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[zambixi]

Just another thought on the Veil.

Maybe it was some kind of a failsafe mechanism, to keep something in the Fade at bay? Like the Blight? In this case building the Veil up was a necessity.

 

I do find it interesting that the Fade is supposed to have nice places and yet we only get to see a non-scarey place once when Solas takes us to Haven. Like why don't Desire demons take us to places that actually look desirable? Why do Fade demons always control areas that are scarey and green? Apparently the Black City is Blighted. Apparently "good" spirits are rare. I wonder if there's a reason for that beyond the general suckiness of people in Thedas.

[TanisLave]

New to the whole Forum thing, but I really enjoyed Solas's romance and wanted to chat up some people.

 

But Out if curiosity, since I obviously haven't read all of this thread. Does anyone believe that Lav would have a better understanding of what Fen'harel Is/was if they drank from the Well? Also what is the Well? Would she then retain the memories/thoughts of the Priests of Mythal? It kinda was never addressed after the whole Flemythal thing. 

[Roxy]

I find comparing Solas/Sera to be really interesting because I think they both have a similar problem, or it at least seems like they do.

 

Sera chooses simplicity, a world where magic is "wrong" and the elves are "wrong", etc. But she does so in such a way as to reject those things completely. She doesn't understand both sides and then come to the decision that one is better, she just pretends one if false and bad and that the ONLY decision is to choose the other. When confronted with another view, she completely rejects it, and tries to impose her viewpoint on the other person instead.

 

Solas chooses the past, and wants to restore what was lost. But he does so without really consulting or understanding the people living in the present. He comes to the decision that the past is better, and pretends that the current situation is Wrong and that is ONLY option is to fix his previous mistakes alone without involving the people that are actually going to be affected. You cannot confront him because he won't even admit that another person could possibly understand the situation.

 

Now, the end of the reasoning line for both Sera and Solas can be valid. If Sera wants to say that it's better if everyone gets along, that "us v. them" is bad, and that the elven culture is not valuable then those are all 100% great opinions for her. If Solas wants to say bringing back the past is better it might very well be (we don't know because he doesn't share his reasoning). But the way they come to those conclusions is deeply flawed, because they do so by rejecting the other opinion completely.

 

So...if Sera is connected to Andruil, I think it would be really interesting for her to have to accept that elven culture is real, and then to still reject it. For her to acknowledge that it's real and still not want to participate in it would make her arguments against Solas' point of view a lot stronger, I think. Like how the Quiz can say that the vallaslin have been re-appropriated so she wants to keep them *shrug*. Then maybe we would get to see Solas' POV shaken up a little more too.

 

EDIT TL;DR: Sera deals with challenges to her beliefs by putting her fingers in her ears and saying "lalalala". Solas deals with challenges to his beliefs by rolling his eyes and saying "you just wouldn't understand". They are both like teenagers not confronting the other side of the argument and I hope they have to do so in the future.

 

 

LOL!

 

Inquisitor: "Solas,Sera! You are both grounded. I am taking your staff and bow and arrows away for a week!"

 

Solas and Sera: "But Inquisitor...." 

 

 

That came to mind when I read that part lol.....sorry.

[LliiraAnna]

I do find it interesting that the Fade is supposed to have nice places and yet we only get to see a non-scarey place once when Solas takes us to Haven. Like why don't Desire demons take us to places that actually look desirable? Why do Fade demons always control areas that are scarey and green? Apparently the Black City is Blighted. Apparently "good" spirits are rare. I wonder if there's a reason for that beyond the general suckiness of people in Thedas.

As I understood, Haven only looked like... well, Haven, because Solas shaped the Fade to resemble it. As for the rest... it's told that spirits/demons try to emulate the "physical" world, but lack any undestanding of how it actually works, and so anything they create in the Fade is... off. It's like a distorted reflection in a mirror. Back in the times of Dreamers, there might have been nice places in the Fade as they were able to re-shape it as they wanted.

[SamanthaJ]

I finally caught up. I went back to sleep this morning because I was sicker than a pig in a prom dress dancing the Charleston with a starving butcher.

