153442 réponses à ce sujet

[Brass_Buckles]

"I have a feeling that what happened at the temple of mythal must somehow... had been her influence"

 

-Morrigan talking about her mom/mythal

 

 

I just realized that Mythal has been out and about for thousands of years. Always helping heroes when they are in need. I always thought of it as just her helping around when she could, or when she thought it was amusing. But.... what if all the chaos of her actions has a plan? 

 

What if there is a specific reason she has involved herself with all the major events? What is she was pushing history in a certain direction? A long plan for her revenge/justice? 

 

Sashimi, did you see my comment about your theory on pg 1785?

 

Not trying to disparage your theory but I would like to know if you have any thoughts about it.  I think your theory might have something to it, but... there are problems with it.

 

Edited to add:  And I thought it was always apparent that Mythal/Flemeth had some kind of plan going on...

[QueenOfTheDales]

"I have a feeling that what happened at the temple of mythal must somehow... had been her influence"

 

-Morrigan talking about her mom/mythal

 

 

I just realized that Mythal has been out and about for thousands of years. Always helping heroes when they are in need. I always thought of it as just her helping around when she could, or when she thought it was amusing. But.... what if all the chaos of her actions has a plan? 

 

What if there is a specific reason she has involved herself with all the major events? What is she was pushing history in a certain direction? A long plan for her revenge/justice? 

Flemeth definitely has a plan. She's basically rewriting her way through history to succeed in her plan/goal.

[Sashimi_taco]

I definitely think she has a plan, and she's been working on it for centuries. Everyone, even Solas, is probably apart of it in some way. She wants her justice, even if she's at a disadvantage. She's had a long long time to prepare. 

 

I just want to know what her justice IS! I mean I for sure think Solas is part of this plan. She knew he was coming and she let him take the power. 

 

Who is she getting justice against? The other gods who killed her? I know it was Falon'Din who wanted to wage war so people would die and make tribute to him. Mythal and the other gods stopped him. Was it him to killed her?

[Colonelkillabee]

okay. I get that it might ruin imagination for some though, so I added the comment. It was good from you to point it out. ^^

 

Where's that brat Cole when you need him, eh? Forget! Forget!

[herkles]

anyone mind linking the podcast/interview with weekes?

[Brass_Buckles]

I just want to know what her justice IS! I mean I for sure think Solas is part of this plan. She knew he was coming and she let him take the power. 

 

Who is she getting justice against? The other gods who killed her? I know it was Falon'Din who wanted to wage war so people would die and make tribute to him. Mythal and the other gods stopped him. Was it him to killed her?

 

Are you so sure it's justice she wants, and not vengeance?  I seem to recall her mentioning vengeance.

 

Flemeth was betrayed by a man.  Many have assumed that it was a woman who betrayed Mythal, because of Solas's line about being able to carve "her" face... but given her attitude, I believe Mythal's betrayer was also probably male.  That leads me to believe that it was actually Elgar'nan.

 

Solas was likely betrayed by someone else, possibly while trying to achieve justice for Mythal.  I theorize that it was actually one of the elven gods we have spoken less about, or learned less about.  It may have been Sylaise, rather than Ghilan'ain or Andruil, as we tend to presume.  It wasn't Mythal, because I'm guessing at that point she'd already been murdered.

[Yaslana]

Have this to cheer everyone up! (don't remember if I posted this one last night, sorry if its a repeat)

 

 

Team Optimism Go!

 

Awwww yes please? That would be like a Kinder Surprise!

[Mims]

I just want to know what her justice IS! I mean I for sure think Solas is part of this plan. She knew he was coming and she let him take the power. 

 

Who is she getting justice against? The other gods who killed her? I know it was Falon'Din who wanted to wage war so people would die and make tribute to him. Mythal and the other gods stopped him. Was it him to killed her?

 

There's no way to know at the moment. I definitely think it could be another elven god [or all seven], but it could also be some other force we've yet to see. 

 

If you go with the blight theory- that the elven gods were somehow corrupted by the red lyrium, it implies that there's something else beyond the red lyrium. Something is playing the music that drives everyone mad. But we also know that Mythal considers herself betrayed. You don't tend to be betrayed by someone who was already an enemy. 

