153434 réponses à ce sujet

[SamanthaJ]

I don't think Solas at his most powerful is necessarily all-powerful enough to solve every problem. If the lore is any indication, while the gods were very powerful, they were clearly not powerful enough to solve every problem (blight, forgotten ones, getting themselves out of an Eluvian etc.). They are clearly limited in what they could do and their ability to rule for so long probably came from being in a group. A single one can only do so much. Flemeth/Mythal was very powerful but couldn't do it all. The orb tore a hole in the veil but didn't take it down completely. They are still in some ways very very mortal.

 

I agree with this. I don't think we can take their 'god' status too literally. Solas himself says they weren't gods. He'd know.

[LobselVith8]

Solas and Merrill might have some interesting conversations, but a romance? Too weird. Merrill is so tender and childlike. Personality-wise, she has more in common with Cole than Solas. I don't think she'd like his "ends justify the means" strategy beyond how it applies to blood magic, and I don't think he'd like her attempts to control ancient magic that she doesn't understand. Not to mention the whole da'len-hahren dynamic is exaggerated to the point of awkwardness. Weird enough to be dating a girl who's thousands of years younger than you; even weirder when she acts about fourteen. It feels like pedophilia, or something. Ick.

 

That's more than a little absurd; Merrill isn't "child-like" at all. She isn't similar to Cole in terms of maturity or personality; she's an adult with very dry humor, who is dealing with culture shock about a society that's completely foreign to her. Aside from her awkwardness about human culture, we see her handle things like an adult repeatedly. She handles magic proficiently, she never abused her blood magic abilities, she was able to discern that Keran wasn't possessed, and she was astute enough to distinguish the natures of the Profane Abomination and Torpor.

 

I also respect that she was proactive about the plight of the People, and tried to do something to help them; she studied the lore around the Eluvians and extrapolated information from the shard she took, which she later incorporated into the Eluvian she was constructing. That demonstrated a great deal of intelligence.

[electricfish]

The first time I played, I made a few decisions that Solas disagreed with including drinking from the well and making Cole more human. This time, I am playing some of the opposite decisions to see how Solas reacts. For the Cole decision in particular, it was an easy choice for me to side with Varric. I'm human so it was easy for me to understand that you're suppose to work through your emotions blah blah. I also just assumed that Varric was right when he said that Cole came into the world and chose to be human. I thought that Solas was just being biased about how great spirits are. However, after playing this quest again in a different way, I realized that Solas' point was legit as well.

 

Cole's original nature WAS a spirit of compassion. In a sense, Cole is a traumatized spirit of compassion because he only became Cole due to being unable to save the real Cole. Solas wants him to return to his true self because he believed that people are the happiest when they follow their nature. In my first playthrough, I was annoyed at Solas for putting spirits on a pedestal and not recognizing that humans have some strengths that spirits don't. Humans are less pure, but more complicated and resilient to trauma. They don't go 180 in their personality as soon as something bad happens. But then, in this playthrough, I see that spirits are superior in a way because of their purity. When I watched the scene in which Solas told Cole to feel the templar's emotions, I was amazed. It was amazing because a spirit of compassion can forgive in a way that no human can do easily. It is in a sense, an ideal way to be. As a spirit of compassion, Cole is less complex but more able to feel empathy for everyone and help everyone. That's Buddha/Jesus level stuff that humans can't do.

 

I wish we could have asked Cole what he wanted, but he approves regardless of the decision you make. He probably doesn't know what he wants. I think in general, people are happier when following their nature so it makes sense for Solas to believe that Cole would be happier as a spirit. I enjoyed the whole debate between him and Varric. I just really like how this game makes you think about philosophical stuff.

 

 

I went with making Cole a spirit the first time I did this quest. While both sides have equally valid points, I agreed with my Inquisitor that Cole is a spirit with magical vulnerabilities even if he does possess a body. There is also the fact that we have seen spirits become demons by embracing (or being forced to) the negative parts of the psyche. If Cole "becomes more human," that means he could take a much greater risk of becoming a demon if he goes down a path of less compassion. While not immediate, killing that templar dude without compassion is probably the first step to becoming...whatever is the opposite of compassion. 

