153434 réponses à ce sujet

[Wanderer]

Mythal->Dumat->Andraste->Flemeth

 

You know, I wondered, why Flemeth says something like this: http://youtu.be/O9EBcOUhgbA?t=5m17s

 

I don't know the lore well, but maybe it's because she was Dumat or something and speaked with Cory in ancient times.

[Willow_Elessidil]

WELL

 

I JUST FINISHED MY FIRST PLAYTHROUGH OF DA:I ROMANCING SOLAS

 

someone please hold me until I stop crying

 

I'm just alternating between "I WILL NEVER BE OKAY AGAIN" and "wow this has fascinating implications for the lore and history of this world!!!" and I can't seem to stop

 

Feel free to join our chat of sad Lavellans, link is in my siggy.  We can try and bring some laughs through the tears.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Next one is from the main chamber in the Temple of Dirthamen. First time through, I didn't realize the giant pillars were actually statues of Mythal... with the heads missing. Slightly creepy.

Spoiler

 

If I recall correctly, all the statues in the Temple of Mythal were also missing their heads.  This statue seems IMO to be a visual reference to the Winged Victory of Samothrace, a very iconic Hellinistic statue.  It's basically the Winged Victory, but with dragon wings instead of feathered ones.  Pic for comparison:

 

[HurricaneGinger]

You know, I'm not entirely sure why I dislike Blackwall and yet with Solas I'm perfectly fine. They both lie about who they are, what they've done, what they are doing...and yet I dislike Blackwall and I'm only extremely frustrated with Solas. Blackwall was always meh to me, and romancing him is "I don't deserve you" this and "you deserve better" that. And Solas does say your relationship with him could lead to trouble, and it would be kinder to not start it. I just...I don't know. 

 

Maybe I just don't feel much depth to Blackwall's romance as I do with Solas'. Idk I'm confused. 

 

 

WELL

 

I JUST FINISHED MY FIRST PLAYTHROUGH OF DA:I ROMANCING SOLAS

 

someone please hold me until I stop crying

 

I'm just alternating between "I WILL NEVER BE OKAY AGAIN" and "wow this has fascinating implications for the lore and history of this world!!!" and I can't seem to stop

 

[Missy_MI]

I JUST FINISHED MY FIRST PLAYTHROUGH OF DA:I ROMANCING SOLAS

 

someone please hold me until I stop crying

*hugs* You've come to the right place and you are not alone! I've pretty much been living here since my first playthrough.

 

Also, I have no idea what your thoughts or inclination toward fan fiction is, but I highly recommend this one: http://archiveofouro...hapters/6188690. It helps a little (at least for me). I've never read fan fiction before seeing the links in this thread and some of them have turned out to be surprisingly good.

[Jadestone]

Welcome to the thread, and don't be down. Here are your cookies. 

 

 

welcome, fellow recovering solasmancer

it never stops hurting

im sitting here at almost 3 am thinking about how horrifically sad the whole thing is

 

 

Aww hugs.. 

 

We've all been there

 

Have a solas

 

 

 

Feel free to join our chat of sad Lavellans, link is in my siggy.  We can try and bring some laughs through the tears.

 

Thank you friends!! And what an adorable Solas art, guess he gave up on the tea after all.

WHEW has it been an emotional night! Glad to find I'm in good company. My dragon-age-playing friend went to bed 3 hours ago so I've just been sitting around yelling by myself since then, so I might just join that chat!

 

 

Editing in more replies since I last looked to avoid doublepost:

 

 

 

 

 

thank you ;_;

 

*hugs* You've come to the right place and you are not alone! I've pretty much been living here since my first playthrough. 

 

Also, I have no idea what your thoughts or inclination toward fan fiction is, but I highly recommend this one: http://archiveofouro...hapters/6188690. It helps a little (at least for me). I've never read fan fiction before seeing the links in this thread and some of them have turned out to be surprisingly good.

 

 

Ooh, thanks for the rec!! I very rarely read fanfics, but I might need it in this case! I was just SO convinced he wasn't really gone, we'd get one last scene together... he SAID he would explain things after it was over but he did not :|

[madrar]

True. I remember a lot of us were upset about him even being Fen'Harel. Most of us have been around the video game block, I imagine. We know what tends to happen to important, super powerful, morally grey characters and it's usually more than a little negative. 

