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[RynJ]

Thanks, I needed some cuteness.

 

'Cause I just thought of something even worse implied by the theory that I wrote up above...

 

The implication, if Cole's addressing Lavellan, is that up until recently, Solas did not consider Lavellan real.  What does that mean??????

 

Could this have some kind of meaning like... ancient elven nobles/gods just... figured they were owed love/smooches/etc?  Was his "Ar lath ma" not really serious?

 

 

Aaaaaagh, kitten hugs please????

 

Based on how Solas seems concerned for even the peasants we come across during DAI and approves of helping them, I'd say that isn't true. He seems to think about the "little people", as Sera would call them. I really don't think they'd give a love interest such a messed up view of Lavellan and people in general. His ar lath ma is serious, I'm pretty sure. If he didn't love her or thought her beneath him, I don't think he would have said it. That doesn't seem Solas' style.

 

It's easy to assume the worst about him, given the reveal, but I find myself feeling defensive of him all the time. I just don't imagine they'd make him a romance option if it was really that unhealthy of a relationship/thought process behind it. Besides, Solas is the one that is adamant that the "gods" that were known aren't really "gods". He seems to try and humble himself a lot. 

[scintilla]

... After posting that horrible theory about why Solas ditched Lavellan with that look of horror on his face, I really need to think of something happy...

 

The beautiful battlemage mail works quite nicely.  You know, I never found schematics for it, and the mabari in the Wastes didn't sell it like some people said it did.

 

Also, was anyone else severely disappointed/annoyed that most of the end-game tier 3 cloth and metals were hot pink and/or violet?  I mean, okay, sure it's a great prank to pull on certain people, but there are plenty of people who aren't like that who don't have any real love for pink and purple, either.  (More green!  MORE GREEN!)

 

So I'm no good at comforting and have pretty much had all of those horrible thoughts about how the Solas/Lavellan relationship could be not only tragic but awful on top of it.

 

Battlemage mail is my favorite for him. It has less armor but he can live with that to be pretty. I wasn't too worried about his survival, he's suspiciously good at not dying in my game. Cole on the other hand...

 

Stormheart might fulfill your green needs? I am mostly amused at how colorful tier 3 materials are, apparently BioWare is in favor of everyone looking silly at endgame.

[Kittn]

So it is official, ya'll. Solas broke the game for me. He nuked the fridge. I can't play it anymore as any other character except my Lavellan. I had settled on waiting for a patch to fix all of the glitches and bullshizzle that had ruined what was supposed to be my perfect playthrough. I decided, "Oh, I'll roll up a ginger dwarfie and goof off with the Bull and see what happens. It'll be different. It'll be fun."

 

With great conviction, I muddled through the chargen until I was happy with my new archer dwarf, oh so creatively named Kitty. Made my way towards the breach with Cassandra. Had fun shooting some demons. Gathered a few elfroots and came at last to the first rift. "I got this." I thought, firing away at stuff. There was our dread wolf pew pewing bad guys and I was ok with it. Until he grabbed my dwarf's arm and pointed her palm to the sky.

 

And...

 

I promptly exited back out to the menu and reloaded my Chesha save. *headdesk*

[scintilla]

It's easy to assume the worst about him, given the reveal, but I find myself feeling defensive of him all the time. I just don't imagine they'd make him a romance option if it was really that unhealthy of a relationship/thought process behind it. Besides, Solas is the one that is adamant that the "gods" that were known aren't really "gods". He seems to try and humble himself a lot. 

 

I said once that I think springing SURPRISE ABUSER on people would be pretty wrong of BioWare. I honestly don't think they'd put in a romance that was that problematic either. Especially not Patrick Weekes.  This is all assuming they'd realize it was problematic though.

 

Aaaaaagh, kitten hugs please????

 

[zambixi]

/snip/

 

Edited to clarify what precisely invokes my horror at this thought:  Basically, if Solas is rejecting Lavellan's "reality" as an Elvhen, I am worried that he's saying she's so far beneath him as to be beneath his concern... even though he is in love with her.  And because this makes her less valuable, he is letting go, despite how much pain it causes him--and her, which also hurts him--so that he can continue with his plans to help the People Who Matter to Him.  And if I am right, that... puts him in all kinds of WRONG, and I have trouble feeling badly for him because the only reason he'd feel badly for himself is because he fell for someone he really shouldn't have--even though he initially encouraged it.  So I hope I'm not right...

