153441 réponses à ce sujet

[Ajna]

*re-enters thread*

To me there is no such thing as good hurt!

*leaves thread again*

[Mims]

PS, I'm sort of elven lore dumb.

 

What is The Void? And the whole Legend behind Andruil hunting there? 

 

We don't know exactly what the void is, only that it is where the Forgotten Ones lived. Here is the story about Andruil:

 

One day Andruil grew tired of hunting mortal men and beasts. She began stalking The Forgotten Ones, wicked things that thrive in the abyss. Yet even a god should not linger there, and each time she entered the Void, Andruil suffered longer and longer periods of madness after returning.

 

Andruil put on armor made of the Void, and all forgot her true face. She made weapons of darkness, and plague ate her lands. She howled things meant to be forgotten, and the other gods became fearful Andruil would hunt them in turn. So Mythal spread rumors of a monstrous creature and took the form of a great serpent, waiting for Andruil at the base of a mountain.

 

When Andruil came, Mythal sprang on the hunter. They fought for three day and nights, Andruil slashing deep gouges in the serpent's hide. But Mythal's magic sapped Andruil's strength, and stole her knowledge of how to find the Void. After this, the great hunter could never make her way back to the abyss, and peace returned.

 

—Translated from ancient elven found in the Arbor Wilds, source unverified

[Illyria]

Can we get some effing Team Optimism up in here guys?!

Edit: zombie I ****ing love you.

 

Did someone say....

 

Team Optimism?

 

*hangs up TO banners, hands out TO tee-shirts, bakes a TO cake*

[k_drake]

Just want to agree with this sentiment. Happy endings aren't cliche by default. Tragic endings don't have more literary value by default. They can both be well done or poorly done and that's what should be looked at. I'm actually getting really tired of the idea that dark or tragic translates directly to "more intelligent and subversive." It's been old as long as its been around.

Oh absolutely.  Sometimes tragedy is applied like varnish to cheap wood to give a story more depth than it really has, using the emotion to distract from the weakness of the overall premise.  That said, /in this particular case/, given what we know, I do not feel like the Solavellan ending is shaping up to be a happy one.  The operative phrase here being, "given what we know."  In any case, I'm invested, and eager to see how things turn out.    

[k_drake]

We don't know exactly what the void is, only that it is where the Forgotten Ones lived. Here is the story about Andruil:

*snip*

Hmn, so it sounds like maybe Andruil was the first to become corrupted by red lyrium? 

[TanisLave]

We don't know exactly what the void is, only that it is where the Forgotten Ones lived. Here is the story about Andruil:

 

One day Andruil grew tired of hunting mortal men and beasts. She began stalking The Forgotten Ones, wicked things that thrive in the abyss. Yet even a god should not linger there, and each time she entered the Void, Andruil suffered longer and longer periods of madness after returning.

 

Andruil put on armor made of the Void, and all forgot her true face. She made weapons of darkness, and plague ate her lands. She howled things meant to be forgotten, and the other gods became fearful Andruil would hunt them in turn. So Mythal spread rumors of a monstrous creature and took the form of a great serpent, waiting for Andruil at the base of a mountain.

 

When Andruil came, Mythal sprang on the hunter. They fought for three day and nights, Andruil slashing deep gouges in the serpent's hide. But Mythal's magic sapped Andruil's strength, and stole her knowledge of how to find the Void. After this, the great hunter could never make her way back to the abyss, and peace returned.

 

—Translated from ancient elven found in the Arbor Wilds, source unverified

 

Thank you!

[Mims]

Hmn, so it sounds like maybe Andruil was the first to become corrupted by red lyrium? 

 

That is definitely the most common theory! It sounds a lot like lyrium corruption, followed by a blight on her lands. 

[Rabbitonfire]

So.. before DA3 came out, how did you guys line up the theories? Did you make a list of whose theories were right?

[wildannie]

Like most of us, here, I've been trying to wrap my head around the events surrounding Solas in the game and beyond.  And something's finally occurred to me, that the easy assumption Solas' intentions are focused on freeing the elven pantheon is just too simplistic a rationale. 

 

Why would he do that, anyway?  Why would be risk loosing a whole pantheon of what amounts to deities who're all going to be ticked as heck with him and whoever it is he's befriended over the eons?  Why would he run around for months and months next to someone, encouraging and assisting them to seal rifts and close a huge breach in the sky, if he really was so intent on bringing it apart? 

 

There's a bit of codex I came across in the Temple, that says -- and I'm paraphrasing, here -- that "those who've visited the Beyond have said they've come across Fen'Harel, still walking through dreams to preserve the prisons he helped create".

