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[dragondreamer]

It's so creepy that there seems to be a proto templar in ancient elven art (unless that's from the Dales era).  So many connections...

[Avejajed]

Also re: dragon archdemons.

Maybe the archdemons are the forgotten ones? Or maybe the dragons aren't the gods themselves but their..idk..pets or something. Like each one had a corresponding dragon but then the dragons were getting out of control so then solas locked them away underground where they became tainted...

Ignore me, babbling theory is babbling.

My concern is if there really are all these Elvish gods and Solas wants to let them out, you're going to suddenly have what, 7 all powerful God characters roaming around Thedas and I can't see how this works within the constraints of a video game storyline. How can anyone expect to beat 7 all powerful immortal gods at once? Even with Solas on our side.

But I am firmly convinced there is a connection of some kind between old gods and Elvish gods, especially considering how Solas has a minor freak out at the thought of the Wardens waking the old Gods.

Maybe each elvish god has a dark mirror and those are the forgotten ones. Those forgotten ones= the archdemons.

[madrar]

OMG I MISSED YOUR NUTJOB THEORIES!

 

Long flights + way too much time on my hands + no internet = NUTJOB TIME!

 

This is well chewed over by now, but while I'm catching up, this old bit totally ruined my week:

 

 

On the one hand, it's nice to have the Andraste connection confirmed.  On the other... ffffffffffFFFFFF orb.  

 

Just when I was 99.9% convinced he had to have passed the orb to Corypheus in the ancient Tevinter era (even though that made his post-game conversation with Mythal super odd and awkward) because that was the only sane explanation.  Now all I've got is that maybe he was trying to kill two birds with one stone:  unlocked orb, dead/lyrium-statued darkspawn Magister.  Win-win.  

 

...ugh.  Solas.  Seriously?

 

The "unlocking" of the orb is something problematic in and of itself, though. When we think of foci as a means of channeling power, the initial assumption is that the power in question is that of the wielder.  We're accustomed to thinking of foci as magical megaphones: amplifying the will of mage carrying it.  

 

Solas' weakened dependence on Corypheus, in tandem with pointed references to foci "channeling the power of the Gods", suggests otherwise.  And that has some dire consequences in terms of Solas' personal power and agency.  What Corypheus was meant to do was release a power inherent to the orb itself- independent of its wielder, making the power available for use but not granting it in any permanent way.  

 

So... conduit, not megaphone.  

 

Given that, the obvious question is: whose power is it?  And (possibly but not necessarily the same answer) who granted the orb to Solas, and how aligned are their objectives with his?  As we've seen from the Well, a geas need not be visible: one can be bound to will of the Gods without vallaslin.

 

The most obvious possibility is Mythal.  Some pieces fit nicely: the taming of the Dread Wolf (in form as well as his metaphorical transformation to a protective and loyal hound of the Pantheon) makes some sense with Mythal as "mother" holding the leash.  His iconography is found with hers quite a bit, and the orb over his head in the ToM mosaics could underscore this as a symbol of the limits of his power and his acceptance into the faction.  

 

That's just slightly too pat to be satisfying, however, and it's possible there's another hand in play here.  The fingerprints are faint (if not entirely imaginary) but still suggestive.  If the "duty" that counterweighs Solas's attraction to Lavellan is external and not entirely his own, then the answer is likely the original mistress of Skyhold.  That is unlikely to be Mythal, given the location of her temple and the general idea of early god-rulers with defined kingdoms, though it's not impossible. In this context, the fresco codex may either be a clue, or a red herring.  

 

On the mural, all messere would say is, "Skyhold is her fortress (meaning of course the Inquisitor). These are her actions." He is, of course, correct; the subject of each addition is self-evident.

 

That parenthetical seems suspiciously unnecessary- a lampshade to catch the player's attention.  "This is an in-game assumption" it says. "What if it isn't correct?"

 

What if, indeed.  Unfortunately I haven't had time to confirm whether this updates to "his" fortress / "his" actions during a male playthrough, which would yank the rug right out from under the whole thing- but until then, it remains pointedly suspect.  Again, given Flemythal's reputation for carefully guiding events behind the scenes, it's tempting to pin ownership to her: they are events that the Inquisitor may have played out, but that she has put in motion.  

