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[Cecilia L]

So... I just got the vallaslin scene with my elfquisitor.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I almost cried as much as when Grunt's almost death made me a total wreck, except in a good way. I cannot believe how beautiful that scene was. Bioware...!!!

 

 

Just bittersweet perfection.

 

 

And to think I was sad Solas didn't get as much content as other romances (played Blackwall's, Bull's and Cassandra's so far). But that scene...!!! Wow. DA:I is meant to be played as a female elf Solasmancer. Just had to come here and share my fan-freakout. Did I put enough exclamation marks in this post?

[AWTEW]

Morning Solas thread.Any CAH going on?

[BubbleDncr]

I don't know if it's been mentioned (I can't keep up!) but there's a codex entry from the temple of Mythal, it's one of the untranslatable texts that you can read after drinking from the well, that reminds me of that image that keeps popping up with the elves with red lyrium blight (or whatev's)

 

Here: 

 

(spoilered for size)

 

Spoiler

 

 

And here's the codex entry:

 

 

 

But I have no idea what any of this means. It might just be an eclipse or the sun. *shrug* 

 

For some reason that makes me think of darkspawn - "their workers scurry, witless, soulless." 

 

In which case...could the old gods be "the pillars of the earth?" And that would be why Solas gets so mad about the grey Wardens wanting to hunt them down and kill them before they become archdemons?

[Mims]

I don't know if it's been mentioned (I can't keep up!) but there's a codex entry from the temple of Mythal, it's one of the untranslatable texts that you can read after drinking from the well, that reminds me of that image that keeps popping up with the elves with red lyrium blight (or whatev's)

 

Here: 

 

(spoilered for size)

 

Spoiler

 

 

And here's the codex entry:

 

 

 

But I have no idea what any of this means. It might just be an eclipse or the sun. *shrug* 

 

Hmm. The first part of the text almost sounds like darkspawn. 

 

There's also a double orb referenced in DA2 when talking about Fen'Harel. 

[BubbleDncr]

Oh! 

 

And if they're preparing to fight darkspawn...

 

The Wardens consume darkspawn blood to be tainted, to fight the darkspawn. 

 

Red lyrium is tainted lyrium.

 

Could the ancient elves have created red lyrium in order to fight darkspawn?

[Addai]

I'm going to take a wild guess that the "unhealthy relationship" comment is for the Bull/Dorian situation. Which, from what I gather, is not entirely healthy for either party? They never did hook up in my game, so I'm not sure how that went.

They've been getting a lot of flak from that. Gaider tweeted about it before.

As for the vallaslin, already posted somewhere, mine has hers removed without a second thought. It's an integrity thing. But I see her as a historian-reformer. The truth about their past used to break them out of the ruts they've gotten into and into something better. If she'd have any regrets, it's that some, maybe many, will misunderstand her decision as a desire to be less elven, especially since she's called Herald of Andraste.

But I have no idea what any of this means. It might just be an eclipse or the sun. *shrug*

"Two shadowed spheres among stars, an eclipse as Fen'Harel stirred."

I like the idea that history repeats itself, in evolving circles so that sometimes you come back around and events from the past re-play themselves in slightly altered form. Maybe the mythic figures in the game have seen this happen before and recognize the patterns. Flemythal seems very sure that change is coming upon the world.

[NeverlandHunter]

I think Zevran was emotionally healthy. Maybe not physically. Must have gotten at least a few diseases from that one...

Ouch. Poor Zevran...I want to defend him but...tis probably true.

And speaking of Zevran.

Oghren: Well, here we are, elf. The homeland of your people.
Zevran: I am from Antiva, Oghren. I don't go into forests as a rule.
Oghren: Huh, I thought you elves were all from the woods. With the flowers and the wind and what-not.
Zevran: The Dalish perhaps. Most of us were born with a roof over our head.
Oghren: Then why the sod do we keep hearing about elves frolicking in the thicket and nug-spew like that?
Zevran: Could it be that Orzammar's archives aren't the most accurate authority on elves?
Oghren: Heh. Orzammar's archives are hardly an authority on Orzammar's archives.
Zevran: I'm just cheered by the thought that you might have picked up a book at some point.
Oghren: Heh. It had pictures. Dirty ones.
Zevran: (Sighs) Well, naturally.

