153429 réponses à ce sujet

[Eivuwan]

I wonder when they started planning the end plot of the DA series. DAO, DA2, or DAI

[AryBoBary]

I'm sorry if I upset you. Solas' romance hit me very hard, and I certainly don't want unhealthy romances to become a mainstream for the lady gamer. So, I understand perfectly why people are upset; I didn't much care for the retweet myself, but I took it as a joke. 

 

I only take personal issue with how the devs are being treated; we don't know them, or what they intend, but I do know they don't wish ill will on anyone because of their circumstances - they want to improve what they have done wrong, as Mr. Weekes has said. 

 

No no!  You in no way upset or offended me!  I feel like my opinion on the matter wouldn't do any good, really.  But maybe I should elaborate.

 

As a survivor, I have my own set of triggers that are a direct reflection of the abuse I suffered, and while others may share in some of the same triggers as I, not everyone does.  I think it's a very personal matter, and no two persons situations are alike.  For instance, I was never triggered in this game by any of the characters, but I know many were...

 

It was DA2 that triggered me, particularly when the Champion/Hawke has to go find Kelder during Magistrate's Orders, and you discover that he's basically been capturing and torturing young elf girls.  THAT triggered me, and I took much pleasure in letting Fenris kill that SOB.  Then, after the mission, I paused the game, and took some time to work through the anxiety I got from the mission.  Was that the writer's fault?  No, it's my abuser's fault.  Do I blame the writers for having the insensitivity to explore that form of depravity?  No, because it's an emotional game, with emotional stories, and emotional characters, and that very thing taps into our human feels.

 

I am no way discrediting those people who felt triggered by the Iron Bull/Dorian romance, or any other romance for that matter, because, that's their own personal view, colored by their own personal experiences, and saying they are wrong, would be invalidating them, and I would not wish that for myself.  Having people rally behind me when I needed it, saying they believed me, and supporting me was instrumental in climbing out of the devastation my abuser caused me.

 

Anyhoo, have some Solas, just in case the mood in here got sour...

 

 

Edited, like a thousand times, because apparently my fingers hate me and have a mind of their own.

[Zarro-Morningstar]

Going to bed. Snowstorm tomorrow! Should be fun! I'll try to catch up on 2937883373 pages in the am.

Are you in Ohio too!? I am getting a huge snowstorm too, lol!

[Sable Rhapsody]

I think maybe they initially planned on having the player reunite with Solas during the balcony scene. Maybe they didn't want the player to feel too sad and have a lack of closure. But I guess they decide to go with the more realistic and emotional path because they want their games to be remembered. I still need my closure though.

 

I'm all down for emotional and realistic, but it honestly just leads to me coming up with increasingly fluffy and implausible headcanons and AUs.  Like a Star Wars one where Lavellan is a rebel pilot who happens to be Force-sensitive, and Solas is a fugitive Jedi.  Please don't judge me...

 

I figure if I'm likely to be sad eventually at the canon conclusion of the story, I may as well be deliriously happy and fluffy now, even if it's pretty delusional 

[LobselVith8]

Yeah, it seemed uncharacteristically sneaky and conniving of her. She knows you two are friends (or at least getting friendlier) when she approaches you about his father's letter, and all but says she wants you to use that friendship to trick him into walking into a trap so he'll likely be kidnapped back to Tevinter. And then she acts surprised and disapproving if you tell him. And I'm thinking, "B!tch, Dorian is my friend. He has a right to know. (And I'm an elf. I've got more reason to dislike and distrust Tevinter than you ever could.)"

 

Actually, come to think of it, for those who say Giselle is too nice and not political enough to go for Divine... this behavior kind of shows she does have something of a political side. >_<

 

Plenty of conversations my Lavellan had with Giselle had her pushing her ideas, though, although most of those were about following the Maker, which my Dalish had to remind her (repeatedly) wasn't his religion. Dorian seemed to be a different matter, admittedly, but her conversations concerning him seem to steam from a distrust of Tevinter and how it would politically impact the Inquisitor if he remained; another moment where she had to be reminded that the Inquisition doesn't serve under the auspices of the Chantry.

[hellozombie]

did you see what I found on EVERY TALK TABLE on the game ?

 

 

I think he was supposed to come back on the end (balcony scene) but they didn't have time to animate it

 

^^^^^AUTOMATIC REQUOTE EVERY TIME

 

TEAM OPTIMISM UNTIL I'M A ROTTING CORPSE DOOMED TO BE REANIMATED BY DORIAN

[Caddius]

I really think that Bioware should have the IQ be the main lead in the next game or Hawke. The IQ is not just going to go poof...I swear if she does I am going to be deeply annoyed. She is nearly the most influential person in all of Southern Thedas...so her story is not done. Nor is Hawke's...but it seems they are writing them off just as the Warden.

