I've taken them all.
Spoiler
So, apparently the only way for me to beat a dragon at level 12 on my human dual-wielding rogue, is to respec my character as an archer, and play as Solas the entire fight.
It was emotionally painful to be controlling Solas for that long.
I like to run him around sometimes. 
Solas: *jump jump jump jump*
I have a scary thought. Part of the reason why we like Solas so much is because the graphics and animations are well done. Imagine if technology gets to the point in which we can play the game as though we are really experiencing it. I mean, how many of us can get back to real life?
Wait...what is this "real life" that you speak of? Can it be found in the Fade?
Wait...what is this "real life" that you speak of? Can it be found in the Fade?
I have a scary thought. Part of the reason why we like Solas so much is because the graphics and animations are well done. Imagine if technology gets to the point in which we can play the game as though we are really experiencing it. I mean, how many of us can get back to real life?
Spoiler
Pretty sure that they used blood magic and sacrificed thousands of elves to get to the Black City, back then. They didn't do it purely under their own power.
It's common, but I'm pretty sure it's wrong.
1. The only known ways in/out of the City are eluvian and Solas' orb, and It's pretty clear Corypheus didn't get there by eluvian last time.
2. His lack of anchor from the first breach could be explained by C not being the recipient the first time around. Even crossing off the Architect, we have six other "lost" magisters to account for. Also possible that the anchor was Corypheus trying something new to "keep" the power this time, so that if he were separated from the orb - as must have happened at some point before he was locked away - he would retain much of its power.
3. Even if you believe Solas is still Pride, he'd have to be an absolute idiot to hand his orb willingly to darkspawn!Corypheus. He may not have any power over Blight, but he certainly knows what it is and fears it.
4. As for his "missing years"- let's just say, whoever started up the Andrastean religion knew a hell of a lot more about the Fade-Reality past than any mortal 900 years ago out to have. Also, whoever put it together had some very Solas-y opinions about how society should work, which have been twisted and subverted in the modern Chantry.
Third option: Use thousands of slaves' lives to power a blood magic ritual, enter the Fade physically, reach the Golden City (Corypheus said it was already black, and though I suspect he was honest about that, he was also somewhat confused).
Corypheus only recently got the orb. I do not know that Solas actually handed it to him, so much as it was taken without resistance--in which case he might as well have given it over.
Perhaps the exchange happened within the Fade, since Corypheus did not recognize Solas.
Do you guys have any theory regarding the relation between Old Gods and Ancient elves? When it reveals what grey wardens are planning, Solas acts as if killing the remaining old gods is worse than summoning demon army for Cory. And one of his response is like "those who started the blight thought they were unleashing some great power"
I'm thinking about this because Solas obvious believe killing remaining old gods could cause something much more worse than Cory gets a demon army, while ancient tevinter worshiped old gods and tevinter and ancient elves seems to be.... Enemy?
Yep Yep. I think the Old Gods and Elven Gods are the same people.
He certainly doesn't believe in the literal Andrastean version. As for what the Maker represents... I suspect it's more like when he looks at the rift and the anchor on your hand when you first meet him and he's like, "Wow, gee, I've never seen magic like this before."
Sure, Solas. =w= Sure.
I get the feeling that the ancient elves were a lot like the dwarves in their beliefs. Paragons with a lot more immortality and a lot more magic power. There's hints of this with Ghilan'nain's story. Interesting, since they apparently both have a thing for branding their lower classes.
Also! Guys! Did we reach a decision about doing a little thread party for 2000 or 1500 pages?
Yep Yep. I think the Old Gods and Elven Gods are the same people.
Yeah, this is what I'm leaning toward. Maybe different factions, but the same thing.
Yep Yep. I think the Old Gods and Elven Gods are the same people.
I don't think that is the case, because the Old Gods are sealed away underground. The surviving ones' locations are known, and the souls of the ones the Wardens have slain are destroyed, presumably returned to the Fade or wherever they originally came from.
Could they be somehow related to the Creators? Possibly, even probably. Whatever kind of spirit or not-spirit they are, they probably all came from the same place. But, Solas also says that the Old Gods aren't the same thing as the Creators. I don't see any reason to doubt him.