 

Lots of interesting stuffs to go over. Like Sashimi's ideas on Solas and Mythal being bff. The designer notes do say that he's her oldest friend. I like to think of them having a relationship somewhat like Leliana's and the Divine's where he's her friend, mother, etc. I also like the idea of Andruil and Ghilan'nain being lovers. And Felassan's story being a fib not that I just like the idea of Andruil not being interested in all because I'm jealous for my Lavellan or anything.

 

On Sera being Andruil/hosting Andruil...I don't know. It seems far fetched. Then again Solas and Flemeth seem far fetched. I think she has innate magic, but I think all elves do. I though Solas was just trying to bring out the magical qualities of elfyness in Sera, or perhaps trying to test them. I don't know that it is or needs to be anything more than that.

[miraclemight]

Cole: You don't need to envy me, Solas. You can find happiness in your own way.

Solas: I apologize for disturbing you, Cole. I am not a spirit, and sometimes it is hard to remember such simple truths.

Cole: They are not gone so long as you remember them.

Solas: I know.

Cole: But you could let go of them.

Solas: I know that as well.

Cole: You didn't do it to be right. You did it so save them.

Lav: Solas, what is Cole talking about?

Solas: A mistake. One of many made by a much younger elf who was certain he knew everything.

Cole: You weren't wrong, though.

Solas: Thank you, Cole.

 

I'm way behind on this forum. 

 

Does this confirm that the 'elven pantheons' are/were actually very powerful people? Unless Fen'Harel was a unique case, in which they rose a citizen to their ranks and gave him privilege. 

[Ajna]

Bet he could have recreated Arlathan for us

[scintilla]

Or when Morrigan's eluvian was just chilling out in the Keep. Apparently Flemythal and Kieran both knew how to unlock it and get into the Fade physically. Which no one bats an eye at, by the way. No one questions how weird it is that Mythal can apparently easily walk bodily in the Fade!?

 

Totally late with this. Anyway. If the Inquisitor attacks Flemythal in the Fade (Morrigan drinks), Morrigan will say something about if she wasn't bound to Flemythal who responds with something like "my power is greater in this place." I thought it was interesting because it ties Flemythal to the Fade in a similar way as Solas'Harel. Although he doesn't do the "physically in the Fade" thing. Then again, Morrigan was more freaked out about her kid than the whole "walking in the Fade" thing. If the Eluvians could be directed there, it makes sense that she wouldn't be hugely surprised.

 

I'll see if I can dig up screencaps.

[vierrae]

I knew that was a real line! Ok. So, a while back there was a really interesting post on reddit:

 

To give some context, my boyfriend does not play the Dragon Age series, but he does attempt listening to my wild rants. One day, after showing him the cutscene where the Inquisitor first meets Corypheus at Haven, he asks me about the metal-looking ball.

What ball?

The one that Corpheus uses to try and remove the Inquisitor’s anchor, of course. The orb that destroyed the Conclave. That set the world down a path of fire and destruction and far too many demons. Yes, the orb. Foci, Solas calls it. “Foci?” my boyfriend asks. Yes, foci.

“So where’s the other one?”

All knowing, I dismiss the theory with the wave of my hand. There’s only one orb, of course, a powerful relic tied to the ancient Elvhen gods. I mean, Solas was devastated when the ‘foci’ was destroyed.

“There’s always two focus points in an ellipse.”

Math stuff. He tries again, in Dragon Age speak. “The Breach. Ellipse-shaped, right? Foci help define an ellipse.” In other words, if Solas’ orb played a role in creating the Breach, there should be another orb. Foci, the plural of focus.

Wait. Wait. What if – and I’m going out on a limb, here – what if there really were two orbs? One dedicated to Mythal, and the other Fen’Harel? It changes the context of DA:I’s backstory, because it would mean that Fen’Harel wasn’t the sole architect.

TLDR: Two focus points, ‘foci’, required to form an ellipse. The Breach is an ellipse, and our known focus point, the Elvhen relic, is destroyed. There’s a second relic, but to whom does it belong?