 

No, I think whatever Solas is planning, it isn't so much about freeing the elven gods.  Thing is, I still can't wrap my head around what his ultimate plan really is.  Whatever it is, the fact remains whatever vestige of power was in his orb, it's now tied intrinsically to the Inquisitor and that creates an incredible bond that links them indefinitely.  It could also be a beacon for whatever power or force that Solas is fighting to save "the people" from, making for an incredible risk to someone he's grown to care for.

 

So much possibility ...

I originally thought that his plan was to drop the veil, but now I am not so sure.  I think he would like to be able to remove the veil but I think his plan was to help elven people in another way, using the orb, that we are not aware of.  I'm guessing the orb could have been used for many things, not just ripping a hole in the veil.

 

This sits much better with his 'strengthening the veil' quest, and the Cole banter that states (paraphrasing) 'if she is real they could all be real, it changes everything but it can't.'  I think that without the veil, the elven people would become 'real' restoring their connection to the fade that was broken, probably also restoring their immortality.   Solas realizes that this connection has now been restored in the Inquisitor, and that the removal of the veil could restore it to all, but that the veil can't be removed so they can't become real.

 

Maybe Solas ultimately intends to return to his role, keeping them locked away, something that has defined him for millenia, a solitary task.  Before that it seems that there are other things he has to do to help the people (don't know what) but dealing with the cause of the blight seems likely.

 

So this leads me to believe that Sandal's prophecy might be fulfilled by another entity (maybe whoever killed Felassan) and that Solas will be trying to stop it and will ultimate fail,  maybe how spectacular that failure will be will be determined by the Inquisitor.  If Solas does not want the veil dropped, and then that is indeed what happens, there may be more hope for his own personal future, as he will no longer have to keep his lonely vigil, he'll have to reunite with Lavellan and help fight whatever new nasties have appeared  .

 

Oooooorrrr, that is all just wishful thinking and ....more tears is all we get 

 

So... I'm the only one (sorry I got 50 pages or so to catch up on) who found the video message a little... weird? Did someone just pay GDL to self-promote? The person who paid - a wonderful gesture ( to all the 2000 pages celebration contributers), but was that 38 seconds of "I need a job!"? Wonderful voice actor and all that, that just didn't sit well with me.

 

Hugs from a rude, grumpy old lady with a cultural background that says "if you are going to sell yourself, do it so the buyer has no idea that it's a sales pitch"

meh,  I thought it was kind of cute that he was so eager to reprise the role in any form,  its a really cool part to play, probably much more exciting than other work he's done recently (going by Wikipedia) so I say 'Go Gareth!'  I don't really know what else he'd have to say anyway.  If I was him I'm sure I'd have said something similar.  But its not like any of us in the wolf pack have any say anyway,  otherwise he'd be recording  lots and lots of fabulously written lines written by the talented Mr Weekes as we speak! 

 

I went off on a bit of theorycrafting yesterday on reddit after listening to sashimi_taco’s cleaned up audio from the Well of Sorrow and have more ideas on everything.

So, what I mostly heard in the hidden audio was:

"Mythal speaks the calling. The call speaks from the blood. …Bound to the same, travel far. … She speaks the truth. She saw the lost. Go to the Warden.”

I think that Mythal was infected and killed by the Blight.

During the time she was infected, she asked her friend Fen’Harel to lock away all the Gods as a quarantine measure. Maybe she asked this of him as a trusted friend, or because he was the most trusted on both sides of the pantheon. Did she finally succumb to the Blight while plotting these measures with Fen’Harel, and thus the belief that he was responsible for her death? Or, perhaps Mythal even asked him for a mercy kill because she could no longer control the corruption. (Recalling the scene with Ser Wesley, Flemeth at least knows this is one way to deal with the corruption).

It’s starting to make sense to me that the other gods may also have been infected and locking them away in uthenera was the only way to slow the effects of the corruption. Which leads me to believe that the Elven Gods are the Old Gods. The corruption in their blood is calling to the darkspawn from uthenera to set them free.

[edit: ALSO, Thinking on how Flemeth saves the Warden in DAO and pushes Morrigan to join them (armed with the knowledge of the Dark Ritual which will preserve the Old God soul). Wardens are considered the experts in Thedas on darkspawn and the Calling. Flemeth needs the Wardens as a means to help her cure the Gods, and as a means to prevent the death of another one]

The elven artifacts you activate for Solas are actually locks to the prison where the Gods sleep. In the Lost Temple of Dirthamen, one of these same artifacts is already activated when you arrive but then when you deactivate it, The Highest One is released. The Highest One had wanted to lock away his followers in a prison but they turned the tables on him instead. When you open the lock to his prison, he is set free. A prison strong enough to lock away Gods would need to have many locks.

