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[Siha]

Mythal was murdered, which I take to mean her original (elven?) body was killed.

In all the fantasy and science fiction I've surrounded myself with, this is a notion I never fully accepted. Seen from a scientific point of view, anything organic decays and to be "immortal" cells must renew just as quickly as they decay. Since every split second means decay, they must renew faster than that, which again would mean that the being cannot be killed because it would renew even faster than the act of killing could actually be executed.

[BlueElf2]

But Solas has this conversation about the "immortality of elves" and claims it is just a myth. Even accounting for a looong life, a single immortal body cannot possibly last that long? Especially when he stresses that the old gods were no gods at all, but simply powerful mages?
I do not know. But if Mythal must find a new body whenever the last one starts to fail, why would Fen'harel be better off? They are, after all, "one people".

I don't remember him saying immortality was a myth. He did say that the ancient elves were immortal, just that it wasn't because of magic but just part of being elfy. I'm more leaning toward the idea that Solas is Fen'harel, that he always has been and is just very old, as opposed to a body hopping spirit like Mythal. I think it's important to remember that Mythal was murdered so has lost her original body, but I haven't seen anything lore wise to make me think the same of Solas. The game seems to point to him having been asleep for a long time, so my belief is that he still has his original body. I feel that Mythal may be an exception with her body hopping as far as the elven gods go.

[miraclemight]

On the subject of Solas' appearance - I still believe Fen'Harel was not an elf, because his mosaic. He is not even depicted like the others. So whether he possessed an ancient elf body sometime before or conjured one for himself like Cole, I have no idea.

 

And I have a feeling it is no coincidence that his name means 'Pride' in elven. Even Vivienne remarks that he sounds like a Pride demon... The Solasan Temple used to house a Pride demon...

 

If he turns out to be a mega Pride demon... *eye twitch*

[Illyria]

In all the fantasy and science fiction I've surrounded myself with, this is a notion I never fully accepted. Seen from a scientific point of view, anything organic decays and to be "immortal" cells must renew just as quickly as they decay. Since every split second means decay, they must renew faster than that, which again would mean that the being cannot be killed because it would renew even faster than the act of killing could actually be executed.

 

I've come accross this type of immortality quite a lot in fantasty and sci-fi (the Krogan and Asari, to use Bioware examples).  I think this is the type of immortality that Tolkien's elves have (Tolkien nerds correct me if I'm wrong).  They're not the 'never killed' kind of immortal, but rather 'immortal unless killed'.

[Sine_Amore]

Ermahgerd, Happy Belated 2000 Pages Solas thread

[Siha]

If he turns out to be a mega Pride demon... *eye twitch*

Why not? Solas told us that there is no black-and-white in any demon, that they are twisted by the "real world". If he was fuelled by pride, that is not too bad. Pride is not necessarily an evil trait of character.

 

By the way, nice theory.

[LliiraAnna]

On the subject of Solas' appearance - I still believe Fen'Harel was not an elf, because his mosaic. He is not even depicted like the others. So whether he possessed an ancient elf body sometime before or conjured one for himself like Cole, I have no idea.

 

And I have a feeling it is no coincidence that his name means 'Pride' in elven. Even Vivienne remarks that he sounds like a Pride demon... The Solasan Temple used to house a Pride demon...

 

If he turns out to be a mega Pride demon... *eye twitch*

I believe it's not Vivienne who told him he sounds like a Pride demon, but the other way around:

 

Solas: Enchanter. Any Pride Demon you met would just walk away, shaking its head and laughing uncontrollably.

Vivienne: Oh, darling, more than one already has.

 

But, the fact that he is the only one not depicted as an elf is interesting, I agree.

[Siha]

I've come accross this type of immortality quite a lot in fantasty and sci-fi (the Krogan and Asari, to use Bioware examples).  I think this is the type of immortality that Tolkien's elves have (Tolkien nerds correct me if I'm wrong).  They're not the 'never killed' kind of immortal, but rather 'immortal unless killed'.

No, you are not mistaken. It is Tolkien lore and I look at it with the same thoughts now as I did when I first read Tolkien. I am willing to accept it as a basis for fantasy, but it does not really make much sense to me.

I prefer the Doctor Who idea - they regenerate and only die if they cannot regenerate quickly enough (= are killed).

[miraclemight]

I've come accross this type of immortality quite a lot in fantasty and sci-fi (the Krogan and Asari, to use Bioware examples).  I think this is the type of immortality that Tolkien's elves have (Tolkien nerds correct me if I'm wrong).  They're not the 'never killed' kind of immortal, but rather 'immortal unless killed'.

 

'Immortal' simply means having a never-ending lifespan. 'Invincible' means... well, invincible.

 

 

Solas' tarot card:

 

http://img2.wikia.no...e/ef/Solase.png

 

Do we have other creatures aside from griffons and Pride demons who have six eyes? (Technically, Prides have seven, with one in the middle, but it's hard to tell with that tarot card.)

[BlueElf2]

In all the fantasy and science fiction I've surrounded myself with, this is a notion I never fully accepted. Seen from a scientific point of view, anything organic decays and to be "immortal" cells must renew just as quickly as they decay. Since every split second means decay, they must renew faster than that, which again would mean that the being cannot be killed because it would renew even faster than the act of killing could actually be executed.

Definitely scientifically true, but I somehow doubt most fantasy creators are thinking that deeply into immortality considering how common it is in fantasy stories. I think the immortality of the ancient elves, while Solas says is not achieved through magic spells, is probably tied to the magical qualities already inherent in just being an ancient elf...though I'm not certain how they lost it due to the humans, though that appears to be what happened. Maybe something about coming in contact with humans caused a change in the very nature of elves, but I'm not sure how that works.

