153429 réponses à ce sujet

[LapCat]

 

 

 

Yeah, we're trying to put together a puzzle with maaaaybe a quarter of the pieces. It's fun to theorize but we don't have nearly enough to 'know' anything.

 

You know, maybe it's someone else's mistake that draws him back into the story. I could see him showing up in a reaction to something he can't ignore, since he seems to think he's going to be alone forever doing whatever it is he's doing.

 

 

That is good to keep in perspective. We really don't know much do we? I mean how many were guessing about Flemeth and then it was completely different?

[zambixi]

This! Cole is so much part of the family.

 

And the game is totally written for Lavellan to feel guilty of the breakup either way. Both banters shows it well. She somehow feels like she's not enough: too Dalish... too influencable... thats your choice.

 

But she doesnt get to be 'Its all right im not taking it personally'. Which is such a rare occurrence in games where you save the world and eat your cake too. 

 

I love this. It makes the relationship seem more meaningful if Lavellan is hurt by the end of it. And Cole articulated so well what I was feeling then: here Lavellan is, she's changed, and then...wtf happened? One of my favorite scenes in ME3 is during the romance with Kaiden where FemShep can be like, "what if all of this goes to **** and we fail?" Here's my character who has been strong, and brave, and unflappable for almost three games showing doubt. It was really powerful. And real. Because who doesn't doubt themselves of their decisions sometimes? I love those moments.

 

Has anyone else considered the possibility that maybe the other elven gods are the source of the Blight, or were somehow afflicted by it?  It might be that they became corrupted, and that's why they all started doing their mass murdering thing.  Andruil was drawn by the Abyss, for instance, and its horrible monsters.  Were those demons?  Some kind of proto-darkspawn?

 

We don't know.  And with the Forbidden Ones representing things like pestilence and disease... well what if they made the Blight, and it did spread to the other elven gods?

 

I won't say "OMG the elven gods were really gods for sure," but I do think they were something more than mages--Solas mentions they could be spirits etc.  I think there was definitely a time when he did believe himself to be a god.  It's entirely possible that they were something more than just spirits or mages, but not quite gods.  In any case, they were something that, if they were corrupted, would be terrible.

 

I doubt if Solas plans to drop the Veil; he wanted to ensure that it became stronger.  We would have surely noticed if those elven artifacts dropped the Veil, and I'm pretty sure that Solas acknowledged the harm the Rifts were doing.  So why would he then drop the Veil entirely?

 

No, I think he wants to free the elven gods, but if my theory about their corruption is right...

 

Bear in mind that the Blight is not only horribly infections, but it's also basically hatred and rage and greed and envy and all that horrible stuff in disease form.  So, corrupt such powerful entities and make them filled with hate etc... And yet, there might be a cure for it.  It might be that's why Solas is not too keen on the Wardens' solution to the Blight--and it might be that he knows enough about it that his comment that killing the archdemons might make things worse, is true.  I suspect it is, in fact, true.

 

And as for whether or not Solas is lying... well to me, he's lying, but up until he breaks it off with Lavellan "for her own good," I can't blame him.  My Lavellan is Keeper's First.  I can't imagine her reaction to her boyfriend being Fen'harel would be a good one.  Could she move on in time?  Sure, she'd probably eventually become okay with it, once she realized that he'd hidden WHAT he was, but not WHO.  But, it would take time.  Despite all she's learned about Fen'harel's original identity (rebellion), it would take time to get used to the idea that he's not quite what she thought he was her entire life.

 

I do believe my Lavellan already suspected Solas was an ancient elf.  She had no proof, though, and he didn't willingly tell her, so she didn't press.  I also like to think she'd understand he had some good reasons for leaving, that she comes to realize he wasn't lying about how he cared for her--he was so sad to leave, after all.  But that doesn't mean she'll ever be pleased that he left without any real explanation.  She deserved to know so she could decide for herself what to do, not be kept in the dark like a child.  Even if he'd never told her until post-Corypheus, he still should have told her.

