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[Lorien19]

All interpretations are probably valid as his emotions are probably complex to the point where even he doesn't know. I think the overall arch should be noted that it goes from the first face to the last. And the major differences in them.

Yes I don't doubt the evolution of his arc,I was just particularly referring to the first mainly because this is where I realised that there was more to him than he let on.

[sunhair]

wow ok I just seen a Solas vid I think it is a disapproval one but seen you can say this to him spoiler tagged

Spoiler

Solas, you're addicted to the fade!

[Tielis]

So, bear with me, suspicious/confusing theory time. Lets sum up:

Spoiler

1. You surprise Solas with a smooch in the fade.
2. He says it was a bad idea and he shouldn't have encouraged it presumably because he must do Big-World-Changing-Plan-A.

3. He can't resist you on the balcony and kisses you, starting the relationship despite Big-World-Changing-Plan-A.

4. Takes you to that romantic place, takes away your vallaslin/or doesn't and then breaks up with you saying “You'll see” or “I hope you WILL understand”...once again, because of Big-World-Changing-Plan-A.
5. You ask why he pulled that crap and he says he will explain everything after the battle (btw. you can explore all the dialogue options here without new characters)
6. Beat the dickens out of Coryphish, Solas is moping about his orb that was vital to Big-World-Changing-Plan-A and says things to you.
7. Magical universe powers allow the player to see who Solas is. Something happens between Sol'Harel and Flemythal (I am being vague, because no one is sure what exactly happened). Presumably, this was Big-World-Changing-Plan-B?
8. Solas talks to Cole and to paraphrase, says 'bye little guy, I know you wanna help but I have to do this shiznit alone and like forever alone...oh and by the way you have to forget me'.

Now, in the game I assume that 7 comes before 8 since that is how they are sequentially placed. This makes me think that Solas is still Solas after the weird scene with Flemythal. but I still wonder about this whole path-walked-in-solitude business. Was that an inevitability of Big-World-Changing-Plan-A and B? Or just B? Also, he made it seem like he would stick around after the fight, but what made him have to leave so suddenly?

So basically that wasn't a theory, but a really long question that can't be answered with the information at hand. Aaaand now I am back to square one, which is being in a state of extreme confusion and frustration.

Feel free to ignore this post. I thought tapping letters into a computer might help me get somewhere...it did not.  

 

Okay, here's a wrench in the works.

 

On a non-romanced character, Solas says goodbye to the Q before the last battle because he knows he's leaving.  What if Solas gave that little answering machine message to Cole before the last battle as well?

 

Now we *really* don't know if Solas is still the same guy after the epilogue scene.

[Sashimi_taco]

I don't see Solas as a sociopath, if anything he cares so much he can't see straight sometimes.

 

I should correct myself. Sometimes when people are in a really messed up place, they have sociopathic tendencies. And when they get in a better place they feel really bad for acting like one. 

[Brass_Buckles]

Since some people are talking about If, When, How, When Solas loved Lavellan, I did a thing. I edit a lot of videos and took screen shots of what his facial expression was when no one else was looking or could not see his face and was thinking about/interacting with Lavellan. Solas is a deeply reserved a private man, I can only assume he would not show his true face when people are looking at him. Much like a sociopath....

 

 

Solas looking at Lavellan as everyone sings to her/mourns or whatever. Looking at her like she's meat. Some would say this is sexy. However I think at this point he just sees her as a very useful pawn and desires that. Remember that he used to be really manipulative when he was at full power.

 

 

 

Looking at her when she sees skyhold. A little less "wolfish" and a bit more curious. I like to imagine skyhold was built on top of his old sacred ground. Maybe he's a little less intent on using her as a pawn and sees her slightly more as an equal. 

 

 

After the second kiss when he is turned away from her. Is that guilt? Shame? Maybe he feels bad for still trying to use her, but also can't help loving her. Apparently we are in a teen RomCom from 1998. I love it.

 

After third kiss and he says he has to not be with her anymore. I think in the moment before he really knew he loved her and couldn't do it anymore. Like all his lies and deceit to her came crashing down and he knew he was a real a**hole. 

 

 

Here we are when Lavellan feels bad that the/his orb is broken. "It's not your fault". I think he might be a changed man at this point.

 

 

One last look.

 

 

 

Conclusion: He was probably intent on using her and everyone else to his own gains at first. But she surprises him and this makes him feel empathy and remorse. He makes connections with other people, and small friendships. All he has now is guilt and regret, and a feeling that he must atone for his actions. 

