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[nranola]

Oh darn I was just about to upload a screenshot of the altar.  I'll post it anyway.

Spoiler

defiled that altar like it's nobody's business aw yeah

 

Dumat was the archdemon of the First Blight, yeah, and the most powerful. The dragon of silence.

 

There's been speculation in the thread based on the Mythal mosaic unearthed from the rubble in the battle with Corypheus when he was calling out to Dumat, that Mythal could be Dumat, or something related? At any rate, there's a link between Mythal - or the elven gods in general - and the Old Gods that we can't shake off now.

 

According to the wikia entry, the sacrifices you can place at the altar are:

• Crown of Dumat
• Dumat's Sacrificial Dagger
• Dumat's Ritual Scroll
• Sacred Urn of Dumat

Any alarm bells ringing for anyone yet?  There's bound to be some clues in there...

[LliiraAnna]

Dumat was the first Archdemon. The Archdemon matched the appearances of the Dragon Dumat in Tevinter temples.

Maybe the Fen'harel mark is like the swatstika? In the sense that multiple cultures use it in a variety of ways, and it's kind of a popular thing?

I mean, Roman era Italian tribes were emblazoning the shields with swatstikas, Buddhism and Hinduism and Asia in general like to use it, and some guy in Central Europe evidently thought it was pretty snazzy.

How Solas came to give Corypheus the orb is one of the things I'm really curious about. Did he do it in disguise? Cory doesn't seem to recognize him. Was it willing? Did he think that Corypheus would go to an abandoned temple and try to get to the Fade, and that it would backfire? It's not even clear to me if Corypheus wanted the Breach to happen or if he just rolled with it.

Nightmare certainly seems to recognize Solas, what with the whole mocking him thing.

Some pages back, someone suggested that an (undisrupted) ritual could have released the power of the Orb, killing Corypheus in process and bestowing the Anchor on someone else (Solas himself?); it is possible that there was something else it was supposed to accomplish. But then the Iquisitor and the Divine happened.

[nranola]

Spoiler

Am I the only one who wanted the tattoos hidden? XD I really didn't like any of them so I made them really light so you cannot really see them.

 

Does she still have the vallaslin on in that shot? I... can't see them. 

 

I made Eisyrill's quite light. You can barely see them in certain lighting conditions. I headcanon it as the vallaslin being worn from years of having them. She's frequently out in the wilderness, so I imagine her face is constantly exposed to the elements.

 

Spoiler

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[Janic99]

Does she still have the vallaslin on in that shot? I... can't see them. 

 

I made Eisyrill's quite light. You can barely see them in certain lighting conditions. I headcanon it as the vallaslin being worn from years of having them. She's frequently out in the wilderness, so I imagine her face is constantly exposed to the elements.

Yes She does hahah and You can only see them slightly when the light is dark but even then it is hard to see them. Cool! I just somehow.. didn't find any of those vallaslin's to fitting my characters face so I decided to make them invisible. :3

[Rabbitonfire]

Does she still have the vallaslin on in that shot? I... can't see them. 
 
I made Eisyrill's quite light. You can barely see them in certain lighting conditions. I headcanon it as the vallaslin being worn from years of having them. She's frequently out in the wilderness, so I imagine her face is constantly exposed to the elements.

what? Arent vallaslins tattoos? They use ink and nail. doesn't sound like a good tattoo if it fades.

[Janic99]

what? Arent vallaslins tattoos? They use ink and nail. doesn't sound like a good tattoo if it fades.

Blood writing yes.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[dragondreamer]

I'm glad you said it, because my Lavellan felt almost the exact same way.

 

My Lavellan knows the Dalish are flawed and mistaken (especially since I headcanoned that she was city-born and was often called "flat-ear" and "seth-lin" growing up), but she doesn't see that as a reason to condemn, disown, or give up on them. She doesn't believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. That is, just because the Dalish are flawed doesn't mean we should discard them completely, throwing out the good with the bad.

 

My Lavellan sees the Dalish as people who are doing the best they can with the limited information they have. They as a culture try to learn about their past, and that has value even if it is imperfectly implemented. Sure, the Dalish don't know everything about their past (not even most of it, now that people like Solas and Abelas have come forward) and often get the details wrong when they do. But that's part of learning and growing. You learn that things you thought you knew before were incorrect, or learn new details to things you already did, or learn completely new things that you never dreamed of. Just because the Dalish are still in the process of rediscovering and rebuilding the past doesn't mean they'll never get there, or that everything they've gained so far is automatically worthless.