 

Re: Blight

 

To me Solas seems to know a lot about Blight magic and not so much about the actual Blight, the Darkspawn, etc. I could see the original blight magic stemming from the abyss, but I wonder why it took a couple centuries after the fall of Arlathan for the First Blight to happen then. I wish we'd had the opportunity to learn more from Coryphefish :-|

 

I was surprised at my reaction about Blackwall, because at face value he is not so different from Solas. Neither are being entirely honest, even if one is by outright lying and the other by omission. I really liked Blackwall, but when the reveal came I was surprised. When I found out that his leaving happens after the sex scene with a romanced inquisitor, I felt literally ill. I still can't quite articulate why. It just felt so wrong and selfish and sleazy when I watched the romance as it happened. 

 

I guessed stuff about Solas part way through the game. I saw that I was right after the credits rolled. I did not feel ill and have no problem with the idea he and my inquisitor had any sort of relations. This isn't bias just because I liked and romanced Solas, it just felt different somehow, and I really wish I can understand why. Maybe it is because from what we know, Solas never pretended to be anyone but himself. He just didn't admit to all that he was.

 

Dammit. I still need to give this some thought.

 

I think the difference is that Blackwall is not just obscuring his identity, he's actively giving you a false one. He's claiming the life and accomplishments of someone else. Solas lies by omission, but he doesn't fill the spaces of his identity with anything else, really. He doesn't really craft a new life, just stretches the aspects of his original life. When he reaches a point in the relationship where he feels like he can't continue without revealing more, he ends the relationship (badly). Blackwall lies about his identity and puts something in its place that belonged to someone else, all because he doesn't want to own up to his past actions. Maybe I'm being unfair, but I felt much more betrayed by Blackwall as well. I'm glad you could redeem him and get a positive resolution, but I wasn't able to invite him back with open arms - just send him to the Wardens.

 

Yeah, we're trying to put together a puzzle with maaaaybe a quarter of the pieces. It's fun to theorize but we don't have nearly enough to 'know' anything.

 

You know, maybe it's someone else's mistake that draws him back into the story. I could see him showing up in a reaction to something he can't ignore, since he seems to think he's going to be alone forever doing whatever it is he's doing.

 

 

I would love that. Then whatever that is comes to mess with Lavellan, and she takes care of it on her own. Solas shows up planning to rescue her and she's all "oh hey, you're a little late bro." Maybe for extra drama he's made because she didn't do it "correctly" and she can be all "you left you don't get to have an opinion on what I do." A little anger, then something Big comes up and they have to join to fight it together?

[Cheerios789]

Crackpot theory time. What if the eluvians lead to a continent that is separated from Thedas by an extremely wide ocean? Solas broke some of the eluvians so that the elven gods are trapped across the ocean and can't come to Thedas whenever they want.

 

 

HAHAHAHAHA

 

I LOVE this.  So what would that make the Qunari then?  Some horribly gone wrong mistake of Ghilan'nain (sp?)?  Elgar'nan was all "Honey, you have to stop crossbreeding your slaves with dragons it's not natural.  Go kill them."  and Ghilly (yeah I'm calling her that) secretly put them on a boat and sent them away to "be free"

 

If she couldn't kill the Halla how could she possibly be able to resist those beatiful Qunari horns.

[MadameQuizzy]

Crackpot theory time. What if the eluvians lead to a continent that is separated from Thedas by an extremely wide ocean? Solas broke some of the eluvians so that the elven gods are trapped across the ocean and can't come to Thedas whenever they want.

 

I like this idea, although it's hard to imagine a culture that managed to float cities can't build ships - or it's uncrossable for whatever other reasons I clearly lack fantasy to? it would be so interesting though if we could explore new areas, states or maybe even times (since time travel is a thing now) in a DLC... a girl can dream, right? 

 

In a slightly off-topic note - is there a thread or a collection of what we know about the Avaar? 

[Tielis]

We really don't know how many babies suffered for Solas actions, do we? That means we are back to justifying actions based on intentions and that's not good. Need more information! We need a DLC and a book.

 

Imagine a book by Mr. Weekes about Arlathan times with young Fen'Harel and the other gods.  I guess my love of that "The Well of Eternity" Warcraft book is showing.

[Brass_Buckles]

Crackpot theory time. What if the eluvians lead to a continent that is separated from Thedas by an extremely wide ocean? Solas broke some of the eluvians so that the elven gods are trapped across the ocean and can't come to Thedas whenever they want.

