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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#50626
tsunamitigerdragon

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I think its very unlikely that we'll see Fen'Harel actually having been more than just Fen'Harel.

 

The average person is not reading super into lore- at best they are partially familiar with the elven gods. It would become super confusing if they then started throwing on other identities with little lead up to the fact. Elven gods are not the only characters in the story. They do want to keep some wider, narrative cohesion. If it was something they were planning to do, I am certain they would have at least hinted such a thing in the game.

 

At the moment, I can't think of anything to suggest that Fen'Harel is anything but Fen'Harel. Anything beyond that is speculation, and as someone who enjoys speculating, you can bend almost any information to fit a theory. It is fun! But ultimately the easiest answer is usually the correct one. 

 

If the statue in Flemeth's fade world is intended to be of Dirthamen, she wouldn't be stabbing him in the back if he was also Fen'Harel. Solas also has some fairly negative words for Falon'Din. Solas has a lot of guilt, certainly. But it did not seem as though he were speaking of himself when he reminisced about him. 

^^^ THIS. 100% This. The reveal of Solas as Fen'Harel actually was THE SIMPLE ANSWER. Him as an apostate mage, with no vallaslin and thereby someone who some how escaped Alienage life, and rejected the Dalish, surviving on his own, walking through ruins and battlefields, gleaning knowledge no one has ever been able to understand until now, and knowing the mysterious artifact was Elven.. That's the most complex, nonsensical answer possible. Vivian, Dorian, and Cassandra ALL comment on this.

EDIT: Oh, and just "knowing" there's a badass castle in the middle of the mountains with an exceptionally old veil whose name reflects its purpose and has been inhabited by various people over the course of millenia ... Totally the thing an average 40-something apostate studying the Fade would know. I swear I think he just said he was forty  in a moment of desperation so people might believe he was more of an expert. Nothing about his face says 40. It says AGELESS because that's what he is.


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#50627
OxidantsHappen

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I'll get on that gravy train.  ^w^  There's no doubt in my mind that Sera's carrying around Andruil's wiped-clean OGS. 

 

That said, I'm still up in the air about whether Solas knows that and is purposefully trying to reach that part of her.  On the one hand- he must, right?  If anyone understands exactly what's happening with the reincarnation loop and why, it would be him.  On the other, Cole doesn't seem aware- at least, not directly, and he's usually the canary in the coalmine.  

 

I'm going with "he knows, but there's really not much he can do about it" until futher notice.

 

I guess it's this time of night again, so I'm going to go ahead and board the train to theoryville with you.

 

What if old god souls function similar to parasitic organisms? Like, they can't survive without a host and that's why every time they appear in game they're inside something (like inside dragons- corrupting them into archdemons, or inside people- flemmeth/possibly Sera/Solas/Sandal) Now this is just going off of the "what if sera/sandal have god souls inside them".  Like what if when Fen'Harel locked the gods away, it wasn't so much in a place, but in people

 

If the gods existed as people (maybe like how Solas is IF he and Fen'harel are the same thing) then their own body could have functioned as the host, but what if their souls after death / whatever happened to them required living vessels in order to remain viable and not decay?


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#50628
Bluwthe

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Well, when you consider that the Chantry outlawed their religion, Andrastian human lords or lynch mobs chase the clans away when they stay too long in one area, some Andrastians threaten them with violence to convert (as Clan Sabrae experienced), and templars hunt the clans down for their mages, I don't really think that the Dalish can do much when human society is almost entirely against them. The entire reason Clan Lavellan traveled in the Free Marches is because roaming between the territories of the city-states meant that human lords were less inclined to attack them because they didn't want to accidentally provoke a war with one of their neighbors.

 

 

Which is done by some Dalish, and also done by some city elves as well, who see elves who leave the Alienage as 'flat ears' who are giving up everything that makes them elven.

 

 

Clan Lavellan is the same clan who cure the humans of Wycome who are poisoned with red lyrium, and who refuse to leave the city-state because they won't abandon the Andrastian elves to die, even though the clan can leave. I think it's a mistake to think Lavellan couldn't already be tolerant and accept others when that's precisely what Clan Lavellan does.