 

He's been alone and manipulative for so long, I think it's hard for him to just be honest with someone. Which is why he just leaves. he doesn't know how to express any of those feelings and it probably hurts and is confusing. Which is why feelings are bad and you should never do them. 

 

TL;DR: Lavellan p**** so good it can change the moral alignment of a god. 

 

Actually, in the "Dawn Will Come" scene, look closely and he... looks at her and smiles.  Like he's proud.  Which he probably is, because he's just raised her up to Inquisitor status.

 

Is he using her there?  Oh sure.  Though maybe not so maliciously as you imply?

 

Also, Solas already knows he's in love by the time of the balcony scene.  That is what "Ar lath ma, vhenan" means - "I love you, my heart."  It's a bad idea to continue but he loves her, and without her, why is he even doing any of this?  "But without you--" Without her, what?  I think he cut that off with a kiss on purpose, so he wouldn't say too much.

 

The third scene, we already know he's in love, he already knows he's in love.  I think it's more that he wants to prove it to the Inquisitor, before he has to leave.  Wants her to know how deeply he cares, that he wasn't just saying it before.

 

I do not believe romancing him changes his morality.  What I do believe is that it forces him to consider that the people of modern Thedas are of value, too.  It may modify his intentions and his goal, but it will not completely change them.

[NightSymphony]

Another song that reminds me of Lavellen and Solas

 

 

The Church - Under the Milky Way Tonight

 

Sometimes when this place gets kind of empty
Sound of their breath fades with the light
I think about the loveless fascination
Under the Milky Way tonight

Lower the curtain down on Memphis
Lower the curtain down all right
I got no time for private consultation
Under the Milky Way tonight

Wish I knew what you were looking for
Might have known what you would find
Wish I knew what you were looking for
Might have known what you would find

And it's something quite peculiar
Something shimmering and white
Leads you here despite your destination
Under the Milky Way tonight

Wish I knew what you were looking for
Might have known what you would find
Wish I knew what you were looking for
Might have known what you would find

Under the Milky way tonight..
Under the Milky Way tonight...

[Sashimi_taco]

Actually, in the "Dawn Will Come" scene, look closely and he... looks at her and smiles.  Like he's proud.  Which he probably is, because he's just raised her up to Inquisitor status.

 

Is he using her there?  Oh sure.  Though maybe not so maliciously as you imply?

 

Also, Solas already knows he's in love by the time of the balcony scene.  That is what "Ar lath ma, vhenan" means - "I love you, my heart."  It's a bad idea to continue but he loves her, and without her, why is he even doing any of this?  "But without you--" Without her, what?  I think he cut that off with a kiss on purpose, so he wouldn't say too much.

 

The third scene, we already know he's in love, he already knows he's in love.  I think it's more that he wants to prove it to the Inquisitor, before he has to leave.  Wants her to know how deeply he cares, that he wasn't just saying it before.

 

I do not believe romancing him changes his morality.  What I do believe is that it forces him to consider that the people of modern Thedas are of value, too.  It may modify his intentions and his goal, but it will not completely change them.

 

 

Yes I agree on a lot of points. You have some good insight. I don't think it's so much her romance, but any inquisitor's actions that change him. But that's meta gaming. Overall for lavellan romancing I think I'm centering on the mixed feelings for her. 

[jawsisinmywc]

Can we talk about this Cole banter? It's fascinating and heartbreaking, though I'm not sure exactly what this is. Cole saying what he thinks Wisdom would? Or repeating something he heard before?

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

On a side note, reading people on the "least popular character" thread say that Cole is boring- Cole, the character who gives you insight into your companions and quest NPCs' motivations- makes me realize that some people play video games for very different reasons than I do.

Spoiler

I think he just saying what Solas' Spirit of Wisdom friend would have said if she were to sum up Solas.

I adore Cole and love taking him with because of the insight you get into the other characters. Through him the characters seemed more in-depth and multidimensional than in the previous games. For example you learn some very private moments about Vivienne where she fears and doesn't always have all her stuff together.

[Lorien19]

Actually, in the "Dawn Will Come" scene, look closely and he... looks at her and smiles. Like he's proud. Which he probably is, because he's just raised her up to Inquisitor status.

Is he using her there? Oh sure. Though maybe not so maliciously as you imply?

Also, Solas already knows he's in love by the time of the balcony scene. That is what "Ar lath ma, vhenan" means - "I love you, my heart." It's a bad idea to continue but he loves her, and without her, why is he even doing any of this? "But without you--" Without her, what? I think he cut that off with a kiss on purpose, so he wouldn't say too much.

The third scene, we already know he's in love, he already knows he's in love. I think it's more that he wants to prove it to the Inquisitor, before he has to leave. Wants her to know how deeply he cares, that he wasn't just saying it before.

