  Upset, yes.  Heartbroken, of course.  But rage and bitterness ... I'm not so sure.  I think she would feel more regretful that she didn't push for answers when she had the time and I think that she would assume Solas would eventually come back.  It would not be the first time he disappeared after a fight.  The guy handles grief and disappointment quite horribly, as we've seen.

 

Now ... when she finds out who and what he is, then I think the anger and resentment would come into play.  At least at first.  Honestly, I'll be upset if there is even an option on the dialogue wheel for "Huh, oh well.  I still like you.  Now about that Fade tongue."

 

Yes, my Lavellan definitely did not take him at his word about him only being some homeless apostate.  As I've said before, she began to realize that he was an ancient elf during the course of the story and then especially after Leliana's reveal about his hometown.  She'd be more angry that he didn't trust her enough to confide in her, but she'd forgive him for freaking out and leaving.  She throws herself into trying to find him so that she can be there for him when his freak out ends.

 

After he reveals his true identity?  Not sure.  I hope BioWare gives us some way to explore this in a variety of ways.

[Addai]

I held off on Solas' early conversations til I had the Arcane Knowledge perk to see if you got anything new with him about the Fade or elven magic. Sadly not.

 

But it reminded me how much I love this whole interaction- which should be brought up anytime someone says Solas hates the Dalish or doesn't care about them.

 

LOL

 

 

 

 

 

It's interesting that he hesitates to call her da'len. He has no trouble calling that harpy Mihris da'len, or shutting her down hard.

[Ajna]

We don't know for sure, but Solas seems like Dread Wolf down to the last detail of being a bare-faced elf, being bald, having a body that's a bit different from modern elves, etc. Flemeth and Mythal, in contrast, seems like two separate beings. Also, I know she had to call him Dread Wolf for the reveal, but just everything about the way he responded makes it seem like he really IS the Dread Wolf. I don't have a good concrete argument for this, but that's just the way that his whole character is portrayed that makes me believe this. I guess I'm saying I have a strong feeling that Solas and Dread Wolf are one and the same.

We don't know anything for sure though do we ..as the chairperson of Team Optimistic I'm just throwing all of these maybe's out there, along with blanket forts and pictures of coconuts.

[zambixi]

In a real relationship, yes. To me the whole "god/trickster"-thing makes it a "special circumstances" scenario. If I met someone, say famous and didn't recognize the person and was kept in the dark, I would be PO and probably ask them to leave. Especially of the person was famous for a horrible crime. Solas is a demonized deity in Thedas. The game tries to tell us the stories about him is probably false and twisted. Lavellan grew up with these stories. We, the players, have no problem accepting this because it doesn't shatter our worldview. To a Dalish elf this would be like a nun marring the devil. Sort of. And please, I love this debate and even though I don't agree with some of you, I love your input! IOW, I respect your opinions and appreciate your point of view.  

 

I'm trying to wrap my head around an equivalent figure, because I don't thinkthat someone famous for "a horrible crime" is really equivalent to Solas. He'd be more like someone vilified and revered at the same time? Julian Assange maybe? Not sure. In all seriousness, if I found out that my boyfriend of 2 years was hiding something horrible I'm not sure how I'd react. A lot would depend on what it was and how it was presented. If we got married and he hadn't told me something big I'd be more than a little miffed. I'm trying to think of real-life scenarios to put myself in the moment but it's a bit difficult.

 

Anyway...also keep in mind that Lavellan deals with things on a much larger scale than we do. I don't really think I'd call her a nun either. A good person sure, but not really a nun.

[Aetheria]

Also, I really love the English-accented Inquis voice in those scenes (Alex Wilton Regan?). Her voice gets all sweet and soft, it fits perfectly with the body language. And when Solas is hurt in battle her 'Solas needs help!' scream sounds genuinely panicked. Good stuff.

 

Has anyone tried romancing Solas using the American-accented voice (Sumalee Montano)? I've started a new play through but am trying to avoid Solas at all costs.

Yeah, I was pretty blown away by Alix Wilton Regan's voice work for the Inquisitor all round - even better than Jo Wyatt as Hawke. Which is to say REALLY good. She hits almost every emotional note perfectly, and I can't remember any time where I was thrown out of a scene by sudden hitches in the VA... all too common in some other games.

 

I haven't played with the other voice yet, but someone's made a YouTube playlist of pretty much the entire Solas romance using that voice - also sounds lovely from what little I've watched. Although personally I associate voices pretty strongly with characters, so I'm going to have to make a totally different character from my first to use the other voice, lol.

[scintilla]

We don't know anything for sure though do we ..as the chairperson of Team Optimistic I'm just throwing all of these maybe's out there, along with blanket forts and pictures of coconuts.

 

And we love you for it. 

 

 

http://atomicdoctor....you-so-much-for

[dragondreamer]

It's worse if you remove the vallaslin. She worries that's the reason Solas leaves, according to Cole, and that part broke my heart.

 

If you don't remove it, she worries that Solas left her because she kept them.  I really like that banter because it was accurate to what I thought she would be thinking.  She already knows Solas doesn't care for the Dalish, so that's a little bit of insecurity she has when it comes to their relationship.  Despite what he said, she wondered if he reached a point where he just couldn't accept her anymore.  If he couldn't stand to be with someone with "slave markings".  Whatever they meant in the past, the vallaslin mean another thing in her culture, and are a connection to her family, who are still out there. She told Cole to stop, because if Solas couldn't tell her the truth himself, she didn't want it any other way.

 

Felt bad for Cole.  Mom and Dad are unhappy, and he can't help them.  Must be even worse when Solas disappears.  He knows she's hurting even when she smiles.

