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[Vhenan In Fen'Harel]

Arlathan and Tevinter existed at the same time.  But it's been implied that the Elven Gods were all locked away long before Arlathan fell.  I think it's pretty clear at this point that whoever betrayed Mythal was among the elves, and I suspect one of the other Creators.  (Elgar'nan, I'm looking at you.)  Tevinter might have dealt the final blow to Arlathan, but whatever brought the elves down low to begin with was conflict between the elves themselves, as Abelas says. 

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Thalsian

Note the potential structure of Elvhenan society - the dreamers being at the top - may have created unrest 
http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Elvhenan

Arlathan, Part 1 & 2
http://dragonage.wik...athan:_Part_One
http://dragonage.wik...athan:_Part_Two

http://dragonage.wik...vinter_Imperium
Note, 220 TE is when Arlathan sank,

But when the Dalish tell the tale, they seem to imply the lack of God response as concurrent with why Arlathan wasn't saved from Tevinter...like before that they didn't know the God's were gone? They use that as a lead in to the story of Fen'harel.
 

[Adynata]

 

http://darthempress....getting-punched

 

His walk says both dread wolf and sex god. 

 

 

On a side note, anyone else  enjoy the irony that Varric calls Solas "Chuckles" and one of the dread wolf stories describes him as "giggly madly" after locking the gods and dark ones away?

[dragondreamer]

Yeah, I definitely agree with this. I'm just not sure how it fits if Mythal is also Dumat. /ponderr

 

Yeah, you've hit on the head the same problem I've been pondering.  I'm not sure.  If she was killed and then a wisp floating around until she possessed Flemeth, she couldn't be a living Old God dragon in the ground, could she?  It throws a wrench into the idea that Mythal=Dumat.  Which is otherwise fairly neat.  But there might be missing info that would explain it.  Still, this is another reason why I'm more on the Old Gods=Forgotten Ones side of things.  The Creators, I believe, are trapped behind eluvians somewhere.  The Dalish may have a lot wrong, but I think they may have had something with the idea that the Creators were sealed in "heaven" and the Forgotten Ones sealed in the abyss.

[LliiraAnna]

Yeah, you've hit on the head the same problem I've been pondering.  I'm not sure.  If she was killed and then a wisp floating around until she possessed Flemeth, she couldn't be a living Old God dragon in the ground, could she?  It throws a wrench into the idea that Mythal=Dumat.  Which is otherwise fairly neat.  But there might be missing info that would explain it.  Still, this is another reason why I'm more on the Old Gods=Forgotten Ones side of things.  The Creators, I believe, are trapped behind eluvians somewhere.  The Dalish may have a lot wrong, but I think they may have had something with the idea that the Creators were sealed in "heaven" and the Forgotten Ones sealed in the abyss.

To look at it from the other side... if Mythal = Dumat, that'd mean that she was the one who gave the magisters the idea to go for the Golden/Black City, which subsequently caused the First Blight. When we meet FleMythal in DAO, she's not happy about the Blight, so... Even that aside, why would she want some humans breaking into the City?  ​ 

[scintilla]

To look at it from the other side... if Mythal = Dumat, that'd mean that she was the one who gave the magisters the idea to go for the Golden/Black City, and subsequently caused the First Blight. When we meet FleMythal in DAO, she's not happy about the Blight, so... Even that aside, why would she want some humans breaking into the City?  ​ 

 

Could be accidental. Or she pulled a Fen'Harel and tried to throw what she saw as a disposable resource at the problem of needing to get into the Black City.

[Mims]

Yeah, you've hit on the head the same problem I've been pondering.  I'm not sure.  If she was killed and then a wisp floating around until she possessed Flemeth, she couldn't be a living Old God dragon in the ground, could she?  It throws a wrench into the idea that Mythal=Dumat.  Which is otherwise fairly neat.  But there might be missing info that would explain it.  Still, this is another reason why I'm more on the Old Gods=Forgotten Ones side of things.  The Creators, I believe, are trapped behind eluvians somewhere.  The Dalish may have a lot wrong, but I think they may have had something with the idea that the Creators were sealed in "heaven" and the Forgotten Ones sealed in the abyss.

 

Yeah, I've definitely been trying to work it out in my head. The game does seem to be implying a connection. But I think there's a lot to suggest that Mythal 'died' before the entirety of the elven empire fell. We also know that she wasn't one of the ones Fen'Harel sealed away, so that throws another wrench in the idea. 

 

Unless, I suppose, Mythal was the one who originally devised the idea to seal the gods away. If the elven pantheon became corrupted by red lyrium or some other madness, she might have had the sense to devise a plan to fix things. She tasks Fen'Harel with fulfilling it. The other gods are captured [but one slips the noose]. But it doesn't stop them from falling into madness, and Mythal is only truly 'freed' when Dumat is killed. 

 

But that still doesn't quite fit in with an immediate sort of betrayal. And those talktables, if we believe the elvish is talking about Mythal, seem to suggest a much more intimate betrayal. Which makes sense, since that intimate betrayal is what lead her to Flemeth.