When Solas got on Varric about his lack of "dwarfiness" I was yelling at the screen "Better you met Varric then Oghren Solas, so leave him alone!"
Since Solas likes to stereotype I think meeting Oghren would have ended any curiosity he had about the underground dwarves.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Eh, Solas/Lavellan, Inquisitor/Blackwall also both seem a bit unhealthy...Haven't done the full Iron Bull one yet, but I've seen some people claim its unhealthy. 

 

I am blessed with a happy, stable, drama-free relationship IRL, so I get my dramatic feelz fix from video game romances.  I practically gravitate toward the unhealthy trainwreck relationships.  Except for Garrus, because Garrus is the best digital boyfriend ever.

[AryBoBary]

Ugh.  I just got to the post-Haven dream scene with Solas, as a female Trevelyan, and I'm in full panic mode.  I'm about to throw this character out the window to re-roll another Levellan. *curls into a ball and rocks back and forth* 

[Andir]

Q-Q

 

I never took this option before...my heart is shattered. SHATTERED

 

 

from throvia

 

Also, you guys are super addicting. I should really be doing some work right now, but lolnope.

 

 

[Mims]

Poor Solas. On the fast track to becoming a woobie, destroyer of worlds. 

[Patchwork]

 

"In this place we prepare to hunt the Pillars of the Earth. Their workers scurry, witless, souless. This death will be a mercy. We will make the earth blossom with their passing."

For a moment there is a vision of two overlapping spheres; unknown flowers blossom in their centers. Then it fades.

 

It does sound like darkspawn and reclaiming tainted ground.

Pillars of the earth could mean dwarves especially if dwarven society and elvhen society are mostly separate, two spheres coming together to kill darkspawn and use their different magics to get rid of the taint. 

[AryBoBary]

Spoiler

Q-Q

 

I never took this option before...my heart is shattered. SHATTERED

 

 

from throvia

 

Also, you guys are super addicting. I should really be doing some work right now, but lolnope.

 

My heart... :'(

[KarateKats]

Oh geez that gif set.... I just want to give him a big hug. ;-;

[Avejajed]

In the hinterlands right by the crossroads (where that guy asks for the blankets) theres a little rock wall (looks like a fence now) with a bunch of those slabs that have the same etchings as the Fen'Harel statue at mythal.

Probably doesn't mean anything but looked like a graveyard to me.

Also I love that my phone autocorrects to Fen'Harel.

[Eivuwan]

I'm just grateful for all the great fanart and fanfic that will help me with these feelings until the freaking DLC comes out. COME OUT ALREADY!

[soragrey]

Yeah, he screams out "Ma'Vhenan!" when you fall in battle.

 

I never heard that! He never said anything when I died. =/ Wonder if that's part of the banter bug too? 

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[KarateKats]

I never heard that! He never said anything when I died. =/ Wonder if that's part of the banter bug too? 

It could be. I've done like 4 playthroughs romanacing him but I've only heard it twice. Blackwall and Sera seem to call out the most for me.

[arlofthan]

 

I'm on board.  Mythal is generally associated with water: in myth, she rises from the ocean of the Earth's tears, she stores her servants' memories in a well, Flemyth chooses to live in a swamp, her "area" in the Exalted Plains (formed when subjects from the original elvish nations came together) is also a swamp, etc, etc.  

 

Given that, there's no question in my mind that Andraste's original message has been seriously warped in the Chant as we know it, and those changes 1) have the fingerprints of an opposing philosophy all over them, and 2) are strongly associated with fire / the Sun.  