 

Aaaagh, comfort me please Solas thread, tell me something positive, tell me I can't be right, think of any theory you please but tell me I can't possibly be right...

 

I think he can both be protecting her and putting her below his duty - the two aren't mutually exclusive in my mind. He has Something Important he needs to do. I have no concrete ideas about what this is (I think it has something to do with the Veil or the Creators, but some of his lines muddy the waters, and it really doesn't matter for this post), but to Solas it is more important than himself, his needs, and Lavellan's needs. He personally loves her, but he feels bound to his duty - whatever that is - and it is not something that he would feel right about discarding. If he were to stay with Lavellan, I think he'd see it as a selfish decision, and a betrayal of the People. He's the only firefighter in town, his wife is having a baby, and a school full of children is burning down; leaving his wife to put out the fire isn't what he wants to do, but it's what he signed up for and no one else is going to do it.

 

Now, he could take Lavellan with him, but this Something Important is dangerous. Or it requires Solas to go/do something Lavellan cannot do (i.e. walk in the fade without being asleep or physically in the fade). Or it would require that Lavellan give up something. The actual price is not important, what is important is that there is a Price and presumably it is a high one. Solas loves Lavellan and knows that she loves him, and trusts him, and would go with him if he allowed her to because of it. At the same time, she cannot possibly know the Price of going with him because she does not have his knowledge. While I don't personally think that should matter, Solas clearly did, and so he breaks it off and spares Lavellan from paying the Price of being with him. She is hurt and confused in the short run, but in the long run she can find happiness.

 

And it's that last part that is important. I don't think Solas would have broken it off if his intention was anything other than to allow Lavellan to find happiness. He's not very good at letting go of things, and I think the only way he could make himself give up the relationship is if he believed that the alternative - Lavellan moving on - was preferable. He could use her for whatever plan he has: the anchor has power, she has influence as the Inquisitor, and she is a powerful mage/warrior/rogue in her own right. He could have stayed, manipulated her, and made her work for his ends. He could even have told her "I have to go, but I will be back," just to keep her on the line in case he wants to use her later. But he sets her free. She is out of his control. She could go and do something that is 100% against his plans now, if fate pulled her that way. I think he loves her though, and his overriding goal in breaking up with her is to give her the freedom to be happy.

 

Last part: I don't think the Something Important is going to be catastrophic. Or I don't think Solas thinks it will be. We know from what Morrigan said that the Eluvians connect to other worlds. Solas could have easily trapped or persuaded Lavellan to stay in one of those other worlds if Thedas was going to somehow be compromised. I think he thinks that even if whatever change he's trying to bring will be difficult, Lavellan will survive it. I have a really difficult time imagining that he has suddenly become some sort of sociopath willing to sacrifice all of the people he has grown close to for Something Important. If he becomes that in the future I'm going to be pretty disappointed.

 

_{Now I'm thinking back to a BW panel where Weekes said he wanted to make the Quarian "objectively wrong" because the player naturally would want to side with them vs. the geth. I wonder if something similar will happen with Solas, where he is "objectively in the wrong," but not so far in renegade land as to be unsympathetic. OR he will be "objectively right" even though his actions are something one would naturally want to resist. Weekes seems to like those sorts of moral grey areas, and he is really good at writing them.}

Modifié par zambixi, 20 décembre 2014 - 02:23 .

[RNDMstuff]

If it turned out that she really had been placed in the Dread Wolf's body, then that would mean he really is some kind of spirit/soul running around without a body.  Or else, he is sharing a body with the man who was born in the village that he said he was born in.

 

... Hard to say really.

 

Was doing some thinking today on the Solas/Lavellan relationship.  Specifically about how eager he was to start it (that Fade kiss!), and about what the dialogue between he and Cole might mean.

 

"You became real.  That means the others could, too.  It changes everything, but it can't."  Something like that, yes?  Now, if he means Solas, then it could imply he is some kind of Fade entity that made itself real.  If it means Lavellan... well I was thinking that makes it not just all kinds of levels of sad, but also all kinds of levels of wrong.