 

It all means something. I just don't know what!  

[Shari'El]

Well, I was thinking about this the other day (which old god could be each eleven god), and I have a doubt, because I don't know much about lore, so maybe someone here can help me with it 

 

assuming old gods=elven gods, and having already five of them killed in blights, it means there's only two elven gods left, right? I mean, they should be dead, no? or are they supposed to have survived in any way?

 

And if  only those two still live, mistery and night, don't they seem likely to be, as you say Falon'Din=night and I'd say too Dirthamen=mistery?

 

Couldn't it be a that a huge battle between Solas and those two it's what it's coming? I mean it could be Falond'Din the one who Felassan was helping, maybe it's trying to find a way out of his prison, and mabe he finds it in future DLCs or games...

 

I'm no good at speculation theories, it's only that I like this scenario because in it Solas is going to be clearly the good guy, so t's probably whishfull thinking   (I'm really worried they turn the Solas into a villain who dies watching all of his plans failing )

 

Hehehe.

I don't think Solas is a bad guy, that's for sure. I don't know if he is a good guy, but it doesn't bother me.

He is clearly a good person, even if may get/gotten things wrong.

 

I don't think that the elf god = old god is that simple, I think they may be.. Aspects of them? I'm not sure how to phrase it. We are missing a link.

But yes, it would suggest the old gods that live are connected to the twins, Falon'Din & Dirthamen...

By the way, Falon'Din is symbolized by owls throughout DAI and you can see as many owls as you can see wolves in this game...

Omnononominous?

[Mims]

Forgot to tag on the end of my statement-

 

But, it could also be that the Forgotten Ones were so jealous of the Elven Gods that they just supplanted their identities wholesale. They make their own empire, attempt to erase any sign of who the elven gods were, but eventually fall into corruption as well? 

[Shari'El]

Yeah, I've definitely been trying to work it out in my head. The game does seem to be implying a connection. But I think there's a lot to suggest that Mythal 'died' before the entirety of the elven empire fell. We also know that she wasn't one of the ones Fen'Harel sealed away, so that throws another wrench in the idea. 

 

Well, Abelas does say she was murdered.

I truly think we have some missing piece of information, or that the connection between the old gods and the Elvhen pantheon is too unfathomable for us to consider...

[jawsisinmywc]

Who wanted to see young Solas.. with dreads ?

Spoiler

 

found it here http://oddmoy.tumblr.com/

Aaaannndd my panties just fell off!

[Vhenan In Fen'Harel]

OMG That conversation:

 

"Dorian: Ah, Solas. You startled me. You're always so... nondescript.

Solas: Please speak up! I cannot hear you over your outfit!

 

| Team Optimism |"

 

 

IS so hilarious.

Also where he's threatening Sera with teaching her magic. Also a good one.

 

Also, on theory: I'm honestly expecting one of the Dragonage games to open/close with old gods just walking out of thousands of eluvians around thedas that have just powered back up. While the hero throws their hands up in the air and our Quiz/Solas ride off in the sunset on a dragon, leaving that mess for the new hero to clean up.

At the end the veil can crumble and then the hero AFTER that hero can try to figure out wtf to do with Thedas at all.

[Addai]

Whelp, I screwed that up. ¬_[/size]¬ ([/size]For my part, I was going off this, which is probably where a lot of folks take it from.)

Welcome! If you read on, I pointed out that Merrill says "ma vhenan!" when Hawke falls in battle, so the usage is actually correct. "Ma" can mean my/mine or you.

[Rabbitonfire]

When I learned that owls represented creatures of  Falon'Din, I've been paranoid as though a dead god is watch me. Too many owls I would say, replace them with harts. Harts are harmless.

[LliiraAnna]

But someone put the Old Gods to sleep, just as the elven gods were sealed away... there has to be some sort of connection here @_@

[nranola]

1900 pages!!

http://darthempress....getting-punched

 

His walk says both dread wolf and sex god. 

 

 

On a side note, anyone else  enjoy the irony that Varric calls Solas "Chuckles" and one of the dread wolf stories describes him as "giggly madly" after locking the gods and dark ones away?

 

What can I say? Varric has a knack for people. 

 

And now here I am thinking, when Solas reunites with Lavellan and starts explaining himself...

 

"Ir abelas, vhenan. I have not been truthful with you. I am, in fact, the elven god... of sex."

 

bow chicka wow

 

please don't hit me

[dragondreamer]

To look at it from the other side... if Mythal = Dumat, that'd mean that she was the one who gave the magisters the idea to go for the Golden/Black City, which subsequently caused the First Blight. When we meet FleMythal in DAO, she's not happy about the Blight, so... Even that aside, why would she want some humans breaking into the City?  ​ 

 

Yeah, I just have a feeling it probably isn't a Old Gods=Creators thing.  When it comes to why the Old Gods would want the Black City opened, I think it might have been both a desperate attempt to free themselves (by releasing their blight slaves), or a revenge thing.  I suspect the blight may have been a creation of the Forgotten Ones, perhaps even a bioweapon.  And the original darkspawn their slaves, and that's why the Old Gods are connected to the blight and can control the darkspawn.  Some of the new elven codexes hint at the Forgotten Ones being connected to the abyss, the blight, and even darkspawn.