I do not believe romancing him changes his morality. What I do believe is that it forces him to consider that the people of modern Thedas are of value, too. It may modify his intentions and his goal, but it will not completely change them.

He does?I should check that scene again!Last time I did I was distracted by the beautiful singing.
I also agree about the balcony,I highly doubt Solas would say "Ar lath ma vhenan" If he didn't actually mean it.

[Uirebhiril]

Also, Solas already knows he's in love by the time of the balcony scene.  That is what "Ar lath ma, vhenan" means - "I love you, my heart."  It's a bad idea to continue but he loves her, and without her, why is he even doing any of this?  "But without you--" Without her, what?  I think he cut that off with a kiss on purpose, so he wouldn't say too much.

 

 

I think the line is "...but losing you would - " It's still a good question. Losing her would what? Hurt him? Be catastrophic in some magic-in-your-hand manipulative way? Take away one small chance to be happy for a short while? Hmm.

 

Or we're all being trolled so hard and will find out in a DLC that Solas really didn't care and will happily hand us over to fuel a spell with our death. Or worse, there will just be... nothing.

[Sashimi_taco]

 

 

Or we're all being trolled so hard and will find out in a DLC that Solas really didn't care and will happily hand us over to fuel a spell with our death. Or worse, there will just be... nothing.

 

 

 

NO SHUTUP WEEKES WOULD NEVER DO THAT!

 

 

RIGHT!?!?!

 

 

RIGHT!?!?......

 

 

*runs away sobbing*

[RynJ]

I think the line is "...but losing you would - " It's still a good question. Losing her would what? Hurt him? Be catastrophic in some magic-in-your-hand manipulative way? Take away one small chance to be happy for a short while? Hmm.

 

Or we're all being trolled so hard and will find out in a DLC that Solas really didn't care and will happily hand us over to fuel a spell with our death. Or worse, there will just be... nothing.

 

Considering he sucks the breath out of you afterwards, I would assume "it would hurt me".

 

I really never felt manipulated by Solas at any point through the game. I never felt like he was using me any more than Cassandra and everybody in Thedas was using me. I was needed to close the breach, I was needed to fix so and so mess, I was needed to get an orb back. All the same, really.

[MaidenM]

I have a little thought about potential DLC that I wanted to share. In every interview/dev thingie I've come across they have talked about DLC in plural, seemingly having several planned out already.

 

That made me think a bit of Fallout: New Vegas, a game I found to make DLC in an interesting way. In Fallout: NV, all the DLC are pretty standalone, but also connected. Long story short: in every DLC you find out more about another courier, and in the last one you get to meet him for one big finale.

 

Anyone think that DAI's DLC could work in the same way? Standalone adventures that, when combined, reveal a greater whole? I think such an approach would be a useful way to avoid making the big reveal (whatever it is) too short, while also not having to wait until DA4.

 

I really really want a Wolf Hunt DLC, I'm a little too impatient ><

[Sable Rhapsody]

On Solas being manipulative: He strikes me as less manipulative and more just savvy. He doesn't know the orb will break. He thinks he can both help the Inquisition and get what he wants out of the arrangement. He's capable of caring about its members and steering them along a course that's advantageous for everyone.

There's no reason why he can't be both smart and genuinely kind.

[Lorien19]

No,optimism for the win!

[kalasaurus]

Or we're all being trolled so hard and will find out in a DLC that Solas really didn't care and will happily hand us over to fuel a spell with our death. Or worse, there will just be... nothing.

 

This would be me, shortly after that happened:

 

Source

[NightSymphony]

Not a big fan of this song...but it fits..don't you think?

 

"Because You Loved Me" - Celine Dion

For all those times you stood by me
For all the truth that you made me see
For all the joy you brought to my life
For all the wrong that you made right
For every dream you made come true
For all the love I found in you
I'll be forever thankful baby
You're the one who held me up
Never let me fall
You're the one who saw me through through it all

You were my strength when I was weak
You were my voice when I couldn't speak
You were my eyes when I couldn't see
You saw the best there was in me
Lifted me up when I couldn't reach
You gave me faith 'coz you believed
I'm everything I am
Because you loved me

You gave me wings and made me fly
You touched my hand I could touch the sky
I lost my faith, you gave it back to me
You said no star was out of reach
You stood by me and I stood tall
I had your love I had it all
I'm grateful for each day you gave me
Maybe I don't know that much
But I know this much is true
I was blessed because I was loved by you

You were my strength when I was weak
You were my voice when I couldn't speak
You were my eyes when I couldn't see
You saw the best there was in me
Lifted me up when I couldn't reach
You gave me faith 'coz you believed
I'm everything I am
Because you loved me

You were always there for me
The tender wind that carried me
A light in the dark shining your love into my life
You've been my inspiration
Through the lies you were the truth
My world is a better place because of you

You were my strength when I was weak
You were my voice when I couldn't speak
You were my eyes when I couldn't see
You saw the best there was in me
Lifted me up when I couldn't reach
You gave me faith 'coz you believed
I'm everything I am
Because you loved me

I'm everything I am
Because you loved me.