 

That's why my Lavellan defends the Dalish to Sera and Solas every time they disparage them; not in a belligerent "How dare you insult our heritage!" way, but gently asking, "So the Dalish made some mistakes, does that mean they were wrong about everything?" or "There's so much history and tradition there, should we throw it all away?"

 

And that ties back into vallaslin. Agreed with your Lavellan so much on her stance on the vallaslin.

 

Exactly. 

 

Regarding pillars of earth: I do see a connection here.

 

Gatsi says something about a quarry called the Thousand Pillars, and that it's very strange, because the stone isn't stone, it's something like a very strong mortar.  I don't know if it has anything to do with the "pillars of the earth", but I've been turning the idea around and around....

 

Wait, wait.  Wasn't that in the Crow Fens?  I could have sworn the offering table was in a Mythal-related area, but have no idea where that gut feeling is coming from, or if it's based on anything real.  =w=  Sanity check, anyone?  

 

The Fen'Harel shrine was in the Crow Fens, yes.

[Janic99]

I love this girl's brain and idea and how she explains stuff about Solas:

 

Spoiler

[nranola]

what? Arent vallaslins tattoos? They use ink and nail. doesn't sound like a good tattoo if it fades.

 

I'll admit I'm not overly familiar with how tattoos work, or how different vallaslin is from how we do it in real life. I thought the colors dull over time if not taken care of properly? Like being exposed to the sun constantly and such? If I'm wrong in this please slap me and point me to the right direction. 

[Kittn]

"Merrill states that the cave was once the site of a battle between the Tevinter Imperium and Elvhenan, where the elves fought upon the bones of their ancestors in a desperate last stand."

And it's called "Pride's End".

 

And then we have Solas/Pride and "What Pride has Wrought" and... am I sensing some kind of underlying theme here? 

 

It does seem to have a very strong "Pride" undercurrent. It's practically everywhere you turn, and even more noticeable on a second playthrough once the stinger has been revealed. Just like the wolf statues, pride is everywhere. Even Solas's friend Wisdom turned into a Pride demon.

 

There's also heavy foreshadowing. Some of it seemed sort of subtle, as this is my third time hearing it and I only just realised that Hawke seems to be saying a lot about Solas's self-imposed future when she said, "Everyone has a story to tell themselves to justify bad decisions, and it never matters. In the end you are always alone with your actions."

 

... And I just gave myself a sad. :C

 

Back on the theory train: It's a relief Solas can't be the actual Dumat then, on account of Dumat being deaded. Is it possible he picked up the dormant or weakened power/spirit of Dumat in the Fade somehow, and thus was able to hear Cory's prayer and approach him with the orb?

 

Doesn't explain that creepy 4 armed monkey statue or whatever it is, though. Or why these statues (assuming they all behave the same) pulse with life. Hidden Lyrium? Magic prisons? Ugly Fade landlines for contacting pride demons?

 

Dammit, Solas. You were standing RIGHT there with Tiger when she found this creepy-ass thing. Why didn't you say anything wise and all knowing about it?

[nranola]

What if... what if the Dumat statue is a statue of June, if we're going by the June = Sandal theory. Sandal always looked a bit weird...

 

The statue has 4 hands. All the more to craft/enchant with? And he's the god of silence because he barely talks...?

 

 

I don't even know anymore.

[RebbyWriter]

I can't sleep so I'm writing a fic about younger Solas/Fen'harel. Not sure if anyone cares no smut but it gets my mind swimming with all the ideas of what could have been/possibly happened. I may end up facepalming years from now but what the hell. lol

[Kittn]

What if... what if the Dumat statue is a statue of June, if we're going by the June = Sandal theory. Sandal always looked a bit weird...
 
The statue has 4 hands. All the more to craft/enchant with? And he's the god of silence because he barely talks...?
 
 
I don't even know anymore.

 

I suppose that's one way to be able to get some sleep now without my brain going AWOL on this stuff. When something is clearly connected but can't be explained? It has to be June.

 

Also Caddius brought up an excellent point. If Solas literally handed his orb to Corypheus, why doesn't he recognize our elfin demi-god at all? He must have had some alternate method of delivery. A four-armed, monkey-faced Thedasian postal employee, perhaps?

 

AKA: June.

 

 

[Addai]

I always figured Justinia was an abomination in the way that Wynne was, and that's why he wanted her for his blood sacrifice.  Spell misfires, orb goes boom, Justinia was vaporized, and the poor spirit is left in the Fade taking Justinia's form.  It sees the inquisitor so it helps them.

There has to be something with her. As I was speculating yesterday, I asked- how did the Divine survive the blast? Well, she didn't. When you first see her at the top of the stair, she's glowing like the spirit does later. The spirit lets you think she died when the demons pulled her back down, but the human Justinia was already dead. Or the distinction doesn't matter because she was a spirit-mortal hybrid all along.