 

So, Lavellan "became real."  She began to matter, became what he considers "Elvhen."  If the others could, too, why is that something that can't be allowed to happen?  Is he rejecting her "reality" so that he can continue on his set path?  Is he so set on making things the way they were that he'd tell himself that Lavellan is just like the others, after all, or that he'd sacrifice her for what he sees as the greater good?

 

This is Solas, he's open-minded, he's willing to admit when he's wrong.  Except this time.  Why?

 

My only answer for it is that he misses everyone else he knew from his own time so much that Lavellan just cannot help his loneliness, nor can anyone else in the Inquisition.  He dislikes the state of the world so much that he'll tell himself Lavellan isn't really real, just to be able to make himself do what he feels he has to do.

 

And yet, that doesn't fit, because... he wouldn't wish his path on an enemy, much less someone he deeply cares for.  So he tells Cole.  That line implies he's protecting those he became close to.  Are they "real" to him to deserve protection?

 

The more I thought about it, the less sense it really makes.  Either he's protecting her, or he's sacrificing her for the greater good, and I can't tell which it is.  Perhaps it's both, though, because if she doesn't know, she can't intervene.  Then she can survive whatever comes next... but she won't be "real" so their love can never be, at least as far as Solas is concerned.

 

And then there's his line about "in another world..."

 

Does he feel they are so far apart?  Maybe it really is that he's rejecting her as "real Elvhen?"  And if she's not Elvhen, he can't be with her.  And she doesn't matter in the grand scheme of his plan, no matter how much he loves her.  That is not just horribly wrong-headed and closed-minded of him, it's also terribly, terribly sad... because we can tell that he does truly love her.  Why would he think that anything that could potentially cause dire harm to his loved one would be a good idea?  How could he suddenly be looking at her as so much less than him, when he'd spent so much time becoming close to her?

 

Yes, he said he thought it would be unkind to continue their relationship, in the balcony scene.  So we knew it probably wasn't going to end well (or, well, I figured, and yet hoped it would anyway).

 

I can't help thinking that whichever meaning it holds, that banter of Cole's is key to understanding why Solas left.  I don't think any of us have entirely hit on the why of it, for all of our guessing about his protecting Lavellan or putting duty first.  I really, truly hope I'm not right about it, or that if I am, he's able to work past what he's feeling... that would just leave such a bad taste in my mouth.

 

Edited to clarify what precisely invokes my horror at this thought:  Basically, if Solas is rejecting Lavellan's "reality" as an Elvhen, I am worried that he's saying she's so far beneath him as to be beneath his concern... even though he is in love with her.  And because this makes her less valuable, he is letting go, despite how much pain it causes him--and her, which also hurts him--so that he can continue with his plans to help the People Who Matter to Him.  And if I am right, that... puts him in all kinds of WRONG, and I have trouble feeling badly for him because the only reason he'd feel badly for himself is because he fell for someone he really shouldn't have--even though he initially encouraged it.  So I hope I'm not right...

 

Aaaagh, comfort me please Solas thread, tell me something positive, tell me I can't be right, think of any theory you please but tell me I can't possibly be right...

I'm kind of new to Solas romance thread, but I was reading a lot on the point. And as sad as it sounds, your explanation seems the closest to me. Though my Lavellan was smitten by him from the very beginning, something was keeping me from pursuing the romance... At this point I am still to finish it yet, though I know very well what happens in the end.

Despite the fact that I find Solas very attractive, I would not call him open-minded at all. He seems to be sometimes, revealing those new things about the Fade, spirits, giving you this whole new perspective on elven gods and such. But he is set in his beliefs. Those things are new to us, but not to him. He is actually hard to accept new things I think, as well as others'opinions... Just my impression. So I find your theory absolutely believable and very in his character. Though I really really like him since the moment he grabbed my elf's hand)

[Brass_Buckles]

Based on how Solas seems concerned for even the peasants we come across during DAI and approves of helping them, I'd say that isn't true. He seems to think about the "little people", as Sera would call them. I really don't think they'd give a love interest such a messed up view of Lavellan and people in general. His ar lath ma is serious, I'm pretty sure. If he didn't love her or thought her beneath him, I don't think he would have said it. That doesn't seem Solas' style.