[Mims]

'Immortal' simply means having a never-ending lifespan. 'Invincible' means... well, invincible.

 

 

Solas' tarot card:

 

http://img2.wikia.no...e/ef/Solase.png

 

Do we have other creatures aside from griffons and Pride demons who have six eyes? (Technically, Prides have seven, with one in the middle, but it's hard to tell with that tarot card.)

 

As much as I like the six eye design, I actually think the design has more to do with the artist that drew the cards than what the Dread Wolf actually looks like. If you notice blackwall's card, the gyphon also has three eyes. Three eyes are fairly symbolic- two eyes to see the world, and a third eye to see what is beyond. 

 

Edit: My apologies, didn't see you referenced the Blackwall card already! I do think it is more of a stylistic choice though. 

[Siha]

Just because I came across it a second ago - what about Cole saying "Never trust half an elf."? I confess, I cannot always understand what he refers to, but I used to think he meant Solas?

[Illyria]

'Immortal' simply means having a never-ending lifespan. 'Invincible' means... well, invincible.

 

 

Yeah, I know.  But there seems to be a large amount of people who don't know this (that is not a comment directed at anything anyone has said in this thread.  I mean in general).

 

And some types of immortality fall into both catergories.  Jack Harkness from Torchwood and Doctor Who both can't be killed and can't die and ages very slowley.  Van Hohenhiem from Fullmetal Alchemist doesn't age, can't die and can't be killed.

[Siha]

though I'm not certain how they lost it due to the humans, though that appears to be what happened. Maybe something about coming in contact with humans caused a change in the very nature of elves, but I'm not sure how that works.

Maybe by mating with humans? Or simply "forgetting" the necessary spells (or whatever), so their magic became less powerful... like magical decay? If we accept organic beings to follow unorganic rules, we probably can accept this, too.

[MWImexico]

On the subject of Solas' appearance - I still believe Fen'Harel was not an elf, because his mosaic. He is not even depicted like the others. So whether he possessed an ancient elf body sometime before or conjured one for himself like Cole, I have no idea.

...

 

I wonder if all the ancient elves were supposed to be giant like Abelas? Because, if it's so then Solas should look taller than a contemporain elf, right?

[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[Arlee]

I wonder if all the ancient elves were supposed to be giant like Abelas? Because, if it's so then Solas should look taller than a contemporain elf, right?

 

Abelas was giant? I recall him being tall but not unusually so.

[BlueElf2]

Just because I came across it a second ago - what about Cole saying "Never trust half an elf."? I confess, I cannot always understand what he refers to, but I used to think he meant Solas?

I'm honestly not sure what he means there. I don't think he means Solas (I don't necessarily believe Solas is half elf. Even if he is a spirit turned elf like Cole made his own body, I don't consider that to make him half an elf). I'm wondering if maybe that's another of Cole's random movie references. With Cole, it's difficult to say, but I swear I've heard a similar phrase in a movie. It just sounds so familiar for some reason. Also, in Cole's personal quest, I think it's evident that Cole trusts Solas implicitly over everyone else, so the line doesn't really make sense in regards to Solas.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[Siha]

Jack Harkness from Torchwood and Doctor Who both can't be killed and can't die and ages very slowley.

We do not know that for sure. He cannot be killed, yes. But he probably can die. Nothing has ever been confirmed, only that the Doctor will not meet him again after the third meeting.

And this does add up - his cells renew too quickly for him to be killed, because any damage done to him will be fixed before it can end his life. But he does age, so regeneration is not quick enough to counteract decay.

 

I know immortal is not invincible. But still I know that every organic cell decays with every passing moment. To NEVER die, decay and regeneration must happen at the same speed (= instantly, because else renewal is slower than decay) an that speed definitely is quicker than stabbing/shotting/slicing or whatever way of killing.

[BlueElf2]

Maybe by mating with humans? Or simply "forgetting" the necessary spells (or whatever), so their magic became less powerful... like magical decay? If we accept organic beings to follow unorganic rules, we probably can accept this, too.

I think they started losing immortality just by trading with humans, so maybe along the lines of magical decay like you said. Perhaps something in the nature of humans was so counter to what the elves were that it started eroding their very natures.

[MWImexico]

Abelas was giant? I recall him being tall but not unusually so.

 

I meant "taller than the contemporary elves", not giant like the giants from emprise du lion XD

[Seregwen]

I'm honestly not sure what he means there. I don't think he means Solas (I don't necessarily believe Solas is half elf. Even if he is a spirit turned elf like Cole made his own body, I don't consider that to make him half an elf). I'm wondering if maybe that's another of Cole's random movie references. With Cole, it's difficult to say, but I swear I've heard a similar phrase in a movie. It just sounds so familiar for some reason. Also, in Cole's personal quest, I think it's evident that Cole trusts Solas implicitly over everyone else, so the line doesn't really make sense in regards to Solas.

I think there is a "Never trust an elf," phrase from the hobbit movies? Maybe it was a Tolkein original? It's been a long time since I read it.

 

List of known half elves:

 

Alistair

Sandal (speculated?!)

Feynriel

Sera (we know nothing about her parentage? though I imagine she is not half)

Michele (that chev guy)

Kieran (if warden was elven and did it with morrigan, though he says this in all playthroughs so it can't be right)

 

I have no other thoughts on this really!

 

If Mythal is a human, as some people speculate, then it is possible also that Solas could fall into this category, though I do not subscribe to this theory.

[Siha]

This line has been attributed to Cole talking about Alistair. I'm not necessarily sure why, but that's the common consensus. 

How is Alistair half an elf?

 

Mating was just an option, by the way. I just wanted to indicate "It could be anything" because there are so many possibilities.