153455 réponses à ce sujet

[Sinaxi]

No, on Act 1 Anders says that losing Hawke would kill you as surely as templars would

On Act 2 he also says he would "drown us in blood to protect you" 

Only on Act 3 he says he loves Hawke more than anything he has loved in his life.. but sometimes are worth even more than life. 

 

I don't think he would, otherwise he would have just cut Lavellan's hand to get the orb back.  He didn't, he honestly worked with her to save all of Thedas. I think he might have gone to sleep as this ruthless guy but thousands of years in the fade with wise and gentle spirits and seeing humans / elves / dwarves and even qunary unite for the greated good must have mellowed him out.

Yes? The lines you brought up simply demonstrate that, yes, Anders cares about Hawke. He cares about keeping them safe, but that doesn't mean he will renege on his original goals. That was abundantly clear during the romance. Anders saying he loves Hawke more than anything in his life is true - but again, some things DO matter to him more than his life. It's why he did not immediately pursue a relationship with Hawke, because he knew inevitably the mage cause would come first and he wasn't sure if they were willing to stand by him in that. Professing how much he loves Hawke doesn't change the fact that he was always going to work to free mages. This is....the entire point of his character, so the lines you are bringing up make no sense because you're acting as if he changed his mind from Act 1 to Act 3 when he never did.

 

Solas joins the Inquisition to right his mistakes, which was the opening of the Breach, and to retrieve the orb that he gave Corypheus. So yeah, of course he worked with her to fix his own mistake. Let us not forget that Solas has caused more death than even Anders. He willingly handed his orb over to an ancient magister and let him conduct a ritual with it which - when the Inquisitor interrupted it - caused an enormous tear in the Veil, resulting in the destruction of the conclave and the multitudes of deaths that followed from the rifts all over Thedas. Even if you want to argue this was "indirectly" his fault and/or an accident, he still knew what he was doing. He knew he was handing over something with extreme power to a madman.

 

I'm not going to speculate if Solas was more ruthless in the past or not, as we have no evidence either way regarding his behavior. He did what he felt was necessary to save the elven people, he locked the gods away and thought he was making their lives better. He demonstrates ruthlessness in present day - Solas kills three mages in the game, he is not above murder. He tells Vivienne point blank in a banter that he would execute mages who committed crimes if he needed to. And if we are led to believe in these dev notes, then it makes me more liable to believe he truly was the figure at the end of the Masked Empire who did, indeed, kill Felassan. For what purpose, I'm not entirely sure. He may have believed Felassan ~betrayed him and impeded upon his goals. But, yeah, it's not a stretch.

 

He doesn't lack the will to get blood on his hands.

[BubbleDncr]

I don't think they would have Solas just flat out kill the Inquisitor to achieve his goals - that just seems like the least interesting place to take the story to me. Something more complicated, please. 

[Prince of Keys]

Interestinggggggggg

Can you get us a picture?

Maybe it's relevant only to the game, she has a staff, the card is different, it's interesting they'd do that.

 

I posted them a while ago; here are the elf race cards included with the physical tarot deck:

[scintilla]

@Sinaxi: Your last few posts have been very good but I'm out of likes.

 

I can imagine him knocking her out or something, but I don't think he would kill her. Actually, if the writers decide to make Solas kill the inquisitor so that he really becomes a villain that everyone hates in the next game, I'm going to throw chairs. If Solas seriously hurts my Lavellan, that could actually be a bit traumatic for me even if it's a video game.

 

I don't think they would have Solas just flat out kill the Inquisitor to achieve his goals - that just seems like the least interesting place to take the story to me. Something more complicated, please. 

 

I really don't think he's going to kill the Inquisitor. I just think, given the evidence we have, that he'd be willing to if he felt it was necessary. Which may come up, if the Inquisitor ever encounters him again.

[Renmiri1]

Well I don't see Anders as clear cut as you

 

To me he tried every way he could think of freeing hte mages without violence. For 10 years. After all that time and with Meredith going red lyrium insane and the Right of Annulment in her hand he just decided he could not let a bloodbath against his own people happen without him doing something to stop it. But what he did he could have done any year before and he didn't. Just like Orsino, he was driven to despair, with Anders we also had Justice / Vengeance getting more power over him with all the horrible stuff Meredith was doing.

 

So yes, Anders did change. Nothing prevented him from blowing up the chantry on day one he got to Kirkwall. Nothing besides his own will. He changed his mind about the need to do that to stop a massacre against mages. He didn't arrive in Kirkwall to kill clerics.