That makes a strong case for Lavellan to be on Briala's side during Wicked Eyes, Wicked Hearts. The elves are in a state of civil war and want freedom. It would be an injustice to simply allow Celene and Briala to reconcile and the latter receive a title. Titles can be stripped away. In having Briala overshadow Gaspard as the true power, I feel change really would come to the elves of Orlais


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#50629
Gwyvian

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^^^ THIS. 100% This. The reveal of Solas as Fen'Harel actually was THE SIMPLE ANSWER. Him as an apostate mage, with no vallaslin and thereby someone who some how escaped Alienage life, and rejected the Dalish, surviving on his own, walking through ruins and battlefields, gleaning knowledge no one has ever been able to understand until now, and knowing the mysterious artifact was Elven.. That's the most complex, nonsensical answer possible. Vivian, Dorian, and Cassandra ALL comment on this.

 

I also agree with this. All those explanations about his past were mighty complicated, and while I can and do believe that there are cultural overlaps (same god, different name in different culture, just as is true for our own history), having a god in the same pantheon actually be the same as other ones... that either seems like half an answer or no answer at all. If we believe all gods to actually be facets of one god, then this would make sense, but we already know that this is not the case. If it was the case at some point in history, even so then the fracture was so long ago that it no longer matters. So the only alternative is that sometimes simple answers are actually the truth - it doesn't have to be super complicated. However, this is an excellent mask; I mean, it's like math! I always excelled at complicated equations and totally messed up simple ones all the time, because I refused to believe it could be that simple. Until I discovered that, I felt like a fish flopping on the river bank for all the grasp I had of such things.


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#50630
TanithAeyrs

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Oh, I like the idea of parasitic gods.  Hmm.


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#50631
LobselVith8

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That makes a strong case for Lavellan to be on Briala's side during Wicked Eyes, Wicked Hearts. The elves are in a state of civil war and want freedom. It would be an injustice to simply allow Celene and Briala to reconcile and the latter receive a title. Titles can be stripped away. In having Briala overshadow Gaspard as the true power, I feel change really would come to the elves of Orlais

 

I ended up putting Briala in power. As a player, I really couldn't get go of all those people in Halamshiral getting killed, and I thought my Lavellan would feel the same in learning she purged thousands of elves. Gaspard's racist rant at Briala afterward didn't endear him to Revas, and revealing all the evidence that had been gathered against him made it all the sweeter. I was touched by Briala's remark, "The elves of Orlais have a future. For the first time in centuries."

 

And Solas approved. :D Everyone else be damned. It was also nice that in dialogue with Solas afterward, Lavellan referred to the Orlesian elves as 'their' people.


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#50632
Guest_Faerunner_*

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^^^ THIS. 100% This. The reveal of Solas as Fen'Harel actually was THE SIMPLE ANSWER. Him as an apostate mage, with no vallaslin and thereby someone who some how escaped Alienage life, and rejected the Dalish, surviving on his own, walking through ruins and battlefields, gleaning knowledge no one has ever been able to understand until now, and knowing the mysterious artifact was Elven.. That's the most complex, nonsensical answer possible. Vivian, Dorian, and Cassandra ALL comment on this.

EDIT: Oh, and just "knowing" there's a badass castle in the middle of the mountains with an exceptionally old veil whose name reflects its purpose and has been inhabited by various people over the course of millenia ... Totally the thing an average 40-something apostate studying the Fade would know. I swear I think he just said he was forty  in a moment of desperation so people might believe he was more of an expert. Nothing about his face says 40. It says AGELESS because that's what he is.

 

Agreed. In scientific inquiries into the universe, "the simplest answer is usually the correct one."

 

The reveal that Solas was Fen'Harel was a simple, clean, clear answer to all the things you mentioned.

 

I'm honestly a little bewildered by these persistent theories that Sera must be Andruil incarnate or a mage who's magic hasn't properly manifested to explain her randomness/Solas' pestering that she's more than what she appeared, or that Solas must also be Shartan and/or Falon'Din and/or Dirthamen all in one. That just makes things complicated, and I think kind of does all of them a disservice. Why can't there be many characters with extraordinary traits, instead of it being many characters who are all secretly one character with extraordinary traits?


