153431 réponses à ce sujet

[madrar]

Putting aside the craze balls meta game theory I just posted, there are quite a few plausible motives for Solas to push Lavellan away that don't ask us to assume he's prioritizing the old gods over her.

One possibility:

It's established in game that the anchor is bound to the Inquisitor in a permanent way, and cannot be removed or recovered without her death. Remember also that the anchor represents a large amount of the power inherent to Solas' focus and thus by extension, a significant part of his own power. When Cole begins to explain what would be required to wake the "sleeping gods", Solas abruptly shuts him out. It's possible the end of that sentence could have been "you would have to die", with the understanding that Solas could no longer conceive of following that path, if he ever did.

Given that, his only hope is recovering the orb itself. When that too fails, it becomes clear that the original goal of his plan (collaborated with Mythal ) can only be attained by granting her the remaining power residing in one of them. A sacrifice must be made, either him or the Inquisitor, and -from his perspective- it can no longer be her.

As always, that critical "but" right before "the People, they need me" is a sticking point. If you can contextualize it as a final plea for a different path, it seems plausible that he approaches Mythal at the end of the game as a not-entirely-willing, but voluntary sacrifice.

[arelenriel]

So I just realized that Andruil's Abyss armor that made her go insane sounded an awfully lot like someone else's armor, in DA:I.  Samson's red lyrium armor.  Could Corypheus have somehow known about Andruil's armor, learned about it somewhere, and reproduced it?  Would he have already known about red lyrium?

 

And here's the catch, too... if that's so, then we already know red lyrium is blighted lyrium.  So it means that whatever the Abyss is, it is also likely the source of red lyrium and the Blight.

 

Solas having apparently spent some quality time with Andruil (whether he wanted or not), probably has a lot more knowledge of the Blight than he shared.  And I think he should have shared that knowledge, because it is probably the most important knowledge anyone in Thedas could have.

• I think the big problem with that is that he doesn't know who to trust. He can't trust the Inquisition fully because it includes either Templars or Mages and possibly Grey Wardens if the Quizzy conscripts them because these people may have been exposed to the Taint either via Red Lyrium if a Mage or Templar, or via the Joining if a Grey Warden.
• We know Corypheus can control the Wardens via the Taint and they were complicit in the murder of the Divine.. if he can control Wardens via the Taint than he can control the Rebel Mages, and Templars who have been exposed to taint infused Red Lyrium..
• He can't tell the Chantry- they have lost control over the Templars, and the Mages and these are the two groups that provide them with most of their power- what are a bunch of priestesses going to do- pray the red lyrium away.. Plus he is an apostate according to their rules- they won't believe him
• SolasHarel saw how good praying worked to eliminate the Taint in his fellow Creators if in fact that is why they went mad and he had to lock them away. The elven population probably prayed a lot when Arlathan began to fail- and the Gods were to tied up in their own crazy to respond.. ya know ghouls and all if in fact they were Tainted by the Blight
• The Chantry, the Mages, the Templars, and the Wardens are the one's responsible for dealing with lyrium, and the Taint and they either can't, or won't because they are potentially working with the enemy.
• Even the political leaders are potentially collaborating with Corypheus -after all how many Orlesian and Tevinter nobles were collaborating with them including Empress Celene's own cousins Gaspard and Florienne (which is why I never side with them)
• He literally has no one he can trust with this but himself since none of the organizations responsible for regulating the lyrium trade, or for dealing with the Blight/Taint are uncompromised in this case.
• Even the Quizzy is suspect since she/he physically entered the Fade and has been exposed to Red Lyrium at the site of the Temple explosion.
• Solasharel seems the sort of person where he won't give out information until he has tested his theories and attempted to reverse whatever he did that messed up Thedas and the Fade. If that does not work he may inform the responsible organizations and then supervise how they deal with the Blight/Red Lyrium/Taint issue from then on but possibly not given how he has failed when he has interfered in the past.
• This leaves him with the options of fixing it himself, or ignoring it and I don't see him ignoring it.

[zambixi]

Solas is a dangerous, secretive, prejudiced, and occasionally blindingly selfish man.  He's also kind, compassionate, gentle, and dedicated to knowledge and truth.  And he cares so much, to the point of causing himself pain.  I think it's very unlikely that he'll either be a good guy or a bad guy when we eventually run into him again.  Just because he thinks his plan will help everyone doesn't mean it actually will.  We talked a while ago about how he's a bit of an aristocrat; for someone who takes an interest in the "little people," he only has a vague idea of what it's like to be a mundane in Thedas.  