 

I think down the line having Cole embrace more of humanity will hurt him, rather than maintaining his "true" spirit self. As Solas said, "spirits wish to join the living and a demon is that wish gone wrong." Human Cole may be ok for now, but what happens if he leaves the Inquisitor's side? Inquisitor X is a very grounding person for many people. So what would happen if Cole went to adventure on his own and edged a bit too far in the negative emotional direction because he couldn't quite work out a healthier way of dealing with the problem?

[Sashimi_taco]

Totally relevant:

 

 

 

source: http://incorrectdrag...st/106650034802

 

 

MY YUKI

 

YUKI HOW ARE YOU MAKING YOUR OWN TUMBLR POSTS!?


YUKI I THOUGHT YOU ONLY EXISTED IN MY HEAD.

[DarthEmpress]

Man, I hope we're not giving Weekes any horrible/heart-wrenching ideas in here...  I mean, I love that stuff, but I at least want the option for Lavellan to have a decent, at the very least bittersweet ending with Solas :/

[Mims]

I don't think Solas at his most powerful is necessarily all-powerful enough to solve every problem. If the lore is any indication, while the gods were very powerful, they were clearly not powerful enough to solve every problem (blight, forgotten ones, getting themselves out of an Eluvian etc.). They are clearly limited in what they could do and their ability to rule for so long probably came from being in a group. A single one can only do so much. Flemeth/Mythal was very powerful but couldn't do it all. The orb tore a hole in the veil but didn't take it down completely. They are still in some ways very very mortal.

 

It is also very possible that Solas will never be as powerful as he once was. While it could be game mechanics, presumably he was not just playing the world's best actor when he allowed himself to be captured and tortured for a year. I think he's little more than a powerful mage at the moment. With Mythal he's certainly more powerful...but she wasn't at full capacity either. 

 

Spoiler

And if the design document is to be believed, Mythal's power is just on loan to him.

 

If he has no way of absorbing the Inquisitor's anchor [which according to Corypheus won't be possible unless she's dead], his powers may be essentially at an end as far as world shaking goes. Its hard to say. 

[SamanthaJ]

So I was stalking the developer's twitter likes many of us probably do, and I saw this.

 

 

And for a second I thought he was talking about Solas.

[DarthEmpress]

I'm glad Shartan's sporting the plaidweave. 

 

Best fabric in the game. DAT YELLOW. 

 

Isn't that Disciple Havard though?  Carrying Andraste's ashes???

[Hattress]

I think it's very unlikely that they'll do it. For one, there would be no cameo and any mention would have to involve why god!Inquisitor wasn't helping the heroes. Unless both of the next planned games involve smaller scale stories like Hawke's, they would have really no excuse for not bringing the god!Inquisitor back. Except, you know, gods make conflict difficult.

 

I'm actually not certain we'll see Solas again until the end of the series. If what he does is seriously world changing, they may not want to deal with the aftermath of the changes. I agree that they aren't going to kill him off in DLC though. We're probably not going to really see him again in DLC. There will probably be some mention of what he's doing though.

 

If he's an antagonist for even one game, he and Lavellan aren't going to be together. If he dies at the end of that game, he and Lavellan aren't going to be together. Like I said, taking away his power is one of the very few ways that he won't have to die, disappear, or be an enemy. It's better than a lot of endings he could have.

I think what Solas is up to will reveal soon, either in DLC or DA4. It makes no sense throw out a big hook and have players wait years to get the answer, nor leave a romance without closure.

Besides, I think we now get all the information we need to receive some big changes -- we now have solid background about races, history and nations of Thedas, we know part of the truth of old god, elvhen gods and get hints of the potential big bad behind blight/red lyrium/whoever convinced magisters to intrude the Golden City

 

It just come up to me that if they want to use Solas and Flemath in future DA series, they might give a closure of the romance in the way that Solas promise Lavellan when all if over and if they are both alive, he will come back to her?

[scintilla]

I don't think Solas at his most powerful is necessarily all-powerful enough to solve every problem. If the lore is any indication, while the gods were very powerful, they were clearly not powerful enough to solve every problem (blight, forgotten ones, getting themselves out of an Eluvian etc.). They are clearly limited in what they could do and their ability to rule for so long probably came from being in a group. A single one can only do so much. Flemeth/Mythal was very powerful but couldn't do it all. The orb tore a hole in the veil but didn't take it down completely. They are still in some ways very very mortal.