 

Mythal's final conversation with Solas seems to undermine that interpretation though, as it suggests that she had no input in (and certainly no control over) Solas' decision to give the orb to Corypheus, which led directly to the events at ToSA and formation of the Inquisition and are represented in his frescoes as "her" works.  Thus if Solas is technically in the service of another God (again, still a huge assumption) it would have to be someone else.  The list of alternative possibilities is short, and none are particularly satsifying.  Going to have to think this over for a bit.

[scintilla]

It's so creepy that there seems to be a proto templar in ancient elven art (unless that's from the Dales era).  So many connections...

 

Yeah, there's definitely the question of what time period it's supposed to be from. I'm fairly certain it pops up in one of the temples but at least one of those was Dales era.

[LliiraAnna]

Also re: dragon archdemons.

Maybe the archdemons are the forgotten ones? Or maybe the dragons aren't the gods themselves but their..idk..pets or something. Like each one had a corresponding dragon but then the dragons were getting out of control so then solas locked them away underground where they became tainted...

Ignore me, babbling theory is babbling.

My concern is if there really are all these Elvish gods and Solas wants to let them out, you're going to suddenly have what, 7 all powerful God characters roaming around Thedas and I can't see how this works within the constraints of a video game storyline. How can anyone expect to beat 7 all powerful immortal gods at once? Even with Solas on our side.

But I am firmly convinced there is a connection of some kind between old gods and Elvish gods, especially considering how Solas has a minor freak out at the thought of the Wardens waking the old Gods.

Maybe each elvish god has a dark mirror and those are the forgotten ones. Those forgotten ones= the archdemons.

There was a theory that killing all Old Gods would just cause all Darkspawn to go berserk (since they are the only ones capable of controlling them). To quote this theory, "Blight is a corruption of a fundamental system and Wardens are just breaking it".

[Ajna]

Phone battery...almost dead..things to say..Mythal...the sea....serpent...Draconis..aaarrrghhh

[Lady Luminous]

 

I don't think Solas is a bad guy, that's for sure. I don't know if he is a good guy, but it doesn't bother me.

He is clearly a good person, even if may get/gotten things wrong.

 

 

This reminds me of something he said to my inquisitor who he wasn't on good terms with. 

 

I'm paraphrasing, but it was something about how "In the end, after everyone has left, your mistakes will be all you're left with. Honour your mistakes, they'll be all you have in the end." 

[Rabbitonfire]

Honestly, I never considered the idea of Solas being the next bad guy until I heard Weekes' interview, and now that possibility worries me even more than not having closure for his story with Lavellan 

 

 have to say I'm very confused about the nature of elven gods. What makes them gods, to begin with. It cannot be inmortality and it cannot be simply power (Mythal gives her power to Solas and her dinivity to Morrigan). So what is it? Do we know it?

 

I'm inclined to thinkt they're abominations, especially powerful abomination or something like that, because I think the story about the young mage that spend most of his time in the fade that Solas tell us it's true and DA writers clearly like abominations, enough to put at least one in each game  But truth it's that it doesn't solve any problem or mystery or has anything to do with their possible relation to the old gods 

For me, I like the idea of Solas being a villain. I also like the idea that the inquisitor may have conflicting interests upon meeting him again as though whatever goal he has in mind will cost lives but the result of bringing things back will justify the means. And I like the idea of the inquisitor aiding the next protagonist to kill or at least prevent Solas from doing it. 

 

Personally I think the elven gods were just powerful spirits that manifested themselves into physical world. Kind of like cole but created their own forms. Coles hasn't aged, right? Maybe that's an answer to immorality? This is foggy but remember talking to Kieran where he said I was different and asked why I chose to look like that?

[Shari'El]

OMG That conversation:

 

"Dorian: Ah, Solas. You startled me. You're always so... nondescript.

Solas: Please speak up! I cannot hear you over your outfit!

 

| Team Optimism |"

 

 

IS so hilarious.

 

Also where he's threatening Sera with teaching her magic. Also a good one.

 

Also, on theory: I'm honestly expecting one of the Dragonage games to open/close with old gods just walking out of thousands of eluvians around thedas that have just powered back up. While the hero throws their hands up in the air and our Quiz/Solas ride off in the sunset on a dragon, leaving that mess for the new hero to clean up.

 

At the end the veil can crumble and then the hero AFTER that hero can try to figure out wtf to do with Thedas at all.