Do you guys have any theory regarding the relation between Old Gods and Ancient elves? When it reveals what grey wardens are planning, Solas acts as if killing the remaining old gods is worse than summoning demon army for Cory. And one of his response is like "those who started the blight thought they were unleashing some great power"
I'm thinking about this because Solas obvious believe killing remaining old gods could cause something much more worse than Cory gets a demon army, while ancient tevinter worshiped old gods and tevinter and ancient elves seems to be.... Enemy?
A theory that's floating around is Old Gods of Tevinter = Forgotten Ones = the other half of the ancient elvish civil war, fighting the Dalish pantheon.
So the wardens are killing his people, essentially, in a misguided attempt to stop Blights. Which suggests that maybe the connection is not quite as cause-effecty as we think, or perhaps the effects of blight can be reversed.
Can someone with more background explain to me exactly what happens when a Warden takes in an OGS and sacrifices themselves? Is that just shuttling the soul back to the other side of the veil, or is it actually obliterated?
Spoiler
Edit: Either way, I don't think Solas intended for anything to happen like what happened.
Modifié par Sine_Amore, 14 décembre 2014 - 11:53 .
I don't think that is the case, because the Old Gods are sealed away underground. The surviving ones' locations are known, and the souls of the ones the Wardens have slain are destroyed, presumably returned to the Fade or wherever they originally came from.
Could they be somehow related to the Creators? Possibly, even probably. Whatever kind of spirit or not-spirit they are, they probably all came from the same place. But, Solas also says that the Old Gods aren't the same thing as the Creators. I don't see any reason to doubt him.
Lol. I'm quoting someone else. They're like Greece and Rome when it comes to gods. Same ones but a little different name and occupation. And specifically he says "There's no lore connecting the Old Gods and Elven Gods" Or something along those lines. Which there wouldn't be lore connecting them. Especially if it was "stolen" from them.
Pretty sure that they used blood magic and sacrificed thousands of elves to get to the Black City, back then. They didn't do it purely under their own power.
Third option: Use thousands of slaves' lives to power a blood magic ritual, enter the Fade physically, reach the Golden City (Corypheus said it was already black, and though I suspect he was honest about that, he was also somewhat confused).
Corypheus only recently got the orb. I do not know that Solas actually handed it to him, so much as it was taken without resistance--in which case he might as well have given it over.
Perhaps the exchange happened within the Fade, since Corypheus did not recognize Solas.
If all it took to breach the City was a crap-ton of blood, I'm pretty sure at least *one* other magister since Cory's time would have been successful. If not breaching the City itself, then at least walking physically in the Fade. The fact that nobody has suggests pretty strongly to me that Solas' orb is a necessary "key" to ripping that path open.
Can someone with more background explain to me exactly what happens when a Warden takes in an OGS and sacrifices themselves? Is that just shuttling the soul back to the other side of the veil, or is it actually obliterated?
I never saw and lore about what happens specifically, just that the archdemon dies and so does the warden. Maybe it's the result of forcing an soul on the unwilling? Tears the two apart?
If all it took to breach the City was a crap-ton of blood, I'm pretty sure at least *one* other magister since Cory's time would have been successful. If not breaching the City itself, then at least walking physically in the Fade. The fact that nobody has suggests pretty strongly to me that Solas' orb is a necessary "key" to ripping that path open.
Or that "an" orb. Solas mentions there is more than one.
Re: Immortality/godhood only happening for Female Lavellan...
Why would it only be so? Do you think that whatever Solas is doing would somehow exclude anyone else? Or do you think that this possibility would not be available to other Inquisitors? Because I think it would, even if you were Solas's hated enemy. Being able to be Solas's immortal equal would just be a side benefit for a Lady Lavellan who romanced him.
I don't think it's something he'd give up easily. I also think it's worth considering that despite having suffered tremendous loss over the years, Solas as an immortal elf is probably not psychologically "built" to handle loss the way mortals are. He's used to people being around for centuries. Romancing him and then dying of old age (or any other reason) is kind of... beyond cruel. Again, it's not that death hasn't happened, or that he hasn't seen war, etc. But I expect if he were to stay with someone, he'd want them around for a very long time. Memories aren't much when you have thousands of years to miss a person.
Solas himself says it's not a spell. He's been sleeping for a couple thousand years. I'd say it's pretty certain he's immortal.
I think Solas has not done any body-hopping. Flemeth doesn't call him by some other name; she knows him as Dread Wolf. She recognizes him. I suppose it's possible--maybe he really did possess the body of a youngster back in that Tevinter village, the body of a slave who wanted to rebel? Or maybe that's just a story he saw in the Fade, that caught his interest.