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#50633
Rabbitonfire

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The writers all played the game prior to release. Someone would have definitely noticed if there was such a huge mistake.

 

Perhaps Dirthamen fled as Falon'Din tried to capture him, his territory, his temple? The disciples' notes mention that he suddenly went silent.

I knew I had a reason to hate those owls! Owls everywhere. 


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#50634
HurricaneGinger

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Alright... here we go!

1. We have no evidence or proof that Mythal was human other than three clues: the myth of her origin, the visual used in the Well of Sorrows, and the race of each of the women she has inhabited so far. Mythal comes from across the Ocean - the same way humans came to Thedas. In the myth, this is presented to us as her rising from the ocean as compared to traveling there by ship. But, given Solas' opinions on the nature of Godhood, the chances of Mythal rising from the sea Aphrodite style is highly unlikely. What is likely, however, is that her origin was dramatically oversimplified throughout the ages, the truth turning from myth, to legend, and her.. humanity, if you will, was lost in the process, and she became even more ethereal in her conception.

 

The visual in the Well of Sorrows is fascinating - I don't know why she has human ears, even if it were an overlap. I don't have an answer for that. We could believe Bioware made a mistake using the wrong body model in the scene. I just find that unlikely given the importance of the Well of Sorrows sequence in the narrative. That would have been poured over by the art, animation, and cinematics team for weeks. I believe it was a conscious decision and I don't think Andraste is the answer. Given that Mythal's slaves/ followers/ chosen were Elves, the majority of entities likely drinking from the well and contributing to its collective consciousness was also elves... I find it strange that one woman would overshadow the rest.

 

Last point in this section is that all of the hosts for Mythal to this point have been both human AND female. All of her daughters, in all of her lives beginning with Andraste and beyond, all female. All human. Interesting to note that Morrigan, one of her daughters, breaks that line of only-girls when she has Kieran, a boy, who holds the soul of an OG. It's a break in the pattern and because of that, important.

2. I believe Solas is telling us the truth. If we look at the themes of DA:I a HUGE part of it was the tendency of common people to deify and elevate those they see with power they do not understand. It happens with the Herald/ Inquisitor no matter how hard you deny it with your own mouth. Everyone, literally EVERYONE (with the exception of Solas), is willing to see you as something more until the sequence in the Fade. Even then, people choose to reject the truth. When analyzing myths and tales of origin within religious narratives, more often than not, they were constructed by the people to explain things they couldn't understand. A person walking physically through the fade? A woman guiding her to safety? Gotta be the spirit of Andraste. This person was sent here to save us! The inquisitor is an elf... welllll... I suppose that shows how far the Herald has risen! YEAH, racism being used to explain how divine you are!

I don't know what Solas' plans are. All we know is that he wishes to rectify a mistake of his past, a mistake so scarring to who he is as an individual, he cannot abandon his efforts to fix it. Cole's party banter with Solas post-break up where he's trying to help Lavellan's and Solas' emotional pain tells us the following: 1) Back when things sang the same, Solas felt an emotional pain - either due to the situation of the elves at that time or due to his actions at the time. 2) Clearly something about the Inquisitor, by being real*, could change everything (even Solas admits this in the Haven scene - he feels the whole world change). 3) "They sleep, masked in a mirror, hiding, hurting, and to wake them... (Gasps.) Where did it go?" - those who are sealed behind the Eluvians are in uthenera. They're clearly hiding from something they wish to escape, but in doing so they're experiencing pain. The only way to solve THAT pain, which Solas is quick to tell Cole he can't fix, is to awaken them with some sort of MacGuffin we don't have enough information to name or place.

Another Cole-Solas banter hints that Solas envies Cole because Cole can be happy because he can forget people and events and move on without changing his nature. Cole offers Solas two ways to heal the pain of his memory: 1) Remember them. In remembering them, cherishing them as they remain in his memory. 2) Let them go. This could mean "forgetting" them, but I think it has more to do with moving on. Accepting that they once were, but time requires that his mind move down different paths. It's clear that Solas appreciates these offers of help, but refuses to take either path. He remembers them both as they were and as they now are - at one point great, and now in pain. He can't let them go because of his sense of responsibility for the situation, so he can't move on. These are emotional choices Solas himself has made and rejects Cole's solutions. Cole reminds Solas that he souldn't feel guilty because it wasn't about Solas being right or exerting dominance over them, it was about saving them, which was right.