 

It's easy to assume the worst about him, given the reveal, but I find myself feeling defensive of him all the time. I just don't imagine they'd make him a romance option if it was really that unhealthy of a relationship/thought process behind it. Besides, Solas is the one that is adamant that the "gods" that were known aren't really "gods". He seems to try and humble himself a lot. 

 

You're right about the little people deal, but I can't help but think that caring about their welfare doesn't necessarily mean he feels it appropriate to romance them... and what if by being "real" he means like himself, existing both in the Fade and reality at the same time?

 

... I don't even know anymore.

 

My preferred interpretation is that Solas himself is some kind of spirit-become-real, but context indicates that Cole is talking to the Inquisitor.  By "real" maybe it's someone he cares about, not anything horrible?  Like, by getting to know her, she's no longer just some hazy dream of the modern era, and he might have to acknowledge that everyone else in it is a real person, too, not a theoretical one?

 

Anyway...

 

On elven gods.  I think Solas may be very wrong about them being just nobles or powerful mages.  I wonder if that's what Fen'harel is, but Morrigan comments that Mythal/Flemeth is something much more than what she originally believed (an abomination, a spirit, etc).  While Solas doesn't tend to give bad information, Morrigan's usually pretty reliable on the information front, as well--when she chooses to share.

 

So, what if Fen'harel is simply an elf who achieved the power of a god, whereas the others are... something else?  It would explain why he stands on the outskirts, neither a Creator nor a Forgotten One.  It would also explain why he doesn't believe they are anything more than he is, because in his realm of experience, such abilities are attainable by an elven man, without anything supernatural going on other than magic.

 

Conversely, what if Solas/Fen'harel is the only one who is something akin to a godlike being, and the others are the ones who are nobles or powerful mages?  Except it's pretty clear that is not the case with Mythal.

 

... Maybe the Dread Wolf was playing a trick on us, y'all.  I'm not saying he did so maliciously, but maybe he thinks the gods need to be humbled in general?  Or that obeisance need not be paid?  Perhaps when he said that, he was considering not releasing them from their prisons?

 

And what if the gods that Solas wants to free aren't the Creators, but the Old Gods?  There are so many hints that the gods were becoming blighted, but we know that the Old Gods aren't, unless the darkspawn can find them and taint them.  Maybe the Dalish got that wrong, too, and the Forgotten Ones are the good guys in this story, because the Creators all got tainted.

[Sifr]

 

So, what if Fen'harel is simply an elf who achieved the power of a god, whereas the others are... something else?  It would explain why he stands on the outskirts, neither a Creator nor a Forgotten One.  It would also explain why he doesn't believe they are anything more than he is, because in his realm of experience, such abilities are attainable by an elven man, without anything supernatural going on other than magic.

 

Hmm... this theory actually has some weight to it, since Ghilan'nain apparently was one of the People who rose to become one of the Gods.

[zambixi]

You're right about the little people deal, but I can't help but think that caring about their welfare doesn't necessarily mean he feels it appropriate to romance them... and what if by being "real" he means like himself, existing both in the Fade and reality at the same time?

 

... I don't even know anymore.

 

My preferred interpretation is that Solas himself is some kind of spirit-become-real, but context indicates that Cole is talking to the Inquisitor.  By "real" maybe it's someone he cares about, not anything horrible?  Like, by getting to know her, she's no longer just some hazy dream of the modern era, and he might have to acknowledge that everyone else in it is a real person, too, not a theoretical one?

 

Anyway...

 

On elven gods.  I think Solas may be very wrong about them being just nobles or powerful mages.  I wonder if that's what Fen'harel is, but Morrigan comments that Mythal/Flemeth is something much more than what she originally believed (an abomination, a spirit, etc).  While Solas doesn't tend to give bad information, Morrigan's usually pretty reliable on the information front, as well--when she chooses to share.

 

So, what if Fen'harel is simply an elf who achieved the power of a god, whereas the others are... something else?  It would explain why he stands on the outskirts, neither a Creator nor a Forgotten One.  It would also explain why he doesn't believe they are anything more than he is, because in his realm of experience, such abilities are attainable by an elven man, without anything supernatural going on other than magic.

 

Conversely, what if Solas/Fen'harel is the only one who is something akin to a godlike being, and the others are the ones who are nobles or powerful mages?  Except it's pretty clear that is not the case with Mythal.