 

Source: http://www.reddit.co...ng_mathematics/

Oh my, I would've liked it soo hard, but out of likes!!

Also, designer notes on Inquisition note the Orb was coded as "elv_orbmythal", soooo...

I do find it interesting that the Fade is supposed to have nice places and yet we only get to see a non-scarey place once when Solas takes us to Haven. Like why don't Desire demons take us to places that actually look desirable? Why do Fade demons always control areas that are scarey and green? Apparently the Black City is Blighted. Apparently "good" spirits are rare. I wonder if there's a reason for that beyond the general suckiness of people in Thedas.

Solas muses, that the Fade reflects the real world, and it's the reason why benevolent spirits are so rare

Modifié par vierra, 02 janvier 2015 - 08:20 .

[Saile]

Speaking of those orbs-- reminds me of one of the Well of Sorrows codex entries: https://www.dropbox...._Final.png?dl=0

[zambixi]

Totally late with this. Anyway. If the Inquisitor attacks Flemythal in the Fade (Morrigan drinks), Morrigan will say something about if she wasn't bound to Flemythal who responds with something like "my power is greater in this place." I thought it was interesting because it ties Flemythal to the Fade in a similar way as Solas'Harel. Although he doesn't do the "physically in the Fade" thing. Then again, Morrigan was more freaked out about her kid than the whole "walking in the Fade" thing. If the Eluvians could be directed there, it makes sense that she wouldn't be hugely surprised.

 

I'll see if I can dig up screencaps.

 

I get not caring about it in that moment. More pressing matters and all. But it's a pretty big revelation that someone other than the magisters and the anchor-gifted Quizzie can just waltz into the Fade willy-nilly. Flemythal and Kieran didn't even seem to need blood magic or ancient artifacts (aside from the eluvians). And Lavellan doesn't tell anyone about this? It's up there with Lavellan not discussing meeting Mythal with Solas. If I met an elven god in the Fade I'd be pretty shocked and probably talk to the Fade expert about it. Or Mother Giselle, since it would open up numerous alternatives to the ancient-magisters-were-the-only-ones-to-enter-the-Fade dogma.

 

Flemythal might have been more powerful in the Fade because that's where her Spirit "belongs". Like how Justice is more prominent in Anders when you take him to the Fade. Spirit Mythal already knows how to alter that realm, whereas if Morrigan could do so at all she'd be fairly new to it.

 

 

Side-note, on things to be thankful for in 2015. Glad to see that this idea was never implemented because that would be THE WORST:

 

[CardinalSin90]

astrarium puzzles

Spoiler

some of the constellations represent tevinter gods and it's said they are the same as elven gods, few of them are forgotten ones

Samson revealed in a codex that Corypheus stated that the priests in the Temple of Mythal were the "true" priests of the Old Gods.

Cory was unsure about his status as a priest of Dumat. But again it is said Dumat was the one who taught the people the art of blood magic.

I can sense a connection between the elven and old gods..creepy

[LliiraAnna]

Also about Sera. Speaking in tvtropes terms, she is The Foil to Solas. He is obsessed with the past and everything "elfy", while she couldn't care less. He is a mage, while she is freaked out by magic. He is fascinated by the Fade and everything related to it, while Sera finds it all extremely creepy. They are as much opposites as Anders and Fenris were in DA2, and yet their stubborn clinging to their ideas makes them very alike (like A&F yet again) (it's also likely to be at least partly a defence mechanism of sorts in both cases - Sera fears things she cannot understand so she distances herself from them, Solas is still in shock from seeing modern Thedas in all its glory...).

 

It's also why I like having them both in my party, they have some hilarious banters.

[scintilla]

I get not caring about it in that moment. More pressing matters and all. But it's a pretty big revelation that someone other than the magisters and the anchor-gifted Quizzie can just waltz into the Fade willy-nilly. Flemythal and Kieran didn't even seem to need blood magic or ancient artifacts (aside from the eluvians). And Lavellan doesn't tell anyone about this? It's up there with Lavellan not discussing meeting Mythal with Solas. If I met an elven god in the Fade I'd be pretty shocked and probably talk to the Fade expert about it. Or Mother Giselle, since it would open up numerous alternatives to the ancient-magisters-were-the-only-ones-to-enter-the-Fade dogma.