[Sashimi_taco]

Sashimi, did you see my comment about your theory on pg 1785?

 

Not trying to disparage your theory but I would like to know if you have any thoughts about it.  I think your theory might have something to it, but... there are problems with it.

 

Edited to add:  And I thought it was always apparent that Mythal/Flemeth had some kind of plan going on...

 

I didn't. Let me read it real quick.

 

 

"Sashimi_taco, I was thinking laaaaate last night and I came up with a flaw in your Dragon Souls = Keys theory.  Basically, Solas can't open an eluvian on his own so he tries to get Corypheus to do it... with his orb.  If your theory is correct, then that would mean that either Solas doesn't have his own god soul, or that a piece of everyone's soul was in that orb.  If Solas did have his own, then the eluvian should have opened for him without any other help.

 

I would theorize that instead of the god souls specifically being keys, the gods, if powerful enough, could open any given eluvian.

 

Otherwise, how do you explain how Solas wasn't strong enough, couldn't even use his orb?  Unless he's the only ancient elven god who is not actually an ancient elven god, which brings up other questions."

 

 

I should have been more clear in my brain. So the Dragon God souls are not the Elvehn God souls. They are separate entities that were created to be the keys. And Solas put those inside high dragons. The magic made the dragons more powerful and able to speak. There is a codex entry that says the Dragon Gods would have been "highly evolved high dragons". Which makes sense to me.

 

Just like how corypheus made an archdemon out of a high dragon. Solas made dragon gods by giving them extremely powerful souls. Souls with equal power to something like the well of sorrows. 

 

And I just thought. maybe each god had something like a well of sorrows that opened their own elluvian. And Solas stole them....

 

OH MY GOD!

 

Fen'Harel told the Elvehn Gods to go away and they did. And that is when he locked them away. He stole their keys and put them in the dragons!
 

HOLY ****!

[MadameQuizzy]

Are you so sure it's justice she wants, and not vengeance?  I seem to recall her mentioning vengeance.

 

 

I just really wonder if we see Anders/Justice/Vengeance ever again and if Mythal had her hand in him blowing up the Chantry. 

[Eivuwan]

Are you so sure it's justice she wants, and not vengeance?  I seem to recall her mentioning vengeance.

 

Flemeth was betrayed by a man.  Many have assumed that it was a woman who betrayed Mythal, because of Solas's line about being able to carve "her" face... but given her attitude, I believe Mythal's betrayer was also probably male.  That leads me to believe that it was actually Elgar'nan.

 

Solas was likely betrayed by someone else, possibly while trying to achieve justice for Mythal.  I theorize that it was actually one of the elven gods we have spoken less about, or learned less about.  It may have been Sylaise, rather than Ghilan'ain or Andruil, as we tend to presume.  It wasn't Mythal, because I'm guessing at that point she'd already been murdered.

 

I think Mythal was betrayed by Elgar'nan and both Solas and Mythal were betrayed by all the other creators who decided to side with Elgar'nan. I had this theory that Mythal and Solas wanted to free the elves, but the other gods didn't and that's part of the conflict aside from the whole lover thing. Maybe Mythal's lover was a slave.

[Ispan]

She also seems kind of...unstable.  Like she's just been sitting and stewing for thousands of years.  Won't go well. 

 

The interesting thing about Mythal vs. Solas is that Mythal has been out in the world interacting with modern people long enough to become... attached to some.  She's very kind to Dalish throughout the games and I specifically remember her telling both Merrill and Lavellan that they are bright and have come far, that they do the People proud.  Solas, on the other hand, seems to have been sleeping off and on throughout history so he seems to have a harder time relating to modern cultures right off the bat and seems to look down on almost all contemporary people.  Flemythal does feel a little... wonky... but she also seems to care.

 

Edit: OT but is anyone here really familiar with tumblr?  I'm terrible at using and navigating it so I'd really appreciate being able to ask someone more experienced a question

[SamanthaJ]

No one ever talks about June. I bet June did it. I bet June did all of it.

[Sashimi_taco]

No one ever talks about June. I bet June did it. I bet June did all of it.