[madrar]

[snip best character summary ever]

(Oh my god, this is long. I...uh...just watched the ending again and it gave me a lot of feels to work out)

I'd like this engraved on a stone tablet, so I can heft it over my shoulder and smack posters of drivel like "Solas is boring" or " Obvious evil apostate is Obvious" upside the head with it.

That would be supremely cathartic.

[Uirebhiril]

This would be me, shortly after that happened:

Spoiler

 

Source

 

Or, to continue that, he is no longer actually Solas but the vessel of, well, you know. Anything he had before is no longer relevant and will not be addressed outside of a single toneless comment. "You were the one he fancied for awhile. Most interesting."

 

In the end you will be able to save him, but to do so means sacrificing your entire party and letting a village be laid to waste. He will then resent you for that sacrifice on his behalf once he has returned to normal and it will cause a breakup. You will never see nor hear from him again. In fact, no one will even remember him at all.

 

Should you have let him sacrifice himself instead, he will again be Solas, and will visit you in your dreams... where his strength ends just short of being able to touch or hold you, so all you can do is reach for each other across the dreamscape and cry your unending love.

 

This is a better outcome than you forcibly sacrificing yourself, in which he goes mad, destroys half the continent, and eventually burns himself out in one last fiery torrent of death, your name the last echo heard in a shattered world.

 

I'm so sorry, everyone. I really do love you all.

[BlackCat]

Can we talk about this Cole banter? It's fascinating and heartbreaking, though I'm not sure exactly what this is. Cole saying what he thinks Wisdom would? Or repeating something he heard before?
 

 

On a side note, reading people on the "least popular character" thread say that Cole is boring- Cole, the character who gives you insight into your companions and quest NPCs' motivations- makes me realize that some people play video games for very different reasons than I do.

 

I think that conversation pertains to Solas's spirit friend in Faded For Her, and is possibly from her perspective. They mention that she was a spirit of Wisdom.  

 

And I really like Cole a lot more than I thought I would. My Lavellan became closer to him than my human character, since he is Solas's buddy. Sometimes Cole provides a better understanding of Solas than he does himself. 

[_Lucinia]

Or, to continue that, he is no longer actually Solas but the vessel of, well, you know. Anything he had before is no longer relevant and will not be addressed outside of a single toneless comment. "You were the one he fancied for awhile. Most interesting."

 

In the end you will be able to save him, but to do so means sacrificing your entire party and letting a village be laid to waste. He will then resent you for that sacrifice on his behalf once he has returned to normal and it will cause a breakup. You will never see nor hear from him again. In fact, no one will even remember him at all.

 

Should you have let him sacrifice himself instead, he will again be Solas, and will visit you in your dreams... where his strength ends just short of being able to touch or hold you, so all you can do is reach for each other across the dreamscape and cry your unending love.

 

This is a better outcome than you forcibly sacrificing yourself, in which he goes mad, destroys half the continent, and eventually burns himself out in one last fiery torrent of death, your name the last echo heard in a shattered world.

 

I'm so sorry, everyone. I really do love you all.

Evil.

 

Who do you think you are?  Joss Whedon?

[Patchwork]

Responding to dropped topics because I have thoughts-

 

The Wolves

 

The Emerald Knights having wolf partners reminds me of the Ranger spec in DAO, we didn't have a trainer for it instead it's brought from a merchant but I headcanon as it being Dalish. Keeping wolves around full time draws too much attention but I think it's likely that there's a wolf pack made up of half trained wolves and the more adventurous hunters train other animals too. 

 

All the wolf statues is probably BW trolling us but I do like the idea of like Mercury he's a messenger between the gods. His presence in the temples could be an acknowledgement of his importance by the other Creators because Fen'Harel refused to build a temple of his own or mark other elves with his symbol. He was was powerful and the other Creators refused to let the People view him as less because he did things differently.

 

Or Fen'Harel was a late comer to the Creator circle and the statues were his way of muscling in, of reminded the others that he would not be ignored.

