I have a problem. A really huge one.
Do you, guys, remember the moment during In Your Heart Shall Burn, when Quizzie has to run to trebuchet and drop half a mountain on Cory's head? And the music that played? Well, I can't seem to find this particular piece in the soundtrack. It is there, isn't it? And I'm just plain stupid, right?
I have a problem. A really huge one.
Do you, guys, remember the moment during In Your Heart Shall Burn, when Quizzie has to run to trebuchet and drop half a mountain on Cory's head? And the music that played? Well, I can't seem to find this particular piece in the soundtrack. It is there, isn't it? And I'm just plain stupid, right?
Lol. Not all the music is in the soundtrack is it?
Haha I realize there are two kinds of people in this thread.
Here for smut or here for deep theory conversations.
Maybe both, but not on the same day. Lol.
Believe it or not, there are a few people who follow this thread for insight into the game lore and who aren't actually into the Solas character at all, romantically or otherwise. Of course, anyone who identified themselves as such here would be placing themselves in mortal danger. I would advise them to keep quiet as they take notes. At best, they should make only an occasional remark or off topic joke about elfroot salves. 
Believe it or not, there are a few people who follow this thread for insight into the game lore and who aren't actually into the Solas character at all, romantically or otherwise. Of course, anyone who identified themselves as such here would be placing themselves in mortal danger. I would advise them to keep quiet as they take notes. At best, they should make only an occasional remark or off topic joke about elfroot salves.
I just want to say Happy Birthday and GOD Bless.
I remember you saying it was your birthday today last night on the forum...hope I'm right lol
Just came back from dinner with the fam, so I'm catching up on this thread and replying to you before I forget. Thank you, dear. 
Yep! That's the myth I was thinking of. Just pondering whether "hunting the halla without Andruil's blessing" was myth-code for getting a little too friendly with Ghilan'nain. @w@ We know how much Sera likes to share.
As for the mosaic, I could definitely go either way. Could easily just be the face she wanted to present outside the Pantheon, even if it wasn't the literal truth. The source of Mythal's physical body is posing a mental roadblock for me, with the mounting evidence that she was the Earth as well as Mythal, which could very well make her true form fundamentally different from the rest of the Pantheon, like the Sun's is.
Both dragons? Possibly. But that does crazy things in my head with "seraphym" literally meaning "burning ones", and being represented as serpents in the Hebrew bible.
*facepalm*
Just... no. Please no. The last thing we need now is another layer of Maker tossed on the pile.
my god it's rebellion after rebellion all the way down
Hahaha our Fen'Harel - what a dog! 
And I think I am finally seeing your Mythal/Earth, Elga'nan/Sun references (aha) Do you have your full theory handy for linky?
I.... remember the tale of Andruil chaining Fen'Harel to the tree, but not this? Can anyone confirm/evaluate? If halla really are one of Ghilan'nain's creations through experimenting with putting spirits of something into animals, I'm wondering why Fen'Harel would have been hunting them?
And quoting myself because it's obvious. If Ghilan'nain was trapping spirits in animal bodies, Fen'Harel would want to "free" them *facepalm.
Haha I realize there are two kinds of people in this thread.
Here for smut or here for deep theory conversations.
Maybe both, but not on the same day. Lol.
Let's face it, Solasmancers are the best kind of people for both? 
Believe it or not, there are a few people who follow this thread for insight into the game lore and who aren't actually into the Solas character at all, romantically or otherwise. Of course, anyone who identified themselves as such here would be placing themselves in mortal danger. I would advise them to keep quiet as they take notes. At best, they should make only an occasional remark or off topic joke about elfroot salves.
There's certainly nothing wrong with not being interested in Solas beyond a lore point of view, and no reason to not speak up, offer insight, or ask questions. Some people do seem to get a bit, ah, off topic... but ultimately this is a character thread and welcomes all questions and relevant conversation about the character. Never fear speaking up, folks, as long as it's done respectfully. 
I think its very unlikely that we'll see Fen'Harel actually having been more than just Fen'Harel.
The average person is not reading super into lore- at best they are partially familiar with the elven gods. It would become super confusing if they then started throwing on other identities with little lead up to the fact. Elven gods are not the only characters in the story. They do want to keep some wider, narrative cohesion. If it was something they were planning to do, I am certain they would have at least hinted such a thing in the game.
At the moment, I can't think of anything to suggest that Fen'Harel is anything but Fen'Harel. Anything beyond that is speculation, and as someone who enjoys speculating, you can bend almost any information to fit a theory. It is fun! But ultimately the easiest answer is usually the correct one.