I think godhood's a bit different from going through an eluvian, though. Or immortality. Etc. I think that's something everyone would have the chance at.
I repeat, this probably will be a big issue for Solas if it isn't already--assuming that the relationship continues. Which I have a theory about...
But yes, when you're used to everyone you know living for thousands of years, it would be very difficult to cope with grief. Perhaps that's why the Solas we meet is so very sad and desperate and lonely. Someone he knows, some vestige of that world, should still be around, by his reckoning. Maybe that's why he feels he has to bring back the past, more than any other reason. Because all of those people shouldn't be dead, they're immortal!
/snip/
It had not occurred to me that Solas would not be accustomed to the death of his friends. I imagine it would be less about the death - as such things had happened before - but the decay. It wouldn't just be that Lavellan would have an accident (though maybe with her high-risk lifestyle), she could die of disease or old age. Solas isn't terribly familiar with seeing either of those in elves, since that wasn't present until after the civilization started to crumble.
So...now I'm more sad about the romance. I almost feel like pulling a Solas and having Lavellan be all, "it would be easier in the long run..." "I don't want to distract you from being a god..." so he could maybe find one of the other immortal elves. I wouldn't do it, but the temptation is there.
Oh! Sorry. Wasn't clear about the timeline there.
In this crackpot theory, the first creations of the Maker were pure spirits. Smack me if I'm wrong here, (I don't have much background in various religions aside from the general broad strokes you pick up via cultural osmosis) but it would have been very much like Judeo-Christian hosts of angels or Tolkien's Vanyar / Mayar / etc. They were servants of the Maker, obedient to the point of being pure extensions of his will. No free will of their own. Everything sang the same. This is key.
A bit more on the Tolkien side: they sing the harmonious Song of Creation, and praise him, until one of the host (Morgoth in this instance) believes he can one-up the Maker and improve upon the song. Harmony is broken.
Not so different from Judeo-Christian Lucifer, I think? Though again- smack me if not, because I really don't have a firm grounding here.
Anyway. In crackpot land, these pseudo-spirity first children of the Maker are the ancient elves. Or they become the ancient elves. Back then there aren't really firm lines dividing such things. We're still in a pre-veil world, where the Song and will is constantly shaping the world. No hunger, no cold, no desire, etc. No mortal concerns. It isn't until the veil goes up and they have to deal with existing in a permanent, unyeilding reality that the newly-mortal elves have to struggle with such things.
This is all still crazeballs, though. I haven't really poked at it for obvious holes or tried to match it up to the scraps we know.
Biblical creation narratives are kind of weird...but I get where you're coming from now. I'd forgotten that the spirits were supposed to have been created at the same time. Though, if Solas existed pre-veil, then there were certainly things like desire, rage, jealousy, etc. The elven pantheon pretty much embodies bad behavior from the stories. And the immortal elves still needed sustenance, as evidenced by the practice of brushing the potion on people's lips during uthenara. Unless there's a mid-phase where elves are still immortal but not spirits and that is where Solas came from?
I have a scary thought. Part of the reason why we like Solas so much is because the graphics and animations are well done. Imagine if technology gets to the point in which we can play the game as though we are really experiencing it. I mean, how many of us can get back to real life?
Sometimes it is so well done. Look at this:
I know exactly where that gif comes from, because I can actually read his lips/expression.
I used to think living in the Matrix would be kind of scarey but now I think it'd be kind of cool...
A theory that's floating around is Old Gods of Tevinter = Forgotten Ones = the other half of the ancient elvish civil war, fighting the Dalish pantheon.
So the wardens are killing his people, essentially, in a misguided attempt to stop Blights. Which suggests that maybe the connection is not quite as cause-effecty as we think, or perhaps the effects of blight can be reversed.
Can someone with more background explain to me exactly what happens when a Warden takes in an OGS and sacrifices themselves? Is that just shuttling the soul back to the other side of the veil, or is it actually obliterated?
The two souls obliterate each other. The tainted Old God soul jumps to the nearest tainted body to reform itself. Usually this is a darkspawn, and since they're soulless, it has no problem taking over the body. But if it jumps into a Grey Warden, which will happen if a Grey Warden kills it, the two souls collide and destroy each other. That prevents the Archdemon from reforming, killing it permanently.
I don't think that is the case, because the Old Gods are sealed away underground. The surviving ones' locations are known, and the souls of the ones the Wardens have slain are destroyed, presumably returned to the Fade or wherever they originally came from.
