153429 réponses à ce sujet

[Eivuwan]

I'm reading the Wiki entry on the Forgotten Ones and it says that both the Creators and the Forgotten Ones were seeking out a weapon. That's how Fen'Harel tricked them -- he said that he would offer them the weapon. If this version of the story is true, then the weapon they were looking for could be the blight/red lyrium.

[Mims]

Yes, I know you see what I did there.    Hey, if the description fits...

 

'Course we were wrong about Fen'harel all this time, right?  So what if the Forgotten Ones were just a bunch of sweetie-pies?  Except for the Old God of Slaves.  He's a jerk.

 

I almost wonder if the Forgotten Ones don't actually exist. They are just the remaining memories the Dalish had of what the elven gods actually were. Presumably you don't just forget all the blood sacrificing that went on. But its fairly easy to make up a double pantheon, remember the good qualities about your patron gods, and then just 'don't talk about those other guys'. 

 

Would also explain why Fen'Harel was kin to both. Technically, he was. 

[Ajna]

Is it bad to hope that it connect Solas and her together and she won't die until he does?

Probably really bad for all the people who hate him...

[Eivuwan]

There's still time! Even if we don't go to Arlathan, I do hope that location makes it into DLC. It looks really cool. I can just imagine some sort of awesome, underground water ruins. 

 

And also implement swimming mechanics

[Mims]

And also implement swimming mechanics

 

/KOTOR 1 flashbacks.

 

I take it back. I take it back!

[madrar]

I really don't think that he sealed them away underground though, unless those are the Forbidden Ones.  If they had been... then I guess sooner or later someone's going to have to break the bad news to Solas, that their very souls have been destroyed?

 

And whether the Black City is Arlathan or connected to the sealed-away gods at all, it's impossible to say.  We're told that Arlathan is deep underground, but there's concept art that seems to have been meant to be in DA:I of ruins of Arlathan... and it's very much not underground.

 

I do want to know about the Black City, though.  Perhaps it would be interesting if we could go there, but if my theory about it having been sealed in the Fade because it was already blighted (and the blight gradually grew until it blackened, and Corypheus et al contracted the blight there, rather than causing it) is true, then it probably isn't a place we'd want to visit.  Not without some sort of protection from the Blight, or the ability to somehow cure said Blight.

 

Oh, he's painfully aware of what the Wardens have been forced to do to stop Blights.  Talking with him about it is one of the few times he loses his cool and gets angry, which is a definite more-than-a-hedge-mage hint, if your Lavellan needs one.  

 

Re Arlathan: If you're talking about the concept art I think you're talking about, it looks very much like a city in the process of sinking / being swallowed up to me.

 

The fact that he can't bring Lavellan where he's going is, to me, the biggest clue that he's still hellbent on visiting/opening Arlathan at the end of the game, regardless of romance status.  It's not just "I can't ask you to do this"- she literally can't come with him because even limited exposure would corrupt a mortal.  

[Cosmia]

Is it bad to hope that it connect Solas and her together and she won't die until he does? 

There are a lot of questions surrounding the exact nature of the anchor and the Inquisitor that I'm not 100% sure about, even beyond Solas x Lavellan 4eva. Now that I think about it, I feel like Solas and the other mages maybe should have made a bigger deal about the fact that the Inquisitor has the ability to open and close rifts to the fade? Like, yes they were like woah!! Cool! Save us! Fascinating! But what possible effects could that have on her in the long term? She's a walking portal summoner that in many situations knows basically nothing about the Fade. Were these things answered and I wasn't paying attention? There could be so many consequences on health, life span, etc. What if she becomes senile later on and loses the ability to look after herself? Gosh.

[wildannie]

Eh, I mean there are so many ways to look at this. You can also say that if you took the teary options, Solas wouldn't want to get back with you because he thinks you are too attached to him to be an equal partner or something. I don't think it really matters which option you pick.