 

I agree with this. I don't think we can take their 'god' status too literally. Solas himself says they weren't gods. He'd know.

 

His knowledge and power is still far above anything a protagonist is going to have. He may not being able to fix literally everything easily but there are a lot of things that wouldn't be a problem for him that a 'normal' protagonist would struggle with. If he's both able and willing to help, and he's done nothing to suggest he'd take Flemythal's more careful approach, he could make a lot of potential conflict irrelevant.

 

Also I am out of likes, so it's not that I don't like other peoples thoughts, it's that I can't give them likes.

[_Lucinia]

So I was stalking the developer's twitter likes many of us probably do, and I saw this.

 

 

And for a second I thought he was talking about Solas.

I love Kinder Eggs!  So glad they're not banned here in Canada.

[kalasaurus]

I usually side with Solas on Cole's quest but this time I sided with Varric for less complex reasons- I felt bad for Varric because Hawke just died.  I didn't want him to lose another friend, and he seemed to have adopted Cole as one of his own.  Varric seems genuinely sad if you make Cole more spirit-like ("He could have been a person..."), so I gave Varric that much.

 

I was surprised by how intense the "learning to grow" lesson is that Varric gave him, and I really like Cole as more human.  I think I may go this route more often.

 

Spoiler

[Sashimi_taco]

Understood. Either way its a great compilation of the crazy theories here on the forum. You have a knack with voice over. Keep it up.

*cough* fanfiction.. Write.. *cough cough*

 

I'm working on it. I know what my ending will be. It's the part where Lavellan learns elvish (so she can talk properly with Solas) that I'm having trouble with. I don't want to do a deus ex machina. However considering the nature of the story, a deus ex machina might fit exactly with the themes. 

 

Hmmmm.....

[vertigomez]

Totally relevant:







source: http://incorrectdrag...st/106650034802

This gifset gives me life.

[Eivuwan]

I went with making Cole a spirit the first time I did this quest. While both sides have equally valid points, I agreed with my Inquisitor that Cole is a spirit with magical vulnerabilities even if he does possess a body. There is also the fact that we have seen spirits become demons by embracing (or being forced to) the negative parts of the psyche. If Cole "becomes more human," that means he could take a much greater risk of becoming a demon if he goes down a path of less compassion. While not immediate, killing that templar dude without compassion is probably the first step to becoming...whatever is the opposite of compassion. 

 

I think down the line having Cole embrace more of humanity will hurt him, rather than maintaining his "true" spirit self. As Solas said, "spirits wish to join the living and a demon is that wish gone wrong." Human Cole may be ok for now, but what happens if he leaves the Inquisitor's side? Inquisitor X is a very grounding person for many people. So what would happen if Cole went to adventure on his own and edged a bit too far in the negative emotional direction because he couldn't quite work out a healthier way of dealing with the problem?

 

I think Varric's assumption is that Cole would be less vulnerable to corruption in the easy way that pure spirits are. Humans are more complex and the complexity makes them more resilient in that way. However, we don't really know whether Varric's assumptions are true. Solas' theory has more current evidence to support it. Let's just hope that the amulet isn't easily broken.

[BubbleDncr]

I just realized, Solas isn't the only one whose reaction to drinking from the well doesn't make sense..according to IGN's wiki:

 

                 Drink From the Well    Morrigan Drinks

Cassandra         Approves                Disapproves

Solas               Disapproves               Approves

Blackwall  Approves if not Romanced Approves if Romanced

Iron Bull               Approves                  Disapproves

Sera            Greatly Disapproves            Approves

Vivienne           Greatly Approves        Greatly Disapproves

Dorian Greatly      Approves                 Greatly Disapproves

Cole                Greatly Approves           Greatly Disapproves

 

When I had Dorian and Cassandra in my party, they BOTH told me that Morrigan should drink. But apparently they disapprove after that. 

 

They really did botch that one when it came to companion reactions...

[Birdy]

Woo, Internet. And I must be running out of smut to share because all I've been doing is sharing fluff and funny lately.  

 

http://dragonage-kin...86264#t46386264

[HurricaneGinger]

Team Optimism, give me happy Solas theories and things. I'm feeling down tonight. 