So for all of this, Solas doesn’t want the Gods to be freed, at least not just yet. He needs to help them by finding a cure to their corruption. We still don’t know who created the corruption, but my first guess is The Maker. Could it be that simple? “The Maker of the Blight”. The first action of a victor would be to erase any signs of your predecessor(s); make it heresy and treason to worship those old gods.

Whatever the case, I believe it’s all going to come back around to the Blight.

I am 100% with you in regards to the blight,  I think it is much more serious than we knew as it seems that while the Grey Wardens can slow it, their methods may ultimately be missing the real cause.  I think the blight is constant and spreading, the Arch demons just cause an upsurge in activity, but are not part of the cause so their destruction by Grey Warden, has no real impact on the real problem.  I trust Solas 

 

I keep thinking and thinking about Solas's and Lavellan's future and I can't help but feel like.. they have no happy ending. I don't see a way for them to be together and happy that would maintain the integrity of the story. PW said that they created the romance so that his story would be sadder. Why would they need do to this? I can't help but think it's because Solas is going to end up doing something that would require sympathy in order for him to be less one-dimensional and to balance him doing something Big and Dramatic, and, I think.. exiled/lost/alone forever. If he was just a regular companion with no romance and we found out he was a god who was planning to release the other Elvhen (or whatever his original plan was -- which now without the orb I think he'll need to use the combined power of himself and Mythal, likely resulting in self-sacrifice in some way), it would definitely not mean as much if we didn't have a more personal connection and didn't see the side of him that had a chance of love, who could love and love deeply (and who's greatest fear is dying alone, foreshadowing much?).

 

I really really want to be wrong, and surprised, but I just don't see how, unless it got REALLY tropey and hallmark-channely (like, he gives up his godhood to do his Big Plan and is now mortal, consequence free, and him and Lav can be happily ever after). I dunno, maybe I'm in a funky mood.

PW is only talking in the context of what we know from DAI, without the romance we would not be able to understand the sacrifices he is prepared to make at all.  Solas may not be in control of what's going to happen next so there may be ways for a happier ending than him dead or forever alone without ruining the integrity of the story.  Of course, as we don't know where the story is going it is impossible to know, but I'm going to keep trying to fly the team optimism flag for now *waves tiny flag and cries*

[Avejajed]

Good AFTERNOONNNNNNNNNNNNNN

 

What's new? Did I miss anything exciting?

[NightSymphony]

Thank you to those of you that posted that war table link. The font is so small on my XBox..I can't read any of the war table missions..I have no idea if my Lavellan's tribe made it or not...my next play through I will make sure they do.

[dragondreamer]

With the Clan Lavellan missions, I started out using Leliana mostly because I felt like sending soldiers would not be reassuring to a Dalish clan, and Leliana seemed to know how to approach Dalish.  With the "bandit" attacks, my Lavellan was more interested in getting the clan away safely than trying to get them to stand and fight, especially without understanding what exactly was happening.  So Leliana again.  After learning about Duke Antoine's involvement, Josie was sent for diplomatic purposes.  The assumption was that if the guy was serious about being an Inquisition ally, letting him know that the Inquisitor wasn't happy with him harassing her clan might help.  When the Keeper contacts Lavellan for help, telling her about the city elves that came to them, she realizes the situation needs to be dealt with, but with the Duke's actions on a hairtrigger, she has to be careful not to alert him.  She also knows a clan's hunters work best when they can be stealthy.  So Leliana was chosen to sneak the clan's hunters into Wycome.  Afterwards when other cities in the Free Marches were marching on Wycome, Lavellan just wasn't going to take any chances.  Cullen and Inquisition forces were sent out to defend the city. 

 

That was my general line of thinking when I did that questline.  Got reallly lucky.  (Accidently got all my Grey Wardens killed. )

 

I am really hoping he is still alive! Considering it is more or less confirmed that he was a magister like Corypheus, there's a good chance that even if you killed him he was able to body hop. 

 

I loved the concept of intelligent darkspawn. The Architect is by no means a good fellow, but he might be one of our best sources for actually figuring out how to stop the blight. He was a chill guy. I'd have him over for tea. 

 

My Warden killed the Architect...  Which is really horrifying to think about with him being a magister.  That could have had a really bad end.

[Andir]

*re-enters thread*

There is no such thing as good hurt!