 

Now I feel like there's a sense that Solas being even more than the Dread Wolf is narrative overkill. I assumed that's why so many didn't like the idea of him being Shartan as well. Dive into too many purposes and roles and complexity and it's harder for the character to stand on his own merit. You get distracted by everything else and the Dread Wolf, elf god lore was already vast enough. In my opinion, less is more when it comes to narratives like that which are already so larger than life and dramatic. Getting bogged down with too many twists and reveals and Surprise! Connected lore! can be tiring. So if Solas is just "plain old" Fen'Harel who was wildly misinterpreted over time and made a big mistake, that's preferable to me.

 

At the same time, I find all of these theories awesome to read about! By no means should any of you ever stop because you very well could be right on the money or at least close by. I'm fascinated to see what little and yet very suggestive things can be pulled out of lore that most skim over. Keep on keeping on, you crazy theorists!

 

Mmm.  Bioware LIs should come with warning labels.  

 

 

CAUTION:  May cause severe emotional distress

 

CAUTION:  May require massive theorycrafting to understand

 

CAUTION: May turn out to be the fourth most important character in the entire damned game universe

 

 

By the time we figure out how the guy should have been labelled, it's way too late to back out.  =w=

[Siha]

You know, I'm not entirely sure why I dislike Blackwall and yet with Solas I'm perfectly fine. They both lie about who they are, what they've done, what they are doing...and yet I dislike Blackwall and I'm only extremely frustrated with Solas. Blackwall was always meh to me, and romancing him is "I don't deserve you" this and "you deserve better" that. And Solas does say your relationship with him could lead to trouble, and it would be kinder to not start it. I just...I don't know.

I agree, sort of. I actually started out kind of liking Blackwall and kind of being annoyed of Solas in my first playthrough. But I did not pursue the Blackwall romance then. In my second playthrough I started a Blackwall romance and broke it off after finding his badge. Hard to put in words, but he was just annoying. Like he was trying too hard to be dark and fatalistic and mysterious and... especially manly. Whatever. I particularly dislike the conversation in the tavern about the dog. He looks at you and speaks to you as if you were too dumb to understand. Like he had to teach you something important about life that you would not learn otherwise. Ah, I fail to explain.

 

Anyway, Solas grew on me in the course of my playthroughs. I actually find it hard to alienate him. I had a human noble playthrough, where I allied with the Templars, let the Wardens join, abandoned the rituals in the temple and drank from the well. Still, I got the same friendship ending that I had gotten with my mage lavellan, who had done anything she could to please Solas (apart from romancing him to the end). I would really like to see him get really mad at me, but I am doing something wrong.

[CapricornSun]

 

You know, I'm not entirely sure why I dislike Blackwall and yet with Solas I'm perfectly fine. They both lie about who they are, what they've done, what they are doing...and yet I dislike Blackwall and I'm only extremely frustrated with Solas. Blackwall was always meh to me, and romancing him is "I don't deserve you" this and "you deserve better" that. And Solas does say your relationship with him could lead to trouble, and it would be kinder to not start it. I just...I don't know. 

 

Maybe I just don't feel much depth to Blackwall's romance as I do with Solas'. Idk I'm confused. 

 

 

I always saw Blackwall's story as a kind of smaller scale version of Solas', with various differences of course. I do like Blackwall though. I found him to be an interesting character (he and Cass were my tanks and I interchange them from time to time), and I love his banters but I understand why that he's not everyone's cup of tea.

 

As for the romance, I saw how the romance went when I was staying over at my sister's place (she romanced Blackwall) and I must admit, I actually got a bit heartbroken. Not the same type of heartbreak like the Solas romance of course (Solas's romance destroyed me *cries*) but it did make me feel things.

 

Maybe I'm just a softie in general... 

[Kittn]

All this talk about elves and riding wolves. Did any of you happen to read ElfQuest in it's heyday?

 

Unexpected to see someone mention EQ here! I was planning my mage Lavellan for next playthrough to be a Shenshen look alike. At least as much as I can manage with our unfortunate hair selection. She's always been one of my favorite characters.

 

Gotta gush a little. Because nostalgia. I remember waiting forever for our county library system to cycle the copies of the large EQ graphic novels they had around to my local branch because my parents were too broke to buy them for me. The books were falling apart and bent and battered, but there was nothing like arriving at the library and seeing that logo on the reserved shelf with my name on it. I had discovered the series when I was like, seven years old and I found my cousin's stash of comics. He had a handful of the Marvel issued original quest tucked in there. I've been a fan ever since.

