153433 réponses à ce sujet

[AryBoBary]

Yeah.

 

I don't have an alternative, but you've definitely put your finger on the bit that just doesn't sit right.

 

Team Despair:  the whole thing sounds horribly, terribly final in a way that's really hard to reconcile with our existing theories about his Big Plan.   Not the "you won't forgive me" of the possible veil-drop or god-release.  Not even final in "I expect doing this will take my life, and thus will never see you again."   It's more like he expects whatever he's about to do will -literally- eternally isolate him: as you theorized, possibly cutting him off from this world entirely.  

 

Team Optimism: Screw in-game, going meta.  In order to complete a full character arc- whether villain or redemption, Solas has to show up again.  

 

Right?  He has to.  

 

...Right?

 

I'm hoping for a mix of both.  Don't get me wrong, I'm 110% Team Optimism, but in regards to how I think the story would play out next, I can't see it being one way OR the other.

 

I think Solas is facing impossible odds, that will require a gigantic personal sacrifice, and he absolutely does not want to have Levellan become emotionally entangled or put into immediate danger because of it, but I think he's seeing things too linear.  I believe that whatever task he's facing, will involve Levellan, or she will involve herself.  (I love the idea of Sandal being a key to an Eluvian that would take her to Solas, btw.)

 

I also believe that all will be made clear to Levellan in regards to who he is, and his role in the history and shaping of Thedas, whether he confesses or not, because circumstances will force the truth.  I feel a bittersweet closure is ahead of us, unfortunately.  One that will have great impact on the current world state, as well as Edit: Levellan's heart our hearts.

[Avejajed]

Speaking of Solas and Pride. And out west, for that matter.

I never went into the Solassan temple thing- is that the one with the Shards in the Forbidden Oasis? I never got all my shards so I never bothered to go, but it strikes me as its sort of got to be important in some way, right?

I mean a temple practically named after my fictional boyfriend? There has to be something we have missed there. I never hear anyone ever talking about it.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I'm not being judgy about anyone else's choices it's just meta gaming getting in my way

 

Oh, meta-gaming has definitely gotten in my way on the second playthrough.  I know my Adaar should be best bros with Blackwall until the reveal, and I know the reveal is going to make him feel so angry he lets the Orlesians do their thing.  It's making it very, very hard to take Blackwall anywhere.

[mindoirs]

This, definitely. I don't know if Corypheus was Solas's pawn for very long- but, that was certainly his intention at the beginning when he allowed his orb to be passed to him. 

 

The unfortunate thing about Solas is that anyone who knows his goals and is reasonably powerful can probably manipulate him fairly well. Solas has made this entire thing very personal, recklessly personal even. Whatever Solas thinks his plans are, I'm sure Flemeth/Mythal intends for him to do something else along the way. And if there's another god in the wing, it could be a very carefully orchestrated revenge trap. 

 

Solas's main fault is pride, and despite taking that as a name, I don't think he's quite realized that he's still making the same mistakes over and over again. 

Definitely agree (as always, tbh). I think he's convinced himself that by walking on the path alone and making all of these sacrifices, that things will turn out well in the end. His pride might just be his biggest flaw, for he doesn't see other options or angles because of it. He thinks that he and he alone must solve all of this, and perhaps even thinks that any mistakes he commits in the future will be okay if the ends will justify them. He keeps making the same mistakes and trusts that things will work out in his favor, like he did when giving the orb to Corypheus. Not trying to be a negative nancy, I'm probably just worried and overly attached, but I'm not sensing very good things for him. ;_; Flemeth /knew/ he was coming, and knows of the reckoning she is waiting for. She gives history nudges and shoves when needed. She has a much bigger plan than just giving Morrigan her godhood.

 

I just hope everything does turn out okay for him.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I never went into the Solassan temple thing- is that the one with the Shards in the Forbidden Oasis? I never got all my shards so I never bothered to go, but it strikes me as its sort of got to be important in some way, right?

I mean a temple practically named after my fictional boyfriend? There has to be something we have missed there. I never hear anyone ever talking about it.