 

Yeah. The Inquisitor not talking about any of the big stuff end game is weird and a pretty obvious attempt to continue keeping things secret on the devs' part. It's kind of funny when you think about it. Meet an elven god? I'm sure no one at all cares about that!

 

Here we go. Since I'm not sure how many people were willing to take a swing at Flemythal, even for science:

Spoiler

[miraclemight]

That takes place in the Crossroads. Ladyinsanity did a stream one day and in that stream, she used the flycam and we saw the entirety of the area, including that location. She had used flycam in the epilogue to know the surrounding features of the area. There were lots of Dread Wolf statues further beyond, and we also saw Merrill's eluvian somewhere in there. It was pretty cool.

 

If they've already put this much detail into a location that cannot even be seen during the cutscene... it could only mean we're going to visit that place in future content...

 

I guess I shouldn't worry about the Wolf Hunt DLC anymore.

[Mims]

If they've already put this much detail into a location that cannot even been seen during the cutscene... it could only mean we're going to visit that place in future content...

 

I guess I shouldn't worry about the Wolf Hunt DLC anymore.

 

Yeah, there's a bizarre amount of detail for it not to come up again. Merrill's mirror in particular. You don't really accidentally put that in the game. Then there's the fact that the orb is listed in the game files as 'mythalorb'. Could indicate plans to have the model show up again. 

 

We also have the huge thing about Briala having unlocked the mirror network for her spies to use which was just barely mentioned in the game. 

[vierrae]

Why do we all persume, that foci had to be orbs? I think it can be other objects, Andruil's spear has something to do with star grains, and we remember the Mask of Fen'harel, which could also tear the Veil apart, no?

[SamanthaJ]

Gaider gotta be saying that to troll right.

[Jaison1986]

Samson revealed in a codex that Corypheus stated that the priests in the Temple of Mythal were the "true" priests of the Old Gods.

Cory was unsure about his status as a priest of Dumat. But again it is said Dumat was the one who taught the people the art of blood magic.

I can sense a connection between the elven and old gods..creepy

 

Weren't the forbidden ones that taught mages how to use blood magic?

[scintilla]

Gaider gotta be saying that to troll right.

 

Or out of frustration at dealing with all the player choices. Every game it must get worse. DA4 will be built on Dev Tears and DA5 on actual human sacrifices to make all the variables work.

 

Top of page Solas!

Spoiler

 

Everyone likes when he looks sad, right?

[zambixi]

Why do we all presume, that foci had to be orbs? I think it can be other objects, Andruil's spear has something to do with star grains, and we remember the Mask of Fen'harel, which could also tear the Veil apart, no?

 

Ah... yeah you're right. It would make sense then if the Focus in the game is Mythal's since one of her symbols is the moon and an orb is a sphere. I'mma be a little mad at Tallis if we find out she destroyed the source of Fen'harel's power by destroying the Mask :-\

 

Gaider gotta be saying that to troll right.

 

I can never tell with Gaider TBH

[HurricaneGinger]

Every time. I will say this every time I write a post, in this thread.

I. Am. Not. Caught. Up.

Having that out of the way, I felt the desire to post in regards to some comments being made. Posts referring to how they/we/one feels towards these pixelated characters, and the attempt to explain to others "not in the know". I wrote a post on a private thread, a while back, and shared a video. This video was actually introduced to me, in one of the Lobby threads.

Sorry for the copy/paste, but was too lazy to rewrite everything.


**Edited for better use in this thread**

 

Hah, I love that they mention DAO...and ZEVRAN. XD 

 

I find comparing Solas/Sera to be really interesting because I think they both have a similar problem, or it at least seems like they do.

 

Sera chooses simplicity, a world where magic is "wrong" and the elves are "wrong", etc. But she does so in such a way as to reject those things completely. She doesn't understand both sides and then come to the decision that one is better, she just pretends one if false and bad and that the ONLY decision is to choose the other. When confronted with another view, she completely rejects it, and tries to impose her viewpoint on the other person instead.