 

People grow and change. Or get desperate and corrupted by circumstances.

 

As for the orb, I can't finds the text but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere Solas did not give the orb to Cory. He ws asleep. Cory stole it, thanks to Solas being careless. But even if he did, it wasn't as clear cut as you make it seem. Cory never recognized Solas. Solas says he never expected Cory to be able to manipulate the orb in that way. What happened was not part of any scheme by Solas.

 

And if he needs the Inquisition that much, why does he leave ?  If he doesn't why did he stay so long ? You are making a black and white character in your mind and forgetting Solas - and Bioware - are all about nuance.

 

 

 This is....the entire point of his character, so the lines you are bringing up make no sense because you're acting as if he changed his mind from Act 1 to Act 3 when he never did.

 

You couldn't be more wrong. He could have blown up the Chantry on his first day on Kirkwall. Anders didn't. He changed. You missed it completely. It is a pity because he is a pretty fascinating character.

[scintilla]

So yes, Anders did change. Nothing prevented him from blowing up the chantry on day one he got to Kirkwall. Nothing besides his own will. He changed his mind about the need to do that to stop a massacre against mages. He didn't arrive in Kirkwall to kill clerics.

 

Anders' priorities never changed. The actions he was willing to take did.

 

And according to the in game dialogue between Flemythal and Solas in the stinger, Solas gave his orb to Corypheus because he was too weak to activate it. Corypheus not recognizing Solas suggests that he did so indirectly but we have no idea how Solas gave the orb, only that he did and it was intentional.

[BlueElf2]

I actually think part of the reason he broke it off with quizzy might have been to try and minimize her involvement with him because he didn't want there to come a point where he might feel it necessary to kill her. He may feel that the less involved she is in his affairs, the safer she will be. I definitely don't think he wants to kill her at all if it can be helped.

He probably only went to Flemythal because he saw the orb was a lost cause; I don't think taking her power was his first choice at all. It seemed more like a last resort to me, so I like to think that while Solas will do what he feels is necessary, he doesn't go for the most destructive choice if a less violent means is available.

[NightSymphony]

I wouldn't be surprised if every single theory we've come up with is totally wrong.

[Renmiri1]

Anders' priorities never changed. The actions he was willing to take did.

 

And according to the in game dialogue between Flemythal and Solas in the stinger, Solas gave his orb to Corypheus because he was too weak to activate it. Corypheus not recognizing Solas suggests that he did so indirectly but we have no idea how Solas gave the orb, only that he did and it was intentional.

Not really, I heard it as a kid telling his mom he lost his wallet, so it's his fault the money is gone.

 

He was careless with an object of almost infinite power. Is it a big stretch for him to feel responsible for it being misused ?

[scintilla]

I wouldn't be surprised if every single theory we've come up with is totally wrong.

 

Neither would I. 

[Sinaxi]

Well I don't see Anders as clear cut as you

 

To me he tried every way he could think of freeing hte mages without violence. For 10 years. After all that time and with Meredith going red lyrium insane and the Right of Annulment in her hand he just decided he could not let a bloodbath against his own people happen without him doing something to stop it. But what he did he could have done any year before and he didn't. Just like Orsino, he was driven to despair, with Anders we also had Justice / Vengeance getting more power over him with all the horrible stuff Meredith was doing.

 

So yes, Anders did change. Nothing prevented him from blowing up the chantry on day one he got to Kirkwall. Nothing besides his own will. He changed his mind about the need to do that to stop a massacre against mages. He didn't arrive in Kirkwall to kill clerics.

 

People grow and change. Or get desperate and corrupted by circumstances.

 

As for the orb, I can't finds the text but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere Solas did not give the orb to Cory. He ws asleep. Cory stole it, thanks to Solas being careless. But even if he did, it wasn't as clear cut as you make it seem. Cory never recognized Solas. Solas says he never expected Cory to be able to manipulate the orb in that way. What happened was not part of any scheme by Solas.

 

And if he needs the Inquisition that much, why does he leave ?  If he doesn't why did he stay so long ? You are making a black and white character in your mind and forgetting Solas - and Bioware - are all about nuance.