[Ajna]

I can't say for sure what all of his conflicting subconscious desires are, however I think that if he truly thought that telling her wouldn't be an utter disaster, then he would do it. He wants to be able to tell her. He tells her as much of the truth as he can reconcile himself to do, and as we've seen, he always tries to edit the truth rather than telling an outright falsehood. And every time she responds with a positive and open mind, he seems to be both grateful and taken aback, as if he's thinking "well if she's openminded about that, then maybe..." but he can never quite bring himself to do it. 

Does this mean you're on Team Optimistic Jello?

[Ajna]

And we love you for it. 

 

 

http://atomicdoctor....you-so-much-for

Awww stahp!  I have no likes left!

[Uirebhiril]

Well, to be fair, he does want to release the guy who needed to be worshiped so badly that he murdered all those who wouldn't submit. Enough to fill oceans with blood and that came straight from Solas. That sounds pretty bad to me. (Falon'din for main villain in DA4!) For all their wonders, Solas is willing to admit the Elven gods committed countless atrocities against their own people. Those are the guys he wants to let out and unlike Flemeth, he doesn't seem to want to destroy them. (I can only hope he does and tied to Flemeth maybe now he will.) I won't go so far as to put them on Wheel of Time Forsaken levels as the legends of their depravities have not survived through the ages despite being Sealed Evil in a Can, but there's a comparison to be made there.

 

 

I think Solas believes he's atoning for a mistake. I believe he thinks it's the right thing to do. I don't agree the world he wants to create will be better for anyone, not even him. (Not even for the surviving Ancient elves.)

 

 

I've seen people say this over and over again, but... am I missing where it was clearly spelled out that Solas intends to release the elf gods or anything like that? I suppose it looks to be the obvious course of action, but it really does seem a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. "Oh, things were bad after I shut people away, I'll let them out so it can go back to whatever it was! Sound plan. Should work." Nah...? It seems to be slamming clues and random ideas into a neat little box, and I'd be a bit disappointed if that's all it was.

[madrar]

I feel like Solas learned a lesson from his mistake with Arlathan (whatever that was) but it may not have necessarily been the lesson he needed to learn? Another poster here (madrar?) called it a painful lack of foresight. For someone so intelligent and open minded, he has some impressive blind spots. That's kind of how I see pretty much the entire present for him? His culture was terrible too, he acknowledges this, but he can see the virtues in it. He can't see any virtues in the present for all that he's picked out all of its flaws. I think he's maybe not trying as hard as he could because there's a longing for his time and culture that's clouding his view. If it's true, I'd feel a lot of sympathy for him but at the same time he needs to change.

 

We're certainly hoping that's the case. I'm a pessimist so I'm expecting him to be an antagonist or even more messed up the next time he shows up. Or die. There are a lot of ways this whole thing could go very wrong.

 

He does grab the imagination and run, doesn't he?

 

He sure does.

 

This has come up before, but one of the key moments that makes me think a Solavellan background will have a significant effect in the upcoming DLC are hints that his connection with her ties him to the here and now of modern Thedas.  The hope she represents- that some Dalish may be willing to open their minds and embrace their true heritage- offers him a path toward an actual future for his People, not just a return to the past.  

 

"In all Thedas, I did not expect to find someone who could draw my attention from the Fade."

 

Consider the meaning this line has in context of what Solas actually means when he refers to the fade.  When he talks about his experiences there, it's never really "just" that- it's his actual past, a connection to the time before he made that one critical choice that snowballed into unfathomable misery for his People and personal sorrow.   She gives him a tiny flicker of hope that this world can be fixed.  He can find redemption moving forward, not back.   

 

Now, whether this has a key effect on the nature of The Big Thing he's planning is a matter of debate.  But I'd be utterly shocked if it had none at all.

[Hedinve]

It was a bad comparison, I know. I just couldn't come up with something RL that actually fits. Hence the "sort of". I was thinking as in someone with a set belief system doing a complete 180. 

[jellobell]

Does this mean you're on Team Optimistic Jello?

Ha! Dread Wolf take me for a fool, but I am.

 

I know I'm just courting a broken heart by hoping for a happy outcome, but I'd probably be an utter wreck if I didn't.

[Ajna]

I've seen people say this over and over again, but... am I missing where it was clearly spelled out that Solas intends to release the elf gods or anything like that? I suppose it looks to be the obvious course of action, but it really does seem a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. "Oh, things were bad after I shut people away, I'll let them out so it can go back to whatever it was! Sound plan. Should work." Nah...? It seems to be slamming clues and random ideas into a neat little box, and I'd be a bit disappointed if that's all it was.

I think it's just an assumption that most people seem to make when trying to put the pieces together.  His final words to Flemythal stay with me and tend to stop me going in that direction, they sit in my heart as hope, because they could mean ANYTHING.

[TheComfyCat]

I've seen people say this over and over again, but... am I missing where it was clearly spelled out that Solas intends to release the elf gods or anything like that? I suppose it looks to be the obvious course of action, but it really does seem a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. "Oh, things were bad after I shut people away, I'll let them out so it can go back to whatever it was! Sound plan. Should work." Nah...? It seems to be slamming clues and random ideas into a neat little box, and I'd be a bit disappointed if that's all it was.

 

No, we don't know what his plans actually are. So saying he's going to release the "gods" is actually just speculation.

[Ajna]

Ha! Dread Wolf take me for a fool, but I am.

 

I know I'm just courting a broken heart by hoping for a happy outcome, but I'd probably be an utter wreck if I didn't.

Good good