 

Yup,  tbh If this was the case I wouldn't be bothered which options led to each outcome,  I just love choices and hate, hate hate being railroaded... I'm a control freak! can't cope when my choices are lost.

[lapsi4ka]

I was reading the thread and I'm willing to share with you guys. I am on my second and third parallel playthroughs and I've just made to Skyhold to my  beloved fade-tongue husbando spirit son Cole about templars and stuff. Cole can not lie!He is my son!

 

But first things first.  There is my BIG BIG BIG research on the matter of "singing" with dialogs and other usefull stuff under spoilers:

Spoiler

 

Cole: You don't like dead people, Cassandra.

Cassandra: Was that a question? Am I supposed to?

Cole: The ones in the dark city. Wrapped in cloths that smell like sunflowers. You hated the singing.

Cassandra: Ah, the Grand Necropolis. Yes, I never saw the point.

Cole: Maybe dead people like the singing.

Cassandra: I would rather not think about that.

 

1) Dead people like singing. We know that dead people also go beyond the Veil to the Fade, right? Except for darkspawn, who - surprise (!) -  hear a song of Archedemon.

 

Spoiler

 

  Dorian: Do you need to eat, Cole? Or sleep?

  Cole: I thought I had to. But I don't. The Old Songs can pull me.

  Dorian: That's something. I don't know what, but it's something.

 

2) Spirits hear the Old Song and it sustains them. Here a was going to reveal WHY Solas doesn't like tea, but no. He just didn't try many sorts of tea

3) Magic is a sort if a song

Spoiler

Dorian: Cole, do you hear magic?

Cole: Yes. I do. Don't you?

Dorian: Spells sometimes makes a sound but... I don't think we hear the same thing.

Cole: Don't your spells whisper things to you? What is and could be, music in the mind of strange, far away places?

Dorian: Not lately.

Cole: Then we don't hear the same thing.

 

5)  Every mage create his own "song" (and not even mage as it seems - Compassion came to Cole as Faith came to Cassandra)

Spoiler

  Cole:Do you feel spirits when you cast a spell?

  Cole: Bits of them push through with your magic, tiny, a wisp of a wisp, free before falling back. They pool around you, water in a cup, defined, deafened, hearing only your song.

  Cole: They want to skate, scintillate on skin. You made them them. Their maker.

  Vivienne: Now. I need. A bath.

 

So it means in this terms that every magic - is a sort of unique song. Even Archdemon's one. And here I will mention... lyrium.

 

It's known that the lyrium sings. Red lyrium, blue lyrium - doesn't really matter. There is a thread on reddit where someone mentioned that the word have connections to "lyrics" (CHANTry, CHANT of Light,  enCHANTer - see what they did here? I am in shock! I didn't notice it before. Oh Solas, you've made me a lore nerd =.= ). I remember someone at some point of time (Solas,I just know it was you) said that some spells took centuries to finish - that make sense if they are a song. Which led me to a conclusion that lyrium can easily be a spell, but it contains in itself a raw magical energy and thus can be transformed in runes, enchantments, potions, etc. In this case Cole's when everything sang the same has a very specific meaning and really says that magic was in the wolrd like an air.

 

So I've re-watched a Cole's talk about templars and what the heck?!

 

Spoiler

Cole: They are heavy with  forgotten songs, like Varric.

 

Cole: They feel older than they look. They've been changed and their bodies are incomplete now. The lyrium helps but their bodies always want to connect to something older. Bigger than they are. That's why they block magic. They reach for that thing and magic has no room to come. Like when I listen to Varric.

 

Cole: I like traveling with dwarves.

Varric: Glad to hear it, kid.

Cole: You're quiet, but the old song still echoes inside, almost like templars.

 

It seems to me that this last bit about dwarven thingy is the same thing as what templars are going through - the lost connection to a song, which in templars has to be replaced with song that lyrium gives. Lyrium can easily drive mad others though. Does it mean that human hear a different song? Does it mean that elves hear something else? Or does it mean that they actually don't hear anything like it?