*leaves thread again*

D : Don't leave! Nooo! It's just a personal preference. Don't go. Q-Q  *baby come back, you can blame it all on meeee.*

[Sable Rhapsody]

Just want to agree with this sentiment. Happy endings aren't cliche by default. Tragic endings don't have more literary value by default. They can both be well done or poorly done and that's what should be looked at. I'm actually getting really tired of the idea that dark or tragic translates directly to "more intelligent and subversive." It's been old as long as its been around.

 

TBH I think the default campaign of DA:I did an amazing job of balancing the bitter and the sweet.  There are a lot of extremely heartwarming moments (journey to Skyhold, Sera's rooftop cookie conversation, Cole's companion quest, etc.) that are happy without being saccharine.  There are also plenty of moments that are just plain hard to take (Solas's breakup) and some that have elements of both (Flemeth, Morrigan, and OGB Kieran).  Hopefully that'll be the case going forward as well.

 

For ToP:

Source: http://sabalmirss.deviantart.com/

[Aetheria]

Not an end that lacks choices, just one where that that choice isn't possible. But I'd still want closure. Like Mordin. (even though you can save Mordin, I mean the other path..just an example? xD) It's hurts, but it leaves you satisfied. A good hurt. That's my personal hope, even though I know a lot disagree. (I rarely speak up about this because I'm rooting for you guys, but personally I'd love this type of ending. I just hate it being brushed under "overdone" when it hasn't really happened yet. Makes me sad. )

 

I'd be cool with that, myself. Can't say I wouldn't prefer a happier ending a la Witch Hunt, but really the basic thing I want is for there to be more to the story. Because it really seems like it's not over the way it ends in Inquisition. I'd just like there to be closure, for it to be well-written, and for the characters involved to have a chance to make peace with whatever their fate ends up being.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[Arlee]

Eh, I disagree with the tragic endings being overdone. Every romance so far in DA has drama, some much more drama than others, some heartbreaks in there as well, but ultimately every single one so far has a chance for a "happy ending". At least where you can end up together. I think, personally, it would be really interesting to finally have a character that you couldn't. Not an end that lacks choices, just one where that that choice isn't possible. But I'd still want closure. Like Mordin. (even though you can save Mordin, I mean the other path..just an example? xD) It's hurts, but it leaves you satisfied. A good hurt. That's my personal hope, even though I know a lot disagree. (I rarely speak up about this because I'm rooting for you guys, but personally I'd love this type of ending. I just hate it being brushed under "overdone" when it hasn't really happened yet. Makes me sad. )

 

I wasn't meaning they were overdone in DA in particular, just over done in general these days. Movies, Books, and Video Games seem to have a huge push towards having tragic endings in the last few years so at this point it's what I expect. Some do make sense and fit and I wouldn't change them at all, but others are pretty hamfisted which is annoying.

[hellozombie]

Eh, I disagree with the tragic endings being overdone. Every romance so far in DA has drama, some much more drama than others, some heartbreaks in there as well, but ultimately every single one so far has a chance for a "happy ending". At least where you can end up together. I think, personally, it would be really interesting to finally have a character that you couldn't. Not an end that lacks choices, just one where that that choice isn't possible. But I'd still want closure. Like Mordin. (even though you can save Mordin, I mean the other path..just an example? xD) It's hurts, but it leaves you satisfied. A good hurt. That's my personal hope, even though I know a lot disagree. (I rarely speak up about this because I'm rooting for you guys, but personally I'd love this type of ending. I just hate it being brushed under "overdone" when it hasn't really happened yet. Makes me sad. )

Yeah, I get what you're saying but I never said that I felt tragic endings were "overdone". I don't believe that at all...in fact my original argument noted that nearly all of the other romances in the game have happy endings, and that those romances could really do with a little tragedy. If anything is overdone, it is "everything happy all the time" or "everything tragic all the time".  At a certain point, things that are happy all the time, or things that are sad all the time, become boring. Without variety, dimension, surprise, etc, stuff becomes boring. 

 

What I'm championing for with Team Optimism is for the tragedy to be spread around to the other romances to give them more dimension, for the happiness to be spread around to the Solasmance since that one is already so sad. But you know, to each his own. I just can't help thinking about how filled with joy, the type of joy where you're also sobbing on the floor, I was when this scene happened in Breaking Bad: 

Spoiler

 

That is the definition of a nuanced and successful happy ending. Was there tragedy piled upon tragedy prior to this ending? HELLS YEAH. But that is what made the joy of the ending so transcendent and memorable. Now think about how you'd feel if they just made that ending tragic again. No transcendence, no hard-earned joy. Just the same misery visited upon the same character yet again. Pretty boring imo. Lavellen is the only inquisitor that had unavoidable sadness in this game...she deserves a little nuance added to her story in the DLC.