 

Solas has some really good banters XD

His banters with Sera are amusing.

 

I love the fact he has such dry humor.

[Avejajed]

You know Shartan=Solas makes more sense if we consider the theory that Flemeth=Andraste.

Andraste and Flemeth are both betrayed. A dragon guards Andraste's ashes. There is Mythal referneces in the Temple of Sacred Ashes. Etc. I'm on my phone so I can't cross reference codex entries.

[Mims]

As for Solas's plan...its hard to say. I don't think his plan is simply to make sure the other elven gods don't break out. That seems like too noble a goal, and a goal that he couldn't just give up. We know from Weekes that he considered letting go of the past. If his plan was to stop an elven god, that would be an immediate sort of threat that I don't think he could just surrender. 

 

But on the same token, I'm not sure if his plan is just to release them either. If Mythal was betrayed, I doubt she would lend Solas her powers to make amends with the person [or persons] she hates so badly. Unless she is so caught up in her own revenge that she's setting Fen'Harel on a course that he would release them, and then have to kill all of them. 

 

I think its likely that all the elven gods have suffered something of a power drain over the years.

 

Solas references 'the people' quite a bit. Its possible that wherever the elven gods are trapped, there might be a lot of ancient elves also condemned to a fate worse than death. [If the black city is Arlathan, possibly there?] This seems like a goal that Solas could technically forget about...but might not be able to forgive himself if he did. Maybe he thinks he can crack open the door, somehow let his people out, and not disturb the gods he trapped.

 

Which would backfire horribly. It could even be that the entire thing is a trap to lure Fen'Harel into opening the prison door for the elven gods. 

[Rabbitonfire]

This reminds me of something he said to my inquisitor who he wasn't on good terms with. 

 

I'm paraphrasing, but it was something about how "In the end, after everyone has left, your mistakes will be all you're left with. Honour your mistakes, they'll be all you have in the end." 

Man, I love it when he spills things about himself. The best reveals are when you frustrate him.

[javeart]

Also re: dragon archdemons.

Maybe the archdemons are the forgotten ones? Or maybe the dragons aren't the gods themselves but their..idk..pets or something. Like each one had a corresponding dragon but then the dragons were getting out of control so then solas locked them away underground where they became tainted...

Ignore me, babbling theory is babbling.

My concern is if there really are all these Elvish gods and Solas wants to let them out, you're going to suddenly have what, 7 all powerful God characters roaming around Thedas and I can't see how this works within the constraints of a video game storyline. How can anyone expect to beat 7 all powerful immortal gods at once? Even with Solas on our side.

But I am firmly convinced there is a connection of some kind between old gods and Elvish gods, especially considering how Solas has a minor freak out at the thought of the Wardens waking the old Gods.

Maybe each elvish god has a dark mirror and those are the forgotten ones. Those forgotten ones= the archdemons.

 

The thing is Cassandra ask Solas precisely that, if the archdemons might only be pets to the real gods, and Solas denies it, in a way that doesn't seem like he's lying, though, of course, he could be lying.

[dragondreamer]

It is very possible that the elven gods, being not 'true' gods, were slowly losing control over the people. At a certain point the ancient elves magic was catching up with their gods. Perhaps even surpassing them in some areas. You have Ghilan'nain, and then possibly that one who belonged to Dirthamen. Hmm...

 

Maybe, since social unrest and slavery seem to be at the heart of what Fen'Harel did.  Maybe the Forgotten Ones were a rebel group, and the Creators warred with them.  And although Fen'Harel was one of the Creators, he sympathized with the Forgotten Ones.  Until it went too far (maybe Mythal was killed because she was trying to end things in a civil way the other Creators wouldn't agree to), and Fen'Harel thought the only way to save everyone from the terrible weapons they were going to use (WMD are hinted at, and at least in the Dalish story Fen'Harel promises both sides a weapon when he tricks them) was to seal all the gods away.  He just didn't see how badly elven civilization would fall as a result.