 

June just sitting there knitting and laughing away.

[Addai]

But, but.. what about Garrus?  That was the most drama-free, totally positive, adorable badass romance in the galaxy. I guess there is the ME3 ending, though. I tend to forget that ever happened, willfully.

 

I do get the cynicism that female-only romance options aren't going to be treated with the same respect as the male. I was making cynical noises like that a few days ago here. It's because I think the suits might get worried about straight males eyerolling if they give too much attention to Solavellan, so they wouldn't greenlight post-game content like that even if the writers want to do it. At least I think we should be fair to the writers that they defend fangirls sometimes. Gaider has said he doesn't like it that people sometimes dis stuff just because it's the women that like it. So their instincts are good, but ultimately the plot of the story is going to dictate.

[Brass_Buckles]

I didn't. Let me read it real quick.

 

 

"Sashimi_taco, I was thinking laaaaate last night and I came up with a flaw in your Dragon Souls = Keys theory.  Basically, Solas can't open an eluvian on his own so he tries to get Corypheus to do it... with his orb.  If your theory is correct, then that would mean that either Solas doesn't have his own god soul, or that a piece of everyone's soul was in that orb.  If Solas did have his own, then the eluvian should have opened for him without any other help.

 

I would theorize that instead of the god souls specifically being keys, the gods, if powerful enough, could open any given eluvian.

 

Otherwise, how do you explain how Solas wasn't strong enough, couldn't even use his orb?  Unless he's the only ancient elven god who is not actually an ancient elven god, which brings up other questions."

 

 

I should have been more clear in my brain. So the Dragon God souls are not the Elvehn God souls. They are separate entities that were created to be the keys. And Solas put those inside high dragons. The magic made the dragons more powerful and able to speak. There is a codex entry that says the Dragon Gods would have been "highly evolved high dragons". Which makes sense to me.

 

Just like how corypheus made an archdemon out of a high dragon. Solas made dragon gods by giving them extremely powerful souls. Souls with equal power to something like the well of sorrows. 

 

And I just thought. maybe each god had something like a well of sorrows that opened their own elluvian. And Solas stole them....

 

OH MY GOD!

 

Fen'Harel told the Elvehn Gods to go away and they did. And that is when he locked them away. He stole their keys and put them in the dragons!
 

HOLY ****!

 

This still doesn't quite explain why Solas is unable to open the eluvians when he wakes...

 

As for the Old Gods... I think they are Great Dragons, but whether they are shapeshifted into that form, or they actually are Great Dragons who for whatever reason took form as elves... I don't know.

 

... Maybe the qunari were a misguided attempt to make more elven gods?  Maybe Great Dragons are so advanced that... this is weird, that say, Solas and Mythal were actually dragons in elf form?

 

... Yeah that's too weird for me.

 

Still, my point being:  Your theory needs to be able to explain why Solas, who presumably has an ancient god soul of his own (elven or otherwise), can't open the eluvians?  Why would he be too weak if he has the "essence" to do so, and Kieran, for instance, has no problem with it?

[Sashimi_taco]

This still doesn't quite explain why Solas is unable to open the eluvians when he wakes...

 

As for the Old Gods... I think they are Great Dragons, but whether they are shapeshifted into that form, or they actually are Great Dragons who for whatever reason took form as elves... I don't know.

 

... Maybe the qunari were a misguided attempt to make more elven gods?  Maybe Great Dragons are so advanced that... this is weird, that say, Solas and Mythal were actually dragons in elf form?

 

... Yeah that's too weird for me.

 

Still, my point being:  Your theory needs to be able to explain why Solas, who presumably has an ancient god soul of his own (elven or otherwise), can't open the eluvians?  Why would he be too weak if he has the "essence" to do so, and Kieran, for instance, has no problem with it?

 

 

I don't think he wanted to open the elluvians. I think he wanted to do something else. 

 

And as i said, each elluvian has a different key. That's what morrigan says. And i never said the god souls were the keys. I said the dragon souls were the keys. And things like Mythal's well is a key. Things with lots of power.

 

Having a soul is not enough to open any elluvian. You have to have the right power for the right door. 