 

... Maybe the Dread Wolf was playing a trick on us, y'all.  I'm not saying he did so maliciously, but maybe he thinks the gods need to be humbled in general?  Or that obeisance need not be paid?  Perhaps when he said that, he was considering not releasing them from their prisons?

 

And what if the gods that Solas wants to free aren't the Creators, but the Old Gods?  There are so many hints that the gods were becoming blighted, but we know that the Old Gods aren't, unless the darkspawn can find them and taint them.  Maybe the Dalish got that wrong, too, and the Forgotten Ones are the good guys in this story, because the Creators all got tainted.

 

Solas' exact words about the gods are "mages, or spirits, or something we've never seen." I like your idea that he is perhaps not the same type of being that Mythal & co. are, and it would make a lot of sense. He clearly has a lot of knowledge about them, and they know who he is, but he's also clearly separate, being the only one seemingly awake and alive ATM.

 

And...I don't know how comfortable I would be with being tricked. I think the Solas arc treads a very fine line; you don't want the player to be violated because they were participating in something without knowing the full picture. So it's very important that the relationship between the Quizzie and Solas is real, even if he smudges the details of his past. I think that extends to the main quest: it's one thing to give Cory the orb without knowing what will happen and then want to fix it, it's another thing to give him the orb knowing that he will try to destroy the world as a way to say F*** you to the other creators. Or am I misinterpreting what you're saying? What part are you thinking he tricked us about?

[RynJ]

I can't refute any of these theories with canon, for obvious reasons. I'll just call it a gut feeling, and faith that the writers wouldn't give the romance such a disturbing twist to it. If you look for something malicious, you can find it in everything, I guess. Particularly when a romance option is revealed to be a trickster god.

 

But it really felt to me like Solas found someone whose intelligence and strength he respected, even if she was mortal, and he fell in love with her. Then he left her because his path is a dangerous one and not necessarily one she would have agreed with, not because she was something lesser or anything like that. "In another world" seemed to me to mean "in another world where I didn't have to be on this path that's dangerous and I could be what you deserved", not "if you were something else".

[scintilla]

Solas (the OP) had a really good post about the real line and Solas not seeing people as entirely real.

 

Solas would be in the position to know though, right? It may be that what was considered a "very powerful mage" during Solas's time has shifted into "godly" due to the changes in the world since the fall of Arlathan.

 

I agree with zambixi about Solas's story needing to handled carefully because of player participation and Rynj about the "in another world" line.

 

Have another kitten:

 

[Tielis]

A bit OT, but every time someone quotes Solas saying "in another world" all I can think of is this

 

[Eivuwan]

I can't refute any of these theories with canon, for obvious reasons. I'll just call it a gut feeling, and faith that the writers wouldn't give the romance such a disturbing twist to it. If you look for something malicious, you can find it in everything, I guess. Particularly when a romance option is revealed to be a trickster god.

 

But it really felt to me like Solas found someone whose intelligence and strength he respected, even if she was mortal, and he fell in love with her. Then he left her because his path is a dangerous one and not necessarily one she would have agreed with, not because she was something lesser or anything like that. "In another world" seemed to me to mean "in another world where I didn't have to be on this path that's dangerous and I could be what you deserved", not "if you were something else".

 

"In another world" is not an uncommon saying. Usually it just means that if circumstances were different, the action taken would not be this one. I agree with you that it probably shouldn't be taken literally. Solas is generally very respect to Lavellan unless you purposefully make decisions to ****** him off. Heck, he gives approval just for asking questions and helping people. I don't think he sees her as less than himself.

[Tielis]

"In another world" is not an uncommon saying. Usually it just means that if circumstances were different, the action taken would not be this one. I agree with you that it probably shouldn't be taken literally. Solas is generally very respect to Lavellan unless you purposefully make decisions to ****** him off. Heck, he gives approval just for asking questions and helping people. I don't think he sees her as less than himself.

 

Well, if Fen'Harel is trying to bring back the time when "everyone sang the same", then "in another world" should be taken literally.  

[Sifr]

"In another world" is not an uncommon saying. Usually it just means that if circumstances were different, the action taken would not be this one. I agree with you that it probably shouldn't be taken literally. Solas is generally very respect to Lavellan unless you purposefully make decisions to ****** him off. Heck, he gives approval just for asking questions and helping people. I don't think he sees her as less than himself.