 

When he talks about Lavellan being "real," I think he might mean it in a more philosophical sense.  After all, he is capable of developing a deep respect for a non-Lavellan Inquisitor who connects with him, and his dislike of Sera doesn't come from her quickened lifespan or lack of magic, but rather her attitude.  Longer lifespans would lead to a very different way of looking at the world; maybe he laments what he perceives as a lack of wisdom or perspective from the modern elves and shorter-lived races.  

 

Yes I agree 100%. I was pretty much talking about intent and his perception of what he is doing, not about the effects of his plans. I think his privilege - for lack of a better word - blinds him to the plight of the people that are actually oppressed. I think that's one of the more interesting things about his character. If he'd grown up poor and trampled on it would make him more and less noble. In some ways, the fact that he doesn't understand the little people makes him foolish and as you said "dangerous, secretive, prejudiced, and occasionally blindingly selfish." But it also makes it sort of amazing that he decided that he wanted to help them, and was presumably willing to give up his position and power to do so.

 

I also agree with your interpretation of "real" so yup. Good times all 'round.

 

 

So one question is what exactly does the mark and the orb do other than what we saw in the game. Why does Solas think it would change Lavellan's spirit? There's nothing in the lore as far as I know about magic being able to change people's spirit unless it's an abomination type of situation. Maybe it's possible that the mark also has the ability to draw upon the power of the spirits in the fade? That explains why even non-mage characters can use it. But then maybe constant use of fade spirits' energy ends up changing your own spirit to be more like the elven gods whose character is more like something in-between spirit and elf than either by itself.

 

Who knows? I think it's Mother Giselle that describes it as a "needle" and Quizzie as a "thread"? Not that Mother Giselle is an expert on the fade, but it doesn't seem like an inaccurate description. Then Dagna calls it a key? Then of course the name "anchor"....we should compile a list of the different ways it's referred to, and who refers to it that way to see if that reveals anything. If they ever release an XB1 patch I'll do it on my next playthrough.

 

But...I think it's a type of magic we've never seen before. It's connected to the rifts, which we know are what allowed time magic to suddenly happen, so there's precedent for er...new stuff? And the Rift Mage teacher is a little bonkers, which makes me wonder if Rift Magic is not something that normal mages can master, generally. I dunno...interesting stuff either way.

[_Lucinia]

No it was the Spirit Justinia that compared it to a thread and needle.

 

By the way, really enjoying the convo the last couple pages. 

[Sable Rhapsody]

Who knows? I think it's Mother Giselle that describes it as a "needle" and Quizzie as a "thread"? Not that Mother Giselle is an expert on the fade, but it doesn't seem like an inaccurate description. Then Dagna calls it a key? Then of course the name "anchor"....we should compile a list of the different ways it's referred to, and who refers to it that way to see if that reveals anything. If they ever release an XB1 patch I'll do it on my next playthrough.

 

But...I think it's a type of magic we've never seen before. It's connected to the rifts, which we know are what allowed time magic to suddenly happen, so there's precedent for er...new stuff? And the Rift Mage teacher is a little bonkers, which makes me wonder if Rift Magic is not something that normal mages can master, generally. I dunno...interesting stuff either way.

 

It's the spirit mimicking Divine Justinia that describes the Anchor as a needle and quizzy as thread.  I'd think a spirit would have a fairly good idea of what's up with the Anchor, even if like Cole, it has trouble expressing it in a way we can understand.

 

Maybe the Anchor actually works a bit like how Solas describes templar powers, enforcing reality.  It "anchors" its bearer to his/her body, making it possible to physically walk the Fade without harm or somehow separating body and spirit like what happens to Niall in DA:O.  

[CapricornSun]

*quietly slips these in* (Don't mine me.)

 

 

Source: http://deadunderthef...nteresting-text

-----

 

 

Source: http://maeves-child....-of-andraste-by

-----

 

 

Source: http://dreadwolfed.t...022405/hel-p-me

-----

 

 

Source: http://themageinquis...st/105627755875

[Aetheria]

It's the spirit mimicking Divine Justinia that describes the Anchor as a needle and quizzy as thread.  I'd think a spirit would have a fairly good idea of what's up with the Anchor, even if like Cole, it has trouble expressing it in a way we can understand.

 

Maybe the Anchor actually works a bit like how Solas describes templar powers, enforcing reality.  It "anchors" its bearer to his/her body, making it possible to physically walk the Fade without harm or somehow separating body and spirit like what happens to Niall in DA:O.  

Maybe I'm reading too much into the needle/thread metaphor, but is it possible that the spirit is implying that fixing the Fade rifts somehow connects/binds the Inquisitor with the Fade, or spirits, or... something? Since that kind of makes it sound like the Anchor is necessary to do stuff with the rifts, but the Inquisitor themselves has some role in closing them, like the thread is what actually keeps the fabric together when you sew something up...

[madrar]

Is it just me or was Solas the most happy and cheerful when you first meet him in the prologue? He seems to have become more solemn for the rest of the game.