 

Whether there's a direct line to Elgar'nan... I'm not sure yet.  It's certainly tempting, but I go around in circles with theories about Elgar'nan, the Blight, and his relationship to the Sun.  My hunch at this point, is that the Sun may literally be another entity, as distinct from the elvish Pantheon as the Stone is, and is likely the source of blight.  If the apparently cyclical husband-wife-lover motif has an origin in their relationship, then Mythal, Fen'Harel, and Elgar'nan would once have been allied before Elgar'nan betrayed them at a critical juncture, possibly resulting in the murder of Mythal. (Not that I'm entirely ruling out the Sun from being Elgar'nan, as the dalish "Sun" could just as easily be a metaphorical aspect of his nature given form to externalize internal conflict or a real and distinct entity. All of this is very vague and raw- nothing more than a gut feeling that hasn't been thought through yet.)

 

Anyway, the important bit is how bizarrely schizophrenic the text of the Chant is.  Passages exalting free will and compassion are crammed in with those of submission and absolute obedience to the Will of the Maker.  A good part of it is just useless human flotsam tacked on at the end, but at the core it's as if there are two voices, one of which gets fainter and fainter over time.

 

Compare the shift in tone from Transfigurations 1... to Transfigurations 12... The older passages (it's a pretty solid assumption the numbers are temporally linear, text added over time) reflect what you might expect if Solas and Mythal were to sit down and puzzle out a guide to creating a functional society that side-stepped the pitfalls they knew all too well.  Ignore whether the Maker actually exists- He loves you, He doesn't want you to worship ruler-gods, He doesn't want you to use magic to hurt or dominate others, and for pity's sake just be nice to each other.  

 

The later ones?  Obey.  Obey.  Obey.   Obey the fire at the heart of the world.  It's a particularly interesting description of the Maker, both in light of the Dalish tale of Elgar'nan throwing the Sun down into the Abyss, as well as the current location of what may be the source of the Blight, trapped in an eluvian in Arlathan, currently at the center of the world.  As always, irritatingly, it could be a reference to either.  Or both.  *shakes fist at Gaider*

 

Anyway.  The solid takeaway here is this:  there is strong evidence that an entity that is not Solas / Mythal is both able to affect the mortal realm through the minds of men, is awake/aware enough to do so, and by all indications, its objectives and the future it desires for the mortal world lie in absolute opposition to theirs. This isn't new.   Twisting mortal faith to its own ends seems to be a favorite trick, as this is almost certainly the same entity who spoke to the priests of ancient Minrathous as "Dumat", driving them toward the City to be infected.  Extrapolating from the text, what it desires is obedience, the absolute submission of sentient beings to its will.

 

This fits, of course, uncomfortably well with blight and the hive mind of Blighted creatures. (Corypheus' control over the blight is little more than an illusion, allowed because he furthers a purpose.  I have no doubt he's as bound to its source as tightly as drinking from the Well of Sorrows binds one to Mythal.)  We're no closer to knowing exactly what blight is - a biological weapon, designed to bring the world back under control?   A divergent counter-melody to the original Song of creation?   All of the above, somehow?  None of it?   Regardless, I think these clues in the Chant get us slightly closer to who its true master might be, and what He aims to accomplish with it.  

 

Hmm... I feel like it's a big jump to go from "these religious texts differ in tone" to "they were influenced/written by seperate gods." Take the New Testament. It's essentially a compilation of historic moral texts from roughly the same area and time period. Tonally, it runs the gamut from "Love thy neighbor" (the Gospel) to "BURN OBEY BURN" (Revelation). But you don't get people saying different gods were responsible for that inconsistency; rather, different authors choose to highlight different elements of a theology. Thedas is about 1000 years post-Andraste. That's enough time for the Chantry to become as confused and bloated as the medieval church in its teachings. Now obviously, magic isn't real in our world, but just because magic/the elven gods are a possibility doesn't mean they're the answer. 

 

That said, I like the idea of past being precedent and the elven gods having to do with the Chantry. I can totally see Andraste as a former host of Mythal, but I don't think there's any evidence to support Elgar'nan even being alive post-Arlathan, never mind involved in human religion. Fire is a recurring motif, not just in the game series but in general. Not necessarily linked to Elgar'nan.