 

No Pretty Dress

 

I think Josie and the tailors at Skyhold worked very hard to create something that spoke of importance while still being something the people going to the Winter Palace could fight in if they had to. Next time, and if circumstances allow, there will be dresses, oh yes something unique and fabulous to show the Inquisitor off to the world.  

[sunhair]

Just added thi Jewel of a Song to my Solas Playlist

Exiles:The Wolves of Midwinter Mary Fahl

 

 

 

In this dream of life and death

I know so much I will forget

I know your body and your breath

I know your rhythm and your touch

I want you here, I want so much

I fear too much

 

Spoiler

In this dream of life and death
I know so much I will forget
I know your body and your breath
I know your rhythm and your touch
I want you here, I want so much
I fear too much

Far too human to let go
I fight the river and the flow
I fight the love and the fear
I do not want to leave you here
In one body you appear
In this dream

I dream and I still want so much
To touch the inside
I dream and I still want to stay
Inside this dream with you

Now I know
That every dream begins with you
And ends in time
Now I know
That maybe I am too alive

If I could speak in tongues of flame
I'd burn forever with your name
And take it with me through all time
I would remember who you are
In every life I'd touch your heart
In every dream

I dream and I still want so much
To touch the inside
I dream and I still want to stay
Inside this dream with you

[Renmiri1]

Since some people are talking about If, When, How, When Solas loved Lavellan, I did a thing. I edit a lot of videos and took screen shots of what his facial expression was when no one else was looking or could not see his face and was thinking about/interacting with Lavellan. Solas is a deeply reserved a private man, I can only assume he would not show his true face when people are looking at him. Much like a sociopath....

 

 

Solas looking at Lavellan as everyone sings to her/mourns or whatever. Looking at her like she's meat. Some would say this is sexy. However I think at this point he just sees her as a very useful pawn and desires that. Remember that he used to be really manipulative when he was at full power.

 

 

 

Looking at her when she sees skyhold. A little less "wolfish" and a bit more curious. I like to imagine skyhold was built on top of his old sacred ground. Maybe he's a little less intent on using her as a pawn and sees her slightly more as an equal. 

 

 

After the second kiss when he is turned away from her. Is that guilt? Shame? Maybe he feels bad for still trying to use her, but also can't help loving her. Apparently we are in a teen RomCom from 1998. I love it.

 

After third kiss and he says he has to not be with her anymore. I think in the moment before he really knew he loved her and couldn't do it anymore. Like all his lies and deceit to her came crashing down and he knew he was a real a**hole. 

 

 

Here we are when Lavellan feels bad that the/his orb is broken. "It's not your fault". I think he might be a changed man at this point.

 

 

One last look.

 

 

 

Conclusion: He was probably intent on using her and everyone else to his own gains at first. But she surprises him and this makes him feel empathy and remorse. He makes connections with other people, and small friendships. All he has now is guilt and regret, and a feeling that he must atone for his actions. 

 

He's been alone and manipulative for so long, I think it's hard for him to just be honest with someone. Which is why he just leaves. he doesn't know how to express any of those feelings and it probably hurts and is confusing. Which is why feelings are bad and you should never do them. 

 

TL;DR: Lavellan p**** so good it can change the moral alignment of a god. 

 

I don't see him all that manipulative. To me he stayed with the inquisition out of guilt, he wanted to atone for causing all that suffering for the people mourning Justinia and scared to death of the growing rift. He could have ran away but he didn't because he felt bad for them.. and for that innocent Dalish elf girl, almost dying with a fade anchor in her hand, due to his folly.

 

When he sees all people from Haven singing for LAvellan he is like "I'll be damned, no one has ever respected and honored an Elf like that since Shartan (which I suspect it was Solas passing as mortal) so he is not manipulative he is pretty surprised and impressed with that Dalish girl, which he has started to admire. Of course it helps his plans a bit but the look there is more of surprise than of machinations. Then after the fade kiss, he is hooked but he thinks she will not survive the battle to kill Cory so he is ambivalent at first. But he knows that if the "Dalish girl" dies he would not forgive himself for never having been with her so he yields.

 

Then he falls in love and also realizes she is stronger than she looks and she might as well survive the final battle. So he pushes her away afraid of his own feelings for Lavellan

[BlackCat]

Spoiler

I think he just saying what Solas' Spirit of Wisdom friend would have said if she were to sum up Solas.

I adore Cole and love taking him with because of the insight you get into the other characters. Through him the characters seemed more in-depth and multidimensional than in the previous games. For example you learn some very private moments about Vivienne where she fears and doesn't always have all her stuff together.

 

I responded to that post not realizing you already had. But yeah, I interpreted this the same way.