? What? When did I ever say Anders originally planned to blow up the Chantry the same day he went to Kirkwall. I didn't. He tried peaceful change for YEARS and was repeatedly ignored, and his efforts went nowhere. He helped free mages with the Mage Underground, yes, but he was up against something so big that he feasibly could not make any real change without bloodshed.

 

He didn't arrive in Kirkwall to kill clerics, no, but he did arrive there with the intention of helping mages. He merged with Justice in the first place to help mages, to free them. He says he will kill anyone who stands in his way. Yes, of course people grow and change. Anders did become desperate, that is what happens when you are up against systematic oppression and you are one man, one man against the tide of seeing mages being beaten, raped, and turned Tranquil. He saw the absolute worst Kirkwall had to offer and he tried every day to change things, but it fell on deaf ears because no one would do anything. Elthina did nothing despite being Meredith's direct superior.

 

I'm not making this clear cut, I am offering an alternative view of the character. He has layers. Never once did I say Solas or Anders are black and white, you seem to be misconstruing my posts. Solas stayed to help fix his mistake, and kill Corypheus. When Corypheus was dead and he saw the orb shattered, he left. That was the end of his mission, that was the end of his time with the Inquisition. Yes, thank you, I am quite aware the characters are all nuanced lol. I am trying to say that Solas is nuanced in the ways that he is very capable of getting his hands dirty, despite also being the same man who approves of helping refugees, who approves of people's right to live freely, who believes in freedom of choice, etc. He is not one dimensional and I never said he was.

[Salad]

Ahh thanks for the answers! I'm quite new to this forum myself so sorry for being noobish but... how do you join the group? Is that the "follow topic" button? The groups tab on the top?

 

^^;

[Eivuwan]

Plot twist, Solas is actually a hero and you get to play as him in the next game.

[BubbleDncr]

Sigh...I gotta stop watching the final romance scene and making myself cry. Why do I cause myself such pain?

[BubbleDncr]

Plot twist, Solas is actually a hero and you get to play as him in the next game.

 

Only if I can give him a sex change. 

[scintilla]

Not really, I heard it as a kid telling his mom he lost his wallet, so it's his fault the money is gone.

 

He was careless with an object of almost infinite power. Is it a big stretch for him to feel responsible for it being misused ?

 

[Adynata]

I actually think part of the reason he broke it off with quizzy might have been to try and minimize her involvement with him because he didn't want there to come a point where he might feel it necessary to kill her. He may feel that the less involved she is in his affairs, the safer she will be. I definitely don't think he wants to kill her at all if it can be helped.

He probably only went to Flemythal because he saw the orb was a lost cause; I don't think taking her power was his first choice at all. It seemed more like a last resort to me, so I like to think that while Solas will do what he feels is necessary, he doesn't go for the most destructive choice if a less violent means is available.

 

I agree. Because otherwise why join the inquisition at all?

[Renmiri1]

Anders' priorities never changed. The actions he was willing to take did.

 

And according to the in game dialogue between Flemythal and Solas in the stinger, Solas gave his orb to Corypheus because he was too weak to activate it. Corypheus not recognizing Solas suggests that he did so indirectly but we have no idea how Solas gave the orb, only that he did and it was intentional.

They actually did. After almost killing that mage on Act 2 he wanted to leave Kirkwall. He couldn't bear being responsible for killing innocent people. Vengeance on the other hand always was willing to kill as many as needed.

 

What changes between the 3 acts is the balance of power between Justice and Anders, and Anders' belief a solution can be reached without bloodshed.

 

And to Hawke's shame, Anders  gets more confident in his cause after spending so much time with trusted friends. At start he had so much self doubt and self loathing he could barely keep a clinic in Lowtown going. He tells her that much, he would not have been able to reach so far without her help. And it's true, he would have ended up dead or tranquil long before Act 3 without Hawke

[BubbleDncr]

I agree. Because otherwise why join the inquisition at all?

 

To try and get his orb back. Cos he felt bad about causing all this and wanted to help solve it. 

[scintilla]

Plot twist, Solas is actually a hero and you get to play as him in the next game.

 

Stupid lack of likes. Have a bunch of hearts instead.                   

[Renmiri1]

? What? When did I ever say Anders originally planned to blow up the Chantry the same day he went to Kirkwall. I didn't. He tried peaceful change for YEARS and was repeatedly ignored, and his efforts went nowhere. He helped free mages with the Mage Underground, yes, but he was up against something so big that he feasibly could not make any real change without bloodshed.