 

[Birdy]

I just realized, Solas isn't the only one whose reaction to drinking from the well doesn't make sense..according to IGN's wiki:

 

Drink From the Well Follower Drink From the Well Morrigan Drinks Varric - - Cassandra Approves Disapproves Solas Disapproves Approves Blackwall Approves if not Romanced Approves if Romanced Iron Bull Approves Disapproves Sera Greatly Disapproves Approves Vivienne Greatly Approves Greatly Disapproves Dorian Greatly Approves Greatly Disapproves Cole Greatly Approves Greatly Disapproves

When I had Dorian and Cassandra in my party, they BOTH told me that Morrigan should drink. But apparently they disapprove after that. 

 

They really did botch that one when it came to companion reactions...

 

They messed up most of the conversation regarding the well and the quest.  The whole "I don't know my own culture despite being that First" questions an elf makes, is a huge one.

 

Edit: I'm pretty sure the person in charge at that time was drunk or high, because it just doesn't' make sense otherwise.

[Eivuwan]

I usually side with Solas on Cole's quest but this time I sided with Varric for less complex reasons- I felt bad for Varric because Hawke just died.  I didn't want him to lose another friend, and he seemed to have adopted Cole as one of his own.  Varric seems genuinely sad if you make Cole more spirit-like ("He could have been a person..."), so I gave Varric that much.

 

I was surprised by how intense the "learning to grow" lesson is that Varric gave him, and I really like Cole as more human.  I think I may go this route more often.

 

Spoiler

 

Yeah, this quest is one of the more well-done personal quests. It's a truly difficult decision to go one way or another if you consider all the variables. Both Solas' and Varric's methods of having Cole face the templar were emotionally touching to me.

[RynJ]

I think Varric's assumption is that Cole would be less vulnerable to corruption in the easy way that pure spirits are. Humans are more complex and the complexity makes them more resilient in that way. However, we don't really know whether Varric's assumptions are true. Solas' theory has more current evidence to support it. Let's just hope that the amulet isn't easily broken.

 

I don't think Varric's thinking that much about it. He doesn't know all that much about spirits.  Varric is intuitive and recognizes potential for humanity in Cole. Humanity (or dwarfiness, I guess) is what he knows and is more comfortable with so of course he'd think becoming more human is ideal.

 

@Birdy: There's a newer fill on the meme involving an Inquisitor doing certain naughty things from under Solas' desk while Solas is sitting there and trying not to react. If you haven't seen it, I recommend it. 

[Dr. Doctor]

I really hope that Solas' grand plan isn't to shut down the Veil to free the Elven Pantheon and have spirits and Theadosians live together like he stated in one of the first conversations with him. I've seen Book 2 of the Legend of Korra Solas, we're not doing this again.

[kalasaurus]

I just realized, Solas isn't the only one whose reaction to drinking from the well doesn't make sense..according to IGN's wiki:

 

                 Drink From the Well    Morrigan Drinks

Cassandra         Approves                Disapproves

Solas               Disapproves               Approves

Blackwall  Approves if not Romanced Approves if Romanced

Iron Bull               Approves                  Disapproves

Sera            Greatly Disapproves            Approves

Vivienne           Greatly Approves        Greatly Disapproves

Dorian Greatly      Approves                 Greatly Disapproves

Cole                Greatly Approves           Greatly Disapproves

 

When I had Dorian and Cassandra in my party, they BOTH told me that Morrigan should drink. But apparently they disapprove after that. 

 

They really did botch that one when it came to companion reactions...

 

At least Varric was consistent when I brought him... he just reacts with a "this sh*t is weird", and doesn't approve/disapprove either way.

[Eivuwan]

Team Optimism, give me happy Solas theories and things. I'm feeling down tonight. 

 

 

He will go back to her eventually cuz love.

[electricfish]

I think Varric's assumption is that Cole would be less vulnerable to corruption in the easy way that pure spirits are. Humans are more complex and the complexity makes them more resilient in that way. However, we don't really know whether Varric's assumptions are true. Solas' theory has more current evidence to support it. Let's just hope that the amulet isn't easily broken.

 

That makes a pretty good argument for pro-human. Do you think Justice could have eventually developed more human complexity if he spent more time on his own, and not jumped ship to Anders? He totally could have found a less decomposed corpse to inhabit so he didn't scare everyone. While his connection to things out of the Fade are more tenuous than Cole, it's possible he could end up like the Grand Oak (rhyming tree in DAO) where he just accepts it and develops slowly over time.