I also think Solas is lying through his teeth when Cole says "when did you see it before?" and he's like "I didn't say that I had," and let's Cole think that he was mistaken. I believe 100% that Solas has seen a spirit become more human and is just being a fussy McFuss pants
I disagree. I think he has seen spirits try to do so before hand, but none actually succeed as Cole has.
From an outside perspective...it was just odd. My Lavellan wanted to point out to Varric that he can dance in moonlight and sing to flowers, but it won't make him an elf. And Sera can be an ******* all she wants but she's still an elf. You are who you are. Being more human won't make him human. Just as embracing his self doesn't mean he can't take the best from what he has seen in others and grow from there. But to change one's nature can also be harmful to them, such as the way it is with Sera (from my view). It turns to self loathing when there are things you can't change.
I think I missed the thesis
It's okay though. I will watch the finished outcome and I am sure I will adore it
Maybe. maybe not. It's my opinion on his morality. I'm okay with him being a chaotic neutral, while others believe he is a solid chaotic/lawful good.
I'm just building evidence to show he is chaotic neutral and sometimes chaotic evil. But he is not actually evil. Which is.... It's hard to explain.
Oh man, I just started a new playthrough, and my male noble Aubrey is such a ****** that Solas hates him.
And it breaks my heart, but... I must stay the path.
This has been bothering me for a while and I just got to this part with my newest Lavellan... When you get Solas to a high enough friendship level or whatever, does he refer to a female Lavellan as "lethallan" instead of "lethallin"? Because both he and Minaeve have been calling all of my Lavellans "lethallin" in conversations (the normal one with Minaeve and the pre-Skyhold one with Solas). :| Did they just get rid of "lethallan" or something...?
In my game, I had the subtitles on. Solas always called my Inquisitor "Lethallan" pre-romance (or during romance but not officially romanced, or... you know). It didn't sound like "lethallin" to me, even. You could have a glitch going on...
With Lavellan I made him more Human. I honestly wish I could have left him how he was and still complete the quest but alas.... I tend to agree more with Varric though: Cole made his decision to be more human a long time ago, and to make him a spirit makes him not-Cole. I think he even stops going by his name (though he says you can call him that if you'd like). He starts erasing his memories and it rubs me the wrong way, especially since my Lavellan considers him to be a "friend". My Trevelyan will probably make him more of a spirit because I don't think she's really his friend persay, and she thinks there's a "right" and "wrong" way for spirits to exist.
I also think Solas is lying through his teeth when Cole says "when did you see it before?" and he's like "I didn't say that I had," and let's Cole think that he was mistaken. I believe 100% that Solas has seen a spirit become more human and is just being a fussy McFuss pants
I, too, think Solas has seen it happen before. Perhaps it even happened with Solas himself. Here's the thing: If he's seen it happen before, and he's dead set on not seeing it happen again, why?
If you do make Cole more human, Solas ends up being pretty much okay with it later, despite the disapproval he gives you for choosing to do so in the first place. Still, since Cole hints that Solas may have seen it happen before (or it happened to Solas), and since we know he's against it happening to Cole... again, why? Why would he not want this for Cole?
I'm thinking, if it were in the case of Solas, perhaps he has regrets? Maybe he preferred being more innocent and pure, as a spirit? And if it were a different spirit, not Solas, then perhaps it's more a case of having seen that spirit-turned-mortal basically suffer from it? Maybe it was able to grow, but harmed by its inability to serve its true purpose?
It's too bad we don't know.
I wanted the option to ask Cole what he wanted out of his future. Or just not make the decision for him. =/ As it was, I went spirit the first time and will change that in my canon because the post Temple of Mythal scene where he makes himself forget made me uncomfortable. Points to BioWare for making spirits alien but I just... was too bothered by that to leave it in my 'canon.'
The last time this came up here, brass_buckles had a really good post on the pros and cons. It's probably buried forever though.
I hated that scene, too, but then I thought about it and I realized, that's how a spirit would stay pure. In the celebration scene, Cole was still very much himself, except for being happy he would soon be able to return to the Fade--even if he planned to stick around for a while in the living world.
It's also worth noting that Cole originally did not come across to be more human, which is what Varric assumes. Cole came across to help someone who was hurting, where the Veil was thin. Thus, Cole's purpose in entering the living world was more in line with a spirit than with a being that wanted to be human.
In the end, to me, Cole seems happier as a spirit than as a human. He's okay with either one, but he struggles less as a spirit and is pleased you didn't feel he had to change to be your friend--he was afraid you would think he needed to be something other than he was, that you couldn't be friends with him as a spirit. Note that Spirit-Cole hardly (if ever) smiles or laughs, and, of course, he does suffer from others' suffering--but he also very much enjoys teleporting around helping people and whispering encouragement to them.