 

Of course, Morrigan herself uses this exact same phrase when talking about having spent time in other worlds she's reached, apparently via the Eluvian and the Crossroads, so there's always the possibility that he's actually being literal here?

[Brass_Buckles]

Solas' exact words about the gods are "mages, or spirits, or something we've never seen." I like your idea that he is perhaps not the same type of being that Mythal & co. are, and it would make a lot of sense. He clearly has a lot of knowledge about them, and they know who he is, but he's also clearly separate, being the only one seemingly awake and alive ATM.

 

And...I don't know how comfortable I would be with being tricked. I think the Solas arc treads a very fine line; you don't want the player to be violated because they were participating in something without knowing the full picture. So it's very important that the relationship between the Quizzie and Solas is real, even if he smudges the details of his past. I think that extends to the main quest: it's one thing to give Cory the orb without knowing what will happen and then want to fix it, it's another thing to give him the orb knowing that he will try to destroy the world as a way to say F*** you to the other creators. Or am I misinterpreting what you're saying? What part are you thinking he tricked us about?

 

I mean he may have been tricking us in the sense that he might have lied about some information (i.e. what the elven gods are, since Flemeth is clearly something other than an abomination but more than just a mage--elves die when killed, like humans, but her soul is more mobile), but not about what and who he is.  I also think he did use the Inquisitor, to a degree, but not in any way that didn't already align with the Inquisitor's goals--he had to defeat Corypheus to get his orb back, and I don't think he was lying about using his artifacts to strengthen the Veil.  I think if we'd been de-activating them, we'd have more cause to worry about that--but he worried about what happens to spirits when they are forcibly flung into the real world.  Merging the two planes of existence would, at present, be catastrophic, so he wants to heal the rifts and prevent the Veil from weakening.

 

Destroying the Veil, then, does not appear to be his immediate goal.  It may be something that he does eventually, but possibly not in the way that we think he's going to do it.

 

Edited to add:  Note that if their goals aligned, they could be allies, but once their goals parted, Solas left even if romanced.  It's not that he doesn't care, though, you are right.  His trickery isn't malicious, but I think it's more to keep his secret and perhaps to keep himself and others from being hurt.

[Eivuwan]

For everyone who is feeling down from the more pessimistic theories, remember the last thing Solas said to you. "What we had was real."

[SamanthaJ]

I don't think Solas was lying about what the gods were. Like zambixi pointed out his exact words did give multiple alternatives as to what they could be. I think the only thing he was trying to say was that there was an alternate explanation for what they were aside from being gods.

[Brass_Buckles]

For everyone who is feeling down from the more pessimistic theories, remember the last thing Solas said to you. "What we had was real."

 

More specitfically he said to never doubt that what they had was real.

 

Solas, you have all the sadness... ALL OF IT.

[Aviena]

Whenever I hear the "you're real, and it means everyone could be real" line, I think of Leliana during In Hushed Whispers.

 

Leliana: This is all pretend to you. Some future you hope will never exist. I suffered. The whole world suffered. It was real.

[RynJ]

I mean he may have been tricking us in the sense that he might have lied about some information (i.e. what the elven gods are, since Flemeth is clearly something other than an abomination but more than just a mage--elves die when killed, like humans, but her soul is more mobile), but not about what and who he is.  I also think he did use the Inquisitor, to a degree, but not in any way that didn't already align with the Inquisitor's goals--he had to defeat Corypheus to get his orb back, and I don't think he was lying about using his artifacts to strengthen the Veil.  I think if we'd been de-activating them, we'd have more cause to worry about that--but he worried about what happens to spirits when they are forcibly flung into the real world.  Merging the two planes of existence would, at present, be catastrophic, so he wants to heal the rifts and prevent the Veil from weakening.

 

Destroying the Veil, then, does not appear to be his immediate goal.  It may be something that he does eventually, but possibly not in the way that we think he's going to do it.

 

Edited to add:  Note that if their goals aligned, they could be allies, but once their goals parted, Solas left even if romanced.  It's not that he doesn't care, though, you are right.  His trickery isn't malicious, but I think it's more to keep his secret and perhaps to keep himself and others from being hurt.