I think the idea is that the Inquisitor has served as Andraste 2.0. The Inquisition has either restored the status quo, or created a new one. And in a November interview, Mike Laidlaw said that this will be the last main game to focus on the South for awhile.

So the Inquisitor makes all kinds of crazy, world-shattering decisions in the South and things stabilize. and we start getting ourselves embroiled in the North's troubles. Not that the Inquisitor goes poof, just that they've succeeded so well that another game with them doesn't hold the same drama.

And the next games take us to the North, where the Qunari and the Tevinter are going at it tooth and claw, SOMETHING is up with the Anderfels' Wardens, *SPOILER*griffons babies amiright?* and we start getting ourselves embroiled in the North's troubles. Not that the Inquisitor goes poof, just that they've succeeded so well that another game with them doesn't hold the same drama.

But who's to say we don't get a bunch of juicy expansions and DLC's for the Inquisitor in the meantime?

EDIT: Goddammit people stop predicting my thoughts and posting them before I do. 

[BubbleDncr]

did you see what I found on EVERY TALK TABLE on the game ?

 

 

I think he was supposed to come back on the end (balcony scene) but they didn't have time to animate it

 

Wait what'd I miss?

[vierrae]

Now, me and my art again. Finally finished it. Not completely happy how it cane out, I totally pity my arts teacher doesn't work with PS. Anyways...

Spoiler

[Zarro-Morningstar]

I think the idea is that the Inquisitor has served as Andraste 2.0. The Inquisition has either restored the status quo, or created a new one. And in a November interview, Mike Laidlaw said that this will be the last main game to focus on the South for awhile.

So the Inquisitor makes all kinds of crazy, world-shattering decisions in the South and things stabilize. and we start getting ourselves embroiled in the North's troubles. Not that the Inquisitor goes poof, just that they've succeeded so well that another game with them doesn't hold the same drama.

And the next games take us to the North, where the Qunari and the Tevinter are going at it tooth and claw, SOMETHING is up with the Anderfels' Wardens, *SPOILER*griffons babies amiright?* and we start getting ourselves embroiled in the North's troubles. Not that the Inquisitor goes poof, just that they've succeeded so well that another game with them doesn't hold the same drama.

But who's to say we don't get a bunch of juicy expansions and DLC's for the Inquisitor in the meantime?

EDIT: Goddammit people stop predicting my thoughts and posting them before I do. 

I would love to go to Tevinter...it is Tevinter after all, lol!

 

I just really hope that there are a lot of dlcs and maybe a surprise expansion. I want closure with my romances and be able to get to know all the characters even more so...just give me something like the Citadel dlc and I will be content, lol!

[Eivuwan]

No no!  You in no way upset or offended me!  I feel like my opinion on the matter wouldn't do any good, really.  But maybe I should elaborate.

 

As a survivor, I have my own set of triggers that are a direct reflection of the abuse I suffered, and while others may share in some of the same triggers as I, not everyone does.  I think it's a very personal matter, and no two persons situations are alike.  For instance, I was never triggered in this game by any of the characters, but I know many were...

 

It was DA2 that triggered me, particularly the scene where the Champion has to go find Kelder during Magistrate's Orders, and you discover that he's basically been capturing and torturing young elf girls.  THAT triggered me, and I took much pleasure in letting Fenris kill that SOB.  Then, after the mission, I paused the game, and took some time to work through the anxiety I got from the mission.  Was that the writer's fault?  No, it's my abuser's fault.  Do I blame the writers for having the insensitivity to explore that form of depravity?  No, because it's an emotional game, with emotional stories, and emotional characters, and that very thing taps into our human feels.

 

I am no way discrediting those people who felt triggered by the Iron Bull/Dorian romance, or any other romance for that matter, because, that's their own personal view, colored by their own personal experiences, and saying they are wrong, would be invalidating them, and I would not wish that for myself.  Having people rally behind me when I needed it, saying they believed me, and supporting me was instrumental in climbing out of the devastation my abuser caused me.

 

Anyhoo, have some Solas, just in case the mood in here got sour...

 

 

Edited, like a thousand times, because apparently my fingers hate me and have a mind of their own.

 

If they made their point as calmly and as eloquently as you did, I'm sure it wouldn't have turned into a twitter argument.

[madrar]

This, definitely. I don't know if Corypheus was Solas's pawn for very long- but, that was certainly his intention at the beginning when he allowed his orb to be passed to him. 

 

The unfortunate thing about Solas is that anyone who knows his goals and is reasonably powerful can probably manipulate him fairly well. Solas has made this entire thing very personal, recklessly personal even. Whatever Solas thinks his plans are, I'm sure Flemeth/Mythal intends for him to do something else along the way. And if there's another god in the wing, it could be a very carefully orchestrated revenge trap. 

