153434 réponses à ce sujet

[AryBoBary]

Little off-topic, just had this glorious banter between Solas and Sera (video link not of my playthrough, but you have to hear it to enjoy it fully.)

 

[BubbleDncr]

If anyone is bored and not easily offended, CAH is ready:

 

http://pyx-2.pretend...ame.jsp#game=56

 

Password:  Solas

 

I'm ready...

 

 

Thedas cards are active.

 

Need more players!

[electricfish]

Huh, well he did do a pretty unforgivable thing. Did people really romance such a polarizing character, spare him, and then choose to stay with him, because they cared so much what the world thought? I think that's missing the point of Anders' character.

 

Even still, I thought they did a decent job in DAI if you made that choice. I liked what Hawke says about him, if you romanced Anders, about how he wasn't just a monster or a hero, maybe both. My Hawke told my Lavellan that when she asked...perhaps she will remember it when she finds out what Solas did. I thought that bit made good foreshadowing to be honest.

 

Well, as far as game dialogue goes, friendmance Anders gets Hawke pretty deep in the vigilante/obsessive way of thinking. I didn't completely finish an Anders playthrough, but one thing I noticed is that while Hawke can start out kind of reasonable, the dialogue becomes a bit more...obsessive.

Anders is that crazy cult guy who writes a manifesto on freeing mages, loses himself further and further to Vengeance, desperately wants to cling to whatever humanity he has left, and only has Hawke to be his port in a storm.

Being around Anders and agreeing with his beliefs morphs Hawke into a bit of a fanatic, has this Romeo and Juliet thing going on where they'll be together no matter what happens, and generally goes down the path of dangerous insular cult thinking. To put it mildly.

 

It freaked me out a bit how...earnest Hawke became about doing whatever she could to please Anders and align with his goals/way of thinking. I couldn't finish the playthrough, but other people probably would have had their Hawke spare him at the end if they thought it was a "reasonable" course of action that would align with a fanatic Hawke.

[Brass_Buckles]

Hey, y'all, I'm back and Happy New Year! 

 

Hope I didn't worry anyone - that wasn't my intention. It's just...Solas' character hit me hard, and I had no idea why. I discussed it with my aunt who is so supportive in these matters, and we figured out why.

 

I don't know if any of you saw the Dragon Age Confession on tumblr with Solas + the emotional abuse...that was me. I can't tell you how hard it was to admit it, so now whenever I look at Solas I just want so badly for things to work out for him. Lavellan has become my hero.

 

I'm not going to quit BioWare games if something doesn't happen, but I do feel like tragedy happens too much in female romances. And, some tragedy is fine, I live for the hurt - but people are people. They have dark places inside them, and they don't need to be fixed, they just need to be touched and accepted. except for jacob because he never told us anything the jerkass

 

"You like people for their qualities, you love them for their defects." -Hellboy

 

So, I will continue with Team Optimism, and hope that we get the choice to stand by Solas' side.

 

I don't know what you went through, but I'm sorry it happened.  And I do agree I want something good to happen for Solas, and for Lavellan too (she could have lost her clan, are you telling me she needs to lose her boyfriend too, BioWare??? And at such a moment???).

 

And I definitely agree with you that heartbreak has been disproportionately given to female characters, and that we haven't seemed to get as many choices in regard to how things turn out as players of male characters.  Now, on the one hand that can be flattering since usually we get LIs who are closely tied to the plot.  On the other?  Seriously, these games are all about choice, so let me have my choices and let me have some means of determining the outcome, to some extent.  AND STOP MAKING ME PAY FOR MY RESOLUTIONS.  I mean I would buy your DLC anyway... just... seriously.

 

Huh, well he did do a pretty unforgivable thing. Did people really romance such a polarizing character, spare him, and then choose to stay with him, because they cared so much what the world thought? I think that's missing the point of Anders' character.

 

Even still, I thought they did a decent job in DAI if you made that choice. I liked what Hawke says about him, if you romanced Anders, about how he wasn't just a monster or a hero, maybe both. My Hawke told my Lavellan that when she asked...perhaps she will remember it when she finds out what Solas did. I thought that bit made good foreshadowing to be honest.