 

I agree. I think "destroying the veil" would be a process and I imagine Solas is aware of that. Look how bad the veil tears turned out in DAI, forcing spirits out of the Fade and twisting them with the shock. Solas seems very aware of how dangerous it is which is why he wants to stop it. It's why I don't actually think his elven artifacts are weakening the veil and he's just lying to you about it, as interesting as that would be (plus they're totally optional so I always doubted they had that sort of future significance). 

 

And maybe they really are just super powerful mages. According to Solas, their magic capabilities back in the day were like nothing anyone in modern Thedas has ever seen. Their "powerful mage" is probably much, much different than our conception of "powerful mage".

 

I also don't think he was really "using" the Inquisitor, though in a way I guess he was but mostly he was tagging along with what the Inquisition was already going to do. He didn't orchestrate this mission to stop the hole in the sky, that was going to happen with or without him around. He just made it so it might actually be successful and joined so he could retrieve his orb after all was said and done, which apparently he couldn't do on his own. Too weak, I guess. He's like a hitchhiker, and Cassandra was "going his way". 

[Eivuwan]

Is it just me or was Solas the most happy and cheerful when you first meet him in the prologue? He seems to have become more solemn for the rest of the game.

[LapCat]

If it turned out that she really had been placed in the Dread Wolf's body, then that would mean he really is some kind of spirit/soul running around without a body.  Or else, he is sharing a body with the man who was born in the village that he said he was born in.

 

... Hard to say really.

 

Was doing some thinking today on the Solas/Lavellan relationship.  Specifically about how eager he was to start it (that Fade kiss!), and about what the dialogue between he and Cole might mean.

 

"You became real.  That means the others could, too.  It changes everything, but it can't."  Something like that, yes?  Now, if he means Solas, then it could imply he is some kind of Fade entity that made itself real.  If it means Lavellan... well I was thinking that makes it not just all kinds of levels of sad, but also all kinds of levels of wrong.

 

So, Lavellan "became real."  She began to matter, became what he considers "Elvhen."  If the others could, too, why is that something that can't be allowed to happen?  Is he rejecting her "reality" so that he can continue on his set path?  Is he so set on making things the way they were that he'd tell himself that Lavellan is just like the others, after all, or that he'd sacrifice her for what he sees as the greater good?

 

This is Solas, he's open-minded, he's willing to admit when he's wrong.  Except this time.  Why?

 

My only answer for it is that he misses everyone else he knew from his own time so much that Lavellan just cannot help his loneliness, nor can anyone else in the Inquisition.  He dislikes the state of the world so much that he'll tell himself Lavellan isn't really real, just to be able to make himself do what he feels he has to do.

 

And yet, that doesn't fit, because... he wouldn't wish his path on an enemy, much less someone he deeply cares for.  So he tells Cole.  That line implies he's protecting those he became close to.  Are they "real" to him to deserve protection?

 

The more I thought about it, the less sense it really makes.  Either he's protecting her, or he's sacrificing her for the greater good, and I can't tell which it is.  Perhaps it's both, though, because if she doesn't know, she can't intervene.  Then she can survive whatever comes next... but she won't be "real" so their love can never be, at least as far as Solas is concerned.

 

And then there's his line about "in another world..."

 

Does he feel they are so far apart?  Maybe it really is that he's rejecting her as "real Elvhen?"  And if she's not Elvhen, he can't be with her.  And she doesn't matter in the grand scheme of his plan, no matter how much he loves her.  That is not just horribly wrong-headed and closed-minded of him, it's also terribly, terribly sad... because we can tell that he does truly love her.  Why would he think that anything that could potentially cause dire harm to his loved one would be a good idea?  How could he suddenly be looking at her as so much less than him, when he'd spent so much time becoming close to her?

 

Yes, he said he thought it would be unkind to continue their relationship, in the balcony scene.  So we knew it probably wasn't going to end well (or, well, I figured, and yet hoped it would anyway).

 

I can't help thinking that whichever meaning it holds, that banter of Cole's is key to understanding why Solas left.  I don't think any of us have entirely hit on the why of it, for all of our guessing about his protecting Lavellan or putting duty first.  I really, truly hope I'm not right about it, or that if I am, he's able to work past what he's feeling... that would just leave such a bad taste in my mouth.