 

Solas's main fault is pride, and despite taking that as a name, I don't think he's quite realized that he's still making the same mistakes over and over again. 

 

I'm 50% on the "Solas-was-Mythal's-Lieutenant-and-still-mostly-is" bandwagon.  In that context, he's not being 'tricked'- the manipulation is quite direct.  

 

If it please the court!

 

Exhibit A:  I believe "his" orb is demonstrably Mythal's.  (Chewed over a bit earlier here.)  The evidence is admittedly thin, but what exists is compelling enough to work from.  We know each Old God had a focus dedicated to them.  I think we've now seen two of these foci in game.  

 

First is the blighted Red Lyrium Idol, focus of Elgar'nan.  Note how it's carved to depict his mythical "source"- the joining of Earth and Sun.  

 

 

 This is a terrible screenshot, so a little description: the top encircled figure being the representation of the Earth (possibly a synonym for the Stone) while the lower figure, the Sun, is wrapped by broken but still recognizably draconic elements, with veins of red blighted lyrium tethering some of the fractured parts.  In the lower right, you can see the head and stop of a torso that seems to be emerging from the area where the primary figures meet.  That'd be Elgar'nan.

 

The second is Solas' orb, focus of Mythal.  Note how it's carved to depict her mythical "source"- the rippling sea that covered Thedas from the Earth's tears.  

 

 

Is it a reach?  A bit.  But it fits too neatly for me not to buy in, in the absence of competing theory.  

 

Exhibit B:  The Dread Wolf's inclusion in the Pantheon

 

As discussed way back, Fen'Harel's universal depiction as Wolf sets him apart from the rest of the elvish Pantheon, and -most notably- his ToM mosaic prominently displays an orb in the place of the other gods' references to various myths or spheres of influence.  He is one of them and yet not, suggesting that he was raised to the position by someone within, much as Andruil raised Ghilan'nain.  Naturally there was a price, and I believe the transformation from feral Dread Wolf to faithful hound was it: the orb being symbolic of his leash.  (There are a lot of holes, gaps, and loose ends to pin down here- like whether this was a redemptive thing after an initial fall from grace and punishment, or whether the Dread Wolf was a primordial entity that existed in parallel to, but was fundamentally distinct from, the entities that became the Pantheon in the pre-veil world, etc.  Ignoring it all for now.)  

 

I don't mean to paint this as a forced thing by any means, though.  I think their objectives were largely aligned and he entered into Mythal's service freely, grateful (at least initially) for the opportunity to help build the world As It Should Be.  For the most part, I think their working relationship was more like Iron Bull and Krem than a Tevinter Magister and his slave.

 

...until what he wants conflicts with his Duty.   It's probably not accident that we're introduced to the phrase "halam'shivanas" at the Temple of Mythal.  At that point, the choke chain tightens and he literally cannot divert from his intended path.  Sad Lavellan times.

 

Exhibit C: The rotunda frescoes, and the lampshaded question of whose fortress Skyhold really is.   Poked at a bit here, but I think (in the less-than-a-day since that was posted) I've changed my mind, and am pretty much entirely on board with Skyhold being Mythal's.  The evidence is paper thin if you force yourself to ignore Exhibit A and B for the sake of objectivity, but if you hold Solas to his word that "Skyhold is her fortress" and "these are her actions", the inclusion of the final scene seals the deal.  The Inquisitor is not present.  There is a teeny, tiny fragment of a possibility that "she" is still a third party, directing this action- but the simplest explanation is even this was part of Mythal's plan.  She relenquishes her power willingly, knowing that Solas will use it to further their shared goals: restoration of the People and vengeance against Elgar'nan/the Sun.

 

Edit: gaaah, ignore Exhibit C. That'll teach me to theory before actually checking in-game. Skyhold's original ownership is completely up for grabs.

[Eivuwan]

I'm going to sleep now. I know that everyone on this thread including the straight guys want to do this to Solas. *1000 kisses*

[AryBoBary]

I'm going to sleep now. I know that everyone on this thread including the straight guys want to do this to Solas. *1000 kisses*

 

Goodnight, and thank you for your thoughtful reply. 

[AWTEW]

I agree Jo Wyatt snarks circles around Alex. Too bad Hawke didn't come off nearly snarky enough for me. Also I'm still annoyed at her hair

 

Yeah, there was a serious lack of snark in DAI. I get she was upset, but she managed to crack a joke at her own mothers death..Oh the lack of her DA@ hairstyle pissed me off to no end..

I really think that Bioware should have the IQ be the main lead in the next game or Hawke. The IQ is not just going to go poof...I swear if she does I am going to be deeply annoyed. She is nearly the most influential person in all of Southern Thedas...so her story is not done. Nor is Hawke's...but it seems they are writing them off just as the Warden.