If the statue in Flemeth's fade world is intended to be of Dirthamen, she wouldn't be stabbing him in the back if he was also Fen'Harel. Solas also has some fairly negative words for Falon'Din. Solas has a lot of guilt, certainly. But it did not seem as though he were speaking of himself when he reminisced about him.
Looking down on certain groups isn't limited to the elves, but I'd agree that trying to hold onto their heritage is certainly part of elven culture. The dwarves have something similar with the casteless and their view that the surface dwarves lost their "Stone Sense", or with Chantry viewing humans as close to the Maker, while non-humans are further away (which is cited as the reason why only humans can join the priesthood). I think the difference with the elves is how the Dalish struggle to maintain their culture despite the Chantry trying to tear it down and outlaw it, while the Alienage elves struggle to hold onto what little elven culture they were allowed to have while living in dilapidated sections of the city with little rights and a bleak future for many.
I suppose it's similar to Merrill, in that regard. She had little contact with others outside her clan, but she expresses the view that the Kirkwall elves are 'elves' in Act I, approval for not hurting the Fereldan refugees, and even concern for the Starkhaven shemlen who need help.
True enough about how the other races look down on outsiders.
I suppose it's no different from how the Iron Bull refuses to believe that any Tal-Vashoth won't resort to murder and banditry the moment they leave the Qun, despite the Qunquisitor (a Vashoth) having been brought up and raised among such individuals without incident for years.
Or Varric's dislike for Orzammar, as much as Orzammar dislikes a surfacer like him? One can only wonder how they feel about the various heads of "noble" surface houses and those who run the Merchant's Guild being referred to as "Deshyrs"?
As for Kirkwall's Alienage, they seemed to accept Merrill with barely any fuss whatsoever. I guess it's from having Arianni living there for years and getting them used to seeing a Dalish, but then again, during that scene with Marethari going to the Alienage, they seemed to show her quite a bit of reverence. As Merrill comments if she destroys the mirror, her lack of friends in the Alienage had more to do with her keeping herself reclusive, than any kind of ostracism at work.
I couldn't disagree more strongly. Clan Lavellan could have left without incident to themselves, but it's specifically addressed that Clan Lavellan refused to abandon the Andrastian elves to die. It had nothing to do with pragmatism, and everything to do with protecting the men, women, and children in the Alienage who had no one to defend them but Clan Lavellan.
Perhaps you're right, it does speak well of them that they continued to stay even though it can lead to their deaths.
Now I think about it, Clan Lavellen do seem to be unusual in how welcoming towards the humans and alienage elves they are. It makes me wonder if perhaps they (and perhaps some other Dalish clans) wish for closer ties to the humans and their city-dwelling kin, but find that human bigotry is the obstacle that keeps them apart? It's interesting that if they join the Council in Wycombe, they have absolutely no problems with the other human members?
Pretty much. Intolerance comes in all forms, from all directions.
I like the Dalish, but I'll admit to their faults. As long as someone doesn't condemn the same faults in the Dalish that they completely excuse in non-Dalish, or act like only the Dalish can be intolerant when plenty of non-Dalish act like it too (SERA, breaking up with the Dalish Inquisitor if she refuses to completely agree that all of her elven heritage sucks and should be forgotten; CASSANDRA, Miss "And there is not room among your gods for one more?" or "Why are we completing these heathen rituals?" to a Dalish Inquisitor??), I'm good.
Every group is flawed in Thedas. The Dalish are no different - they are simply an ethnic group of people, with all the good and bad that comes with it. We also see how different the clans can be from one another, from the lore to the main narratives. You had Clan Virnehn abandon the Halamshiral elves to die, while you had Clan Lavellan see the Wycome elves as worth protecting, even if they gave up their lives to do so.
As for Sera and Cassandra, I think it's natural for some Andrastians to have trouble with grasping that people of other faiths simply don't follow the Maker. Ah, Cassandra, if only my Lavellan could answer "no".
Super late to the party, but happy 2000 pages everyone! 
<-- pretend this is a party hat and the candle from a delicious wolf-shaped cake
Just wanted to pull this from forever ago and re-quote cause I really liked it:
If Solas WERE a demon, yes, he would be a "Pride Demon" but I'm gonna have to pull a Solas and say it's more complex than that. He'd be a Wisdom-Pride demon depending upon how the person interacting with him chose to see him. <snip>
EDIT: And for extra parallels - the same could be said for those who would wish to see him as a villain. He'd be one because that's how you've chosen to see him and he would morph to suit your expectations. If you're willing to understand him, see the nuance, the truth would be more varied and complex - an anti-hero at worst, a misinterpreted hero at best.