[DraconisWolf]

I definitely think she has a plan, and she's been working on it for centuries. Everyone, even Solas, is probably apart of it in some way. She wants her justice, even if she's at a disadvantage. She's had a long long time to prepare. 

Agreed. The reasons for saving the Warden and Alistair are fairly obvious, me thinks. Hawke was a bit a mystery...She wants change , she says things have to happen because other things happened that never should have. Hawke was in the center of the rebellion, which is like a domino effect for other events to occur. One thing that stuck in my mind since Origins is Flemeth saying that unfortunately while the music keeps playing we all dance to it. She could mean it like in general about the circumstances and taking control over ones destiny, but this could also point to some other music. I don't know, it was just curious that she just repeated that in DAO and DAI. It's aso curious that her she looks at Mythal's betrayal as a betrayal of the whole world. It's not personal, like she needs to punish the people that killed her. Her murder caused something very serious to occur. I would love to know at what extend does her plan and Solas' plan overlap. It seems to me that they are kind of diferent , but she still didn't fight him.

Edit:

Solas for the top page. Still getting used to the forums

Edit 2: image too huge! abort!

Spoiler

[SamanthaJ]

Well that was a little bigger than expected that's what she said Spoiler'd for size. Safe for work.

Spoiler

 

http://adloquium.tum...into-solavellan

[Brass_Buckles]

I don't think he wanted to open the elluvians. I think he wanted to do something else. 

 

And as i said, each elluvian has a different key. That's what morrigan says. And i never said the god souls were the keys. I said the dragon souls were the keys. And things like Mythal's well is a key. Things with lots of power.

 

Having a soul is not enough to open any elluvian. You have to have the right power for the right door. 

 

Yes, but, remember that Solas "wasn't powerful enough" to open an eluvian, not that he couldn't because he had the wrong key.  And his key was the orb.  Does that mean Solas's god soul is in that orb?

[Mims]

If we're going complete full on speculation zone.

 

This is my theory. [Don't take this as any sort of canon or what I believe to the extent that I'm not open to other possibilities!] 

 

Long ago, the world exists in a kind of uncivilized state. For whatever reason, some elves are born with unnaturally strong ties to magic. Not a lot of them, but a few. This elevates them to the status of gods among their people. Eventually, all of them come together and agree on a noble purpose- to bring order to the world. To uplift their people and build an empire.

 

And so they do. They have their spats, and they play the game, but they have their goal. Some of them are perhaps less committed to the goal than others- Fen'Harel, for instance, seems like he might have just been along for the ride. Time passes. The elves in the empire grow more competent in magic. They can't rival the gods, obviously, but a fear begins to grow.

 

What if we aren't gods? 

 

Then, Ghilan'nain. She clearly has powers that rival the gods, and she wants to join them. Well, its easy to just accept her among you and bring in a sort of mythos around her. But she won't be the last. More and more elves are getting power to rival you. Some elven gods are less concerned with this. Mythal, perhaps. But the others are feeling control slip. They begin to tighten religious control over the populace, demanding things like blood sacrifices to ensure their control is continued. [Maybe take out a few of these extremely powerful mages while we're at it.] 

 

But on the side, they're also looking for new sources of power. Here comes Andruil- she's been hunting in the void, and she's found this lyrium that isn't like anything anyone has seen before. The gods obsess over the red lyrium, and it exacerbates their already paranoid desire to hold onto power. The streets run red.

 

Fen'Harel and Mythal find themselves on the outskirts watching everyone go mad. Perhaps Fen'Harel convinces Mythal to speak to the others, or they agree to do it together. And she does- she erases Andruil's memory of the red lyrium, but the others still have it in their possession. This time he can't quell them. She's now the enemy, and they kill her for it.

 

Fen'Harel is now alone. He's never been the hero before, but he realizes he's the only one with power left to stand between the maddened elven gods and the people. He devises a scheme to seal away the elven gods, assuming that this will fix all the problems. 

 

But it doesn't. Arguably, it makes things worse. The elven empire falls. Tevintar comes in, and sweeps away all the magical study that the elves had done. To make matters worse, the elven gods trapped in their prison can sing through the fade and seduce the magisters to follow them into the black city. The blight is reintroduced, but still they aren't free. 