 

To be fair, you don't have to run away with him in support of his terrorism.  You can disapprove of Anders' actions and still run away with him.  It's what I did, and I did it because even though my Hawke deeply disagreed with what he had done, she still was pro-mage and she still loved Anders.  She told Anders she'd love him no matter what he did, and she meant it.  In truth, I think it's possible to still love someone who does something horrible, even at the same time you hate them for doing it.  But my character isn't me--I probably would have found it in myself to kill him for what he did.

 

And that's great, because, you know, choices!  Except you didn't have any means to convince him not to do what he did, and, while that's for Story Reasons, it's still beyond lame that that was the case, in a game that is supposed to be about choice.

 

Unfortunately we can never go back to the days of DA:O where our choices had more impact, because they keep making sequels.  Sequels mean that the story has to have some degree of predetermination, such that the decisions we make won't so greatly influence the future games that they simply aren't able to make a game that reflects all possible choices.

[Brass_Buckles]

When I hear about how Solas' romance is a terrible burden for "straight" ladies, I feel the same way I do when I hear complaints about Alistair's romance.  I have some non-straight male PCs that would've loved to take them off your hands. 

 

Actually Solas is one of the few cases where the heartbreak feels "right."  And when I refer to "straight females," I'm referring to the characters.  And guess what?  Straight men and gay men and lesbians and bisexuals can also play a straight female character.  That's the beauty of playing a game where you get to choose who and what you are.

 

Alistair is ridiculously difficult to end with a semi-happy ending, and every possible happy ending between the Warden and Alistair can only happen if you effectively send him to have sex that he doesn't want with a woman he hates.  It's not even the "with another woman" bit that bothers me, it's that he so clearly doesn't want to do that; it is very much a rapey scenario.  Also, the mistress thing... that to me is never, ever a happy ending--in no small part because you can be thrown out like trash, but also because I imagine it makes life harder for Anora and Alistair and Anora almost certainly wouldn't make life easy for the Warden-Mistress.  And if you send him to be a Warden?  Well he's a good king, the only good thing about making him a Warden is if you are a male Warden and marry Anora.  Granted it does keep the Wardens out of politics, which they are supposed to stay out of in the first place.  Although it seems there won't be an heir anyway unless Kieran becomes said heir eventually.  The best outcomes for Thedas (according to the epilogue slides) are Alistair and Anora being married, or marrying the Warden to either Alistair or Anora.

[TanithAeyrs]

Maybe I'm in the minority but if a tragic resolution makes sense for a romance I'm okay with that.  Sure, I'd love to have a happy Solavellan romance resolution but not at the expense of undermining the characters (Solas or the PC) or breaking the plot.   I suspect that the best resolution will be bittersweet, not only because of the direction the overarching plot seems to be traveling, but also because Solas and many Lavellans are self sacrificing types.  For Solas his personal mission overrides the best shot at happiness that he has and for the duty bound or more compassionate Lavellans there are responsibilities they will need to see through.

 

I romanced Solas with my practical Lavellan who is more likely to make choices with her head than her heart.  I think she would handle Solas being Fen'Harel with only some consternation given the information she learns about the Dread Wolf throughout DAI.   But, depending on what he does to change things she may find herself in opposition to him for the good of Thedas.  Doesn't mean her heart wouldn't break, just that she would do what she thought was right.  I hope if we get a resolution that the writers give us some sort of path through this.  I do have faith in the Bioware writers - even their tragic romances usually allow some glimmer of hope (although those that didn't still remained true to the character).

 

This is part of the reason I'm romancing Cullen with my compassionate Lavellan.  I think the Solas romance would break that character and I like her and don't want her broken.  Part of the fun of role-playing, taking characters down different paths because of who they are.

 

I think the Solas romance may be my favorite Bioware romance to date (it is running in close competition with Zevran's).  Very different romances, very different outcomes but both are incredibly well written characters who are so much deeper than they appear on the surface. 

[electricfish]

Rivalmance Anders is almost enough to get him to give up exploding things. I don't think there would have been anything to actually convince him not to do it, regardless of whether there was an opportunity for it or not. Vengeance has way too much power over him, especially by Act 3. Even if Anders would have actually said, "ok, I'll trust you and try something else," Vengeance would have gone NO **** YOU, WE'RE DOING IT MY WAY.

And then everyone would have been screwed worse because Vengeance wouldn't have sat around like a doomed man waiting for a guilty verdict at the end.

