I've just been doing Emprise du Lion again and Solas is in his High Keeper outfit so definitely without shoes; I keep thinking aren't you're feet just a little bit cold? Still I suppose he's not a normal elf anyway and they did make it that he favoured doing cold spells.
Quick question: I didn't find Michel the first time round but I've just recruited him. Back at base we have the quest to reassign him. Now the one that is meant to take the longest is Lelianna's option, which is to get him to help research eluvians with Solas, in view of what he knows about the network in the control of the Orlesian elves. Since this is the first time I have heard this mentioned in game, although I had been wondering when it would come up, does the option lead anywhere? Will I get any interesting conversation with Solas as a result? Normally I'd just go with Cullen's suggestion of using his Chevalier skills and making him an officer in our army but if there is any possibility of the Solas option bearing fruit, I don't want to miss the chance. Help please?
How exactly does he react? I opted for not drinking in my first PT and I'm still too far in others. I presume there is a difference between if he's your LI or not, too?
What miraclemight said. In addition: no, no difference in that conversation between romancing him or not. Only, that if romanced the conversation will transition into the love scene, which obviously does not happen otherwise.
Will I get any interesting conversation with Solas as a result?
I actually never tried THAT. But, you could either check the DA Wiki, usually they tell you the outcome of the war table quests. Or you can simply save, try it out, change your system time and see the result instantly, reload if desired.
However, except for Sera's quest I never had a war table mission that led to any conversation or reaction, so I do not expect it here either.
(Sorry to be so cranky and abrupt earlier. My computer randomly decided to stop loading the BSN and my phone is difficult to use at the best of times, so I was frustrated by technology not working. I can't even scroll back to previous pages to see what others have typed. So, onward!)
I gotta go with the people who say they suspected there was more to Solas than meets the eye, even before learning Fen'Harel. As the player, I thought the appearance of a mysterious and proud apostate who seems to know more than he lets on, provides crucial information and guidance through your journey, and seems to have something of an agenda beyond the immediate obvious threat sounded a LOT like Morrigan from DAO. Like my Warden from DAO though, my Lavellan was smitten with him and trusted him immediately.
As others have said though, Solas' story didn't quite add up. A young small town mage who somehow avoided the attention of human Templars, learned to master his magic so easily without any formal training, learned to explore the Fade without falling prey to any demons ("no more tempting than brightly colored fruit at the market"), wandered the world alone without having any contact or ties with Dalish or city elves anywhere? And he always seemed to know more than anyone with his age and life experience realistically should? And conveniently have all the answers to every problem, which he discovered "in the Fade"? ("Haven destroyed? I know a huge, heavily fortified fortress lost to time that only the ancient elves knew. How did I discover it? Oh, the Fade.")
I imagine my Lavellan suspected there was more to him than met the eye, but she was so smitten and trusting and curious that she was more interested in learning more about him as a person; learn how to walk the Fade, peer into the past, learn about ancient elves, and befriend spirits like him that she didn't press him over where he came from.
He certainly carries himself in an ageless and timeless way. I think my Lavellan quickly saw him as "more truly elven" than most city or Dalish elves alive. The way he slips up by revealing he has experienced court intrigue certainly doesn't help. I imagine she might have started to suspect he might be one of the ancient elves untouched by the "quickening," which only seemed enforced by meeting Abelas and the other ancient elves. (Though Solas... still carries himself differently from them. Still more calm, sure, ethereal, ageless and timeless.)
Then he broke her heart, and all thoughts of who he might have been became: "Why did he leave me?! What did I do?!"
nranola, Kappa Neko, HurricaneGinger et 1 autre aiment ceci
I just remembered, I was so annoyed when Blackwall mentioned fighting darkspawn in Ferelden during the Blight. For two reasons: 1.) Well, isn't that nice, where were you when Surana and Alistair needed help? Just randomly killing darkspawn left and right? 2.) Wait a minute, I read WoT. Warden Constable Blackwall was in Orlais during the Blight, being frustrated that Loghain was barring Orlesian Wardens from entering the country. I don't get it.
And I still didn't come to the obvious answer, argh.
Rekkampum, Lady Luminous et flabbadence aiment ceci
Found another Solas/Lavellan song. 8[ Pandora is evil.
Lyrics
Spoiler
Wicked Game
The world was on fire and no one could save me but you.
It's strange what desire will make foolish people do.
I never dreamed that I'd meet somebody like you.
And I never dreamed that I'd lose somebody like you.
No, I don't want to fall in love (This world is only gonna break your heart)
No, I don't want to fall in love (This world is only gonna break your heart)
With you (This world is only gonna break your heart)
What a wicked game to play, to make me feel this way.