 

Maybe it was once a temple to Fen'Harel.  Maybe it's where Solas was sleeping and he woke up there?  Maybe he actually put himself there voluntarily after whatever horrible thing in his past.  He does have one of those temple shards sitting on his desk; maybe that's the master key to the temple, and he was able to let himself out after exiting uthenera.

 

In which case, I want that stupid shard.  It'll save me dozens of hours 

[BlueElf2]

Solas is willing to kill to achieve his goals, though. That is his character, and Weekes even said that he is doing some possibly terrible things at what he thinks is for a good end. It's a part of his character that can't go ignored. Doesn't mean he is a "bad guy". He can be sweet as well, especially to the person he loved. The big point of Solas is a character that is full of moral contradictions and greys.

 

For a while now, I've felt that Corypheus was Solas's pawn, and in the bigger scheme of things, Solas is also Flemeth's. It makes me sad because he's probably not aware of it, and I hope everything turns okay for him.

 

Seeing some awesome theories in the thread that I'm REALLY liking. Still totally on the boat for the pantheon/old gods theory.

Has anyone who is particularly keen for finding out hidden stuff looked into West? Any locations that we currently know of that might give a clue or hint as to why Solas is going in that direction? And apparently lots of other people?

I totally think that Solas probably thought that Corypheus would be an easy way to get his orb reactivated; he was probably expecting Cory to get killed by the orb's power when he activated it so that he could then just walk in an reclaim it. However, we saw how poorly that plan went. I don't really understand why he would have given his orb to Cory without having any knowledge of what Cory was planning to do with it or without any understanding of Cory's nature. Solas seems oddly bad at planning for the long-term or developing counter plans if his original plans go awry...which seems to be a recurring problem for him. Perhaps, he should take the hint.

 

Flemeth, on the other hand, seems to have her plans together. It's been shown that she has plans within plans and seems to plan for at least several possibilities. She's also had a lot longer to work out her goals and how to ultimately reach them than Solas has. I bet you're right and that she has factored him into her own plans. That's the only way I can see her just letting him take her power without a fight, and I have no doubt that she could have easily killed him if she wished as she's likely considerably more powerful in than him in that instance. It could also be a case of her knowing that whatever he was planning to do would coincide or aid her in achieving her goals as well.

 

Whatever happens, I hope that Solas gets a chance to find happiness when all is said and done. It may not happen that way, but it's what I hope for. If the next game sets him up to be killed by my character, I seriously don't even think I could play it because I wouldn't be able to do it; it would seriously break me because I'm so attached to his character. I'd have to skip that game just for my own sanity; I don't handle sad things very well. I'm still torn up over the Solas conclusion in this game because I'm so worried about what's going to happen to him. I have never been so invested in a character before.

[chibielf]

I have a theory. However, due to my ipad status, I can't post pics. So please. Bear with, Sharatan chantry image. Has obvious parallels to Solas' tarot. However, the two elves in the corners of Sharatans image. One looks like Solas, the other is bound.
This goes with my Temple of Solasian (temple of pride) theory. It was built to hold more than a simple pride demon. Read the codex. Half translated by Solas.
I theorize, Solas was Sharatan and after Andrastate was killed Sharatan did not disappear but was imprisoned in the temple of pride for 1000 years.

Again, would go into more detail but limited to iPad. Look up wiki.

[Brass_Buckles]

I do suspect that "realness" to Solas is a matter of being... uh, for lack of a better word, literally "dimensional" within the game.

 

If banter with Cole is to be taken literally, Solas' connection to the fade represents a significant distinction between him and most mortals of Thedas. He exists fully in both places- he inhabits a dimension they do not.   

 

It's... like 2D vs 3D.   Not to get too meta, but in a way Solas' initial attraction to Lavellan is a lot like ours to him.  He's fantastic, he's incredible, but at the end of the day, he's not really real, like we are.  She is his Waifu, and he's willing to lose himself in the fantasy because hey, why not?  It doesn't hurt anyone.  His instincts are still compassionate, (just like we might choose to save a Druffalo, even knowing it's just a few paragraphs of code), but his obligations to these "shadows" and the depth of his connection to them is necessarily limited.