 

I'm following the progress of the Final Quest right now. Got the first one, but I haven't read it yet. I want a good pile of them to be released and in my hands before I start so I can marathon through them. Can't read just one.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[mythlover20]

Omg I just found this absolutely gorgeous Solavellan artwork on da and I just had to share. It makes my dancer's heart so happy (apart from Solas' footwork... he really should have taken a refresher course before the ball but then I'm just nitpicking and OMG It's so beautiful!)

 

Link to page: http://da-inquisitio...hiral-501955283

Welcome to the thread, Jadestone. I see you have the cookies, so please, here, have some mead. *passes a tankard of mead*

Now, I *did* romance Blackwall, and I think he has some very beautiful moments. Yes he is all "I don't deserve you" and "you deserve better" but... he is in love with you. He is battling his heart and his morals and he just falls. But when he holds you and kisses you - especially in that repeatable kiss scene - it's like... he looks at you like he can't believe you've chosen him, that you've given your heart to him, especially after you find out who he is. He is so... gentle with you, in a way that none of the others are. I think his romance is beautiful. I love Solas' more, but Blackwall's is just as sweet, in its own way.

[Gwyvian]

Sweet Holy Mother of the Maker is this going to take a long time to analyze! BUT I GOT THIS. 

 

1. My only answer to this is that we have no way of knowing at this current juncture. I think there is plenty of evidence on both sides of the argument and Mythal as a human as equal weight as Mythal as elvhen. What I postulated was based on three clues I see, but they by no means have to be what anyone else does. I did raise that question - if human contact truly was the cause of the quickening, wouldn't Mythal have brought it with her? While human contact does seem to correlate with the quickening of the Elvhen people, correlation isn't always causality and we are likely being kept from seeing all the cards at this point.

Could Andraste have been an elf? I am unsure. We do know that her mother was a slave, but I believe she is associated with an enslaved human tribe. If we are to believe that Mythal->Dumat->Andraste->Flemeth, then the father of Andraste must have been a Gray Warden who completed the Dark Ritual with her mother. How they obtained knowledge of the Dark Ritual? I HAVE NO CLUE. There is also the possibility of her being half-elven and thereby "human" in all appearances.

More than what I've already written in both this post and my last? I can't offer any opinion on. We're limited by the visual and written information given to us by the story and codex entries. I simply do not know and I feel uncomfortable voicing any opinion beyond what I've said.  I think you've got some good ideas, some great counter arguments, I just have nothing to refute them with because there's no "proof" in any one direction or a clue on where we should go digging for information next.

 

Yes. Sorry about that.  I kind of tend to ramble when I get excited about an idea. 

 

1. You know, I really like this idea that Andraste could have been a half-elf. We see from Alistair's example that the difference between humans and half-elves is virtually indistinguishable, so it could also come down to a matter of bloodlines: the elven bloodline that Mythal would prefer, for instance, mixed with human blood at some point (Andraste, presumably) and then it all suddenly makes sense to me! I like the dark ritual thought, too - where did Morrigan learn it from? And she did say it was ancient. It makes sense.

 

As to the quickening - I rather liked the idea of Elvhen not being able to enter Utherena posited earlier. But not knowing enough of it in general, who can say? I think this is a rather sticky question; it's possible, if we're to believe Abelas, that basically Elvhen themselves destroyed their immortality through the warring he mentions... and by association, the humans could have been blamed. Food for thought at least.

 

All in all, I agree that at this point all we can do is speculate. We don't have enough solid evidence. Yet. Come on, DLC!

 

 

 

2. Solas and his godhood. I... really can't say more on this than I already have. We have no choice but to take Solas on his word because the tales that refute it are the very ones that make him out to be a trickster laughing maniacally  in some long lost corner of the Fade with glee. All I believe is possible is what I said earlier today - the members of the Elvhen pantheon were nothing more than very powerful mages who shared a power source that likely is tied to blood in some way - the way that most incredibly binding, powerful magic in Thedas revolves around blood. Beyond that? I can't say. I really can't.