So TL;DR Solas is consumed by guilt at whatever action he did because he is unwilling to relinquish the memories he has of those he sealed, even though the course of action he took was right and it did save them. Knowing what we know about Solas about free will, maybe he feels guilty about what he did because it robbed them of their choice - even if it was self-destruction. Yes, I think he feels shitty about how things went down for the elves as time progressed - I'm sure he had hoped they would have escaped slavery, ignorance, poverty, and servitude. He knows he can't rewind time (dear god please don't let there be anymore time magic in DA.. it's such a mess and never satisfying), but perhaps by bringing these Gods back, the People can regain what was lost. If these Gods self-destruct, it's by their own choice, the very thing Solas feels he robbed from them.

While Solas idolizes a time when the Fade and the Physical World were one, I am unsure if he actually lived it or has only experienced it via memory in the Fade. We have no way of knowing until more information is given. I just question if that's his actual goal because his conversations with Cole seem to point at something else. The rejoining of the Fade to the Real World, however, might be the fall out of whatever it is he is planning to do, just not the end goal in and of itself.
 

I'll continue the rest in another post or else this will be a terrifying wall of text no one will ever read!

EDIT: *REAL: What does that word even MEAN!? Sometimes I feel that "real" means spiritual to Cole because when he talks to a mage Lavellan he mentions her pulling stuff from the fade and in the process making the physical world more "real", but at others I feel like "real" refers to those that are both spiritual and physical - like himself, Solas, Cassandra, and the Inquisitor. They all (by their nature as spirit-human hybrids or power) exist in some way in both places.

 

Out of likes so QUOTE. 

 

"Real" is said a lot about the Inquisitor, it's thought-provoking and almost unsettling. How are they real? Are they whole now, thanks to their deeper connection to the Fade? They can open and close it at whim - that is powerful. The Fade runs through their veins. 

 

I can totally relate to the agonies of letting go of something as precious as the last living remnants of your entire people (as she saw it). The bitterness for my Lavellan was the result of really, really wanting to continue to believe that what her people were doing was right and good at the heart of it, but she could not continue to deny that they basically got everything wrong. Abelas was the second to last nail in the coffin (I've seen this sentiment elsewhere), the fact that an actual ancient elf would consider her a shem and then Solas, as we know.

 

Interesting thought: I've mentioned the wisdom/pride spirit thing that clings to Solas, his fascination, possibly part of his being (or wholly his being), his constant references to it, his mental control in the Fade that keeps demons from being demons around him; all of this points to what is quintessentially Solas, a seeker of wisdom and a victim of his own pride (possibly), but either way ultimately he is pitted against the arrogance he sees in modern elves. It is that quality in him, of moving on the wisdom-pride axis, that enables him to recognize his own bias and let it go if you call him out on it. So, considering a person he deeply cares for, his gift is that of wisdom (and more importantly: humility) in the face of false pride. Should Lavellan continue to be prideful in ignorance? Whether it's an innocent pride that gives her strength or an overbearing arrogance, the point is, while removing the vallaslin is a symbol of action, it is the knowledge of what it truly is that is the gift itself. Note that (if I know correctly) Solas does not disapprove of your choice to keep it if you do decide that. It is up to Lavellan to carry the burden of this knowledge or not.