 

It doesn't map entirely of course, but let's say someone had a hostage at gunpoint and threatened violence unless we logged in and let Solas die repeatedly to a Hinterlands bear.  Would anyone hesitate?  We might feel a teeny twinge of guilt while we did it, but there's no real question that we would.  Because real.  

 

Of course, in-game, at least, this dimensionality is (potentially) restorable, which complicates things.  It's more like... having to make the choice to sacrifice him with the knowledge that if you didn't he might, eventually become real.  Much harder decision. He's not, but he could be.  

 

And of course, in Lavellan's case, she already is.  As Cole points out, she's even brighter than Solas is, present in both dimensions in game, as well as outside it (3D us whoo) and eventually Solas realizes this as well.  His myopic focus on the orb, goals, and duty prevents him from seeing this in a non-Lavellan Inquisitor, but she forces him to look.  

 

I brought up the 2D/3D analogy myself many pages ago, and also share the theory that the Fade/other world connection is what makes people "real" to Solas.  Lavellan (or the Inquisitor in general) has that, but no one else seems to.

 

I can't get this out of my mind today:

Here lies the abyss, the well of all souls.
From these emerald waters doth life begin anew.
Come to me, child, and I shall embrace you.
In my arms lies Eternity.

-Andraste 14:11^[3]

 

From the Chant of Light. To me this screams Well of Souls/Well of Sorrows parallels. The Wiki says, "Abelas reveals that every servant of Mythal near the end of their life would pass their knowledge on through the Well of Sorrows, thus it contains all the collective knowledge and way of life of the ancient elves."

 

Abyss, well of souls -- Death and well of knowledge

Emerald waters -- well of sorrows did have some green magics going on

I shall embrace you -- you are part of me now? you are bound and have to do my bidding?

 

I actually speculate that the Well of Souls is not the Well of Sorrows, but actually the Fade.  The Fade is very green...

 

So does Solas have any romance-related battle cries????  Like, how in DA2 the love interests had romance-specific battle dialogue when Hawke got hurt.  I know Blackwall has some comments that are romance-related...  I hope Solas does :3

 

"Fenedhis!  Ma halani!  Ma halani!"  I've also heard "NOOOOOOOO!"  I don't think I've heard "Vhenan!" that other people mention...

 

Oh! 

 

And if they're preparing to fight darkspawn...

 

The Wardens consume darkspawn blood to be tainted, to fight the darkspawn. 

 

Red lyrium is tainted lyrium.

 

Could the ancient elves have created red lyrium in order to fight darkspawn?

 

I doubt this could be possible, since red lyrium is lyrium that has contracted the Blight.  In fact if you look at the Red Templars up close, their faces look kind of like DA:O darkspawn.  They're effectively just a different kind of ghoul/darkspawn.

[mindoirs]

I totally think that Solas probably thought that Corypheus would be an easy way to get his orb reactivated; he was probably expecting Cory to get killed by the orb's power when he activated it so that he could then just walk in an reclaim it. However, we saw how poorly that plan went. I don't really understand why he would have given his orb to Cory without having any knowledge of what Cory was planning to do with it or without any understanding of Cory's nature. Solas seems oddly bad at planning for the long-term or developing counter plans if his original plans go awry...which seems to be a recurring problem for him. Perhaps, he should take the hint.

 

Flemeth, on the other hand, seems to have her plans together. It's been shown that she has plans within plans and seems to plan for at least several possibilities. She's also had a lot longer to work out her goals and how to ultimately reach them than Solas has. I bet you're right and that she has factored him into her own plans. That's the only way I can see her just letting him take her power without a fight, and I have no doubt that she could have easily killed him if she wished as she's likely considerably more powerful in than him in that instance. It could also be a case of her knowing that whatever he was planning to do would coincide or aid her in achieving her goals as well.

