153429 réponses à ce sujet

[Sine_Amore]

A question about the ending:

 

Spoiler

We know that Solas gave Corypheus the Orb, but did this happen after he escaped from the Warden prison, or back when he first entered the Golden City?

Pretty sure it's after he escaped from the Warden prison.

[Brass_Buckles]

Re:  Immortality/godhood only happening for Female Lavellan...

 

Why would it only be so?  Do you think that whatever Solas is doing would somehow exclude anyone else?  Or do you think that this possibility would not be available to other Inquisitors?  Because I think it would, even if you were Solas's hated enemy.  Being able to be Solas's immortal equal would just be a side benefit for a Lady Lavellan who romanced him.

 

But isn't being immortal and ancient and all that fuss the thing that he is - among other things - is so proud of? Like he distinguishes himself and the good old times again and again from "modern times" elves - Dalish and city elves alike.

Wouldn't giving up immortality mean that he is giving up one of the defining things linking him to the past? I'm not sure my quizzy would want that for him...

 

I don't think it's something he'd give up easily.  I also think it's worth considering that despite having suffered tremendous loss over the years, Solas as an immortal elf is probably not psychologically "built" to handle loss the way mortals are.  He's used to people being around for centuries.  Romancing him and then dying of old age (or any other reason) is kind of... beyond cruel.  Again, it's not that death hasn't happened, or that he hasn't seen war, etc.  But I expect if he were to stay with someone, he'd want them around for a very long time.  Memories aren't much when you have thousands of years to miss a person.

 

Do we really know if Solas is immortal? And if he is, what if it is just a spell? I would assume he would know how to extend her life or just take her with him into the fade/wherever he thinks he is going.

 

Solas himself says it's not a spell.  He's been sleeping for a couple thousand years.  I'd say it's pretty certain he's immortal.

 

GAH. Don't let me see these things! I'm already waffling like crazy between my Inquisitors, trying to decide who I want to romance next.

 

The whole "have you taken a vow of chastity?" flirt was his second flirt, right? It did seem a little... out there to be asking him something like that so quickly. It was also funny as hell for me, though. I'm like my mom and have no problem discussing sexual stuff with relative strangers. I know it's "uncouth" but *shrug*. lol

 

If Solas's body is his original body, that means he's an ancient elf at the least, or what is considered a god at the most. I think it's safe to assume he's immortal (in the "as long as I'm not mortally wounded, I'll live forever" sense, like the ancient elves). He also says that that immortality the ancient elves possessed wasn't part of a spell. It's something that just was. So it doesn't sound like it's something he'd be able to easily give someone, if it can actually be given at all.

 

I think Solas has not done any body-hopping.  Flemeth doesn't call him by some other name; she knows him as Dread Wolf.  She recognizes him.  I suppose it's possible--maybe he really did possess the body of a youngster back in that Tevinter village, the body of a slave who wanted to rebel?  Or maybe that's just a story he saw in the Fade, that caught his interest.

 

Eh, why not? Only guys that romanced Morrigan could go through the Eluvian with her. It's not as if something special just for a subset hasn't happened before. Granted that's a bit bigger than walking through a mirror, and a lot of guys romanced Morrigan, but it could happen.

 

Though really, if there were any sort of "give up immortality" crap going on I don't see my Lavellan agreeing to it. That would be selfish on her part to expect of him. If elves don't somehow end up immortal again, or her mark/events don't give her (or Lavellans in general) that option, she'd be just fine with sharing her life with him to its end, assuming they can get back together and have a happy resolution. The world and all that goes on in it is ultimately bigger than her wants and desires, so she'll take what she can reasonably have and let the rest be what it is.

 

I think godhood's a bit different from going through an eluvian, though.  Or immortality.  Etc.  I think that's something everyone would have the chance at.

 

Is Lavellan being mortal really such a big issue? Sure, she might die and he'd live on. But presumably Solas has had to deal with this before. It doesn't make it easy, it doesn't make him care any less. It would be a tragedy, and it would hurt. But people don't tend to just exist in constant agony when a loved one dies. Life goes on. You aren't expected to just die because the love of your life dies. 

 

I'm not a really big fan of the idea that the only way they can be together is for one of them to give up mortality/immortality. Love is a great, wonderful thing! But it isn't the be all end all of someone's life. 

 

I repeat, this probably will be a big issue for Solas if it isn't already--assuming that the relationship continues.  Which I have a theory about...