Therefore, this entire question becomes less about Lavellan's ties to the Dalish and more about how she chooses to conduct herself as a Dalish - or more importantly as an elf - after gaining this sliver of knowledge. I understand this clinging that I saw expressed in my Lavellan's inability to face these difficult junctures without tears inside, and her constant attempt to defend what she is and where she came from, to the elves of the Dalish clans the ancient times are idolized, revered and respected. It's like finding out your best friend used to drown kittens. (Blackwall, anyone?) To my Lavellan being Dalish was never a shackle, but something very fragile and wondrous - she never realizes how much strength she draws from her people's legacy, from her heritage, the roots that distinguish her from others until all of that is blown away by evidence after evidence to the contrary. Solas' reveal about the vallaslin hurt the most because it signifies the whole, painful truth that she would never want to face about her people - it's the utter deconstruction of the ego, her heart is finally sliced open and at that point I think she would accept anything Solas would want from her if only to fill that gaping hole where her bond to her pillars of strength used to be.

 

I think I'm repeating myself now. Well, it IS a very emotional scene that had a huge impact so...

 

 

It was hard for me to let Morrigan drink. I wanted to drink because I thought, it's Lavellan's heritage, and to be bound to one of her own gods is no price at all, it is an opportunity to rekindle something that was lost. I agree with the sentiment that it was Abelas' and his companions' hoarding actions that basically allowed the cultural entropy to happen that he so scornfully comments on in the first place, and I wonder at what reaction she would have had after the vallaslin reveal following that. However, I was held back by the info that Solas doesn't approve - in hindsight, it would be kind of awkward to be the lover of one god and a slave to another (who's relationship to your lover is ambiguous at best). As a rogue, I could reject it simply for the argument that Morrigan is a mage and can utilize that knowledge better than my Lavellan ever could, this is true. However, her dismissive attitude makes that decision hard just on those grounds alone; as I said above, my Lavellan was trying to desperately cling to the virtues of her people.

 

Still, it was kind of priceless to see Morrigan discover Mythal's true nature, and in her mother no less. That eased my mind.

 

Terrwyn so badly wanted to learn more about the past and not just the stories told now. She craves that knowledge because the truth is better than romanticizing her people's flaws. She knows they're flawed, and hates that the clans wander so far away from each other. One clan may know more than the other, and may not even share everything they found! Terrwyn would study, ask questions, compare books from other clans and point out mistranslations, and try so hard to expand on the idea that maybe this isn't the truth and they should find it. Other clans would feel threatened, accuse her of being a traitor to their kind, and finally the Keeper told her to stop trying to find answers and to accept what the people have. 

 

That was a crushing blow for her. If her people wanted to find their lost history, why do they deny it, and even refuse to understand? So she threw herself into her Keeper training, forced blinders onto her eyes to only see her people and their way of life. She tried to find solace in their traditions but only felt emptiness; the only one that made her feel at peace was receiving her vallaslin of Mythal - it was painful, and it said to everyone that she was going to be their protector. 

 

So joining the Inquisition, and hearing Mineave's and Solas' experiences with her people was a huge wake-up call. Then with everything she's learned from her travels and talking with Solas, Terrwyn does not know what to believe anymore. After the Temple of Mythal, She resolves herself to rebuild. If she cannot change her people from within, then perhaps she can start on the outside. 

 

*sighs* My poor girl. She's so strong, and keeps trying. T_T



#50635
OxidantsHappen

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Agreed. In scientific inquiries into the universe, "the simplest answer is usually the correct one."

 

The reveal that Solas was Fen'Harel was a simple, clean, clear answer to all the things you mentioned.

 

I'm honestly a little bewildered by these persistent theories that Sera must be Andruil incarnate or a mage who's magic hasn't properly manifested to explain her randomness/Solas' pestering that she's more than what she appeared, or that Solas must also be Shartan and/or Falon'Din and/or Dirthamen all in one. That just makes things complicated, and I think kind of does all of them a disservice. Why can't there be many characters with extraordinary traits, instead of it being many characters who are all secretly one character with extraordinary traits?

 

It's mainly because the game left us with so many questions, and there are so many areas in the lore that are so ambiguous.  It's about drawing parallels between different snippets and hints of lore found in game. It's not necessarily about being correct on all accounts, but more trying to find answers where there are none.  And it's fun! Besides, everyone said people were crazy when the idea of the Dread Wolf as Solas was introduced


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#50636
Janic99

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I was talking about an orchestra music, that plays just before The Elder One Theme kicks in. Gah. Hard to explain. It's playing while you run from The Chantry to trebuchet.



which one? 



any of these? I am not sure but.. well 



#50637
tsunamitigerdragon

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#50638
Sister Squish

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Post of quotes/replies/thoughtsquirts #2:

What if Solas really was an apostate dreamer mage, and Fen'Harel took over his body?