 

Whatever happens, I hope that Solas gets a chance to find happiness when all is said and done. It may not happen that way, but it's what I hope for. If the next game sets him up to be killed by my character, I seriously don't even think I could play it because I wouldn't be able to do it; it would seriously break me because I'm so attached to his character. I'd have to skip that game just for my own sanity; I don't handle sad things very well. I'm still torn up over the Solas conclusion in this game because I'm so worried about what's going to happen to him. I have never been so invested in a character before.

 

I agree with all of this. I see something bittersweet; not only because it seems the most realistic with the character we're dealing with, but also because that's the route BioWare usually seems to go. Too much heartache as of it is, though. ;_; What I want above all is some closure.

[BlueElf2]

My Lavellan would gladly join him

So would mine; she just doesn't want him to be alone even though he seems bound and determined that he has to be.

[Patchwork]

Oh, meta-gaming has definitely gotten in my way on the second playthrough.  I know my Adaar should be best bros with Blackwall until the reveal, and I know the reveal is going to make him feel so angry he lets the Orlesians do their thing.  It's making it very, very hard to take Blackwall anywhere.

 

The Divine choice is the one I really hate, it's in character for my Lavellan to conscript the mages rather than let them get away with what they did at Redcliffe or not give Briala all the power in Orlais but I really want Leliana to be Divine. 

[electricfish]

Speaking of Solas and Pride. And out west, for that matter.

I never went into the Solassan temple thing- is that the one with the Shards in the Forbidden Oasis? I never got all my shards so I never bothered to go, but it strikes me as its sort of got to be important in some way, right?

I mean a temple practically named after my fictional boyfriend? There has to be something we have missed there. I never hear anyone ever talking about it.

 

It's a temple where a guy got locked away and became a Pride demon. He did some terrible stuff to deserve it, but I can't remember the codexes about it. >.o

It doesn't have anything to do with Solas, other than sharing part of his name. Solassan is "the place where pride dwells."

 

It's interesting, and you get some nice personal benefits for doing it.

[Mims]

I have a feeling that Mythal is too weak to take on the final leg of whatever it is she has been cooking for the past couple of thousand years. Either a conflict against another elven god, or something else entirely. While still insanely powerful as Flemeth...it'll never quite be the same as being truly 'alive' and whole. 

 

In that sense, I think she sees Fen'Harel as something of a weapon. She certainly has no desire to sacrifice Morrigan, who is dear to her. [And, would probably run into the same 'weaknesses' that Flemeth would, even if Morrigan is some sort of super baby.] Mythal ensures her knowledge survives with Morrigan, while Fen'Harel gets the power with the full knowledge that whatever he's doing is bringing him closer to her ends. 

 

Now, it could also be that their plan is one in the same too. And I don't think Mythal is evil either. I think whoever/whatever she is orchestrating is probably a worthy cause. It just might get very messy. I also doubt she's cared to leave much of an exit strategy for Fen'Harel. 

[electricfish]

Dude. I want Giselle as Divine. :| I can keep Cassandra, Leliana can go back to her Warden lover, and there's still a mostly reasonable and compassionate person on the Sunburst Throne.

[vierrae]

Another art from above comic's author

Spoiler

http://brynhallavell...ge/107162183367

[chibielf]

It's a temple where a guy got locked away and became a Pride demon. He did some terrible stuff to deserve it, but I can't remember the codexes about it. >.o
It doesn't have anything to do with Solas, other than sharing part of his name. Solassan is "the place where pride dwells."
 
It's interesting, and you get some nice personal benefits for doing it.

Crazy theory.
Guy was Sharatan. Sharatan was Solas. Temple is where he slept for 1000.
Look at Sharatans chantry glass. Right corner. Bound man.
Crazy theory! Wooooooooo

[madrar]

I brought up the 2D/3D analogy myself many pages ago, and also share the theory that the Fade/other world connection is what makes people "real" to Solas.  Lavellan (or the Inquisitor in general) has that, but no one else seems to.

 

 

erk.  Sorry!  Didn't mean to re-chew old theory.  I'm still clawing may way through 300+ pages of backlog, so I haven't hit it yet.   