But yes, when you're used to everyone you know living for thousands of years, it would be very difficult to cope with grief.  Perhaps that's why the Solas we meet is so very sad and desperate and lonely.  Someone he knows, some vestige of that world, should still be around, by his reckoning.  Maybe that's why he feels he has to bring back the past, more than any other reason.  Because all of those people shouldn't be dead, they're immortal!

 

I really love these sketches from hawkelahawke on how Solas could have looked if Bioware went for a more wild and wolf-like appearance.

 

I confess, I rather prefer Solas as he is.  He can look vicious when he wants to, or he can have the gentlest smile.  I admit it... my heart kinda melts a little when Solas is smiling.  So. Cute.  So no... I wouldn't like him looking more feral, I think.

 

Brace for crazy theory.

 

[nuts]

It's not a pleasant prospect, but immortality could have been bred out of the ancient elves.   We know from ME that half-elves exist, direct evidence that humans and elves can interbreed.  They are possibly the only races that can in Thedas, though I don't know that for certain.  Ignoring the interesting ramifications this might have in the original appearance of humans for now, focus on the rise of Tevinter in the aftermath of the fall of Arlathan.

 

You have a nation of mortal men with a keen interest in blood magic, and their immortal slaves.  Though I'm not sure about this aspect, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the blood of a random street urchin and the blood of Mythal have a bit of a different kick when used.   That adds additional motivation, but either way, you have a slave population that does not naturally replenish itself, with masters that have a vested interest in using up the lives of those slaves.

 

End result:  human interbreeding, perhaps forced, to produce more slaves as the most powerful elvhen were sacrificed, the elvish blood getting weaker and lives shorter with each successive generation.

 

It's not a great theory, but it would explain why ancient elves remain seemingly unaffected by the quickening in the modern day, even though the "Gods" are sealed away and Solas / Felassan / etc are fine despite being in constant contact with Shems.

 

It doesn't bode well for Lavellan, though.

[/nuts]

 

Immortality couldn't be bred out of the elves, because when they interbreed with humans their children are human, not half-elf.  What could have happened is that interbreeding with elves caused humans to start being capable of magic; in fact this seems pretty likely.

 

My theory on the loss of elven immortality is twofold:  One, they come from some realm that is not the Fade but also not "reality;" perhaps whatever world is within the eluvians--the elves who went there in TME felt very much at home there, and had great influence over the place's appearance.  Once cut off from that world, and the eluvians, the elves would have lost whatever essential magical ingredient to their being that gave them immortality.

 

Two:  Elves are spirits, or something similar.  Therefore, the Creators became more godlike because they were believed to be gods.  And, when humans outnumbered the elves, humans perceived elves as being like themselves, and therefore the elves, due to that belief, became more human.

 

Theory two seems less likely, because it appears that Solas/Fen'harel is still immortal.  That could be because the Dalish still think he's around, but more likely it's because he's not been severed from whatever it is that makes elves immortal.  Basically he and Abelas invalidate both my theories by existing.

 

As for Ispan:  Your theory on Masked Empire has been discussed... I remain uncertain that Fen'harel/Solas killed Felassan.  I certainly don't think he took over his body, because no one recognizes him who existed within that novel--and there are several people who should.  Gaspard, Briala, Celene, Michel de Chevin... all of them met Felassan, and none of them show any recognition of Solas.  My idea is that Felassan served someone else, because I recall him either calling or thinking of this person as his master.  Thus, Felassan was a slave.  One thing we have learned for sure about Solas is that he values freedom above all things.  A person like Solas is unlikely to have had a slave.  More likely, in my opinion, Felassan was disenchanted with his master, and was being a bit rebellious by praising and promoting Fen'harel.  Perhaps he hoped Fen'harel would help him?  Granted, it could have been that Solas killed him; after all there were some things he did that perhaps Solas would not have been too keen on--including giving Briala the eluvian access, which he may have wanted to free the other elven gods.  But I think that's a plan he only very recently decided upon... so I am uncertain.  And if he were serving Solas/Fen'harel, then it would not have been in the slave-like capacity he seems to have (and he is wearing vallaslin, remember) in the novel.

 

I really hope that it is clarified sometime who precisely murdered Felassan... but I think if it were Solas/Fen'harel there would have been some kind of mention of it?

[BoscoBread]

That is an interesting piece of banter. I'm trying to wrap my head around what the idea of "real" means. I guess what you can determine is that people lived in a certain state before the gods/spirits/whatever were sealed away and he is going to put it back. Perhaps its not that the gods need to rule, but that they took something with them when they left.Seems like something big is in the making.