 

BUT! "Templars are heavy with FORGOTTEN and OLD", you say so, Cole, huh? Is this a reference to "The Forgotten Ones," the enemies of the elven pantheon? Or other Old Gods? And is it truly a coincidence that  Dumat was called  "the Dragon of Silence"? (damn, Bioware! HOW COULD YOU! Not a dragon of Stabbity or Shiny Pointy Stick, but Silence as opposite to the sound, chant, song?)

 

Want to hear more interesting stuff regarding the dwarven Song?  Here is something from wiki:

 

Spoiler

 

They refer to the Stone as "she". Being practical, the dwarves venerate her, but do not worship her as a god. The Stone is believed to be a living and a shifting entity with a will that surrounds and guides the dwarves. She supports them, shelters them, and offers them the most priceless gifts of the earth, such as ore, gems, and lyrium. But she is not pure, for she bears a corruption as old as balance

 

Personally at this point of time I started to believe in possibility that there can be a hand of some ancient spirit entity as in case with Dalish elves. I've seen some speculation here in who can that be And I agree on the fact that it is strangely alike the bond between Elven Sentinels and Mythal. Yet there is still possibility that it is not someone from elven pantheon, but from forgotten/old ones (as the song suddenly stopped and they are trapped):

 

Spoiler

Cole: Do you write to reach across? To hear the song that was sundered?

Varric: I'm... not sure what that even means, kid, but probably?

Why the song was sundered? Why did dwarves lost their connection to the song? Why elves lost their immortality? Why did red lyrium appeared only now?

I am not sure whether lyrium was created  (and maybe it is someone's spell from Elvhenan times) or it predates the elven culture itself, but what we know so far  is that something beyond that side it crawling its way back to the world.

 

Spoiler

Cole: It [Red lyrium] eats you inside, until you're nothing. They [templars] hear a different song. The song behind the door old whispers want to open. They are dead and dark and done.

 

Lyrium can be seen in the Fade and in the real world. So I believe that corruption of red lyrium began to spread so quickly only because that something or someone felt that it is working on Bartrand and Meredith. It is said corruption in lyrium is much more like as the one the darkspawn has so this connection work both sides - you see them, they see you.  And yes, Felassan and some shady thing in the Fade.

 

Spoiler

Cole: He hated old doors. Some doors need to be shut

Spoiler

Cole: They sleep, masked in the mirror, hiding, hurting and to wake them...

After some consideration, my opinion is that Solas does not want to release elven gods, he wants to protect his people from that crawling thing (which can be those elven gods, btw). He always wanted to. It feels like he believed that a group of  individuals (he and other gods) can work towards a better world, but in the end they all had flaws. What if  he had to seal other elven gods somewhere to protect them from the corruption like it was with Dumat and others? We know that Dark Ritual was to get a soul of god which if free from corruption (and it worked - Kieran is fine as he can be). And now there is a place where Elvhen yet linger, there is a place for Abelas and people to be protected. He was said to wander in the Fade in Dalish legends and keep those things locked away. Maybe that's why he needed his orb? He need his powers. But... ah well... Mythal will help him now.

 

But i wish I could too.

 

*crying*

[Brass_Buckles]

Oh, he's painfully aware of what the Wardens have been forced to do to stop Blights.  Talking with him about it is one of the few times he loses his cool and gets angry, which is a definite more-than-a-hedge-mage hint, if your Lavellan needs one.  

 

Re Arlathan: If you're talking about the concept art I think you're talking about, it looks very much like a city in the process of sinking / being swallowed up to me.

 

The fact that he can't bring Lavellan where he's going is, to me, the biggest clue that he's still hellbent on visiting/opening Arlathan at the end of the game, regardless of romance status.  It's not just "I can't ask you to do this"- she literally can't come with him because even limited exposure would corrupt a mortal.  