 

And when the Fear Demon said "your pride is dead", he really meant "solas is dead"?

 

Yeah I think I see this. We've covered it before, but Solas is way invested in the nature of Cole's existence - trying to convince him not to go "full human"... moreso than if he simply "preferred the company of spirits". During the scene where Cole explains how he came across "to the other side" and possessed a body, Solas is staring, silently at him - possibly knowing how that feels?  It is... arguable whether Fen'Harel/Solas share a body a la Anders/Justice, (Edit: Or whether Solas carries a soul fragment) or whether Fen'Harel shares that experience with Cole. And like Cole, it doesn't necessarily mean that Fen'Harel did the killing of anyone to get into that body. 

When I talk about Fen'Harel's history, I am referring to Fen'Harel, not Solas. And... regardless of who it is, our Lavellans meet/love him as he is, right? 

 

I think its very unlikely that we'll see Fen'Harel actually having been more than just Fen'Harel.

 

The average person is not reading super into lore- at best they are partially familiar with the elven gods. It would become super confusing if they then started throwing on other identities with little lead up to the fact. Elven gods are not the only characters in the story. They do want to keep some wider, narrative cohesion. If it was something they were planning to do, I am certain they would have at least hinted such a thing in the game.

 

At the moment, I can't think of anything to suggest that Fen'Harel is anything but Fen'Harel. Anything beyond that is speculation, and as someone who enjoys speculating, you can bend almost any information to fit a theory. It is fun! But ultimately the easiest answer is usually the correct one. 

 

If the statue in Flemeth's fade world is intended to be of Dirthamen, she wouldn't be stabbing him in the back if he was also Fen'Harel. Solas also has some fairly negative words for Falon'Din. Solas has a lot of guilt, certainly. But it did not seem as though he were speaking of himself when he reminisced about him. 

 

You're probably right. I've been enamored with Falon'Din/Dirthamen for a while - the image of a being with one foot in the fade(/void?) one foot in the real world is alluringly provocative to me! Also (as I think @lizasaurus has already suggested?) the ominously inevitable dual-dragon boss will be awesome! 

It bugs me, though, that Falon'Din is individually known for his ability to guide spirits through the fade, when the other "gods" also had this ability... including Fen'Harel. Although I suppose this is further evidence for the "void" beyond the fade, if that is the destination Falon'Din is guiding them to.. 

 

Interesting...

It kind of reminds me of the Dark Souls lore for some reason. There was a king and a queen that came from a land beyond the see. There were experiments performed , there are souls involved, and they are transferred. Dragons ruled the skies before men came , dragons exist out of time and fate. And there is also the Abyss or Void. No undead curse , but there could be parallels between the curse and the taint ...maybe , probably?
I can't help but make
Perhaps Falon'Din's soul was split so that he doesn't hold all the secrets. Maybe I'm being too literal , but the twin souls thing could be interpreted as a splitting of souls , 2 beings sharing 1 soul. Although this part of the lore confuses me. What is difference between a soul and a spirit? They don't seem to use the word "soul" all that often. There is much bigger emphasis on blood, which I interpret as some kind of force, like The Force in the Star Wars universe. Mages could tap into this force and it's quite powerful , altogether bypassing using lyrium and the Fade as a source of power.
Back to my Dark Souls parallels. Dragons exist outside of time and fate. They are a gray area between life and death, black and white, fire and darkness (that's in the DS lore). Flemeth used Yavanna to wake up the Great Dragon , King Vendrick used his brother to make a false dragon so he could deny fate.
<snip>

 

 Now I feel bad for not having played Dark Souls! It sounds like it could be helpful! 

I'm having a terrible train of thought, where Falon'Din is actually a technologically advanced being sitting in a space station orbiting the planet. "The Void" is a reference to space. "Dirthamen" is his holographic projection-self he uses in order to communicate with people on the planet. "Spirits" are virtual clones of people's minds - stored in a virtual web "the fade". 