 

Solas chooses the past, and wants to restore what was lost. But he does so without really consulting or understanding the people living in the present. He comes to the decision that the past is better, and pretends that the current situation is Wrong and that is ONLY option is to fix his previous mistakes alone without involving the people that are actually going to be affected. You cannot confront him because he won't even admit that another person could possibly understand the situation.

 

Now, the end of the reasoning line for both Sera and Solas can be valid. If Sera wants to say that it's better if everyone gets along, that "us v. them" is bad, and that the elven culture is not valuable then those are all 100% great opinions for her. If Solas wants to say bringing back the past is better it might very well be (we don't know because he doesn't share his reasoning). But the way they come to those conclusions is deeply flawed, because they do so by rejecting the other opinion completely.

 

So...if Sera is connected to Andruil, I think it would be really interesting for her to have to accept that elven culture is real, and then to still reject it. For her to acknowledge that it's real and still not want to participate in it would make her arguments against Solas' point of view a lot stronger, I think. Like how the Quiz can say that the vallaslin have been re-appropriated so she wants to keep them *shrug*. Then maybe we would get to see Solas' POV shaken up a little more too.

 

EDIT TL;DR: Sera deals with challenges to her beliefs by putting her fingers in her ears and saying "lalalala". Solas deals with challenges to his beliefs by rolling his eyes and saying "you just wouldn't understand". They are both like teenagers not confronting the other side of the argument and I hope they have to do so in the future.

 

As for Sera. Speaking in tvtropes terms, she is The Foil to Solas. He is obsessed with the past and everything "elfy", while she couldn't care less. He is a mage, while she is freaked out by magic. He is fascinated by the Fade and everything related to it, while Sera finds it all extremely creepy. They are as much opposites as Anders and Fenris were in DA2, and yet (like A&F yet again) their stubborn clinging to their ideas makes them very alike (it's also likely to be at least partly a defence mechanism of sorts in both cases - Sera fears things she cannot understand so she distances herself from them, Solas is likely still in shock from seeing modern Thedas in all its glory).

 

It's also why I like having them both in my party, they have some hilarious banters

 

They have a very father/daughter or grandfather/granddaughter relationship. 

 

"IN MY DAY"

"STFU #YOLO #SWAG"

 

He teases her about bringing out her magic, she actually sounds worried if he falls in battle, and he entertains her humor at times.

 

"Ever ****** magic?"

"No. Wait.......no."

 

He also tries to teach her about rebellion, and at one point she's like "okay, fine, tell me" but then she points out an error in his plan: "if i just put myself and others at the head, it would just cycle over."

 

So, I really appreciate their relationship. It's interesting. 

[Mims]

Ah... yeah you're right. It would make sense then if the Focus in the game is Mythal's since one of her symbols is the moon and an orb is a sphere. I'mma be a little mad at Tallis if we find out she destroyed the source of Fen'harel's power by destroying the Mask :-\

 

 

I can never tell with Gaider TBH

 

Or it could be, as people mentioned, that the use of the mask was what awoke Fen'Harel in the first place. It did require blood magic to fulfill the ritual.

 

Did the miniseries actually say what they were attempting to do with it? What was their endgame?

[SamanthaJ]

Or out of frustration at dealing with all the player choices. Every game it must get worse. DA4 will be built on Dev Tears and DA5 on actual human sacrifices to make all the variables work.

Hopefully they won't feel as stressed when we go north. I'm sure a few decisions down south will matter and a few people will matter, but they can probably get away with a few dialogue references for the most part. It would be tough trying to implement the Orlais ruler choice and Divine choice in a meaningful way.

[k_drake]

Or out of frustration at dealing with all the player choices. Every game it must get worse. DA4 will be built on Dev Tears and DA5 on actual human sacrifices to make all the variables work.

 

Top of page Solas!

Spoiler

 

Everyone likes when he looks sad, right?

So what you're saying is that we've driven them to blood magic.