[LliiraAnna]

- ramble ramble -

 

All this talk of Dumat made me think...

 

Alright, so we have Darkspawn. The Taint in them works as a Hive Mind of sorts. That's also how Archdemons control Darkspawn: through the Taint.

 

When there is no Blight, Darkspawn apparently spend their time underground looking for Old Gods. When they find one, they taint it and it becomes an Archdemon.

 

How do they find those Old Gods? Because of "the Song". Now, Red Lyrium - which is Blighted Lyrium - makes people hear "singing" too.

 

But, if the Old Gods sleeping underground are not tainted, they can't have access to the "Taint Network" and cannot control Darkspawn this way. So, their Song should be different from the Taint Song, but Darkspawn can still hear it and it draws them to Old Gods. So, controlling Darkspawn is not a matter of being tainted, but a matter of being an Old God. They are the only ones capable of doing this.

 

Now, why would Darkspawn hear Old Gods singing? Why does this Song drive them to Old Gods? If the theory about the Taint being a corruption of a fundamental system is correct, does this mean that the Taint in them makes Darkspawn interpret an Old God's song in a wrong way and taint them instead of... I dunno... staying away? 

 

Why am I writing this? I AM CONFUSED, that's why. I get a feeling that DA is becoming some kind of musical. EVERYTHING sings. It has to be important, right?    *headshot* 

[tsunamitigerdragon]

.

[slmisfit]

what? Arent vallaslins tattoos? They use ink and nail. doesn't sound like a good tattoo if it fades.

Tattoos fade over time, even good ones. This is especially true if you're constantly exposing them to the elements.

[LliiraAnna]

It reminds me of Tolkien's founding myth for his tales. The world begins with a song - a thought I've always found beautiful.
 

A concept I've been mulling around is the concept of the song being... what it was to be whole. The darkspawn seek out the Old Gods because they sing of a time when they were whole, when the world was whole. The blight has its own song, one that's twisted. Templars, through whatever rituals or lyrium usage they go through sing with an old song according to Cole and it leaves them... wanting. Missing something.

Demons seek out humans because they want to taste life - but they fundamentally can't understand it because they're cut off from it. Humans seek out demons to be able to obtain their desires and dreams - something that also seems strange. They're essentially calling out for one another if you look at it from that perspective - like hearing a song played on the piano with only one hand but needs the left to give it depth.
 

Sandal talks about a time when the whole world sang the same and that such a time would soon becoming.

Cole mentions it in his banter with Solas, too; "An old pain, from the times when everything sang the same".

 

Dagna says that "[her] thought was the thought of all dwarves", like they were one and whole. I think it happened when she was studying lyrium.

 

Now, who was Melkor of the DA universe, I wonder.

[dragondreamer]

Cole says Solas' pain comes from a time when everyone sang the same.  (When everyone was "real"? Before the veil?  When everyone had magic?)  Interesting that the Chantry also believes that the Maker will return when the chant is sung in all corners of Thedas.  When the magic comes back, all of it, when he rises, everyone will see?

 

“Weep not for me, child. Stone they made me and stone I am, eternal and unfeeling. And I shall endure 'til the Maker returns to light their fires again.”

 

http://dragonage.wik...i/Eleni_Zinovia

 

I don't think Fen'Harel is the Maker, but some connections just really pop...

[Nika]

Flemeth says "Alas, so long as the music plays, we dance" in a sad tone
Perhaps she's being controlled or something?

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Whoo, redoing this for my 'canon' run, and...grumpy with my mage about the Templars as he was, he was still willing to sloppy kiss in the Fade. 

 

 

heeeerrreee we gooooo. 

 

Planning on letting the Wardens off the hook again too, I imagine there will be words. Gonna be rocky I'm sure, but oh well. Rocky relationship is more interesting...right? :S

[Shari'El]

Q-Q

 

I never took this option before...my heart is shattered. SHATTERED

 

 

from throvia

 

Also, you guys are super addicting. I should really be doing some work right now, but lolnope.

 

-Screams-

I didn't manage to bring myself to say that.

This is horrible.

[nranola]

There has to be something with her. As I was speculating yesterday, I asked- how did the Divine survive the blast? Well, she didn't. When you first see her at the top of the stair, she's glowing like the spirit does later. The spirit lets you think she died when the demons pulled her back down, but the human Justinia was already dead. Or the distinction doesn't matter because she was a spirit-mortal hybrid all along.

 

It's not a stretch to think that a spirit of faith would be drawn to Justinia, so I wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be true.