That said I do not think there's anything wrong with making him more human. It makes an excellent story, and, perhaps, even Cole would agree that the struggle is worthwhile. He will tell you that you taught him that it is okay to change, and you'll still be his friend even if he does. He will tell you that before when he changed he lost a friend, and he was afraid it would happen again.
As for any pros and cons I posted... it's been long enough ago that I truly can't remember.
That said, it's definitely worth noting that Solas has more experience with spirits (and likely also with people) than Varric does. There is also that banter to remember, wherein Cole suggests he sees some kind of memory in Solas about Solas having seen a spirit become more human (or more elven?) before. If Solas discourages this from happening, I keep thinking that either something must have gone wrong before, or the spirit-turned-mortal must have deeply regretted losing what made it a spirit.
From an outside perspective...it was just odd. My Lavellan wanted to point out to Varric that he can dance in moonlight and sing to flowers, but it won't make him an elf. And Sera can be an ******* all she wants but she's still an elf. You are who you are. Being more human won't make him human. Just as embracing his self doesn't mean he can't take the best from what he has seen in others and grow from there. But to change one's nature can also be harmful to them, such as the way it is with Sera (from my view). It turns to self loathing when there are things you can't change.
I think you have a point, but Cole is essentially different than Sera or, say, Dagna, because he is mutable. Perhaps he can't become a human, but he can transform. Into...what? We don't know, but we can decide to let him try. Because of his nature, he can undergo a true metamorphosis without encountering the same obstacles as more concrete beings. The caterpillar can stay a caterpillar, and that is perfectly fine, or it can transform. For me, it wasn't just a choice between spirit and human, but more broadly between known and unknown.
Oh man, I just started a new playthrough, and my male noble Aubrey is such a ****** that Solas hates him.
And it breaks my heart, but... I must stay the path.
When I started a second playthrough I tried to do something different, but nope, even made my Lavellan look exactly like my frist one.
I cannot undo that effects Solas has had on me.
Oh man, I just started a new playthrough, and my male noble Aubrey is such a ****** that Solas hates him.
And it breaks my heart, but... I must stay the path.
You are braver than most. I both applaud and hate you. 
Full romance (I accidentally forgot one of the scenes. I'm going to fix that later) :
Thanks for sharing, I was always curious what Lavellan is like with Sumalee's voice. I don't know if I'll ever use the American accent for Lavellan, but she fits nicely for my Qunari.
Sorta off-topic:
My fiance and I went to our second Blizzcon in 2013. For the first time ever Blizzard had voice actor panels. Wish we could have went to all of them. We missed the panels that had Steve Blum and Gideon Emery. But there was nooooooooooooooo way in hell I was missing Jennifer Hale and James Hong. Sumalee was also at that panel. Was so interesting to hear about their process for how they came up with their voices for Diablo 3. Sumalee was the Enchantress. Her voice in DAI and D3 sound absolutely nothing like her natural speaking voice. And she is such a sweetheart.
When Jennifer Hale came out my fiance said he's never seen me look so excited and happy before, he thought I was going to burst.
I personally feel that Solas' role is bigger than the others, he will be seen in the future, he's been there in the past, his journey is long, he's been through a lot. The personal journeys of others aren't as big or as meaningful (and aren't nearly as complicated). Don't forget the Fool succeeds in what he wants to achieve in the Strength card, which isn't too far away from the Heirophant, afterwards comes consequences (I personally believe he will succeed, even if I won't like the consenquences >_>).
I also think that the fact Solas' romance card is visually similar to the Fool's is a thing, it's been bugging me since I've noticed it, and I'm obviously not the only person who's taken notice. Nothing really prevents them with adding a hint to tarot card you get when you romance the person who will probably change the world, again.
Maybe if we try we can connect the different points of the Fool's journey to Solas it give us insights, but I'm a bit too lazy to do so at the moment, maybe later. Also, I think Solas started out as the Fool, he's done some stupid mistakes out of naivety.
Setting that aside, I've been wondering...
What kind of dilemma does the Heirophant represent when it comes to Solas?
Hierophant knows a lot but a lot of it is self taught. He runs the risk of being a bit cold and unyielding, of thinking what he knows is always the truth. His judgement is considered law by him and he seldom reverses it. He might be merciless when applying his judgement. For sure the Hierophant won't be nurturing and gentle to those he judges wrong. He is more the stern wise man than the patient teacher. Although always open to learn, the Hierophant can be pretty set in his own ways, as he might consider himself the arbiter of truth and wisdom. If you win the Hierophant's respect you might be able to change his mind but getting him to respect you will be challenging.
Those are the negative aspects of the card as far as I know. A softer, more positive hierophant will be much more a mentor than a judge
When I started a second playthrough I tried to do something different, but nope, even made my Lavellan look exactly like my frist one.
I cannot undo that effects Solas has had on me.