I think you're getting too caught up in the word.  I think the real means that his relationship with her was real and geniune.  The feelings were real. For a brief moment he saw he could be happy in moving forward instead of trying to go backwards and right his old wrong.  There is another Cole party banter where Cole says something to Solas like "You can find happiness in your own way.  You can just forget them and it would be alright"(or something like that).   I think people are trying to make him something that he just isn't - which is this ridiculous superbeing.  He's just a person. Albeit a very powerful mage and very old.  He's flawed, limited in his thinking(as much as he espouses being open-minded), and arrogant. He's also been remarkably truthful through the whole game...just not totally upfront.  This is why I think he's such an interesting character.  Even on a PT as a non-LI he's interesting and I am optimistic that BW will do his character justice in the end.

[madrar]

I'm not entirely following....Why wouldn't Fear and Desire exist before the Veil? Solas made it sound like they were still around just different?

 

I was thinking more along the lines of evolution. When the elves are running around without fire or sewing, they're motivated by fear of things that could kill them and the desire to eat and exist/procreate. Not exactly that because we don't know how The Beginning started, but I don't think it was just BAM CIVILIZATION. Or maybe it was. *shrug*

 

Oh!  Sorry.  Wasn't clear about the timeline there.

 

In this crackpot theory, the first creations of the Maker were pure spirits.   Smack me if I'm wrong here, (I don't have much background in various religions aside from the general broad strokes you pick up via cultural osmosis) but it would have been very much like Judeo-Christian hosts of angels or Tolkien's Vanyar / Mayar / etc.  They were servants of the Maker, obedient to the point of being pure extensions of his will.   No free will of their own.  Everything sang the same.   This is key.

 

A bit more on the Tolkien side: they sing the harmonious Song of Creation, and praise him, until one of the host (Morgoth in this instance) believes he can one-up the Maker and improve upon the song.  Harmony is broken.  

 

Not so different from Judeo-Christian Lucifer, I think?  Though again- smack me if not, because I really don't have a firm grounding here.

 

Anyway.   In crackpot land, these pseudo-spirity first children of the Maker are the ancient elves.   Or they become the ancient elves.  Back then there aren't really firm lines dividing such things.   We're still in a pre-veil world, where the Song and will is constantly shaping the world.  No hunger, no cold, no desire, etc.   No mortal concerns.  It isn't until the veil goes up and they have to deal with existing in a permanent, unyeilding reality that the newly-mortal elves have to struggle with such things.  

 

This is all still crazeballs, though.   I haven't really poked at it for obvious holes or tried to match it up to the scraps we know.  

[arelenriel]

I doubt that Solas is immortal, he just have a long lifespan. Also I think, that elven gods aren't really gods, only the most powerfull nobles among acient elves. Just like in ancient history where i.e pharaoh was "god" for his ppl. Anyway, Solas joined Inquisition and he even told that he have to join becouse Cassandra/troops could kill him. So if someone is killable he/she isn't immortal right?

About his romance, well I didn't romance him and after my first pt I decided, that I will not do that before I will get the whole story. I hate cliffchangers, and I really don't want to stuck who knows how long to get proper ending. I don't know if Solas/Flemeth thing will be resolved in any DLC ( best option for me), or we will have to wait another four years to see Solas in DA4. I just hope, that his writer will not forget, that Solas was an romance option like BioWare did with Thane in ME3. I don't  care about happy ending, I just want any ending ( with really good writing and not crappy excuse for character's dead or something).

That is not necessarily the case. In LOTR the elves were immortal just as in DAI but, they could be slain by accidents, or through broken hearts - they would go to Valinor and would be reincarnated after that but they could not return to Middle Earth- that only happened once with Luthien. Immortal suggests that you cannot be slain by normal means such as old age not that you cannot die at all.. after all one cannot consider being involved in a war, or you know falling off a cliff to be "normal" occurances for anyone.

[InkQuest]

A question about the ending:

 

Spoiler

We know that Solas gave Corypheus the Orb, but did this happen after he escaped from the Warden prison, or back when he first entered the Golden City?

 

I believe the most common theory is that it happened recently, since there is a lot of time between the original attempt and the start of DA:I. It makes more sense.

[Sine_Amore]

Give them ALL to me!!

Spoiler

 

http://kelgrid.devia...-hair-467370928

Oh my god, yesh. That's hilarious. XD

[Birdy]

I think I love this artist

"Cole putting his powers to good use"

 

 

http://kelgrid.tumbl...age-inquisition

[Liec]

I believe the most common theory is that it happened recently, since there is a lot of time between the original attempt and the start of DA:I. It makes more sense.

 

Spoiler

But if Corypheus was able to reach the Golden City by his own means, then why'd he need a different method (the orb) now? Plus, time isn't much of an issue if Solas is either a god, or an old elf who can sleep indefinitely instead of dying.