I think this description fits Solas's final tarot cards perfectly as well. I'm not confident that his future actions will necessarily change based on his relationship with the Inquisitor, but certainly player perception of those actions will. After going through the the romance, I'm much more likely to see the wisdom in his path, even if there are dire consequences. And probably the folks posting slow motion punch-Solas-in-the-face videos will view the exact same actions as proof of his arrogant pride.
Speaking of tarot cards, the Tower freaks me out a little. It really looks like the shadowy wolf is going to devour him. I wish there was a t-shirt version available of the Hierophant.
I am still pretty torn on the drink from the well/let Morri drink and remove the vallaslin/keep it.
It is hard for my mage Levallan to let go all of the ancient knowledge if Morrigan drinks from the well. Still, she is aware of the geas and being bound like that is a major violation of her freedom. She still believes in elven gods whilst Morrigan ridicules the idea and is not afraid of the immediate consequences. It is hard not to meta game this decision. For instance I do think that Mythal's spirit will be preserved, most likely in Morrigan and I want to keep my options open, i.e. not being forced to stand against Solas (I still might do depending on circumstances but would prefer to make the decision myself).
As for the vallaslin, my girl is pretty much on the fence, that's why I struggle so much. There is good argument to do either, and the lines delivered by Lavellan are strong in both situations. Again, I love the removal scene and how vulnerable my girl is without it, with her utmost belief in Solas and what he represents and then him leaving and her staying with nothing. It had such an impact on me seeing her so naked.
Lol. Not all the music is in the soundtrack is it?
Dang, what is the point of a soundtrack, then? 
There's certainly nothing wrong with not being interested in Solas beyond a lore point of view, and no reason to not speak up, offer insight, or ask questions. Some people do seem to get a bit, ah, off topic... but ultimately this is a character thread and welcomes all questions and relevant conversation about the character. Never fear speaking up, folks, as long as it's done respectfully.
And this is part of why this thread is ten million times better than the Mass Effect 3 Liara thread from a few years ago. I couldn't even risk opening that thread in a public environment or around children.
*glances at Solas grunt compilation* So far this thread is far tamer and much easier to approach. Carry on.
I don't think I've snorted that hard in a while.
I would like to see this kind of romance scene when he actually turns and he tells her: '' Get out! I don't want to hurt you! ''
x3
Guest_Faerunner_*
Every group is flawed in Thedas. The Dalish are no different - they are simply an ethnic group of people, with all the good and bad that comes with it. We also see how different the clans can be from one another, from the lore to the main narratives. You had Clan Virnehn abandon the Halamshiral elves to die, while you had Clan Lavellan see the Wycome elves as worth protecting, even if they gave up their lives to do so.
As for Sera and Cassandra, I think it's natural for some Andrastians to have trouble with grasping that people of other faiths simply don't follow the Maker. Ah, Cassandra, if only my Lavellan could answer "no".
Yup. Every group is flawed, so might as well go with the group you personally like instead of the one you see as "less flawed/more perfect" than others.
I guess I was unfair to Cassandra. I actually really like her, and I somehow managed to highly raise her approval, get her to consider my Inquisitor a close friend, and honestly get my Inquisitor to consider her one of her most trusted allies, despite how my Quizzy consistently sided with mages and "heathen" elven stuff all the way through.
I guess it's Sera's complete and utter rejection of anything "too elfy" and her refusal to even consider that there might be some value in any of it (even if she doesn't see it) just gets to me. Then again, blithe dismissal and stubborn refusal to even entertain the possibility that there might any value in something irks me no matter who says it.
Dang, what is the point of a soundtrack, then?
its called The Elder One Theme on the soundtrack
I don't think I've snorted that hard in a while.
I know the feeling mate XD
Pretty much. Intolerance comes in all forms, from all directions.
I like the Dalish, but I'll admit to their faults. As long as someone doesn't condemn the same faults in the Dalish that they completely excuse in non-Dalish, or act like only the Dalish can be intolerant when plenty of non-Dalish act like it too (SERA, breaking up with the Dalish Inquisitor if she refuses to completely agree that all of her elven heritage sucks and should be forgotten), I'm good.
This entirely!
This is why I find myself irritated by those argument threads that spring up every now and again over who is more in the "right" between Sebastian and Anders at the end of DA2, when in reality, both of them ended up being just as bad, hypocritical and self-righteous as each other! The only reason I tend to side with Anders in those threads is because you can at least argue migating factors in that he's obviously possessed, even though I think that what he did at the end of DA2 was completely wrong.
Regardless of whether or not I actually like those characters, I definitely agree that it's entirely unfair to judge one character against another character for flaws that people will praise in another character entirely. Like, Fenris can be just as a obnoxious, petty and mean as Anders (and jealous if the other is romancing Hawke), but he rarely gets the hate for it?