What a wicked thing to do, to let me dream of you.
What a wicked thing to say, you never felt this way.
What a wicked thing to do, to make me dream of you and,
I want to fall in love (This world is only gonna break your heart)
No, I want to fall in love (This world is only gonna break your heart)
With you.
The world was on fire and no one could save me but you.
It's strange what desire will make foolish people do.
I never dreamed that I'd love somebody like you.
And I never dreamed that I'd lose somebody like you,
No, I want to fall in love (This world is only gonna break your heart)
No, I want to fall in love (This world is only gonna break your heart)
With you (This world is only gonna break your heart)
No, I... (This world is only gonna break your heart)
(This world is only gonna break your heart)
Everyone makes fun of it because it's the same animal as this:
Spoiler
Therefore, Harts are viewed as elf mounts.
I don't make fun of it! I love it!
I know Thranduil is a punk. But Lee Pace as him in the movies is so sexy. I'm being very vain and shallow with my love for movie Thranduil. Don't care how much of a jerk he is, he's easy to look at. Yep I am objectifying him.
When I first saw that screenshot I thought it was Sarek from Star Trek, thanks to those eyebrows. lol
Sometimes in life, diplomacy is a futile thing and best abandoned early when red flags rise.
I somehow managed to keep my clan alive and well despite not having any spoilage on the right steps/advisors. Just went with my gut after carefully reading the situation each time and carefully looking at each advisors' proposal.
The first step is reassuring your clan that you're all right and not a prisoner. Sending a spy or an army seems like the total opposite of "reassurance", so that was the one and only time I picked Josie.
<snip>
I just wanna point out that both Josie and Leliana are fine for the first mission. Both recommend sending an elf to tell your clan you're okay. Leliana, however, adds that said elf should bring some supplies and other things the clan might find useful. That's why I always pick Leliana for the first mission. My clan gets to know I'm okay, and they get some nice supplies to boot.
Playing ME2 for a while..just waiting for the Dragon Age books I ordered to arrive. Romancing Garrus...though Thane sure is hard to resist. Did Patrick Weekes write him too?
That whole well thing has me puzzled. If Corypheus had drunk from the well, would he have been under the control of Mythal? If he had, could she have stopped him from using the orb again?
If Solas doesn't believe the elven gods were gods, what does he think he is? I never actually got that conversation first time round about him not believing in them to be gods but of course he believes they exist, he's one of them and, until proven otherwise, is the reason they are not around any more.
Also, at what point did he and Mythal realise they were both still around? Did he not know until after the well or is he an extremely good actor? Did she not know about him? If she did, why hadn't she made contact? Or had she foreseen events and so knew she just had to wait around until he showed up?
Even before the game release I'd always been sceptical about the whole simple elf apostate story and would have put good money on him being an ancient elf. Even an ancient elf might have been a bit leery about revealing himself but it was pretty clear as the story progressed that he was more than he claimed to be. It is the epilogue that totally threw me and I still can't get my head round, not the fact of who he is now meant to be but what his motivations could possibly be.
Blackwall totally blindsided me. It was actually bugging me a lot that he wasn't hearing the false Calling like the other Wardens, something felt off... But I just never considered that he was fake. Afterwards I was kicking myself for not seeing the obvious answer.
Nightmare spoiled that one for me. I knew something was up with him but that's when I figured it out.
And... you guys actually spend gold on beds? I never go into the quarters unless a cutscene drops me there so I'm not giving those poncy Orlesians a dime. In fact I don't pay much attention to Skyhold decor. Not a lot changes no matter what you do.
That whole well thing has me puzzled. If Corypheus had drunk from the well, would he have been under the control of Mythal? If he had, could she have stopped him from using the orb again?
Abelas talks about a mortal not being able to withstand the well, so it would probably not have the same effect on Corypheus since he's absorbed a lot of power from somewhere and is able to exert his will over one of the foci already.
So, my fellow elves. With no dalish bed, which bed did you choose?
I picked the carved Orlesian bed with the overflowing sheets. Was anyone put out that there wasn't a specific decor for the Dalish? I felt like I had to go with the basic and pretend it was Dalish design.
I wanted so badly to decorate Skyhold with elven statues and such. I imagine that would have been weird for Solas to see Fen'Harel statues everywhere though.
For the room, Eisyrill went with the Free Marches canopy bed - reminds her of aravels. Also, Dalish glasswork.