Hehe, that's impressive. The CC and I have a feud, I don't think I could ever re-create my first.
I cannot wait to romance Solas as my elf Aithne in my fourth playthrough. I just want to be nice to Solas.
It is so hard sticking to Aubrey's character, I'm bad at being awful in game!
You are braver than most. I both applaud and hate you.
Can I hate and congratulate myself?
It's so bloody difficult! I take no joy in this path.
Yes that ia certainly true.From an outside perspective...it was just odd. My Lavellan wanted to point out to Varric that he can dance in moonlight and sing to flowers, but it won't make him an elf. And Sera can be an ******* all she wants but she's still an elf. You are who you are. Being more human won't make him human. Just as embracing his self doesn't mean he can't take the best from what he has seen in others and grow from there. But to change one's nature can also be harmful to them, such as the way it is with Sera (from my view). It turns to self loathing when there are things you can't change.
I think I missed the thesis
I did a cullen romance damn it was hard to stay on course and not go to start romancing Solas
Currently on my Solas Playlist
Did everybody see this? http://www.reddit.co...cene_explained/
Haven't put any effort into verifying it (or, admittedly, into checking if it's already been mentioned in this thread), but here goes. Apparently, this has been found in the game files about the post epilogue scene:
This, along with the fact that he wins his chess game with Iron Bull by sacrificing his queen makes me both intrigued and worried, but at least...
Not sure if this is accurate information, though, perhaps someone else can enlighten me on that point.
Also, sorry if someone already posted this. I didn't really have the time to check.
For Cole: I felt like him forgetting the real Cole was, not an insult to the memory, but a disservice because Compassion came across the Veil for Cole. I feel like you should never forget the reason why you do what you do. Granted, Compassion was always Compassion, but it changed so drastically because this human affected it so.
However, it is a difficult decision because Solas does say losing any virtuous spirit is hard when there are so few, because there will always be Pride and Rage. There is never enough Wisdom, Purpose, Valor, and Compassion in the world. Preserving them is paramount.
Hehe, that's impressive. The CC and I have a feud, I don't think I could ever re-create my first.
I'm replaying Terrwyn, it took me at least a day to get her face right.
I wanted the option to ask Cole what he wanted out of his future. Or just not make the decision for him. =/
So did I. My best guess was human, just based on the novel Asunder, because he was so devastated when he realized he wasn't real. It seemed like he wanted to be made "real" and wanted people to remember him. But in the game, his main concern seems to be not getting enslaved like the demons at Adamant, so either path resolves that problem and he's happy either way.
About the Cole choice:
More human.
First and foremost; Cole himself already made the decision for himself, who are they kidding?
Same goes for Bull, in my opinion. He was happy the way things were, as the chief of the chargers.
About changing your nature: to an extent, why not? Sure, you can't change what you are, deep down, you are born with a set of things you'll never be able to change, but that's not what matters. What matters is how you deal with it, and how you feel about it. Making Cole more spirit-y would take away some of what he became. He will always be Compassion. But he's also Cole. I won't take that away from him, not even a little.
Edit: Post makes sense now. It's late!
best romance like... ever
also i need a cookie now
*hugs*
*hugs*
For Cole: I felt like him forgetting the real Cole was, not an insult to the memory, but a disservice because Compassion came across the Veil for Cole. I feel like you should never forget the reason why you do what you do. Granted, Compassion was always Compassion, but it changed so drastically because this human affected it so.
However, it is a difficult decision because Solas does say losing any virtuous spirit is hard when there are so few, because there will always be Pride and Rage. There is never enough Wisdom, Purpose, Valor, and Compassion in the world. Preserving them is paramount.
I'm replaying Terrwyn, it took me at least a day to get her face right.
Something about how hard Solas takes the loss of the more positive spirits made me wonder:
We know that spirits are formed as a reflection of the human world, but I have a theory that the spirits also influence mortals. Just look at Nightmare. So, if you lose one more spirit of wisdom, the whole world becomes less wise. Cole is Compassion. Lose him, and the world will have less compassion, because even though he's a reflection of compassion that already exists in the world, he also reinforces and encourages more compassion. If he becomes a super-strong spirit, that's a good thing. If his efforts cause more spirits of compassion to exist, that is also a good thing.
Just my theory, and it would explain why precisely Solas considers the loss of even one such spirit so devastating.
This, along with the fact that he wins his chess game with Iron Bull by sacrificing his queen makes me both intrigued and worried, but at least...
I would not read too much into that, actually. I am not familiar with chess, but the match that Iron Bull and he played is a fairly legendary one played between two chess masters. Although I suppose they could have picked the sacrificing two queens symbolically, I think it was more about the importance of that singular pawn. [Which was what made the real life match legendary.]
As for the rest of the spoilers:
best romance like... ever
also i need a cookie now
Retour en haut
And nooooo, Flemeth! 