 

That being said, you make a fair point about the execution choice at the end. It's totally possible to love him, and disapprove of that gloriously inappropriate act. I guess I should probably play though DA2 again just to get a new perspective of his dialogue, but it just doesn't sit well with me how fawning and cult thinking Hawke seems to be. It's hard to be encouraging to him, but also be just distant enough to not fall into that way of thinking. Maybe it's just a dialogue/writing issue inherent in the game.

[zambixi]

TBH I don't really see a way around this; it's an inherent catch-22 of romance content.  BioWare has had romances that can end badly in most of their games.  On one hand, you want there to be variety in the stories you tell, especially in something like romance where people have so many different tastes and the emotions cut so close to home.  Happy romances, tragic ones, silly ones, sweet ones, etc.  Treading too lightly around those emotions IMO neuters the whole point of writing a romance.

 

On the other hand, you don't want to set off really strong IRL fears and dislikes from the player, but there's no way to "warn" the player without spoiling the content, and different things upset different people.  Books don't come with warnings about their endings, relationships, or twists; I know they're not interactive, but it doesn't prevent people from getting just as emotionally invested (see Harry Potter) and just as upset when things don't turn out the way they'd prefer. TBH I think they're doing their best, and Solas's story clearly isn't complete, so for all we know there could be a choice of how the story resolves.  

 

You're right: Solas' story is not over, and hopefully the romance will continue as well. I'm sort of salty/happy that the resolution could only come in DLC, but that's neither here nor there.

 

But I disagree that BW cannot "warn" players if the romance could possibly have an objectively unhappy resolution. Just look at DAI:

 

• Josephine - actually, I don't think her romance can end badly unless you royally mess up.
• Cassandra - can become Divine, which you know about well in advance, and can talk her out of, and support someone else for. Sure, some unlucky people have managed to make her Divine without meaning to, but it's not that hard to avoid and you know about the possibility well before the end of the romance.
• Sera - problems only really arise if you're an elf. She talks about hating elves from the very first conversation, and almost every conversation thereafter. Having her break up with Quizzie because they are too elfy shouldn't blindside anyone. And again, you can totally prevent her from breaking up with you by telling her you'll stop being elfy.

 

How would you go about warning someone about Solas...? I'm honestly not sure. I'm hoping it ends up like the Morrigan romance, since there was also no warning in that situation but the resolution is ultimately pretty happy for DA. We shall see.

[dragondreamer]

Actually Solas is one of the few cases where the heartbreak feels "right."  And when I refer to "straight females," I'm referring to the characters.  And guess what?  Straight men and gay men and lesbians and bisexuals can also play a straight female character.  That's the beauty of playing a game where you get to choose who and what you are.

 

Alistair is ridiculously difficult to end with a semi-happy ending, and every possible happy ending between the Warden and Alistair can only happen if you effectively send him to have sex that he doesn't want with a woman he hates.  It's not even the "with another woman" bit that bothers me, it's that he so clearly doesn't want to do that; it is very much a rapey scenario.  Also, the mistress thing... that to me is never, ever a happy ending--in no small part because you can be thrown out like trash, but also because I imagine it makes life harder for Anora and Alistair and Anora almost certainly wouldn't make life easy for the Warden-Mistress.  And if you send him to be a Warden?  Well he's a good king, the only good thing about making him a Warden is if you are a male Warden and marry Anora.  Granted it does keep the Wardens out of politics, which they are supposed to stay out of in the first place.  Although it seems there won't be an heir anyway unless Kieran becomes said heir eventually.  The best outcomes for Thedas (according to the epilogue slides) are Alistair and Anora being married, or marrying the Warden to either Alistair or Anora.

 

My female Lavellan is pansexual, so she doesn't actually fit into the "straight ladies" thing. 

 

And I would have taken any of those options with Alistair, even simply to romance him at all and lose him.  Fairytale romances are rare in Thedas, but having any options there at all is something.  My canon male Surana was in love with him, but it wasn't even something that could be addressed in the game outside of headcanon.  Not that it didn't end up factoring into the story in big ways.  It's also the reason my Hawke is dead now. 

[slmisfit]

If anyone is bored and not easily offended, CAH is ready:

 

http://pyx-2.pretend...ame.jsp#game=56

 

Password:  Solas

 

I'm ready...

 

 

Thedas cards are active.

Jooooin ussssssss.

 

EDIT: Fair warning that CAH is very offensive on purpose so... yes.

[Sashimi_taco]

AHA!

 

I found the codex entry that supported my point about the dragons!