[zambixi]

So I wanted to listen to the conversation with Flemeth when there's no OGB 'cause I've never heard it

Well look who's right there again

I think that other statue on the right is that mythal dragon statue... weird that there's two of them

 

I wish we better understood the Mythal-Fen'Harel relationship. It does not seem like they are lovers, from the devnotes (I think it said "dearest friends" or something like that) but it is really strange that they are always together. Is that just Bioware trolling us, or is that part of the lore? I mean Elgar'nan is supposedly her counterpart and... nope

 

Do we see statues for any other gods in the game? I only remember Mythal, Solas, and maybe Falon'Din (if the owls are his)

[Rabbitonfire]

Solas references 'the people' quite a bit. Its possible that wherever the elven gods are trapped, there might be a lot of ancient elves also condemned to a fate worse than death. [If the black city is Arlathan, possibly there?] This seems like a goal that Solas could technically forget about...but might not be able to forgive himself if he did. Maybe he thinks he can crack open the door, somehow let his people out, and not disturb the gods he trapped.

 

Which would backfire horribly. It could even be that the entire thing is a trap to lure Fen'Harel into opening the prison door for the elven gods. 

 

Oh man, I can't wait to see the snobbery between ancient elves and modern elves. 

[Shari'El]

What can I say? Varric has a knack for people. 

 

And now here I am thinking, when Solas reunites with Lavellan and starts explaining himself...

 

"Ir abelas, vhenan. I have not been truthful with you. I am, in fact, the elven god... of sex."

 

bow chicka wow

 

please don't hit me

 

I'm such a horrible horrible person

NSFW?

 

Spoiler

 

I blush at smut, this is so unlike me. Solas has ruined me!

[scintilla]

I wish we better understood the Mythal-Fen'Harel relationship. It does not seem like they are lovers, from the devnotes (I think it said "dearest friends" or something like that) but it is really strange that they are always together. Is that just Bioware trolling us, or is that part of the lore? I mean Elgar'nan is supposedly her counterpart and... nope

 

Do we see statues for any other gods in the game? I only remember Mythal, Solas, and maybe Falon'Din (if the owls are his)

 

"Oldest friend" is the term used. There are wolf statues in the Dirthamen temple too. Not to suggest that the relationship is anywhere near the same but Fen'Harel does seem to be represented whenever we see the other gods.

 

I don't think so. Unless there's something there that we haven't made a connection for. There are wolves and owls everywhere though.

 

Top of page Solas:

Spoiler

 

Here he is being tiny next to lady qunquisitor.

[Rabbitonfire]

Do you guys ever have the struggle of choosing between function vs fashion when crafting clothes? It's like, I want to look good but I don't really need cold resistance. 

[zambixi]

Long flights + way too much time on my hands + no internet = NUTJOB TIME.

 

This is well chewed over by now, but while I'm catching up, this old bit totally ruined my week:

 

 

On the one hand, it's nice to have the Andraste connection confirmed.  On the other... ffffffffffFFFFFF orb. 

 

/snip/.

 

99.9% certain this is Harvard (Havard, w/e. Andraste's disciple) carrying her ashes, NOT Shartan

[Mims]

I usually go for fashion. Maybe make sure at least one stat is correct. Otherwise my mages look awful. 

[Avejajed]

The thing is Cassandra ask Solas precisely that, if the archdemons might only be pets to the real gods, and Solas denies it, in a way that doesn't seem like he's lying, though, of course, he could be lying.

Hmm. I must have missed it.

I guess Solas could be lying, but with him I think it's all about what he doesn't say. Thats where the truth lies, in his omissions.

So, scratch them being pets.

Okay, we have the Elvish Pantheon, the Forbidden ones, said to be dark mirrors of the Elvish gods that we know basically nothing about, we have the old gods fromTevinter that seem similar to the Elvish Gods and share simlar iconography.

Then we have Andraste and the Maker and who even knows about that.

[Birdy]

Do you guys ever have the struggle of choosing between function vs fashion when crafting clothes? It's like, I want to look good but I don't really need cold resistance. 

Fashion all the way,  I think at one point I was using armor from 10 + levels ago because I hated the upgrade

[dragondreamer]

Do you guys ever have the struggle of choosing between function vs fashion when crafting clothes? It's like, I want to look good but I don't really need cold resistance. 

 

The eternal struggle.

 

I have a few different sets because of this.  Sometimes you want to be ridiculously OP, and sometimes you just wanna look fabulous.

[Lady Luminous]

Man, I love it when he spills things about himself. The best reveals are when you frustrate him.

 

Looking forward to frustrating him with my female dwarf.  

 

He was very cool towards my male noble, but I never got him truly angry.