Ahaha help me I need to break from this 


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#50639
phaonica

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All this talk about elves and riding wolves. Did any of you happen to read ElfQuest in it's heyday?


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#50640
panamakira

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1. Holy crap I missed the 2000 page. Congrats thread! Yey!

2. In regards to theories and speculations, as much fun as I have reading them, I will say that during ME3 there was this whole complicated thing about the Indoctrination theory as you all well remember, with tons of videos and fan input that it never turned out to be anything. At least not something we ever got a confirmation about even at the end of the trilogy. 

 

I'm a cautious fan because of that so I tend to believe that even though Dragon Age lore can get complicated mostly because we are missing a lot of information, I want to rely only on the information we currently have been shown in game or through codexes to a degree. I don't want to assume other things about Solas when I don't feel we have enough information yet.

 

However that doesn't mean it's not fun to speculate. I love how you guys' brain works sometimes. I don't have the patience to read all codexes. I have above average lore knowledge in comparison to the average gamer but there are experts around here, which is why I love coming to the BSN.

 

 

 

tumblr_nhvhf7hDeg1qdeyv0o1_1280.jpg

 

(source)


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#50641
Lady Luminous

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Question, how angry will Solas be with me (romanced, but not locked in yet, danced at Halamshiral) if I turn Cole human?

 

Cole just really freaks me out as a full spirit. But I don't want to lose Solas. :(



#50642
Rabbitonfire

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Post of quotes/replies/thoughtsquirts #2:
 

 

Yeah I think I see this. We've covered it before, but Solas is way invested in the nature of Cole's existence - trying to convince him not to go "full human"... moreso than if he simply "preferred the company of spirits". During the scene where Cole explains how he came across "to the other side" and possessed a body, Solas is staring, silently at him - possibly knowing how that feels?  It is... arguable whether Fen'Harel/Solas share a body a la Anders/Justice, or whether Fen'Harel shares that experience with Cole. And like Cole, it doesn't necessarily mean that Fen'Harel did the killing of anyone to get into that body. 

When I talk about Fen'Harel's history, I am referring to Fen'Harel, not Solas. And... regardless of who it is, our Lavellans meet/love him as he is, right? 

I remember Weekes answering about whether Solas is possessed or not. but I don't know how to browse tweets.



#50643
vierrae

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which one? 



any of these? I am not sure but.. well 

Neither  :( Seems it's really isn't in the soundtrack...



#50644
Rabbitonfire

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Question, how angry will Solas be with me (romanced, but not locked in yet, danced at Halamshiral) if I turn Cole human?

 

Cole just really freaks me out as a full spirit. But I don't want to lose Solas. :(

Not much. He'll be disappointed and say Cole now walks a difficult path or something.



#50645
Gwyvian

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Also, Solas as Dirthamen is an impossibility: He is the worst liar in the history of Thedas. Seriously, Arl Howe was a better liar than Solas. And that's saying something!

1) Solas speaks and translates ancient elven left and right, but refrains from doing so... sometimes. Because he remembers he's supposed to be an apostate mage and his real face is showing.
2) Solas tried to approach the Dalish and restore them to a true understanding of their past i.e. telling them large portions of the truth but was called a Fool, a Madman and a Liar for... telling the truth. 

3) Solas flat out reveals the origin of the orb as Elven. Heck, even before the orb is revealed he's like hey, there was totally a MacGuffin artifact that caused the explosion. We should find it. Cause clearly it wasn't in pieces after the explosion.
4) Solas challenges Morrigan on her assertions about ancient Elven culture and religion multiple times. If he really wanted to hide his nature, why even bother arguing?
5) Solas during and directly after Halamshiral. I literally have nothing else to say because this speaks for itself. Why else do you get a SOLAS SLIGHTLY DISAPPROVES when you catch him in this conversation?
6) Solas frequently spews information about the past simply because... you ask. Seriously, you can be like, "Hey Solas - what were the Gods like in the past?" "Not Gods unless you extend the definition to the point of absurdity. They were just really powerful mages, bra."
7) The break up scene. Why did it happen? Because he was going to tell you the truth because he wanted you to know.