But this is getting off-topic, and to quote Picard, becoming a speech! 
Hmm, what if Fen'harel was able to seal the gods away because he stole some knowledge from Falon'din and Dirthamen? Maybe he figured out the location of the place where souls go after death from Falon'Din. And from Dirthamen he discovered the secret of how to force souls to that place. Perhaps he also tricked them and stole some of their unique powers. After he did that, he was now able to seal all the gods away into the beyond.
I would like to see this kind of romance scene when he actually turns and he tells her: '' Get out! I don't want to hurt you! ''
x3
I don't want Solas to go through all that. =(
True enough about how the other races look down on outsiders.
I suppose it's no different from how the Iron Bull refuses to believe that any Tal-Vashoth won't resort to murder and banditry the moment they leave the Qun, despite the Qunquisitor (a Vashoth) having been brought up and raised among such individuals without incident for years.
Or Varric's dislike for Orzammar, as much as Orzammar dislikes a surfacer like him? One can only wonder how they feel about the various heads of "noble" surface houses and those who run the Merchant's Guild being referred to as "Deshyrs"?
As for Kirkwall's Alienage, they seemed to accept Merrill with barely any fuss whatsoever. I guess it's from having Arianni living there for years and getting them used to seeing a Dalish, but then again, during that scene with Marethari going to the Alienage, they seemed to show her quite a bit of reverence. As Merrill comments if she destroys the mirror, her lack of friends in the Alienage had more to do with her keeping herself reclusive, than any kind of ostracising at work.
I think it's meant to vary, since some Denerim elves thought the Dalish were "savages", while some of the Halamshiral elves thought the Dalish could help them. I suppose it's no different than how some Dalish, like Merrill (or potentially Lavellan), treat the Andrastian elves as 'elves', where Merrill says that the Kirkwall elves matter, or Lavellan informs Solas that the Dalish are his people, too.
As for your last line, I've always found that bit of dialogue strange, because Merrill suggests that Sebastian name his bow Philomela, after an elf she knows from the Alienage, while she reassures Nyssa that the Champion is there to help.
Now I think about it, Clan Lavellen do seem to be unusual in how welcoming towards the humans and alienage elves they are. It makes me wonder if perhaps they (and perhaps some other Dalish clans) wish for closer ties to the humans and their city-dwelling kin, but find that human bigotry is the obstacle that keeps them apart? It's interesting that if they join the Council in Wycombe, they have absolutely no problems with the other human members?
Well, the nobles had an issue with Clan Lavellan (since they were the ones who incited the Marcher city-states to attack the elves of Wycome), but the non-noble humans seem to view them as heroes, and it seems like they are the ones who get a seat on the council, along with the Andrastian elves. I guess the incident with red lyrium brought them together, and most likely Inquisitor Lavellan being viewed as the Herald of Andraste (since some humans seem to think the Maker chose an elf because of how some humans have treated elves).
As for your question, I think some other Dalish certainly feel that way. Paivel says that perhaps the Andrastian elves could teach the Dalish to understand the humans so they could leave in peace, Velanna's clan responds positively when they see her in the company of humans, and Merrill ends up taking care of the Andrastian elves who were left homeless in the wake of the Mage-Templar War.
Hahaha our Fen'Harel - what a dog!
And I think I am finally seeing your Mythal/Earth, Elga'nan/Sun references (aha) Do you have your full theory handy for linky?
Let's face it, Solasmancers are the best kind of people for both?
*embarassed cough*
I actually started writing up a post in another window on how I think magic works in Thedas, and how the Sun/Earth fit in terms of their respective contributions to it and their creations, and it just kept going because there was more to explain... and now it scrolls. A lot.
But then I realized the implications of elvish reproduction hit a snag with non-mage elves and Solas and his stupid fade-shadow, which made huge parts of it collapse. If can't figure out how to reconcile it, I might have to scrap the whole blasted thing.
Removing the vallaslin was frightening because when she looks in a mirror she will finally see that she is no longer Dalish. But she felt it was necessary not just to move on, but to gain closure with her feelings of her people as well as the loss of her clan. She no longer saw herself as one of the "noble wanderers". Terrwyn thought Solas would be there to help her come to terms with everything together, as they always did. Instead, she was left with a bare face, and her emotions in turmoil.
I think some independence from Solas will give Terrwyn time to come to terms with what she wants and who she is.
^^This. That's why I removed vallaslin at the end. It is heartbreaking to see her like this, it is a massive statement about everything she went through but also where she's heading, about her relationship with Solas, which was so crucial to her on so many levels. Whenever she felt she was losing so much of her culture, identity, she was gaining so much, unveiling the pieces of the past, re-discovering and re-defining herself.
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