I always took them to be more of a parable type thing than an actual retelling of a true story. That or something really got changed up in the translation over the years.
We could have asked Felassan, but he's dead. And I don't think Patrick would tell us.
If you want to read Felassan's stories they're in Fen'Harel's page in the DA wiki.
Hey, it has been 1000 years since this all happened. Maybe a more since the elves has serious troubles happening even before the Tevinter Imperium took over. Someone murdered Mythal, sealed the rest of the gods away and probably other terrible things followed to make the elves war with each other and cause chaos before they were turned into slaves. You'd be hard pressed to find something that hasn't been mistranslated.
Damn, what if the Old Gods of the Tevinter Imperium were dragons with elf god souls inside them that manifested as darker aspects of their personalities? Could be part of the reason Solas conflicts with the Grey Wardens so much. Kill an Old God, destroy the soul, and you lose whatever wisp or soul of that elven god their was.
Unless you're a parent raising teenagers!!
I like your thinking on those qualities representing different aspects of the Dread Wolf.
I think that the heirophant card and the tower card are probably both accurate representations of aspects of his personality, and the magician card, too, for that matter. I think it's one of those things where we're trying to break down a complicated character, but we don't have all the information. This just makes me think of the dialogue options you can occasionally pick that equate to, "It's more complicated than that," which are the types of choices Solas seems to approve of. LOL
I might not think that tricking others is his nature, but I think its also good not to close our eyes on the fact that it is something he does. Maybe not because he wants to, more because he feels he needs to, but it is still part of his way to interact with the world.
True. I think ultimately he behaves no differently than any other clever, powerful being would when trying to achieve their goals. Often it's the underhanded methods rather than the straightforward ones that garner the most successful results. I feel like trickery, deception are probably things every member of the elven pantheon partook in, maybe even more than Solas.
Hey, it has been 1000 years since this all happened. Maybe a more since the elves has serious troubles happening even before the Tevinter Imperium took over. Someone murdered Mythal, sealed the rest of the gods away and probably other terrible things followed to make the elves war with each other and cause chaos before they were turned into slaves. You'd be hard pressed to find something that hasn't been mistranslated.
Damn, what if the Old Gods of the Tevinter Imperium were dragons with elf god souls inside them that manifested as darker aspects of their personalities? Could be part of the reason Solas conflicts with the Grey Wardens so much. Kill an Old God, destroy the soul, and you lose whatever wisp or soul of that elven god their was.
Solas says at one point that there is nothing that connects the Old Gods with the Elvhen Creators. He then says something about not believing that either the Old Gods of the Elvhen gods were real deities, which makes me think he believes they're separate. I think it's one of the options you can get after the Temple and may only be available if you're not romancing him, but I'm not sure.
Aside from that, the ideas that the Elvhen gods represent are pretty concrete, as opposed to the Old Gods which are a little more... I can't think of the right word... broad? esoteric? spiritual? The Elvhen gods are mostly attached to things the Dalish encountered in their lives: the mother, the father, the hearth-mistress, the huntress, the craftsman, etc.. The Old Gods mostly represent ideas: silence, beauty, chaos, mystery, etc. Could they have been perverted? Sure, but I think it's more likely that they're separate.
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That's true as well, lol. He doesn't really approve of oversimplification, which is easy for us to do since we only have a couple of the edge pieces of this puzzle. I wonder if there is any cut dialogue that are still in the game files that we could listen to. Heck, even just the bit where he's supposed to beg you at the Well of Sorrows would probably reveal something. It's only a bug that he doesn't say anything more than "no. don't ask again"
True. I think ultimately he behaves no differently than any other clever, powerful being would when trying to achieve their goals. Often it's the underhanded methods rather than the straightforward ones that garner the most successful results. I feel like trickery, deception are probably things every member of the elven pantheon partook in, maybe even more than Solas.
You know who takes a resolute inverse approach to Solas? Bull.
Bull tells you hes Ben Has-something (oups) and that he is here to spie on you, probably lies that he wont send unveted info back, but he also says he can crush big things so you might as well keep him around. Eventually, you get to decide if he debomes Tal-Vashot or stays Qunari so the player is vindicated for the lie (players always hate not having the last word).
Then you got Solas who is like the boy-who-cried-wolf in a sense. Heres why. Solas is right that he doesnt need to be straight forward to help the Inquisition. so he postures and conceles. And that works for cealing the Breach and even for the entire game if your Inquisitor does not try to befriend/romance him. What he had not planned for is finding someone worth connecting with. But by that point it is too late to backpedal (well its not really too late imo but Solas might not see it that way).
If he tells Lavellan he lied from the beginning, how could she ever believe he loves her? He cant go 'yeah that was a lie but this now is the truth'. Its the classic tale of the trickster who tricks himself or the mastermind who falls in his own web.
I know, I was expecting an end scene, of them being in the fade. but nooo..we got nothing.
Speaking off. Wouldn't it be possible for the inquisitor to find Solas again in the fade? Or would he have some sort of defence mechanism to prevent her seeking him out even in their dreams.
Speaking off. Wouldn't it be possible for the inquisitor to find Solas again in the fade? Or would he have some sort of defence mechanism to prevent her seeking him out even in their dreams.