 

Considering how powerful they were, I don't think crossing oceans would have been a problem for them at all.  I mean it's an interesting theory, I just don't think that's what happened.

 

I think the ancient gods are either trapped in the Fade, or they are in some other alternate reality.  The world the eluvians are in, for instance, is basically custom-made for elves.  And that's why we see when Solas and Flemeth are there, it's all colorful and such - their elf-god souls let them recreate it as it once was.  When we go there with Morrigan, it is instead lifeless and empty and colorless.  (Anyone else think we'd get to wander the eluvians and then found themselves disappointed we didn't?)

 

There are other realms besides the real world, the Fade, and the world within the eluvians.  Perhaps the Forbidden Ones were sealed within the Abyss, with the Blight they'd created?  And if they still somehow had power, or the ability to reach out...

 

I maintain I think the Golden City really used to be golden... but that it became blighted, not because of Corypheus, but because of something already inside of it.  Perhaps something inside of that city is why it was sealed away in the first place.  It is not necessarily Arlathan; it could be even older, or it could be tied to the dwarves.  With the red lyrium plot going on, and that ancient thaig where dwarves seemed to have once had magic in DAII, I began to wonder if the origin of the Blight wasn't the magisters, but actually the dwarves.  And it would make a certain amount of sense if that were the case--after all, where do darkspawn come from?

 

Whatever the origins of the Blight--and I don't think it began with Cory & Co--it's obviously Bad Stuff, and Solas seems to know more about it than we do.  Even beyond that bit of banter, I recall him saying that killing all of the archdemons was irresponsible, because it might even manage to make the Blight worse.  Some objective thinking led me to agree that it might, because then there would be no "pause" in the darkspawn coming to the surface while they dug for another archdemon.  But I think Solas knows more than that.

[madrar]

Except when it came to Corypheus, his plan was simple and it was stupid.

 

Solas has two critical flaws, his idealism and his belief in elvhen superiority over all other races. I say racism instead of pride (though it still is pride) because that was the driving force behind his belief that Cory would never figure out how to use the orb to its full potential because he was just a dumb human. I fully believe he intended for Corypheus to generate enough power to unlock the orb, but die in the process. Corypheus, however, is more durable than that and he did figure it out. Dorian will even tell you they have similar foci in Tevinter (or they used to?) based on that same elven technology. And... that's the kickstarter for the main plot of the game.

 

 

 

Careful...  that's a fairly large assumption being used to paint in broad swaths of his character.

 

All we know for certain is that Solas didn't think Corypheus would be capable of unlocking the orb's full power.  You're correct that one possible interpretation would be Solas-still-as-Pride "a mere moral human could not possibly do it".   However, it could just as plausibly be Solas-as-Wisdom "with the veil up, the power required to do that would demand a degree of blood magic that no sane person would be capable of sacrificing".

 

It's not at all certain.

[dragondreamer]

Hehe, what if Solas ended up trapping loads of ancient elves who were the servants of these gods? Like, he only wanted to trap the gods by themselves, but their servants interfered and he had to trap them too. Now he feels terrible about all the innocents who got trapped in the crossfire.

 

Possibly, but I have a feeling it's something more...

 

HAHAHAHAHA

 

I LOVE this.  So what would that make the Qunari then?  Some horribly gone wrong mistake of Ghilan'nain (sp?)?  Elgar'nan was all "Honey, you have to stop crossbreeding your slaves with dragons it's not natural.  Go kill them."  and Ghilly (yeah I'm calling her that) secretly put them on a boat and sent them away to "be free"

 

If she couldn't kill the Halla how could she possibly be able to resist those beatiful Qunari horns.

 

This reminds me of one of my theories that the Qunari were elves that became dragon-like due to whatever their adaptability thing is.  I've also thought that the way elves adapt and change (the reproduction issues in particular) resembles what spirits do when they imitate things in reality... 

[Eivuwan]

I like this idea, although it's hard to imagine a culture that managed to float cities can't build ships - or it's uncrossable for whatever other reasons I clearly lack fantasy to? it would be so interesting though if we could explore new areas, states or maybe even times (since time travel is a thing now) in a DLC... a girl can dream, right? 