 

The old gods in this scenario are the elven gods. As for what the dragons are- its hard to say. Perhaps Solas put a part of their uncorrupted essence into the dragons for safe keeping. Perhaps it is apart of what is keeping them trapped. 

 

 

 

...ooorr its just my crazy thoughts! Which is what it is likely to be. But I figured I'd ramble. 

[chibielf]

I loved the interview and the insight on Solas. Personally, it made me love his romance and character even more. I have faith in what's to come will be handled wonderfully. But again, I love tradgedy. As long as its heartbreakingly romantic.
The interview actually renewed my interest in playing anoth Levellan.

[Ajna]

Well that was a little bigger than expected that's what she said Spoiler'd for size. Safe for work.

Spoiler

 

http://adloquium.tum...into-solavellan

 

THE END. That's all I'd need

[Sashimi_taco]

Yes, but, remember that Solas "wasn't powerful enough" to open an eluvian, not that he couldn't because he had the wrong key.  And his key was the orb.  Does that mean Solas's god soul is in that orb?

 

I think Solas's key was in the orb. And his door was to the fade. While other's were to other places. Or to the same place.

 

He never made a soul out of his key. His key is still just power. And his key is broken. The only part left of his key is in the inquisitor. 

 

Mythal's key is in whoever drank the well. And Solas' key was in the orb and is now in the inquisitor (maybe). 

[Sashimi_taco]

If we're going complete full on speculation zone.

 

This is my theory. [Don't take this as any sort of canon or what I believe to the extent that I'm not open to other possibilities!] 

 

Long ago, the world exists in a kind of uncivilized state. For whatever reason, some elves are born with unnaturally strong ties to magic. Not a lot of them, but a few. This elevates them to the status of gods among their people. Eventually, all of them come together and agree on a noble purpose- to bring order to the world. To uplift their people and build an empire.

 

And so they do. They have their spats, and they play the game, but they have their goal. Some of them are perhaps less committed to the goal than others- Fen'Harel, for instance, seems like he might have just been along for the ride. Time passes. The elves in the empire grow more competent in magic. They can't rival the gods, obviously, but a fear begins to grow.

 

What if we aren't gods? 

 

Then, Ghilan'nain. She clearly has powers that rival the gods, and she wants to join them. Well, its easy to just accept her among you and bring in a sort of mythos around her. But she won't be the last. More and more elves are getting power to rival you. Some elven gods are less concerned with this. Mythal, perhaps. But the others are feeling control slip. They begin to tighten religious control over the populace, demanding things like blood sacrifices to ensure their control is continued. [Maybe take out a few of these extremely powerful mages while we're at it.] 

 

But on the side, they're also looking for new sources of power. Here comes Andruil- she's been hunting in the void, and she's found this lyrium that isn't like anything anyone has seen before. The gods obsess over the red lyrium, and it exacerbates their already paranoid desire to hold onto power. The streets run red.

 

Fen'Harel and Mythal find themselves on the outskirts watching everyone go mad. Perhaps Fen'Harel convinces Mythal to speak to the others, or they agree to do it together. And she does- she erases Andruil's memory of the red lyrium, but the others still have it in their possession. This time he can't quell them. She's now the enemy, and they kill her for it.

 

Fen'Harel is now alone. He's never been the hero before, but he realizes he's the only one with power left to stand between the maddened elven gods and the people. He devises a scheme to seal away the elven gods, assuming that this will fix all the problems. 

 

But it doesn't. Arguably, it makes things worse. The elven empire falls. Tevintar comes in, and sweeps away all the magical study that the elves had done. To make matters worse, the elven gods trapped in their prison can sing through the fade and seduce the magisters to follow them into the black city. The blight is reintroduced, but still they aren't free. 

 

The old gods in this scenario are the elven gods. As for what the dragons are- its hard to say. Perhaps Solas put a part of their uncorrupted essence into the dragons for safe keeping. Perhaps it is apart of what is keeping them trapped. 

 

 

 

...ooorr its just my crazy thoughts! Which is what it is likely to be. But I figured I'd ramble. 

 

 

I LOVE THIS!!!!