 

I'm not sure if he's heading to Arlathan, the Black City, or even some heretofore unknown area accessible only by eluvians.  But he "wouldn't wish this path on an enemy," so that's why he doesn't even offer the option to Lavellan.  Which is crummy of him, especially if it's because he thinks she'd willingly tag along.  She might also not, after all; most Inquisitors would feel they had to keep leading the Inquisition, despite Solas leaving. The decision should have been hers to make as well, not his alone.  I wish he would have actually discussed it.  Perhaps even told a bit more of the truth?  Not the "Hey by the way I'm Fen'harel" bit, but, you know, the "I have to go do something very important because I think it will help the People" bit.

[Birdy]

I'm not sure if he's heading to Arlathan, the Black City, or even some heretofore unknown area accessible only by eluvians.  But he "wouldn't wish this path on an enemy," so that's why he doesn't even offer the option to Lavellan.  Which is crummy of him, especially if it's because he thinks she'd willingly tag along.  She might also not, after all; most Inquisitors would feel they had to keep leading the Inquisition, despite Solas leaving. The decision should have been hers to make as well, not his alone.  I wish he would have actually discussed it.  Perhaps even told a bit more of the truth?  Not the "Hey by the way I'm Fen'harel" bit, but, you know, the "I have to go do something very important because I think it will help the People" bit.

I think the orb breaking changed a lot of his plans.

[madrar]

I almost wonder if the Forgotten Ones don't actually exist. They are just the remaining memories the Dalish had of what the elven gods actually were. Presumably you don't just forget all the blood sacrificing that went on. But its fairly easy to make up a double pantheon, remember the good qualities about your patron gods, and then just 'don't talk about those other guys'. 

 

Would also explain why Fen'Harel was kin to both. Technically, he was. 

 

((@_@))

 

Hee.   I love all you crazy theory people, even if I feel like I need ten pages of fluffy shmuff to clear my head now.  

 

There was clearly plenty of infighting among the pantheon, so technically... yeah.  It's possible the civil war wasn't so much two sides as every leader for themselves with shifting alliances that got sorted out into black and white after the fact.

 

Ugh, ok, gotta stop thinking.  Bring on the fluff.   Anyone stumbled over a particularly good fanfic lately?  TwT

[Cosmia]

Did you guys see this? Extracts of the murals Solas does!

[RebbyWriter]

Can't stop laughing. http://solaspls.tumb...itordorianpavus

[arelenriel]

 

That is definitely possible! I think it makes sense that if Arlathan is the Black City, Solas probably did not take the time to evacuate it. How could he? If he did, then the gods would have been tipped off to his plan. 

 

If we go by that logic...well, the grey wardens have killed off five old gods/elven gods. Perhaps Solas thinks that he is strong enough to keep them at bay on his own, or with Mythal's assistance? Or perhaps he's already located what could potentially be a cure, and the only way to get it to work is by accessing the Black City. 

 

@Brass: [I fail at double quoting, my apologies!]

 

Is this the concept art with the water? Because I actually think it is underground. It has spires that are above ground, but it looks like the whole thing has been sunken. With stairs leading down towards it. 

If you go read the Bioware Dragon Age Timeline it does say that Arlathan was sunk by the Tevinter Imperium using blood magic and that the people who survived the sinking of the city were enslaved (which somehow tells me that it was the remaining nobility of Arlathan that was enslaved and the Keepers really are their descendants- after all in most great disasters like that (e.g. Pompei, Titanic) it is the poor that are left to die while the rich have access to means of escape- except this time when they got off the boat slavers were waiting

[Brass_Buckles]

There are a lot of questions surrounding the exact nature of the anchor and the Inquisitor that I'm not 100% sure about, even beyond Solas x Lavellan 4eva. Now that I think about it, I feel like Solas and the other mages maybe should have made a bigger deal about the fact that the Inquisitor has the ability to open and close rifts to the fade? Like, yes they were like woah!! Cool! Save us! Fascinating! But what possible effects could that have on her in the long term? She's a walking portal summoner that in many situations knows basically nothing about the Fade. Were these things answered and I wasn't paying attention? There could be so many consequences on health, life span, etc. What if she becomes senile later on and loses the ability to look after herself? Gosh.