[soragrey]

...

I like the idea that history repeats itself, in evolving circles so that sometimes you come back around and events from the past re-play themselves in slightly altered form. Maybe the mythic figures in the game have seen this happen before and recognize the patterns. Flemythal seems very sure that change is coming upon the world.

Spoiler

[vierrae]

I officially give up the hope to keep pace with this thread. I read 10 pages, and there's 10 more added. It's futile.

Is it just me, or is Fenris' lyrium skin stuff strongly resembles June's vallaslin?

And all yay for unhealthy relationships from Gaider!

[Mims]

Yeah, I definitely thought it looked a bit like June's. Someone speculated that the idea for putting lyrium in the tattoos might have even been elven in origin. 

[madrar]

Uh, one more random thought before I get back to grinding through a weeks' worth of fic, theory, and tears:

 

One of the things that kept me from adopting the theory that the blight was directed by an entity whose goal was assimilation/domination of sentient life on Thedas was that blights ever end.  If the song/hive mind was directed by a non-Archdemon Something (something awake and aware enough to have called Tevinter priests and warped the Andrastean religion) why would attacks on the surface be limited to times when a blighted Old God/Archdemon was active?  

 

I can think of two possibilities, and they're not necessarily mutually exclusive.

 

1) For the Big Bad to be released, the Dwarves have to go first.  My theories on 'why' are still half-baked.  In a way, I think the Dwarvish race might function a bit like an immune system for the Stone.  Carving away the bad parts, beating back the physical infection, with Kal'Shirok dwarves possibly working like T-cells, removing the blight from the Earth's blood directly.  I'm not sure how much I like the image, but it kind of fits.   In that mindset, my brain does weird twitchy stuff when I read things like this: 

 

"In this place we prepare to hunt the pillars of the Earth. Their workers scurry, witless, soulless. This death will be a mercy. We will make the earth blossom with their passing."

 

The "witless, soulless" part is obviously meant to trigger our "gotta be darkspawn" detector, but I think that might be a misdirect.  Consider instead:

 

Pillars of the Earth = Titans (possible keys to Big Bad's imprisonment)  Workers = Dwarves.  Blossom = blight. 

 

I think it's safe to assume the original Dwarves- whatever they were before they lost/forgot their original purpose- were much different from what they are now.  Further assume this progression is a trajectory- that they're growing further and further away from being Servants of the Stone until you have someone like Varric, a surfacer who can't hear the Stone at all and is, in a meta sense at least, practically a Dwarven mage. (In so far as being a writer is a bit like dreaming while awake.  Crafting and shaping worlds that aren't, but could be, etc, etc. The fade-y connections are all over the place in his dialog with Cole.)  

 

Anyway!  Moving backward in time and downward in space from something like Varric, you lose more of the Dwarf-as-individual, and gain more Dwarf-as-Stone-song-driven weapon/tool.  Combine this with Dagna's crazy experience after the resolution of "The Archanist and the Fade", and you have the Dwarvish race as a networked hive mind, connected by blue lyrium.  Built, perhaps, to counter the blighted red one and maintain the integrity of the Big Bad's prison.

 

Ugh.  Totally weak theory.  I don't like it yet, but there you have it.  

 

2)  Surfacers think of blights as Darkspawn attacks... but what if they aren't?  Given what we think we know about the Big Bad, when there's no competing Song from an Archdemon, wouldn't it make more sense for the Darkspawn horde to be digging down?  It's possible the Old Gods, maddened as they are with blight and pain, have just enough them left when they wake for the thought "UP", dragging what they can control to the surface, away from the Big Bad's objectives.  So... not an attack.  Just a temporary setback, a roadbump slowing down the Big Bad's plan to free himself to rule over an enslaved and blighted world.  

 

If so, nice job again there, Wardens.   =w=

[vierrae]

Regarding pillars of earth: I do see a connection here.