 

Edited to clarify what precisely invokes my horror at this thought:  Basically, if Solas is rejecting Lavellan's "reality" as an Elvhen, I am worried that he's saying she's so far beneath him as to be beneath his concern... even though he is in love with her.  And because this makes her less valuable, he is letting go, despite how much pain it causes him--and her, which also hurts him--so that he can continue with his plans to help the People Who Matter to Him.  And if I am right, that... puts him in all kinds of WRONG, and I have trouble feeling badly for him because the only reason he'd feel badly for himself is because he fell for someone he really shouldn't have--even though he initially encouraged it.  So I hope I'm not right...

 

Aaaagh, comfort me please Solas thread, tell me something positive, tell me I can't be right, think of any theory you please but tell me I can't possibly be right...

 

I think its a loaded word for a simple meaning. Solas is an ancient god who has a pretty concrete idea of who "the people" are and his love for Lavellan takes someone out of that group and she becomes "real." Meaning, she has thoughts, motivations, individuality that contrasts with his previous ideas. She is now outside of just the group. This is trouble for him when he thinks about what he must do. He isn't thinking individually, he is thinking long term about the group. Sure, some people might be hurt, annoyed and find some of it generally unpleasant but it is for the greater good. Then crap, he falls in love and starts thinking that he might hurt this person with what he doing and could influence him to change his plans. So at this point he is torn between his heart and his plans for the greater good and ultimately decides the group whether rightly or wrongly.

 

I really can't wait to figure out what his plans are....

[Brass_Buckles]

I don't think Solas was lying about what the gods were. Like zambixi pointed out his exact words did give multiple alternatives as to what they could be. I think the only thing he was trying to say was that there was an alternate explanation for what they were aside from being gods.

 

True enough.  I think his point was basically that he didn't like the idea of them being worshiped.  Which is... interesting, considering how he reacts to the Maker and Andraste initially, until he concedes to Cassandra that maybe there is a Maker--whom he still won't worship.  I can't help thinking this is a holdover from believing himself a god; perhaps on some level he still believes it.

 

Effectively, I think his dialogue is meant to make us, the players, think later on:  Okay, we know that the elven pantheon actually exist (or they did at some point), but were they really gods?

 

The answer to that question is left up to the individual players, just as the question of whether there is a Maker and what the Maker's nature might be (cruel or kind, did he turn his back on his creation or does he still watch as Leliana once believed?).

 

Hm.  So, is Solas/Fen'harel a god, or something else?  What makes a being divine?  Power?  Personality?  Some combination of the two?  Something else entirely, that is possibly indefinable?  There are certainly many pantheons of imperfect gods in real-world history.

 

For Uth'shiral's purposes, I think basically, yes, Solas is effectively a deity.   His kindness toward others, his gentle guidance, his knowledge, his ability in the Fade... he doesn't need the orb to have great influence.  He wouldn't even need immortality.  He felt the world changed with her--but he did the same for her.  And yet, he is a person, an individual whom she deeply cares for, regardless of whatever loftier purpose or essence of being he might have.  I hope they can reconnect.

 

For my other Lavellan, Numinera... perhaps not so much.  She's even more fiercely Dalish than Uth'shiral, and yet I think seeing the Dread Wolf being so... human... would make her see him as less a walking miracle.  He might prefer this, he might not.  It wouldn't matter to her.

 

For me personally... I think that the answer is ambiguous.  I mean I obviously don't believe in him in reality, but I'm talking in terms of what the devs were doing with the elven pantheon.  Is he godly?  Yeah, kind of.  Is he a god?  Well, maybe... I don't know.  He seems pretty... human, to me.  Well, elven... you know what I mean.

[SamanthaJ]

Is it just me or was Solas the most happy and cheerful when you first meet him in the prologue? He seems to have become more solemn for the rest of the game.

Maybe he wanted to make a good first impression? Honestly I think the weight of the situation started weighing down on him as events progressed. Kind of like when you have a huge weighty exam to do in a week. You'll be cheerful at first since the exam is a few days away, but as it draws closer you become progressively more not cheerful. Defeating Cory and getting the Orb were his version of an approaching exam, maybe?