[Sine_Amore]

I think I love this artist
*snip*

"Cole putting his powers to good use"

 

 

http://kelgrid.tumbl...age-inquisition

BUAHAHAHAHA~~~

[LapCat]

I just realized this, but maybe someone mentioned it before. When you are in conversation with Solas after drinking from the Well, he asks what you are planning on doing with it. If you say, "make the world a better place" he responds with "what if you wake up and the world you created is worse than the one before." If you answer with "I'll keep trying." He thanks you for it and adds there is hope that even if consequences are dire, it is best to keep trying. Sorry, I would put up a video but my technology ability is limited.

 

Just an interesting bit. Maybe the Inquisitor is responsible for showing him that there is still hope.

[wildannie]

I think my head's about to explode with all the theories,  I've still not finished the game but I think I've spoiled myself enough to have some thoughts on some of the things being discussed in this 100mph thread.

 

Okay, Re: potential for a happy ending... I really really hope so!  The treatment of Thane in ME3 reaaaaalllly upset me, I thought it was awful for so many reasons that I'll not go into here but I did go into (many times  ) on the relevant thread.  

I am hopeful that BW took the reaction of many fans to heart and will not go that route again, especially since its potentially the same group of fans who are being affected again.  What we need is choices, and no unavoidable deaths, amiright?.  

I'm not concerned that PW was part of the ME3 writing team,  he was really quite kind in the aftermath of ME3 and responded to some questions re: Thane revealing that he had been in favour of an option to save Thane,  but the rest of the team were not so I don't think we need worry about him having murderous thoughts regarding characters... we could even save Mordin.

 

In one of the convos with Solas (about ancient elves I think) he refers to that time being 'another world' or something like that.  If Sandal's prophecy relates to this, I hope, and kind of think that the return of magic is going to happen regardless and maybe the inquisitor will have the option to forgive or fight Solas.  Either way, Solas' work will be done, they are in 'another world' ... didn't he say they could have been together in another world or something like that??? He didn't say in 'another life' and he is tricky with his wording.

 

A huge world changing event would give the DA team great scope in moving the world forward with new enemies, changes in the balance of power etc.  We've been fighting darkspawn, and demons for three games.  DAI has undermined much of what we thought we knew, I think we could do with a shake up of the franchise going forward and the full ramifications of the return of magic are unlikely to materialize overnight, there are many stories that could be told.

 

Anyway, I'll stop rambling and go back to waiting until by partner's not around so I can play 'What Pride has Wrought' for the first time without being laughed at.

[Sine_Amore]

Spoiler

But if Corypheus was able to reach the Golden City by his own means, then why'd he need a different method (the orb) now? Plus, time isn't much of an issue if Solas is either a god, or an old elf who can sleep indefinitely instead of dying.

Spoiler

Solas only just woke up recently, presumably not long before the Conclave. Coryphefish was obviously not as strong as he once was. It even stands to reason that Coryphespit had a different elvhen orb way back in the day, but between all the powerful magisters, he may not have needed it. *shrugs*

[jawsisinmywc]

So this weekend I started a female Qunari just to see another side of the game and couldn't stop talking to Solas and my heart just wasn't in the character. Then I started a male dwarf and planned to do an Assquisitor run...couldn't keep going much less be an ass to Solas. Now I have started a new lady Elf and am going to do the romance all over again, because apparently I like pain! Grrrr I need help!. 

I have come to the conclusion that doing the Solas romance is like drinking from the Well of Sorrows and Patrick Weekes is Mythal. That means that this forum is like all the voices of those who drank before you.

[dragondreamer]

Anyway.   In crackpot land, these pseudo-spirity first children of the Maker are the ancient elves.

 

Yeah, I've wondered about this myself...  Solas doesn't believe in the Maker though, and we'll never know if he exists or not, so this would be one of those dark mysteries we'll never know for sure.

 

I think I love this artist

"Cole putting his powers to good use"

 

 

http://kelgrid.tumbl...age-inquisition

 

My Likes are gone, whyyyy~

[The Oracle]

Give them ALL to me!!

Spoiler

 

http://kelgrid.devia...-hair-467370928

 

Now THIS brings up an even huger (tis a word in my mind folks) question than any Solas/God/Immortality stuff. How in the blue hell can Cass get a thick braid going all the way around her short, choppy hairdo? I mean, does she just have a circling crown of long hair for braiding and then the rest is short and choppy? How do you explain that one to a barber...?