Solas is all about knowledge, all about people knowing the truth and with that truth being able to forge their way forward into the world with certainty and wisdom. He's not about obscuring the truth for the sake of secrets and mystery. He's about cutting it wide open because "Wisdom [is] its own reward" and free will.

He just isn't revealing himself to you because of his knowledge and awareness that Fen'Harel is the Dalish Boogeyman. Likewise, he warns the Inquisitor that because the orb is Elven they must be beyond suspicion. He's practically inviting her into a truth party so they can protect the Elves from how the rest of the world sees them. If he had been, "Hey guys, I'm an ancient elf who has been asleep for 1,000 years. But never fear! I gave my super powerful Elven foci to the Big Bad and now the world is splitting at the seams. Want to let me join your party?" - how would that not erupted into the mass murdering of elves for being the reason the world is ending?

 

I second all of this. I mentioned the language, but I caught that little oddity that Solas slightly disapproves after I dig for information right after Halamshiral. I agree with the tactics, too, in retrospect he really is a terrible liar - and it's kind of sneakily obvious that the devs didn't really give you a lot of leeway to dig deeper into these inconsistencies. I was waiting for a big moment of truth when I can mention these discrepancies, which never came of course, but the heartbreak might have been part of the cover-up in an unintentionally beneficial way from Solas' point of view. Considering his feelings, he wouldn't intentionally use this method to stop Lavellan from being too inquisitive (hahahaha, see what I did there), but at the same time it's "an added side benefit"... ok, I need to stop the puns.

 

I just agree, simply put.


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#50646
slmisfit

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I remember Weekes answering about whether Solas is possessed or not. but I don't know how to browse tweets.

He dodged the crap outta that question in the podcast interview a little while ago, though. Are you positive he revealed it on twitter?


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#50647
Gwyvian

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*gasp* Do I remember correctly that there was supposed to be some return of Anders/Justice (i.e. primarily Justice) in DAI?

 

Possible connection there...? Spirit of Justice......??

 

No, no, just scratch that. It couldn't be.



#50648
Sable Rhapsody

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*gasp* Do I remember correctly that there was supposed to be some return of Anders/Justice (i.e. primarily Justice) in DAI?

 

Possible connection there...? Spirit of Justice......??

 

No, no, just scratch that. It couldn't be.

 

There wasn't supposed to be some return.  I believe one of the writers answered a question about whether Anders got plot armor (since you could choose to kill him in DA2).  The answer was that if you knife Anders, Anders is dead.  If you spare him, he's alive.  Justice is another story.

 

TBH I'm kind of glad that Anders/Justice wasn't kicking around in DA:I.  That theme of fanaticism and what extremes you'll take for an idea was more DA2's story than DA:I's, since DA:I resolves the mage-templar war quickly by necessity.



#50649
BubbleDncr

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Neither  :( Seems it's really isn't in the soundtrack...

 

I think I know the music you're talking about, ad its my favorite music in the whole game, but I haven't found it anywhere. 


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#50650
Guest_Faerunner_*

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Question, how angry will Solas be with me (romanced, but not locked in yet, danced at Halamshiral) if I turn Cole human?

 

Cole just really freaks me out as a full spirit. But I don't want to lose Solas. :(

 

He doesn't disapprove that strongly. He gets kinda huffy and crosses his arms, but he'll concede there's not much harm done and let it go.

 

For what it's worth, I spared the Wardens, which Solas disapproved of far more, and that didn't hurt my standing with him that much either. In fact, I spared the Wardens, prevented him from killing the mages that hurt his friend, and made Cole more human (hypocritical, I know), but I managed to make up those approval points in enough conversations, quest decisions, and elven artifact activations elsewhere that all of them combined did nothing to hurt my standing as his One True Love.

 

EDIT: Also, don't be afraid to stand up to or disagree with your beloved! Couples don't have to agree on everything to be happy and healthy in love! (Heck, come to think of it, I earned disapproval in a lot of quests and conversations. Usually minor "Solas slightly disapproves" when discussing the Dalish or something, but I managed to make it up elsewhere.)


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