[Nika]

So I wanted to listen to the conversation with Flemeth when there's no OGB 'cause I've never heard it

Well look who's right there again

I think that other statue on the right is that mythal dragon statue... weird that there's two of them

[Avejajed]

Re: Draconis.

Maybe this unknown 8th god is Felassan's mysterious boss. Maybe this God is the big bad. Maybe he's not even on Solas radar because maybe he thinks he's dead already but he wasn't dead but has been biding his time all these years or was somehow thought dead but was in unethera.

Just spending my lunch break throwing out crazy theories. This is my normal now.

[Mims]

Re: Draconis.

Maybe this unknown 8th god is Felassan's mysterious boss. Maybe this God is the big bad. Maybe he's not even on Solas radar because maybe he thinks he's dead already but he wasn't dead but has been biding his time all these years or was somehow thought dead but was in unethera.

Just spending my lunch break throwing out crazy theories. This is my normal now.

 

That is an interesting thought. I'll have to read up on the eighth god. I didn't realize there was one...

 

[javeart]

Hehehe.

I don't think Solas is a bad guy, that's for sure. I don't know if he is a good guy, but it doesn't bother me.

He is clearly a good person, even if may get/gotten things wrong.

 

I don't think that the elf god = old god is that simple, I think they may be.. Aspects of them? I'm not sure how to phrase it. We are missing a link.

But yes, it would suggest the old gods that live are connected to the twins, Falon'Din & Dirthamen...

By the way, Falon'Din is symbolized by owls throughout DAI and you can see as many owls as you can see wolves in this game...

Omnononominous?

 

Honestly, I never considered the idea of Solas being the next bad guy until I heard Weekes' interview, and now that possibility worries me even more than not having closure for his story with Lavellan 

 

 have to say I'm very confused about the nature of elven gods. What makes them gods, to begin with. It cannot be inmortality and it cannot be simply power (Mythal gives her power to Solas and her dinivity to Morrigan). So what is it? Do we know it?

 

I'm inclined to thinkt they're abominations, especially powerful abomination or something like that, because I think the story about the young mage that spend most of his time in the fade that Solas tell us it's true and DA writers clearly like abominations, enough to put at least one in each game  But truth it's that it doesn't solve any problem or mystery or has anything to do with their possible relation to the old gods 

[LliiraAnna]

That is an interesting thought. I'll have to read up on the eighth god. I didn't realize there was one...

 

There's not much to read about him, I'm afraid. From the codexes:

 

Draconis: Called "High Dragon" in common parlance, the constellation Draconis is always depicted by a dragon in flight. Recently, it has come into question whether this was the case in the ancient Imperium. Most Tevinter dragon imagery was reserved for the Old Gods, so why would they dedicate a constellation to dragons in general when specific dragons were held in such reverence? This speculation is fueled by older drawings showing Draconis as more serpentine in appearance, perhaps depicting a sea creature or an unknown eighth Old God that was stricken from historical record.

[Rabbitonfire]

Based

 

So I wanted to listen to the conversation with Flemeth when there's no OGB 'cause I've never heard it

Well look who's right there again

I think that other statue on the right is that mythal dragon statue... weird that there's two of them

Based on legend, Fen'Harel is buddy-buddy with everyone. It's like he's a ward for protection. There was one time he mentioned there weren't many spirits in the area and we were near a wolf statue.  I wonder if the dalish misinterpret his gleeful laughter and hugging self with loud sobbing and fetal position. 

[dragondreamer]

I wonder if the mysterious eighth god was the one who "belonged to Dirthamen" who illegally took "divine form" in that one codex.  Someone who rose above his station without permission and started something that culminated in what Fen'Harel finished.  (Or maybe one of the original Forbidden Ones).  Ugh, I feel like there's so much here, but we have so little details.  It might even be Fen'Harel, who knows.  Fen'Harel was someone who was considered to belong to both pantheons.  But Fen'Harel has his own constellation, so it might not fit the eighth dragon.

[zambixi]

It feels like it's been so long since I've been on the forums. Chat took over >.>... v.v

 

It's surrounded by elven skeletons. Execution for guilty verdict + Mythal representing justice?

 

That first one...is that supposed to be slaves? The sun could be related to Elgar'nan since his symbol is the sun. Those elves are weird too, like someone carved holes out of their heads *shivers*

 

When I learned that owls represented creatures of  Falon'Din, I've been paranoid as though a dead god is watch me. Too many owls I would say, replace them with harts. Harts are harmless.

 

Don't harts belong to Andruil? Also have you ever seen a deer defend itself? Those things can be mean!

[Mims]

It is very possible that the elven gods, being not 'true' gods, were slowly losing control over the people. At a certain point the ancient elves magic was catching up with their gods. Perhaps even surpassing them in some areas. You have Ghilan'nain, and then possibly that one who belonged to Dirthamen. Hmm...