Heh. Given my crazy theories about his relationship with the Andrastean religion (and how horribly awry things have gone on that front) having the first thing out of the Inquisitor's mouth be "are you with the Chantry?" is probably worth a laugh.

Or at least , a grim and fatalistic chuckle. =w=

[sunhair]

gah i had just completed Solas's All New, Faded for Her  quest and my Levallen was even feeling Solas's Pain 

Spoiler

[Sah291]

I hate spitballing theories when they're completely raw and untested in my head, but there's a related concept that's been bothering me for a bit as well. Like you, I initially assumed Lavellan becoming "real" to Solas was metaphorical- a tipping point in terms of his respect for her as a worthy (ugh, for lack of a better term) inheritor of ancient legacy of his People.

That's not an entirely satisfying explanation though, so let's play devils advocate with this crackpot alternative:

It's been suggested that Solas, and other original pre-veil entities like him, are distinct from post-veil races and spirits by being fully present in both reality and the Fade. Essentially, they are more "real", more complete, than beings who are restricted to either side.

Consider Cole now, and his limited but uncanny access to the world beyond the game world. Not in-game reality, not the Fade. Our world. Again, his scope seems limited, but the movie references make it hard to deny, and Solas shares this ability. There is a second veil in Dragon Age, one formed by your computer screen, and the game seems to grant entities like Cole and Solas some measure of awareness of this True Beyond, (where Thedas' real creator gods do indeed exist in the form of Bioware writers) as well as a limited ability to access knowledge beyond it.

Now think about the player in this context. Think about you, and how you fit into the world of Thedas. You are, in essence, a guiding spirit from the Beyond, inhabiting the mortal shell of Lavellan. She has her own backstory, her own life in the context of the game world in which she lives, but after the initial scene you are the spirit that guides every action, every moral choice she makes.
 

 

I like you theory, I also felt at times like both Cole and Solas were fourth wall breaking. Varric sometimes also. For another example, Legion did this a bit in Mass Effect, I thought. 

[CapricornSun]

Some more art. 

 

 

Source: http://anartisticrea...are-amazing-and

-----

 

 

Source: http://sing-sei.tumb...576528619/solas

-----

 

 

1. "Don’t fall in love with Solas
2. Failed step one"

Source: http://holly-magnina...failed-step-one

[Sable Rhapsody]

Maybe I'm reading too much into the needle/thread metaphor, but is it possible that the spirit is implying that fixing the Fade rifts somehow connects/binds the Inquisitor with the Fade, or spirits, or... something? Since that kind of makes it sound like the Anchor is necessary to do stuff with the rifts, but the Inquisitor themselves has some role in closing them, like the thread is what actually keeps the fabric together when you sew something up...

 

It does make sense along with Corypheus's line about how the Inquisitor has "spoilt" the Anchor by using it.  It might be symbiotic somehow?  Solas says that the Anchor allows you to dream with more lucidity, and the Justinia spirit claims it cannot be separate from you without your death.  Maybe the Anchor is somehow bound to the Inquisitor's spirit.

 

I was gonna write smut, and then you guys started throwing around crazy and awesome theories 

[madrar]

Maybe I'm reading too much into the needle/thread metaphor, but is it possible that the spirit is implying that fixing the Fade rifts somehow connects/binds the Inquisitor with the Fade, or spirits, or... something? Since that kind of makes it sound like the Anchor is necessary to do stuff with the rifts, but the Inquisitor themselves has some role in closing them, like the thread is what actually keeps the fabric together when you sew something up...

I think in one sense, the anchor is exactly that- it anchors the space around it, making it more immutable and "real", which works to reseal the veil. As for the needle and thread metaphor, I think that's a reference to the fact that is it can also pierce the veil and pull you through to the other side.

A key, after all, can both lock and unlock a door. ^w^

[Uirebhiril]

It does make sense along with Corypheus's line about how the Inquisitor has "spoilt" the Anchor by using it.  It might be symbiotic somehow?  Solas says that the Anchor allows you to dream with more lucidity, and the Justinia spirit claims it cannot be separate from you without your death.  Maybe the Anchor is somehow bound to the Inquisitor's spirit.

 

 

I'm a bit confused on the permanent until death thing. Is that implying that it can be recovered after the inquisitor dies? Or would it just completely cease to be upon their death? If the former, it makes no sense then that Corypheus wouldn't just kill them right away, rather than do a speech about starting over and not letting an unknown rival live.

[Eivuwan]

I think Weekes purposefully put that last Solas line (what we had was real) in the game so you wouldn't feel like he was a con-man who betrayed your trust and took advantage of you. Weekes is mean, but not that cruel.