Could they be somehow related to the Creators? Possibly, even probably. Whatever kind of spirit or not-spirit they are, they probably all came from the same place. But, Solas also says that the Old Gods aren't the same thing as the Creators. I don't see any reason to doubt him.
That's not a contradiction. I think the actual, physical city of Arlathan is underground. Way, way underground.
I've posted this before, but one of the interesting features of the Black City is the fact that it is always the same distance away, no matter where you are in the fade.
The fade, being a reflection of the physical world, is still bound to some degree by its geography. That's why Solas has to physically move around to access new parts of it.
Now think about the center of a sphere, like the world is. It is equidistant from all points on its surface, and unreachable from that surface. You can't walk in any direction along the surface to get to the center, no matter how you try. Similarly, you can never reach the City in the Fade, no matter how you try to navigate your way toward it.
Now THIS brings up an even huger (tis a word in my mind folks) question than any Solas/God/Immortality stuff. How in the blue hell can Cass get a thick braid going all the way around her short, choppy hairdo? I mean, does she just have a circling crown of long hair for braiding and then the rest is short and choppy? How do you explain that one to a barber...?
I honestly thought the exact same thing. Maybe she is a fan of fake hair?
I'm not sure what the correct answer is as far as the elven gods/old gods goes. But it is highly suspicious that there are seven sealed elven gods and seven old gods. That can't be by accident. Then you have the comparisons between Arlathan and the Black City.
Perhaps the blight first infected some of the elven gods, driving them to madness. Solas seals them away [possibly creating the fade itself to house them], and then takes the untainted parts of their souls and puts them inside of dragons for safe keeping. He falls asleep. Unbeknownst to him, the fade allows the 'sleeping' gods to communicate, eventually seducing the magisters into breaching the black city. The blight begins anew, with the purpose of finding and finishing the corruption of the elven gods.
The only downside about the theory is that technically, most of the elven gods are now dead. It also doesn't solve the question of why Solas would want to release them, knowing that they are infected. But it is an interesting thought.
It's common, but I'm pretty sure it's wrong.
1. The only known ways in/out of the City are eluvian and Solas' orb, and It's pretty clear Corypheus didn't get there by eluvian last time.
2. His lack of anchor from the first breach could be explained by C not being the recipient the first time around. Even crossing off the Architect, we have six other "lost" magisters to account for. Also possible that the anchor was Corypheus trying something new to "keep" the power this time, so that if he were separated from the orb - as must have happened at some point before he was locked away - he would retain much of its power.
3. Even if you believe Solas is still Pride, he'd have to be an absolute idiot to hand his orb willingly to darkspawn!Corypheus. He may not have any power over Blight, but he certainly knows what it is and fears it.
4. As for his "missing years"- let's just say, whoever started up the Andrastean religion knew a hell of a lot more about the Fade-Reality past than any mortal 900 years ago out to have. Also, whoever put it together had some very Solas-y opinions about how society should work, which have been twisted and subverted in the modern Chantry.
As said by another poster, the first time it was done with multiple magisters and a tonne of slaves' blood. That's a lot of power, and it explains the lack of an Anchor. It's resources that just aren't available any more; Tevinter publicly frowns on blood magic. Plus, who wants to re-enact the actions that unleashed the Blight upon the world?
We know Solas gave him the orb, but I don't think he was even there to formally give it to Corypheus. If anything, I think it'd be more of a.. Nudge, or left it somewhere where Corypheus would obviously find it. I'm inclined to believe that he "gave" it to him thinking it would kill him. It did, too; Solas just didn't anticipate him being able to body jump. Cory is kind of a unique circumstance, and I don't suspect many would just assume that he'd hold powers similar to an Archdemon.
As for who started up Andrasteism (spelling? lol) that's not something I feel I know enough about to comment on, but I am hesitant to believe the Elven gods had anything to do with it. If they had, I think things would be a lot better for the elves than they are today.
Or that "an" orb. Solas mentions there is more than one.
True. Each of the ruling ancient elves certainly had one, and Tevinter magisters made poor imitations after Arlathan fell.
However, consider that each of the known elvish pantheon seems to have a flavor, suggesting a certain specific domain of influence or basis for their power. Mythal is heavily connected to water. Solas is heavily connected to the veil.
I'm almost certain none of the other foci would be able to do what his does.
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