Speaking off. Wouldn't it be possible for the inquisitor to find Solas again in the fade? Or would he have some sort of defence mechanism to prevent her seeking him out even in their dreams.
Since he can apparently erase Cole's memory of talking to him during the post credits scene and keep him from his mind I imagine he can keep Lavellan from finding him in his dreams.
Speaking off. Wouldn't it be possible for the inquisitor to find Solas again in the fade? Or would he have some sort of defence mechanism to prevent her seeking him out even in their dreams.
Since he can apparently erase Cole's memory of talking to him during the post credits scene and keep him from his mind I imagine he can keep Lavellan from finding him in his dreams.
I actually tried to figure this out shortly after finishing my first PT. First, she'd have to be a mage in order to enter the Fade without using the mark, while lucid (i.e. not just while she's dreaming). I think that Lavellan cannot manipulate the Fade while there physically, if she can even do it while she's dreaming or while there in a lucid state. The game isn't really clear on this and there's some conflicting information on the wiki. Anyway, to get into the Fade while lucid she'd need a significant amount of lyrium, and/or blood magic, and/or other magics. Then there are two choices. According to the wiki, one can use blood magic to find someone if they are asleep, but only if they do not have some sort of defense against blood magic. We have no idea if Solas does, but the answer is probably yes. The second choice is to try and bargain with a spirit/demon to find him. Which runs the risk of possession. So....you're either dealing with blood magic that may or may not work, or you're opening yourself up to being a demon-host and can you imagine how horrible a demon possessing the body of someone with the Anchor would be? (If Lavellan happened to have a phylactery of Solas' blood she could use that pretty easily though)
My headcanon is that she finds a spirit of Purpose and gives it a mission to go find the dumbo to deliver a message. She knows that Solas has a soft spot for spirits and won't deny Purpose its, well, purpose, even if he wants to disappear without a trace. She only does it once, to let him know that he doesn't have to be alone, but I like that he can't just be all kkthxbai with no repercussions the jerk.
Interrupting this broadcast to say: I really appreciate that we can have these thought-provoking discussions in a civil way whether we agree or not. Thank you.
It's kind of sad that this isn't the norm.
Spoiler
Thought of something to add: If you have the OGB scene, Morrigan freaks out when she realizes Kieran is in the Fade, because she says it is literally infinite. It seems like if he hadn't been just a few feet away, Morrigan didn't have a back-up plan as to how to find him. If she doesn't know a way to find someone in the Fade, I doubt the Inquisitor would have a lot of luck.
I always thought it was weird we couldn't ask him about his background or question him further about "why do you know so much about the fade/why were you at the conclave really/etc." The Inquisitor isn't stupid. They wouldn't just ignore things, right? I can imagine a lovestruck Lavellan ignoring things, I suppose, but regardless he does act suspicious on more than one occasion. I wonder if the lack of dialogue (such as not being able to ask about his art and so forth) is intentional so the shock of his reveal is more apparent.
Solas is a complicated character with no small amount of mysteries. He has many good qualities and flaws, and while we all view his characteristics in varying degrees we don't try to paint him as one thing or the other because we know better than to do that. I think that helps to keep this thread a civil one.
Found something, it seems Solas could read the future as well
It could just be a bug... or is it?
I always thought it was weird we couldn't ask him about his background or question him further about "why do you know so much about the fade/why were you at the conclave really/etc." The Inquisitor isn't stupid. They wouldn't just ignore things, right? I can imagine a lovestruck Lavellan ignoring things, I suppose, but regardless he does act suspicious on more than one occasion. I wonder if the lack of dialogue (such as not being able to ask about his art and so forth) is intentional so the shock of his reveal is more apparent.
What I find even weirder is why Leliana didn't look into Solas and his background. Any potential saboteur would be just as seemingly genuinely interested in helping and from the codex entry post-game it seems like she didn't need to dig very far to realize something was off. -shrugs- Everyone comments on how good a spy master is and how scary she can be so I guess it really doesn't make sense to me why she wouldn't at least do background checks on the inner circle.
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I think that made my night. 
Hmm, I wonder how Solas evaded Lelianna's spies so easily after the ending. I wonder if in addition to his intelligence and charisma, one of his magical specialties involve rogue-like attributes. Like maybe he cast a spell on people to make them overlook him. Stuff like that.
Come to think of it, Solas is kind of like a rogue. He's stealthy and some players don't notice him because he doesn't have a in-your-face personality. But then when he comes out of stealth he stabs you in the heart. T_T
I'm running through the break-up again and I found a dialogue choice that I like. When you tell him that you're not giving up on him, he goes all wide-eyed, and his voice breaks as he says "you truly should." He was definitely expecting anger and sadness, but Terrwyn tells him upfront: "**** no, i'm not giving up on you, we can find whatever you need together." You can tell how genuinely bewildered he is; and when he turns away, his voice breaks again when he says "i'm sorry." I find this path interesting, like a part of him considered that maybe she would understand - but there is also that fear that she would definitely hate him when she finds out everything.
I am feeling bummed guys. I need happy things.
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