 

2. I can believe that tapping into the powers of Thedas created a bond between certain Elvhen and primordial powers that basically introduced the age of their godhood - but in general I'm not sure where I stand on this. A side of me wants to use empirical evidence and craft plausible explanations, but then another side of me wonders... is it so much of a leap to consider them truly as gods? Self-made or not, maybe once they were not, yet what is being a god anyway? I agree, though, we only have Solas' word to go on at this point. And I'm not encouraged by what I see, my vision of what Elvhen were like in their time is taking some interesting twists and turns of late, so I shan't say more on the subject either at this point.

 

 

 

I suppose you could see his facial expression as villanous - but I see it more as a look of determination. The Dev Notes seem to specify that he takes no joy in killing Flemeth, he just knows its the only course of action available to him at present to accomplish his goals - whatever those goals might be. We also know that Flemeth passes her godhood (aka Mythal) onto Morrigan through the eluvian just as he arrives. What she gives him/ what he takes is power, not her godhood or her soul.

It's clear that the Elven Gods aren't dead - but something about their O.G. Dragon forms is hurting them and likely the world. I posted my theory and questions on what might be going on with that here and here. 

That's all I got! Pockets out and empty! Until DLC arrives and more codex entries become available...

 

It's not exactly a villainous expression I meant - it's just... not the reaction I would have expected if he felt so terrible about taking Flemeth's life. He wasn't grinning with glee, and he was crying on her shoulder a minute ago - and it seemed to me that Flemeth willingly passed on something to Fen'Harel; in fact, I could interpret it as Flemeth deliberately doing something that he didn't necessarily expect, yet accepts in the wake of the moment. But what's important is that he's got the power now, what's he going to do with it...?

 

Oh, and if Lavellan was the one to drink of the Well, would she get Mythal...? I wonder... the devs did give us a choice, so it has to be through some different connection between Morrigan and Flemeth, not the Well, yet it's plausible that is what ultimately enabled this to happen. Hmmm. So if the Inquisitor gains the Well, then either Mythal is truly consumed, or Mythal is passed on... ok, no, I will stop. No more rants on my part. 

 

I like your ideas regarding the Old Gods, they're going in a good direction - I haven't had too many insights into this whole question of what's hurting them, so I won't say more on it at this point.

[flabbadence]

Still catching up with the thread (just reached pg. 1999. why did i think it was a good idea to leave this thread alone for two days again?)
 
Anyway, from the 30 pages I still haven't read (you can do it self!), I don't know if this was already brought up, but here's a damper on the theories that Solas was Shartan or that Mythal was human or even that humans were once elves:

 

 

For those who can't watch it, what's in this video is what I'm assuming is the max disapproval conversation between a human Inquisitor and Solas, and near the end Solas says,

 

"I should thank you, Inquisitor. I had spent time with few of your people before this. From the stories, I thought you all thuggish, simple, and crude. Now? Now I know I was right. You have no idea what a comfort that is."

 

So, it looks like Solas has hardly had any interaction with humans before, and what he knows about them comes mostly from stories, maybe even from during Arlathan days when humans were still an unknown element in the fringes of elven society.

[Cheese of Borg]

WELL

 

I JUST FINISHED MY FIRST PLAYTHROUGH OF DA:I ROMANCING SOLAS

 

someone please hold me until I stop crying

 

I'm just alternating between "I WILL NEVER BE OKAY AGAIN" and "wow this has fascinating implications for the lore and history of this world!!!" and I can't seem to stop

Welcome to the Thread.  You will now turn in your badge and your controller/mouse/keyboard until you are once again fit for duty.

[Gwyvian]

Nobody expects... THE CATQUISITION! 

 

This is just brilliant. 

 

Still catching up with the thread (just reached pg. 1999. why did i think it was a good idea to leave this thread alone for two days again?)
 
Anyway, from the 30 pages I still haven't read (you can do it self!), I don't know if this was already brought up, but here's a damper on the theories that Solas was Shartan or that Mythal was human or even that humans were once elves:

 

 

For those who can't watch it, what's in this video is what I'm assuming is the max disapproval conversation between a human Inquisitor and Solas, and near the end Solas says,

 

"I should thank you, Inquisitor. I had spent time with few of your people before this. From the stories, I thought you all thuggish, simple, and crude. Now? Now I know I was right. You have no idea what a comfort that is."

 

So, it looks like Solas has hardly had any interaction with humans before, and what he knows about them comes mostly from stories, maybe even from during Arlathan days when humans were still an unknown element in the fringes of elven society.