 

"There were seven Old Gods, great winged dragons that were said to rule over the ancient world. The Chantry maintains that they are responsible for the original sin, that they turned humanity away from its true creator through deceit. Humanity's faith faltered, and thus the Maker turned away from the world--but not before trapping the Old Gods in eternal prisons beneath the earth as punishment. (i think this is fen'harel)

 

Scholars assume that the Old Gods must indeed have been real at one point, but most agree that they were likely actual dragons--ancient high dragons of a magnitude not known today, and impressive enough to frighten ancient peoples into worshipping them. Some even claim that these dragons slumber as a form of hibernation, not as a result of the Maker's wrath.

 

Regardless of the truth, legend maintains that even from their underground prisons, the Old Gods were able to whisper into the minds of men."

 

 

1.) Dragons were just dragons with something special about them

 

2.) they were stuck underground already and were talking to men through dreams or something. 

 

http://dragonage.wik...y:_The_Old_Gods

[jellobell]

Hey, y'all, I'm back and Happy New Year! 

 

Hope I didn't worry anyone - that wasn't my intention. It's just...Solas' character hit me hard, and I had no idea why. I discussed it with my aunt who is so supportive in these matters, and we figured out why.

 

I don't know if any of you saw the Dragon Age Confession on tumblr with Solas + the emotional abuse...that was me. I can't tell you how hard it was to admit it, so now whenever I look at Solas I just want so badly for things to work out for him. Lavellan has become my hero.

Ack, what a time to run out of likes.

 

God, I know that feel. So much. It's a wonderful thing to be so invested in a story, and for that story to speak to you in such a visceral, personal way. But at the same time...it hurts. Because some of the things it touches on are still very sensitive and raw and painful. Maybe that's why I have such a need for Solas to be okay. Because I recognize at least part of what he's going through in a very intimate way; the loneliness, the desire to connect, but the heartbreaking inability to do so. This is what it must feel like to be Cole. 

 

And, depending on where they go from here of course, I just can't be grumpy at Patrick Weekes for choosing to make him a romance. Even if it was only to fully show the tragedy of Solas's character. Because it was all so personal that it allowed me to connect with the character on a level that I never had in a Dragon Age game before. From the fact that he's a nerdy, introverted magical Historian, to his speech being matched to the rhythm of Hallelujah (a song that's very significant to me), I've rarely felt this connected to a fictional character. Of course, that can be a good or bad thing, depending on how all of this turns out. Usually, I try not to get too invested in characters, because at the end of the day they don't belong to me. I can't really control what their writers do with them. I think the nature of Bioware games blurs the lines a bit, which makes it even more difficult to realize this sometimes. I can recognize this intellectually, but emotionally, all I know is that if the only way to progress in some future Dragon Age game is to kill Solas myself then that is going to mess me up. And not in a good way.

 

Your post also reminded me of something that I've wanted to bring up for a while. I love the way Lavellan acts during the romance (or, well, at least the way that I RPed her). Confident, loving, and always reaching out to him. The "take all the time you need" option after the first kiss was wonderful. And the way she steps in after Solas has to help his spirit friend die, and says "I heard what she said, and she's right". Just the way AWR voiced that line broke my heart in the best possible way; compassionate and worried and understanding. I can really see how he fell so in love with her. But she's also a person, a person who loves him just as much as he loves her. And who is confused and upset and possibly self-recriminating after that final romance scene. The Inquisitor just felt so much more real to me after that. 

[electricfish]

I actually think the outcome of Morrigan's romance got some subtle warning at various points in the game. 

 

You know she wasn't all that into originally joining the Wardens. 

Her personality itself isn't clingy in the slightest.

She gives you a ring that is supposed to connect the two of you, no matter the distance.

If I recall, she's a bit wary of even getting into a serious relationship. Once it gets to "I love you" she gets remarkably closed off.

If you play Warden's Keep DLC, she makes a cagey remark about how she would be ok with using a spell to save the day, even if it was distasteful.

 

Admittedly, I haven't played through a Morrigan romance in a couple of years, but I'm willing to bet there are other points where it's hinted in lesser dialogue that she may or may not leave.

 

Solas though. Not sure about that one. Aside from the obvious "we shouldn't do this. not even here" dialogue in the beginning, he doesn't actually avoid getting involved with Lavellan. Maybe waits for her to initiate most of the time, in order to give her every chance to "back out" of the relationship. We don't get to see that, except for specific points in the game, but I'm sure it's there "off-screen."