[Ispan]

Last thing from me about the Cole dialogue, I swear >.<

 

"You're real, and it means everyone could be real."

 

My friend just blew my mind pointing out that Cole could've been talking about Solas becoming real, which would also blow his mind and make him rethink his plans.  Ugh, I have a million thoughts on the subject the I can't communicate properly so I won't even try for now.

 

I just realized this, but maybe someone mentioned it before. When you are in conversation with Solas after drinking from the Well, he asks what you are planning on doing with it. If you say, "make the world a better place" he responds with "what if you wake up and the world you created is worse than the one before." If you answer with "I'll keep trying." He thanks you for it and adds there is hope that even if consequences are dire, it is best to keep trying. Sorry, I would put up a video but my technology ability is limited.

 

Just an interesting bit. Maybe the Inquisitor is responsible for showing him that there is still hope.

 

This conversation felt incredibly important, a real turning point for him

[Birdy]

Now THIS brings up an even huger (tis a word in my mind folks) question than any Solas/God/Immortality stuff. How in the blue hell can Cass get a thick braid going all the way around her short, choppy hairdo? I mean, does she just have a circling crown of long hair for braiding and then the rest is short and choppy? How do you explain that one to a barber...?

Lol. I was looking at her hair and thinking the same.  XD "How the hell???"

[InkQuest]

Spoiler

But if Corypheus was able to reach the Golden City by his own means, then why'd he need a different method (the orb) now? Plus, time isn't much of an issue if Solas is either a god, or an old elf who can sleep indefinitely instead of dying.

 

Spoiler

I believe in-game lore says that Corypheus and the other magisters breached the fade by using blood magic and a lot of slaves. It wasn't just him who did it, either. In modern days he doesn't have access to the same resources he originally did. 

 

And while time may not be an issue to someone who is presumably immortal, that'd leave a very big window to recover the orb before Cory used it again.

[Birdy]

 

 

My Likes are gone, whyyyy~

I've taken them all.  

[madrar]

I believe the most common theory is that it happened recently, since there is a lot of time between the original attempt and the start of DA:I. It makes more sense.

 

It's common, but I'm pretty sure it's wrong.  

 

1.  The only known ways in/out of the City are eluvian and Solas' orb, and It's pretty clear Corypheus didn't get there by eluvian last time.

 

2.  His lack of anchor from the first breach could be explained by C not being the recipient the first time around.  Even crossing off the Architect, we have six other "lost" magisters to account for.  Also possible that the anchor was Corypheus trying something new to "keep" the power this time, so that if he were separated from the orb - as must have happened at some point before he was locked away - he would retain much of its power.

 

3.  Even if you believe Solas is still Pride, he'd have to be an absolute idiot to hand his orb willingly to darkspawn!Corypheus.  He may not have any power over Blight, but he certainly knows what it is and fears it.   

 

4.  As for his "missing years"- let's just say, whoever started up the Andrastean religion knew a hell of a lot more about the Fade-Reality past than any mortal 900 years ago ought to have.  Also, whoever put it together had some very Solas-y opinions about how society should work, which have been twisted and subverted in the modern Chantry.  

[jawsisinmywc]

Spoiler

Solas only just woke up recently, presumably not long before the Conclave. Coryphefish was obviously not as strong as he once was. It even stands to reason that Coryphespit had a different elvhen orb way back in the day, but between all the powerful magisters, he may not have needed it. *shrugs*

Back in the day Corypheenus and the other magisters needed half of Tevinter's(which then was an empire larger than Orlais) lyrium supplies and an a boot load of blood which he got from slaves. I suspect that he conveniently "stumbled" on orb which was a nice quick way of performing his ritual. 

[BubbleDncr]

So, apparently the only way for me to beat a dragon at level 12 on my human dual-wielding rogue, is to respec my character as an archer, and play as Solas the entire fight. 

 

It was emotionally painful to be controlling Solas for that long. 

[madrar]

Yeah, I've wondered about this myself...  Solas doesn't believe in the Maker though, and we'll never know if he exists or not, so this would be one of those dark mysteries we'll never know for sure.

 

 

My Likes are gone, whyyyy~

 

He certainly doesn't believe in the literal Andrastean version.  As for what the Maker represents... I suspect it's more like when he looks at the rift and the anchor on your hand when you first meet him and he's like, "Wow, gee, I've never seen magic like this before."  

 

Sure, Solas.  =w=  Sure.

[Eivuwan]

I have a scary thought. Part of the reason why we like Solas so much is because the graphics and animations are well done. Imagine if technology gets to the point in which we can play the game as though we are really experiencing it. I mean, how many of us can get back to real life?