 

I hope it's Hawke, and the Inquisitor. Or maybe, you could like switch halfway through the game.Play half as Hawke, and the other Half as the Inquisitor. There was so much potential for HAwke+ Inquisitor moments..and...they squandered it..*sigh*

[TanithAeyrs]

 

As for the discussion about the Creators and the Old Gods, this was brought up previously, and Gaider addressed it:

 

LOL, Gaider is sneaky.  He dances around canon lore (which we truly don't know) in a ballet of partial truths and misleading statements (Solas anyone?,  maybe that is where Weekes got some of his inspiration).  But we do find out Arlathan and Elvhen society destroyed themselves before the Imperium came into the picture.  And, it seems that some Elvhen gods do appear as dragons, at least sometimes (Flemeth)

 

This also raises the question of what Solas is capable of once he is no longer weak.  Mythal was technically dead with just her soul or divine essence inhabiting Flemeth and look at the power she wielded.  

 

One theory I have is that Solas may bring back/awaken a large number of ancient elves.  If they destroyed their own society through their lack of foresight and pride (Solas does comment on missing the "game") imagine the havoc they could create in an already divided Thedas, particularly if you add the reemergence of the Elvhen pantheon into the mix.  I still haven't decided how much of his comment when you take him to Halamshiral is sarcasm and how much is truth (maybe he doesn't even know).

[Caddius]

Really interesting ideas, Madrar.

But about 'Skyhold is her fortress', it does change depending on the sex of the Inquisitor. Since my male Templar got the 'Wake up' scene, the murals, and I was paranoid about those parentheses myself, I promptly made my first Solasmancing elf.  

[BlueElf2]

It's like dating Batman without knowing he's Batman.

Great boyfriend, very sweet, intelligent, badass, and obviously adores you. But he has an older and higher calling than you. What's more, Solas tries to warn you off of getting involved with him, and the Inquisitor (and the player) presses onward. Then he leaves, and it tears him off. That's not abuse, that's a break-up with some fancy-pants saving the People/Gotham City rationale.

Blackwall isn't abusive.

Cassandra isn't abusive.

Are they maybe talking about Josephine? It's not abusive to show off a dress your character can't wear.

*sigh*

 

It's like dating Batman without knowing he's Batman.

Great boyfriend, very sweet, intelligent, badass, and obviously adores you. But he has an older and higher calling than you. What's more, Solas tries to warn you off of getting involved with him, and the Inquisitor (and the player) presses onward. Then he leaves, and it tears him off. That's not abuse, that's a break-up with some fancy-pants saving the People/Gotham City rationale.

Blackwall isn't abusive.

Cassandra isn't abusive.

Are they maybe talking about Josephine? It's not abusive to show off a dress your character can't wear.

*sigh*

I can completely dig Solas as Batman. LOL

[madrar]

Really interesting ideas, Madrar.

But about 'Skyhold is her fortress', it does change depending on the sex of the Inquisitor. Since my male Templar got the 'Wake up' scene, the murals, and I was paranoid about those parentheses myself, I promptly made my first Solasmancing elf.  

 

Well crap.  There goes that idea.  Thanks for the sanity check!

[AWTEW]

Now, me and my art again. Finally finished it. Not completely happy how it cane out, I totally pity my arts teacher doesn't work with PS. Anyways...

Spoiler

 

I don't work with Photoshop either. I used to when IWas younger, but it became too much strain on the eyes, and honestly there is something soothing about real paint..

[tsunamitigerdragon]

.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

.

[Caddius]

Well crap.  There goes that idea.  Thanks for the sanity check!

No problem. I think Skyhold is somehow connected to the elven gods in general, though. Maybe even Solas specifically. Since it seems the elf gods could transform into dragons.

Well, look at the Undercroft. A cavern on the side of a mountain, with its sides twisted by 'incredible heat'. It'd make a pretty kickass dragon nest, or even a spot for a god to nip out for some sightseeing.

Looking back at the earlier theories you referenced...

You're definitely on to something with how differently Solas is depicted in the murals. My new pet theory is that Solas is the Formless One, and that the Forbidden Ones are the Forgotten Ones as well.

By pet theory, I mean idea that's only popped into my head today and will likely be popped after I think about it for a minute. 

Imshael certainly didn't seem to recognize Solas.

But perhaps the 'figure with many eyes that has one form or many' spotted in the Mythal codex entries (the judgement of a servant of Dirthamen one) was the Formless One. A rebellious shapeshifter who won the favor of Mythal. Perhaps it was Solas. *shrug* I definitely like the idea of Solas being a bit of an outsider. He's like Cole on a Templar run. Mythal trusts him implicitly, but the other gods are at first wary of him.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

.