[CapricornSun]

Okay! Last one, I promise! (Because this made me laugh. xD)

 

 

 

"My mom does not approve of my Dragon Age decisions.

She said that Cullen is WAAAY better than Solas. In every way."

 

Source: http://drathe.tumblr...f-my-dragon-age

[zambixi]

I'm a bit confused on the permanent until death thing. Is that implying that it can be recovered after the inquisitor dies? Or would it just completely cease to be upon their death? If the former, it makes no sense then that Corypheus wouldn't just kill them right away, rather than do a speech about starting over and not letting an unknown rival live.

 

I don't think it can be recovered, or at least not by Corypheus. I imagine there's a very specific reason Cory needed the Divine in order to do whatever he was trying to do, otherwise why not just pick up some random Joe Schmoe? So once Quizzie dies, maybe the power goes somewhere, but not in a form that Cory can make use of. That route to godhood is ruined by Quizzie's initial intervention.

[Era'harel]

Okay! Last one, I promise! (Because this made me laugh. xD)

 

 

 

"My mom does not approve of my Dragon Age decisions.

She said that Cullen is WAAAY better than Solas. In every way."

 

Source: http://drathe.tumblr...f-my-dragon-age

Haha, this is what I thought before conversing with him.  I love hair, particularly long hair... so just SEEING Solas, I had no idea I'd go towards him.  I don't mean to discount Solas, but after a few conversations around Haven he really was the only viable romance option this time around.  Cullen was too... expected/wholesome, Blackwall was too hairy, Iron Bull... called himself... Iron Bull and my elf isn't particularly attracted to glistening bovine types; a bit too nail on the head, bestial.  I like the subtle-secret beast-type best; with superior mental agility.

As for the WOMEN options -- well, they aren't Isabela.  That's for sure.

[Era'harel]

Also, how is Cullen's thread beating us with post-count?!  This will not do!  SOLASMANCERS, UNITE!  ELVEN GLORY!

[sunhair]

I'm wondering though on the Anchor being permanent part is it possible that Solas made it that way knowing Cory was going to try to recover it?

 

maybe its just me grasping at straws though thinking he might've played a part in it being perma

[Eivuwan]

Also, how is Cullen's thread beating us with post-count?!  This will not do!  SOLASMANCERS, UNITE!  ELVEN GLORY!

 

I think a lot of the Cullen threads are pre-DAI stuff. He was in all three games so it's not surprising that there's more to talk about.

[Uirebhiril]

Okay! Last one, I promise! (Because this made me laugh. xD)

Spoiler

 

 

"My mom does not approve of my Dragon Age decisions.

She said that Cullen is WAAAY better than Solas. In every way."

Source: http://drathe.tumblr...f-my-dragon-age

 

Earlier today I sent my mother some of the screenshots I had taken in the game after she asked what I was talking about with a friend. One of the pictures included Solas, so I told her that the bald guy was my character's boyfriend.

 

She laughed at me and said his ears looked funny.

 

That's all right, dear mother. When Solas reveals himself as an ancient elven god and drops the Veil/releases his godly kin/pees magic for the world, I will be by his side. The elven glory shall be mine.

[Era'harel]

I'm just going to leave this here.

[CapricornSun]

Haha, this is what I thought before conversing with him.  I love hair, particularly long hair... so just SEEING Solas, I had no idea I'd go towards him.  I don't mean to discount Solas, but after a few conversations around Haven he really was the only viable romance option this time around.  Cullen was too... expected/wholesome, Blackwall was too hairy, Iron Bull... called himself... Iron Bull and my elf isn't particularly attracted to glistening bovine types; a bit too nail on the head, bestial.  I like the subtle-secret beast-type best; with superior mental agility.

As for the WOMEN options -- well, they aren't Isabela.  That's for sure.

 

This! I didn't expect to romance him because he was... well... bald. xD But once he opened his mouth... BAM! He caught my interest!

 

Also, how is Cullen's thread beating us with post-count?!  This will not do!  SOLASMANCERS, UNITE!  ELVEN GLORY!

 

I do wonder what it is they talk about over there. I mean, sure he's been quite popular since DA:O but I'm having a hard time imagining what Cullen-related discussions they have on that thread. (I guess I could lurk and find out but I prefer to stay here to be honest.) 

[sunhair]

This! I didn't expect to romance him because he was... well... bald. xD But once he opened his mouth... BAM! He caught my interest!

 

 

I do wonder what it is they talk about over there. I mean, sure he's been quite popular since DA:O but I'm having a hard time imagining what Cullen-related discussions they have on that thread. (I guess I could lurk and find out but I prefer to stay here to be honest.) 

I post over there in the Cullen thread every once in a while,but honestly I prefer Solas and the Solas thread. I guess Once you go Solas you never go back no matter how many times he breaks our hearts lol