[DraconisWolf]

Oh how I wish there was an actual meeting between Anders/Vengeance and Solas in DAI. It would have been glorious.Given how Solas hates perverting spirits from their original purpose. I imagine the meeting would be...interesting. Just another person disappointed by Anders' life choices...Get in line Solas, you are not the first person who's like: "DAMN IT ,ANDERS!".

[Tielis]

Well, as far as game dialogue goes, friendmance Anders gets Hawke pretty deep in the vigilante/obsessive way of thinking. I didn't completely finish an Anders playthrough, but one thing I noticed is that while Hawke can start out kind of reasonable, the dialogue becomes a bit more...obsessive.

Anders is that crazy cult guy who writes a manifesto on freeing mages, loses himself further and further to Vengeance, desperately wants to cling to whatever humanity he has left, and only has Hawke to be his port in a storm.

Being around Anders and agreeing with his beliefs morphs Hawke into a bit of a fanatic, has this Romeo and Juliet thing going on where they'll be together no matter what happens, and generally goes down the path of dangerous insular cult thinking. To put it mildly.

 

It freaked me out a bit how...earnest Hawke became about doing whatever she could to please Anders and align with his goals/way of thinking. I couldn't finish the playthrough, but other people probably would have had their Hawke spare him at the end if they thought it was a "reasonable" course of action that would align with a fanatic Hawke.

 

What I love about friendmanced Anders is that Hawke does make him (a bit) more stable, and they are happy together for a number of years.  S/he has a calming effect on him.  Sure, that's not enough at the end, but wow hey yeah s/he has a choice what to do after he loses himself.

 

How many of us would be making the same excuses for BioWare if the Anders or Fenris romance had ended with them leaving like Solas left Lavellan?  Just -- boom, sorry about your luck.  This is not something we should stand for, ever.  In a movie or book, yes.  In a video game, never.

[electricfish]

Oh how I wish there was an actual meeting between Anders/Vengeance and Solas in DAI. It would have been glorious.Given how Solas hates perverting spirits from their original purpose. I imagine the meeting would be...interesting. Just another person disappointed by Anders' life choices...Get in line Solas, you are not the first person who's like: "DAMN IT ,ANDERS!".

 

I'm pretty sure 90% of people who played DA2 shouted "God damn it, Anders!" after they reached the end game. That's the rallying cry of DA2, I swear.

[Missy_MI]

Just got done listening to the Nerd Appropriate podcast with Patrick Weeks. Great interview and also ouch.

 

You know, after experiencing crazy Mass Effect series emotions, I told myself going into Inquisition that everyone was going to die, including the player character, and that it was fine and I would not get attached to any of the characters. *shakes fist at bald elf* You should have been the safest romance option, you stupid fade nerd!

 

 

*ahem* So... has anyone discussed the part of the interview where Weeks talks about the break up scene and essentially says (paraphrasing):

Solas is about to lose himself and forget about the past, but then he has to push back and break it off right then or he's going to have betrayed himself.

 

Lose himself? Betrayed himself? Whatever Solas's goals are after Inquisition, they must be absolutely central to who he is as a person then. Maybe what someone theorized before in this thread is correct, and Fen'Harel was originally a protector of the elven people and staying with Lavellan and essentially leaving Thedas the way it is (with elves enslaved or as mere shadows of themselves) would betray that purpose.

 

I really like Fen'Harel's original purpose as a protector because it would be so much worse waking up after 1000 years to find the descendents of those you tried to help now scare their children with stories of how evil you are. There's a dialog between Solas and the Inquisitor where you can straight up ask Solas who his people are and he replies something like 'Good question'. Maybe he's not just being evasive, maybe at that point he genuinely doesn't know the answer because the modern elves are so far removed from what they once were.

 

Then in the aftermath of the Temple of Mythal, he becomes re-dedicated to his purpose? Just speculation, but I get the impression Solas has his own mini-character arc through Inquisition, romanced or not.