 

In a slightly off-topic note - is there a thread or a collection of what we know about the Avaar? 

 

Hehe, what if Solas sent all of the gods' servants to Thedas so that they don't have the manpower to build ships or whatever. I mean, they're not really gods, just really powerful mages so they may not be powerful enough to cross oceans without help. Or they don't to take the risk and end up accidentally drowning with their crew of what 12 people?

[Hedinve]

Ancient elves are terrified of water. Problem solved.

[kalasaurus]

We really don't know how many babies suffered for Solas actions, do we? That means we are back to justifying actions based on intentions and that's not good. Need more information! We need a DLC and a book.

 

He did lie? A lot. My problem is that I don't really care if he did in said circumstances. I hope there's a complete Blackwall romance on youtube, I struggle enough with Cullen.

 

Yeah, I haven't seen Blackwall's romance either so I can't really be the judge on it in comparison to Solas's romance.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by the babies comment?  Is that a reference to Blackwall?

[Eivuwan]

Considering how powerful they were, I don't think crossing oceans would have been a problem for them at all.  I mean it's an interesting theory, I just don't think that's what happened.

 

I think the ancient gods are either trapped in the Fade, or they are in some other alternate reality.  The world the eluvians are in, for instance, is basically custom-made for elves.  And that's why we see when Solas and Flemeth are there, it's all colorful and such - their elf-god souls let them recreate it as it once was.  When we go there with Morrigan, it is instead lifeless and empty and colorless.  (Anyone else think we'd get to wander the eluvians and then found themselves disappointed we didn't?)

 

There are other realms besides the real world, the Fade, and the world within the eluvians.  Perhaps the Forbidden Ones were sealed within the Abyss, with the Blight they'd created?  And if they still somehow had power, or the ability to reach out...

 

I maintain I think the Golden City really used to be golden... but that it became blighted, not because of Corypheus, but because of something already inside of it.  Perhaps something inside of that city is why it was sealed away in the first place.  It is not necessarily Arlathan; it could be even older, or it could be tied to the dwarves.  With the red lyrium plot going on, and that ancient thaig where dwarves seemed to have once had magic in DAII, I began to wonder if the origin of the Blight wasn't the magisters, but actually the dwarves.  And it would make a certain amount of sense if that were the case--after all, where do darkspawn come from?

 

Whatever the origins of the Blight--and I don't think it began with Cory & Co--it's obviously Bad Stuff, and Solas seems to know more about it than we do.  Even beyond that bit of banter, I recall him saying that killing all of the archdemons was irresponsible, because it might even manage to make the Blight worse.  Some objective thinking led me to agree that it might, because then there would be no "pause" in the darkspawn coming to the surface while they dug for another archdemon.  But I think Solas knows more than that.

 

I know it's unlikely to be true, but it's fun to throw out crackpot theories. It would be more cool if it's a whole other continent because it always bothered me that we only get Thedas and not know what the rest of that planet looks like.

[Amriah]

Ancient elves are terrified of water. Problem solved.

 

You mean everyone just instantly drowns when they get into deep water, right? 

[Brass_Buckles]

It's the respect.  Solas seems to respect you and your feelings.  Blackwall is shady as ****.  I mean I like him, as a friend and sitting away from me.  Blackwall murdered children.  He didn't do it for the 'greater good'.  He didn't do it because he thought it was the right thing to do.  He did it, because ... his boss told him to.  Also it kinda feels like he is stringing you along for one last 'hoorah' before the nasty finish.

 

Solas, tries to push you away and seems genuinely surprised and almost confused by his complete head-over-heels attachment to you.  I know he lied and that's ... awkward, but I really don't think he wants to keep up the lie.  I feel like he genuinely wants to tell you the truth.

 

Blackwall readily admits that he wants to actually be Blackwall.  It's delusional and dangerous.  He is one step away from an insane asylum.  Though it is sad, he did it to himself. 

 

He murdered babies! 

 

It was so hard not to sentence him to death.

 

Re: Blackwall.