 

Portal summoner...

 

Makes me think I should name my Inquisitor Chel.  And Corypheus is really GLaDOS...

 

However, you're right.  We're told early on that the mark is killing the Inquisitor.  Solas stabilizes it, but we're not ever told that it won't still eventually kill the Inquisitor.  It could also grant immortality, because that's a lot of power the Inquisitor absorbed, especially at the end when she takes all of the rest of the power of the orb (presumably?). 

 

And that power is why I think Solas is pretty much guaranteed to come back.  Whether we'll get romance resolution out of that or not is anyone's guess.

[Birdy]

Probably really bad for all the people who hate him...

Bah, what do they matter, their Quizzy get immortality.

 

There are a lot of questions surrounding the exact nature of the anchor and the Inquisitor that I'm not 100% sure about, even beyond Solas x Lavellan 4eva. Now that I think about it, I feel like Solas and the other mages maybe should have made a bigger deal about the fact that the Inquisitor has the ability to open and close rifts to the fade? Like, yes they were like woah!! Cool! Save us! Fascinating! But what possible effects could that have on her in the long term? She's a walking portal summoner that in many situations knows basically nothing about the Fade. Were these things answered and I wasn't paying attention? There could be so many consequences on health, life span, etc. What if she becomes senile later on and loses the ability to look after herself? Gosh.

Well Solas asks if the anchor has changed the Quizzy since getting it.  I think it has, a lot. But we can't really tell because there's no origin cutscenes, which thing about it, it was probably intentional that way.  I know some people have mentioned it and I can see it. The dialogue options are all about the same, or course there's still the flavor of the different kinds but they all seem kinda mellow to me. (This from doing a Gentle Quizzy to Aggressive Quizzy)  Maybe that was intentional, I don't know.

And I think everyone was focused on the immediate threat at the moment not how the Quizzy was doing beyond closing the rifts.  Also I remember one of the companions saying that the Quizzy could only close the rifts and Cory could open them. I think that was Cass.  But it might not be common knowledge Quizzy can open rifts.

[Birdy]

 

 

Ugh, ok, gotta stop thinking.  Bring on the fluff.   Anyone stumbled over a particularly good fanfic lately?  TwT

I DID!! Omg is it awesome!    

http://archiveofouro...g/works/2760119

[Tielis]

That's not a contradiction.   I think the actual, physical city of Arlathan is underground.  Way, way underground.  

 

I've posted this before, but one of the interesting features of the Black City is the fact that it is always the same distance away, no matter where you are in the fade.

 

The fade, being a reflection of the physical world, is still bound to some degree by its geography.  That's why Solas has to physically move around to access new parts of it.  

 

Now think about the center of a sphere, like the world is.  It is equidistant from all points on its surface, and unreachable from that surface.  You can't walk in any direction along the surface to get to the center, no matter how you try.  Similarly, you can never reach the City in the Fade, no matter how you try to navigate your way toward it.

 

Y'know what comes from underground?  Lyrium, darkspawn, the taint, and Old Gods/Archdemons.  I think you're on to something here.

 

The Fade is truly a reflection of the physical world?

[dangereusegirl]

*comes out of lurk mode* Greetings everyone!

 

Just a few general thoughts:

-With several DA fans that I've talked to, Solas was the big surprise for them. Myself included. I went into my first playthrough fully intending to romance Iron Bull or Blackwall. Then fade kisses happened, and I was a goner.