[KyndredRaven]

ME franchise aside, there's still Anders and possibly Alistair which have people in a huff. The two female LI's from Origins can be deliberately killed or stabbed by the Warden, but show up and are made crucial characters in DAI. One of them can show up with your character's child. If Alistair shows up for an extended period of time, there's a 50% chance he dies. Then there's Alistair's romance in DAO, which made me so angry I thought about never playing the game again. Anders is...a whole different thing I don't really want to get into too much. I never romanced him because I didn't like his character in DA2, but a lot of people felt punished for keeping him alive in DAI because everyone seems to hate him. Not to say that the female LIs are perfect sunflowers - Merrill is a blood-mage and Isabela betrays you (usually temporarily) - but  don't think it's fair to blame the grumblings about the male LIs only on the ME franchise.

 

 

 

Not sure what you're trying to say about the Alistair romance. Was there something wrong with it?

[Avejajed]

Heartbreak is given to women more because we're strong enough to handle it.

Its the end of the world when my husband has a sniffle, god forbid I ever break his heart.

I never would, of course. Lol.

[BubbleDncr]

If anyone is bored and not easily offended, CAH is ready:

 

http://pyx-2.pretend...ame.jsp#game=56

 

Password:  Solas

 

 

 

About to start another game, here's what you're missing:

 

NSFW

 

Spoiler

[Mims]

 

Then in the aftermath of the Temple of Mythal, he becomes re-dedicated to his purpose? Just speculation, but I get the impression Solas has his own mini-character arc through Inquisition, romanced or not.

 

I think its very possible! He seems genuinely surprised to find out that Mythal is still 'alive', at least in some sense. Mythal might have included Fen'Harel in her grand scheme, but up until that moment, I think he thought himself completely alone.

 

Which could also explain the conflicting pull. On one hand, Mythal is still around and the pressure isn't completely focused on him anymore. On the other, Mythal is still around, and he's accountable to someone.

[Avejajed]

I think Bioware could have gotten online and warned people about the romances and what they might trigger with people personally but I don't think they should have to.

[AryBoBary]

*snip*

 

No more likes, so a quote it is.  Thank you for expressing this, it mirrors my own feelings.

[k_drake]

 

AHA!

 

I found the codex entry that supported my point about the dragons!

 

"There were seven Old Gods, great winged dragons that were said to rule over the ancient world. The Chantry maintains that they are responsible for the original sin, that they turned humanity away from its true creator through deceit. Humanity's faith faltered, and thus the Maker turned away from the world--but not before trapping the Old Gods in eternal prisons beneath the earth as punishment. (i think this is fen'harel)

 

Scholars assume that the Old Gods must indeed have been real at one point, but most agree that they were likely actual dragons--ancient high dragons of a magnitude not known today, and impressive enough to frighten ancient peoples into worshipping them. Some even claim that these dragons slumber as a form of hibernation, not as a result of the Maker's wrath.

 

Regardless of the truth, legend maintains that even from their underground prisons, the Old Gods were able to whisper into the minds of men."

 

 

1.) Dragons were just dragons with something special about them

 

2.) they were stuck underground already and were talking to men through dreams or something. 

 

http://dragonage.wik...y:_The_Old_Gods

 

Is it totally ridiculous to think that Fen'Harel could be the Maker? Like, he was elevated by the humans b/c his intervention helped speed the fall of Arlathan, allowing humans (Tevinter) to gain prominence.  He tried to undo that mistake by aiding Andraste in her takedown of Tevinter...but that backfired too.  So he was like, "Eff this, I'm going to bed" (turned away from the world).  In one of his dialogues w/ Cassandra, she says, "You believe in the Maker?"  And Solas replies, "I'm always open to new ideas."  That's not the same way he talks about the elven gods at all.   

 

WHAT IF GOD WAS ONE OF US.

[zambixi]

Not sure what you're trying to say about the Alistair romance. Was there something wrong with it?

 

The only way to get a happy ending with Alistair is to either:

 

• Make him a Warden, resulting in his potential death in DAI
• Make him King, and be his mistress, because one happened to make the "wrong" decision way back during the CC, without having any idea that it would affect the romance
• Make him King, and rule with him as F!Cousland if one happened to make the "right" decision was back during the CC, without having any idea that it would affect the romance
• Those two decisions are only available if you happened to make the "right" decision during his personal quest, without having any idea that it would affect the romance
• No matter what, you must force him to sleep with and father a child with someone that he objectively does not like
• If you don't, he sacrifices himself for you and you get no say unless you leave him home - even if you made him king and he broke up with you

 

I felt really blindsided by the whole thing, since it was a fairytale romance up until that point. Granted, I was also a teenager and probably wouldn't have reacted as strongly today but such as it was...