 

According to Blackwall if you talk to him later, he didn't know until after the fact that there were children.  His problem was that he could have called a stop to the attack and he didn't.  It's not that he was following orders; BLACKWALL was the one in charge there.  He was trying to prop up that warmonger Gaspard.  I wonder if you take him with you to the ball if Gaspard has anything to say to him?

 

Anyway, so Blackwall is so afraid of who he is and what he's done that he tries to become the Grey Warden who sacrificed his life to save Blackwall.  And I agree, Blackwall's betrayal feels even greater than Solas.  After I had played the game and seen what kind of person Blackwall really was, I personally wanted to kill him, send him to the Wardens... SOMETHING.  But Uth'shiral was kind and forgiving, and at the time I needed his skills in combat.  Still... knowing how Solas's romance ends, I could still romance him again repeatedly.  I could never, ever bring myself to romance Blackwall now that I understand who Blackwall is.

 

I have similar issues with Sten and Zevran, although I typically recruit them.

 

But will I say that what Blackwall does is worse than what Solas has done?  ... Well, considering the results of Solas's actions... no.  It's just that we don't directly see the results of Solas's actions. We see what came thousands of years afterward.  We don't get to see the fall of Arlathan, the thousands of free elves enslaved and the enslaved ones taken under the wing of far cruel masters.  I am sure that Solas sees what Thedas is like as the direct result of his actions, however--starving elves, elves without magic, elves enslaved, elves struggling hand-to-mouth to survive.  Elves who are now mortal.  Spirits suffering, being twisted from their true natures.  The Chantry's persecution... all of this is to him very fresh and very wounding.

 

And yet, I think the difference is that Solas pretty much already owns up to what he caused.  And I think that given what we know of the Creators, the world would still have been in terrible shape even if Solas hadn't intervened.  Maybe it would have been in even worse shape.

 

Solas's hands aren't clean, either.  But Solas fails to tell you WHAT he is--and he has a good reason to do so--but he is pretty clear on WHO he is, via showing what he approves and disapproves of, by slipping up in his story now and then, etc. I wouldn't want to be a Lavellan who slept with him without knowing he's the Dread Wolf, since that knowledge is undoubtedly going to come out sooner or later.  But, either way I think his situation is actually more workable in some ways than Blackwall's.  Solas isn't pretending he's someone else; he even wears who he thinks he is in his very name.  Pride.

[scintilla]

You mean everyone just instantly drowns when they get into deep water, right? 

 

Pffft. Out of likes. Have a heart: 

[MadameQuizzy]

Hehe, what if Solas sent all of the gods' servants to Thedas so that they don't have the manpower to build ships or whatever. I mean, they're not really gods, just really powerful mages so they may not be powerful enough to cross oceans without help. Or they don't to take the risk and end up accidentally drowning with their crew of what 12 people?

 

Maybe a little boat full with the elven gods just shows up in the next installment. "Sorry we're late. Your precious Solas took all our slaves to build ships and our magic isn't that powerful after all"

 

 

 

I maintain I think the Golden City really used to be golden... but that it became blighted, not because of Corypheus, but because of something already inside of it.  Perhaps something inside of that city is why it was sealed away in the first place.  It is not necessarily Arlathan; it could be even older, or it could be tied to the dwarves.  With the red lyrium plot going on, and that ancient thaig where dwarves seemed to have once had magic in DAII, I began to wonder if the origin of the Blight wasn't the magisters, but actually the dwarves.  And it would make a certain amount of sense if that were the case--after all, where do darkspawn come from?

 

Whatever the origins of the Blight--and I don't think it began with Cory & Co--it's obviously Bad Stuff, and Solas seems to know more about it than we do.  Even beyond that bit of banter, I recall him saying that killing all of the archdemons was irresponsible, because it might even manage to make the Blight worse.  Some objective thinking led me to agree that it might, because then there would be no "pause" in the darkspawn coming to the surface while they dug for another archdemon.  But I think Solas knows more than that.

 

When you said "red lyrium" I remembered that part where Dagna explains that Lyrium is alive. Is Lyrium even something that the ancient elves took? I remember Solas saying that some spells took years to cast when asked about magic and the ancient elves' immortality, I wonder, how did they go about it? With help of lyrium? Probably not, or what kind of relations did the ancient elves have to dwarves (if any at all)?