 

This was painful to watch and yet totally illuminating! I'm not going to be able to ever play through it, but it's totally spot on.

 

WELL

 

I JUST FINISHED MY FIRST PLAYTHROUGH OF DA:I ROMANCING SOLAS

 

someone please hold me until I stop crying

 

I'm just alternating between "I WILL NEVER BE OKAY AGAIN" and "wow this has fascinating implications for the lore and history of this world!!!" and I can't seem to stop

 

 

*hug* I feel your pain. I truly do. Keep writing here and you'll feel a little better, I promise!  It's helped me become quite cheerful actually. Now It's only the times spent away from discussing Solas that have been mostly terrible. Solidarity is a powerful balm.

[LliiraAnna]

The way I see it, the problem with all this guessing is that we don't have a lot of 100-percent-true facts necessary for a solid foundation. Even a small missed detail could completely ruin a theory, or give birth to a new one. I am not very good at building theories "out of nowhere" anyway - I am better at analyzing stuff I already know - but I do find various ideas people come up with fascinating. I just wish we had more info. *cough*DLC*cough*

 

But this thread is really awesome, and people here are awesome too (and not only because of theories). You are the best, guys. 

[Missy_MI]

If I recall correctly, all the statues in the Temple of Mythal were also missing their heads.  This statue seems IMO to be a visual reference to the Winged Victory of Samothrace, a very iconic Hellinistic statue.  It's basically the Winged Victory, but with dragon wings instead of feathered ones.

Oh wow, that's neat! I think the headless versions struck me as odd because I'd just been to the Shrine of Mythal and that one managed to keep its head -- good job wolf guardians!

Spoiler

 

Is it just me or do the dragon statues look like they are praying? It's so strange to see representations of dragons without spread wings.

 

I also re-watched the Flemeth encounter.  She says "Things happened that were never meant to happen". Solas says something similar at the end: "It was not supposed to happen this way." Makes me reaally want some prequel DLC. Like back in the days of Arlathan prequel.

[Gwyvian]

The way I see it, the problem with all this guessing is that we don't have a lot of 100-percent-true facts necessary for a solid foundation. Even a small missed detail could completely ruin a theory, or give birth to a new one. I am not very good at building theories "out of nowhere" anyway - I am better at analyzing stuff I already know - but I do find various ideas people come up with fascinating. I just wish we had more info. *cough*DLC*cough*

 

But this thread is really awesome, and people here are awesome too (and not only because of theories). You are the best, guys. 

 

Half the fun is not knowing, and the newer morsels just keep shifting directions in subtle ways...   it's like being in a huge river of thought that soak into you perceptions and implications that build wonderful dreams.....

[Cheese of Borg]

Still catching up with the thread (just reached pg. 1999. why did i think it was a good idea to leave this thread alone for two days again?)
 
Anyway, from the 30 pages I still haven't read (you can do it self!), I don't know if this was already brought up, but here's a damper on the theories that Solas was Shartan or that Mythal was human or even that humans were once elves:

 

 

 

 

 

 

HOLY ****!  That was a punch! 

[LliiraAnna]

 

Is it just me or do the dragon statues look like they are praying? It's so strange to see representations of dragons without spread wings.

 

 

For me, it looks like they are bowing their heads before Mythal 

[panamakira]

WELL

 

I JUST FINISHED MY FIRST PLAYTHROUGH OF DA:I ROMANCING SOLAS

 

someone please hold me until I stop crying

 

I'm just alternating between "I WILL NEVER BE OKAY AGAIN" and "wow this has fascinating implications for the lore and history of this world!!!" and I can't seem to stop

Welcome! I promise if you stick around here it gets better. I don't know if I could've done without this thread! 

 

[flabbadence]

This was painful to watch and yet totally illuminating! I'm not going to be able to ever play through it, but it's totally spot on.

 

HOLY ****!  That was a punch! 

 

LMAO, yes. I was really shocked and a tad pained when I first watched this, but if Solas had said those things to me, I would probably have punched him too. Thankfully, my Lavellan was pretty nice, and letting the Grey Wardens stay was the only major thing they argued about (aside from the breakup, but that's another matter), so we never got to this point.

[_Lucinia]

Awww Bull and Solas finally seem to be friends.  

 

Spoiler

 

He was worried that he'd give in to madness now that he's Tal'Vashoth.  Solas gave him a pep talk.