-The ending...just, wow. I'm in the camp that Solas took Flemythal's essence (or power or soul or whatever) from her. Which quite honestly is a terrifying thought.

-*waits anxiously for a chance to give Lavellan a happy ending*

 

My contributions to things:

 

A Solas/Lavellan playlist: link

 

Aaaand, my Lavellan, Caer (named before i found out they used the name for some of the castles/forts you have to take back):

 

[Mims]

If you go read the Bioware Dragon Age Timeline it does say that Arlathan was sunk by the Tevinter Imperium using blood magic and that the people who survived the sinking of the city were enslaved (which somehow tells me that it was the remaining nobility of Arlathan that was enslaved and the Keepers really are their descendants- after all in most great disasters like that (e.g. Pompei, Titanic) it is the poor that are left to die while the rich have access to means of escape- except this time when they got off the boat slavers were waiting

 

Interesting! That does fit in really well with this concept art then:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Also, those frescos are amazing! A lot easier to see that that final scene does appear to be a dead dragon, rather than a really large foot. 

[Eivuwan]

Crackpot theory time. What if Solas' plan somehow involves stopping the blight? This would tie it back nicely to DAO. Maybe the cure to the blight somehow invokes the fade and the blight is caused by the unnatural separation of the spirit world from the real world. It seems that a lot of important characters are heading West. Solas is going west, Hawke/Wardens are heading west to Weisshaupt. Maybe Solas needs to enter the fade at a place where the original event (blight/his mistake/sealing of gods/implementation of the veil) happened so that he can reverse it. I guess we are going to Anderfels and Tevintar in the next game.

[Eivuwan]

Y'know what comes from underground?  Lyrium, darkspawn, the taint, and Old Gods/Archdemons.  I think you're on to something here.

 

The Fade is truly a reflection of the physical world?

 

Imagine if the fade is the true world and the physical world is the matrix. *Tries to imagine it and gets a headache.*

[madrar]

I was reading the thread and I'm willing to share with you guys. I am on my second and third parallel playthroughs and I've just made to Skyhold to my  beloved fade-tongue husbando spirit son Cole about templars and stuff. Cole can not lie!He is my son!

 

But first things first.  There is my BIG BIG BIG research on the matter of "singing" with dialogs and other usefull stuff under spoilers:

 

[snip massive amounts of theory]

 

 

I'm all out of likes, so please accept this theory-face as a poor substitute:  

 

I'm with you on 90% of this.  The earliest Dalish creation myths describe the first phase of creation as coming from the interplay of two primal, Titan-esque entities: the sun and the earth, and lyrium is referred to in several contexts as the "blood of the earth".  As posted elsewhere, it's possible that lyrium is the physical embodiment of the original "Song of the Maker", so to speak.  

 

Anyway.   I should look up the full details, but if I remember correctly, in the tale, Elger'nan casts the sun (his "father") down, and only relents when Mythal rises from the sea to intercede and reconcile the two.  After this, the sun, the earth, Mythal and Elger'nan join forces to recreate the world.  

 

Obviously, being Dalish, this is the sanitized happy-family "everything Mythal and Elger'nan do is for the best" version.

 

It's possible that trying to create something on their own introduced dissonance into the original Song, inadvertently spawning the creation of red lyrium and blight.   

 

*rests head on keyboard*   Ok.   Too much theory.  Not enough fluff.

[madrar]

If you go read the Bioware Dragon Age Timeline it does say that Arlathan was sunk by the Tevinter Imperium using blood magic and that the people who survived the sinking of the city were enslaved (which somehow tells me that it was the remaining nobility of Arlathan that was enslaved and the Keepers really are their descendants- after all in most great disasters like that (e.g. Pompei, Titanic) it is the poor that are left to die while the rich have access to means of escape- except this time when they got off the boat slavers were waiting

 

Interesting-  but keep in mind that's the Tevinter version of history, which has been pretty thoroughly discredited at this point.