 

Everyone's opinions are completely valid and I respect everyone's courage in stating that they want a tragic ending. Just know that I will pipe up and say HEEEEY NOW WAITAMINUTE NOW EVERYBODY NOW WOOOO BREAK IT DOWN every time. Respectful debate is what makes this thread great!

[drake2511]

I'm out of likes

So Andruil hunting in the Void made her go mad, but also very powerful (hence the armor). The other gods wanted to have that power and fought mythal who was trying to stop them. That may be a good explanation, even if I think falon'din is more involved than just this. There is a huge amount of owl statues in this game

If sylvanfeather's theory turns out to be true (which I'd love) even just a part of it... solas said he must walk a path of solitude forever and one he wouldn't wish even on an enemy. WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO SOLAS come back ;(

[Hattress]

I am starting to feel like dark and tragic endings are getting to be a bit over done. To the point where most of the time my reaction is "meh" instead of being upset. I was actually honestly surprised when I got to the end with the Cullen romance and it was happy, I hadn't been expecting that at all.

For me tragic ending feels more cliche right now......guess it's because I can't forgive what happened in ME3 ending....after all those loses, sacrifices and fighting, why can't we just have a simple nice ending, allowed Shepard to live, allowed us to destroy all the Reapers but not also geth and EDI?  Still people may choose the other two endings since destroy Reaper may only begin another loop of chaos.

No, they did this so to make choice seem "difficult", the ending "not cliche", which made me feel really cheap

[Sable Rhapsody]

For me tragic ending feels more cliche right now......guess it's because I can't forgive what happened in ME3 ending....after all those loses, sacrifices and fighting, why can't we just have a simple nice ending, allowed Shepard to live, allowed us to destroy all the Reapers but not also geth and EDI?  Still people may choose the other two endings since destroy Reaper may only begin another loop of chaos.

No, they did this so to make choice seem "difficult", the ending "not cliche", which made me feel really cheap

 

To be fair, DA is 1) a different IP 2) a very different story structure and 3) currently in a different place from ME3.  I'm no fan of the ME3 original ending either, but I don't think we have to worry about a repeat situation for DA:I.  At the very least, I'd like to think BioWare picked up a lot of pointers from the way ME3 was received.

[DragonRacer in Mourning]

 

The worst part of going through these texts is that by random happenstance these are the last two lines of every single file:

 

000449AF: Re-enable Solas

000449B0: I want Solas back.

 

You and me both, anonymous QA guy.   You and me both.

 

 

Think it means anything deeper that those are in every file? Why? And what does it mean?

 

 

Yess. I want this. I want all the morally grey heroes [or just accident prone ones like Hawke] to converge upon the same conflict and try to figure out how to not screw everything up for everyone. 

 

[And if you don't have Hawke/Stroud/Loghain: Alistair, who gets to be the odd man out wondering what the hell is going on.]

 

You know how in math multiplying two negatives creates a positive?

 

Surely if we throw all our adorable f*ck-ups at the same problem, some type of miracle has got to come out of it, right? 

 

Right? 

[CapricornSun]

Seriously, right??

 

I am having such a hard time playing through the game as a non-elf and having anywhere near as close to as impactful an emotional experience as with one. I mean, really. The Exalted Plains, The Emerald Graves, the Winter Palace/Halamshiral, the Temple of Mythal, the Rituals and Abelas, the Well of Sorrows, the reveal of Flemeth as Mythal, the Orb, Solas? It all just has so much impact if elven. How can I play through those parts of the game as human and have any of them mean so much??

 

Whatever was cut, I feel it was worth it and I won't change my mind. There's still plenty of content for human fans to enjoy, but human fans aren't the only ones who play these games. I'm so glad there's something for us as well.

 

Yes, this! I guess this is probably why I'm having such a hard time finishing my Trevelyan playthrough. All those places you've mentioned? They gave me so much feels when I ran around as an elf knowing that all of them were part of her people's tragic history. But as a human? Nope, I didn't feel anything. 

 

In fact, during the earlier days of development, when I first heard that we were supposed have a human only protagonist, I was ready to give up on this game. I did not want a repeat of DA2 where I'm forced to play a race I don't enjoy playing. 

 

So yes, I'm glad too that there's something in DAI for elf-players to enjoy. I do hope in future we get to delve into the dwarven lore as well. I'd like to know what's up with them, especially after hearing all those odd things Dagna said.