 

*mental wavelength high-five in the meantime*

 

I actually speculate that the Well of Souls is not the Well of Sorrows, but actually the Fade.  The Fade is very green...

 

Wow, how did I not catch that.  Yeah.  100% on board.

[chibielf]

No way all that crazy temple shards puzzle everyone's was for a stupid pride demon who spawned from a random dick who had an ego.

My money is on Solas resting place.

Till proven insane by dlc.

[ZerebusPrime]

I really don't think that Solas' goal was to remove the veil.  If that had been his goal, he could have simply allowed the Breach to grow until the veil was utterly eroded

Spoiler

as seen in the Redcliffe side-with-the-mages mission - Solas is fun to take along for this mission

.

 

That said, I also doubt that Solas intends to release the Elvhen gods.  He absolutely hates slavery and I have the impression that most of the Elvhen pantheon kept large slave stocks

Spoiler

including Mythal, given Abelas' own markings and the markings on the ancient elves working with him

.  By in large, I have the impression that the Elvhen deities that were sealed away were sealed away for good reason.

 

To my limited understanding, that can only leave releasing a large population of ancient elves - innocents caught up in whatever event set the dread wolf upon this path - as Solas' intended goal.

[Patchwork]

Dude. I want Giselle as Divine. :| I can keep Cassandra, Leliana can go back to her Warden lover, and there's still a mostly reasonable and compassionate person on the Sunburst Throne.

 

I spoiled myself rotten on the romances but was mostly ignorant about the rest of the game and I was convinced Giselle was going to be the Divine and our talks would influence her. That still makes more sense to me than a spymaster, a Seeker or a mage getting the sunburst throne. 

[chibielf]

If I'm right. I get everyone's Internet cookies. Let be said.

[Mims]

 

To my limited understanding, that can only leave releasing a large population of ancient elves - innocents caught up in whatever event set the dread wolf upon this path - as Solas' intended goal.

 

Definitely possible! I think if this is his goal, then the danger is that there's a high likelihood of everything going wrong:

 

a. He sneaks into wherever he's trapped all these people, and awakens one of the trapped elven gods

b. The people trapped in limbo have long gone crazy from being held in a fate worse than death

c. The people are long consumed by the elven gods but their 'presence' is being mimicked like bait. 

 

Actually, I'd say regardless of what Solas is planning to do, there's a huge likelihood of everything going wrong.  

[electricfish]

I spoiled myself rotten on the romances but was mostly ignorant about the rest of the game and I was convinced Giselle was going to be the Divine and our talks would influence her. That still makes more sense to me than a spymaster, a Seeker or a mage getting the sunburst throne. 

 

I know, right? Here we have a Revered Mother who is compassionate, gives sound advice, and stays with the Inquisition the entire game. She ought to be an easier pill to swallow than our other choices.

[Sable Rhapsody]

The Divine choice is the one I really hate, it's in character for my Lavellan to conscript the mages rather than let them get away with what they did at Redcliffe or not give Briala all the power in Orlais but I really want Leliana to be Divine. 

 

Briala drove me nuts, and there is no way my Lavellan would ally with the mages either; I actually did Therinfall Redoubt my first playthrough.  So the Divine decision pretty much has to be Cass in my game.  I honestly like that they did the Divine thing as an aggregate of a bunch of decisions rather than one, but it can be a bit frustrating.

[TanithAeyrs]

I've been thinking about the concern that the ruthless side of Solas has generated on this thread.  Most of our PC's have had to be pretty ruthless at some point (our Wardens in DAO in particular).  Thedas is a brutal world and there isn't always a way to avoid sacrificing an individual or a group if you want to achieve the greatest good.  Solas may be ruthless in pursuit of his goals, which he seems to think will achieve the greatest good, but can any of our PC's fault him for that.  The Inquisition has certainly not been an innocent bystander.

 

Now, the goals of a 6000 year old god (give or take if he dates to the founding of Arlathan - according to World of Thedas the elves probably made contact with the dwarves around 4600 ancient and humans first arrived around 3100 ancient) may or may not be in any sort of alignment with what a given Inquisitor believes- or is even capable of believing.