 

Ugh so many questions. I WANT TO KNOW EVERYTHING DAMNIT BIOWARE WHY DO YOU MAKE SO INTERESTING GAMES

[Roxy]

Am I the only one that wants a "Happy ending" between my Lavellan and Solas?

 

It seems every time I come in here several people are wanting or are expecting a tragic ending nothing more...this is DA guys and gals I think there will be options to be with Solas or not in a near future DLC. Of course I'm a optimistic person soooo....yeah. 

 

what happened to the disney and unicorns???? So pessimistic in here sometimes.....

[Brass_Buckles]

I know it's unlikely to be true, but it's fun to throw out crackpot theories. It would be more cool if it's a whole other continent because it always bothered me that we only get Thedas and not know what the rest of that planet looks like.

 

There was a hint at the War Table or something that we will get to see more of the world in the next game, or soon at any rate.  I remember Leliana or someone musing about visiting what lies across the Waking Sea, or something... someone else may have a direct quote?

[scintilla]

Am I the only one that wants a "Happy ending" between my Lavellan and Solas?

 

It seems every time I come in here several people are wanting or are expecting a tragic ending nothing more...this is DA guys and gals I think there will be options to be with Solas or not in a near future DLC. Of course I'm a optimistic person soooo....yeah. 

 

what happened to the disney and unicorns???? So pessimistic in here sometimes.....

 

I think what we want and what we expect to get are sometimes very different things.

 

I'd love a happy ending but I have a hard time believing we'll get it.

[Cheerios789]

You mean everyone just instantly drowns when they get into deep water, right? 

 

Exactly.  Only the Qunari with their exploding ships could make it across and probably Isabella, but I'd doubt she'd want to go there.  Unless she heard the elves had a pretty book ... or she got a good look at Abelas. 

 

This theory is rock solid people and it is my favorite crackpot.

[Brass_Buckles]

Am I the only one that wants a "Happy ending" between my Lavellan and Solas?

 

It seems every time I come in here several people are wanting or are expecting a tragic ending nothing more...this is DA guys and gals I think there will be options to be with Solas or not in a near future DLC. Of course I'm a optimistic person soooo....yeah. 

 

what happened to the disney and unicorns???? So pessimistic in here sometimes.....

 

Well, I for one want a happy ending.  I don't expect it to be sunshine and rainbows, though.  I'm expecting if there is a happy ending it will come hard-won.

[Hedinve]

Blackwall killed children, so yes, it was related to the comparison. I'm on a phone atm so keeping it short. And even more unclear and inarticulate than normal

[Eivuwan]

You mean everyone just instantly drowns when they get into deep water, right? 

 

I was always irritated that my Lavellan couldn't swim. I wanted to swim the oceans of Storm coast. I like how in Guild Wars 2 you can swim around, but that would be a lot of work to implement that. We should have underwater cities for a dlc.

[kalasaurus]

Am I the only one that wants a "Happy ending" between my Lavellan and Solas?

 

It seems every time I come in here several people are wanting or are expecting a tragic ending nothing more...this is DA guys and gals I think there will be options to be with Solas or not in a near future DLC. Of course I'm a optimistic person soooo....yeah. 

 

what happened to the disney and unicorns???? So pessimistic in here sometimes.....

 

No, I'd like a happy ending too.  Despite what it may seem from my posts, my Lavellan would forgive him.  She forgave Blackwall wholeheartedly and gave him his freedom (and I know that comparison is annoying some people here  ).

 

I don't know how it will end happily, though.  There are some really good theories floating around on how it can happen.

[LapCat]

Am I the only one that wants a "Happy ending" between my Lavellan and Solas?

 

It seems every time I come in here several people are wanting or are expecting a tragic ending nothing more...this is DA guys and gals I think there will be options to be with Solas or not in a near future DLC. Of course I'm a optimistic person soooo....yeah. 

 

what happened to the disney and unicorns???? So pessimistic in here sometimes.....

 

Nope. I am all on board the happy ending train. Real life is tough and if I want I sad story, I'll go read A Song of Ice and Fire.