 

He didn't arrive in Kirkwall to kill clerics, no, but he did arrive there with the intention of helping mages. He merged with Justice in the first place to help mages, to free them. He says he will kill anyone who stands in his way. Yes, of course people grow and change. Anders did become desperate, that is what happens when you are up against systematic oppression and you are one man, one man against the tide of seeing mages being beaten, raped, and turned Tranquil. He saw the absolute worst Kirkwall had to offer and he tried every day to change things, but it fell on deaf ears because no one would do anything. Elthina did nothing despite being Meredith's direct superior.

 

I'm not making this clear cut, I am offering an alternative view of the character. He has layers. Never once did I say Solas or Anders are black and white, you seem to be misconstruing my posts. Solas stayed to help fix his mistake, and kill Corypheus. When Corypheus was dead and he saw the orb shattered, he left. That was the end of his mission, that was the end of his time with the Inquisition. Yes, thank you, I am quite aware the characters are all nuanced lol. I am trying to say that Solas is nuanced in the ways that he is very capable of getting his hands dirty, despite also being the same man who approves of helping refugees, who approves of people's right to live freely, who believes in freedom of choice, etc. He is not one dimensional and I never said he was.

 

 This is....the entire point of his character, so the lines you are bringing up make no sense because you're acting as if he changed his mind from Act 1 to Act 3 when he never did.

 

That sounded pretty definite to me. A one dimensional character put in place to do one thing and one thing only.

 

It wasn't the entire point of his character to me. Not at all, there was so much more. Maybe I misinterpreted you but when people say things like above is hard to think they are  saying someone is nuanced.

[BlueElf2]

Ahh thanks for the answers! I'm quite new to this forum myself so sorry for being noobish but... how do you join the group? Is that the "follow topic" button? The groups tab on the top?
 
^^;

Look for an option to the side that says Group Members. If you click on it, the page it brings you should have a link to join the group...I think.

[Renmiri1]

I actually think part of the reason he broke it off with quizzy might have been to try and minimize her involvement with him because he didn't want there to come a point where he might feel it necessary to kill her. He may feel that the less involved she is in his affairs, the safer she will be. I definitely don't think he wants to kill her at all if it can be helped.

He probably only went to Flemythal because he saw the orb was a lost cause; I don't think taking her power was his first choice at all. It seemed more like a last resort to me, so I like to think that while Solas will do what he feels is necessary, he doesn't go for the most destructive choice if a less violent means is available.

 

I think so as well. He doesn't want to be put in a situation where he has to chose between Quizzy and his goal. As to who would win.. I hope Quizzy wins. But.. Anders eventually chose his goal so who knows ?

[Sinaxi]

 

 

 

That sounded pretty definite to me. A one dimensional character put in place to do one thing and one thing only.

 

It wasn't the entire point of his character to me. Not at all, there was so much more. Maybe I misinterpreted you but when people say things like above is hard to think they are  saying someone is nuanced.

 

.....What I meant was Anders DEVOTED his life to freeing mages. Not that it was all his character was, or that he did not have other layers. But as a base, that was the purpose of his character in DA2 and it was what he devoted his entire life to which he says multiple times. So yeah, utterly ignoring that he says repeatedly that everything he is doing is to help the mages is rather nonsensical to me.

 

Me saying his priorities - freeing mages - did not change from Act 1 to Act 3 does NOT mean I am saying he is not nuanced. That's not what nuanced means. His priorities did not ever change, his actions to achieve those priorities did.

[Minxie]

I'm not denying that they were good friends.

 

As for the rest, we're going to have to just disagree about this I guess. I don't think having him love Lavellan more than Mythal is some knock on the value of platonic relationships. But you do, and that's all good. The differing opinions in this thread are what gives it life! 

 

I agree. Something else to consider with this is that it's not as simple as Mythal just being a close friend and the ~drama of Solas being willing to kill someone he has that kind of bond with. She's also a member of the pantheon and seems to have had an important, leadership role within that pantheon, keeping the others in check, enforcing justice. She had duties which she and Solas took seriously (as evidenced by the way he defends her at the Temple). What happened in the credits scene is likely something they both considered another part of those 'duties'. I think 'The People' coming first is something they're in agreement on, and always have been. It's why I'm not sure him being willing to kill her, and doing so, on behalf of a mission to save the People, makes for a sweeping statement about how much Solas values his personal relationships (or even what kind of people he's willing to sacrifice or those he's not). Mythal is a special case.