I just remembered, I was so annoyed when Blackwall mentioned fighting darkspawn in Fereldan during the Blight. For two reasons: 1.) Well, isn't that nice, where were you when Surana and Alistair needed help? Just randomly killing darkspawn left and right? 2.) Wait a minute, I read WoT. Warden Constable Blackwall was in Orlais during the Blight, being frustrated that Loghain was barring Orlesian Wardens from entering the country. I don't get it.
And I still didn't come to the obvious answer, argh.
Same reaction! XD
Not to mention he has no idea where his fellow Grey Wardens were or what they were doing. I know the Wardens can be pretty secretive, but they usually share something with their own. I mean, DAII Anders was hiding from the Wardens because he'd killed several people at least when he fused with Justice, but even he had Grey Warden maps and knew where to seek them out in the Deep Roads. That Blackwall was just as clueless as non-Warden party members irked me...
Then I felt dumb for not guessing earlier after the big reveal. XD
EDIT: To keep this Solas-related, I kind of guessed "he might be an ancient elf untouched by the quickening" because I and my proud Dalish Lavellan are more receptive to elf-related things. I also found him more interesting and likable overall. With Blackwall, it's like, "You're boring and your story doesn't add up. You were in Ferelden but you didn't help Tabris or Alistair. We need Wardens as allies but you don't know where they are. What good are you? *big reveal* Oh..."
Nightmare spoiled that one for me. I knew something was up with him but that's when I figured it out.
And... you guys actually spend gold on beds? I never go into the quarters unless a cutscene drops me there so I'm not giving those poncy Orlesians a dime. In fact I don't pay much attention to Skyhold decor. Not a lot changes no matter what you do.
I have some OCD about seeing collections not complete. And there's not really much else to spend money on in this game..
I wanted so badly to decorate Skyhold with elven statues and such. I imagine that would have been weird for Solas to see Fen'Harel statues everywhere though.
For the room, Eisyrill went with the Free Marches canopy bed - reminds her of aravels. Also, Dalish glasswork.
I did the exact same and for the exact same reasons. Free Marches canopy bed and Dalish windows. LOL Wow!
Oh, here's an anecdote you all might appreciate...
back at the start of the game I just sort of threw random accessories on everyone as I got them & told myself I'd upgrade them all later once I was less busy with quests... turns out I gave Solas the amulet "Heart of the Pack" (or similar), which "dropped from a wolf." I didn't notice this until after I got the spoiler for who he was... and afterwards I found it too funny/tragic to take it off
EDIT: looked it up, it's called "Token of the Packmaster"
Solas: I begged you not to drink from the Well! Why could you not have listened?!
Inquisitor: Solas...
Solas: You gave yourself into the service of an ancient elven god!
Inquisitor: W-what does that mean exactly?
Solas: You are Mythal's creature now. Everything you do - whether you know it or not - will be for her. You have given up a part of yourself.
Inquisitor: You don't even believe in the ancient elven gods!
Solas: I don't believe they were gods - no - but I believe they existed! Something existed to start the legends! If not gods- then mages, or spirits... or something we've never seen... and you are bound to one of them now.
Solas: I suppose it is better you have the power than Corypheus. Which leads to the next logical question: what will you do with the power of the Well once Corypheus is dead?
[...]
*trembles* Oh, Solas. That is something I have to try. But as I said in one of my theory posts, in hindsight it would have been awkward to be the slave of one god while romancing another. Regardless of who or what they actually were, the point is that it really would have been mighty awkward. Except... if Flemeth passes on Mythal to Morrigan OR Solas actually devours that aspect of her... would that make Lavellan a slave to Morrigan's will or Fen'Harel's? That would be an interesting twist. Say, if Morrigan drank, and what we saw really was Flemeth passing on Mythal's essence, then is Mythal/Morrigan suddenly her own master, with all her lost knowledge/essence/power restored because the Well was combined with her?
What miraclemight said. In addition: no, no difference in that conversation between romancing him or not. Only, that if romanced the conversation will transition into the love scene, which obviously does not happen otherwise.
Hm, and there's no difference in the love scene depending on your choice? Apart from him asking what you'll do with the power, I got that question even though I didn't drink.
I knew Solas caused the breach after the first conversation with him. He had Anders written all over him. Dreaming of a world without the veil, uh-huh. I know what you did, Solas...
But I had no idea why he did it or who he was. Then I unfortunately read a spoiler about him being the Dread Wolf halfway through the game *sigh* So I'll never know if it was that obvious. It seems REALLY obvious in retrospect. Wolf statues everywhere and the friggin mural on the walls!!!
I probably would not have seen it coming though because before DAI I never cared for the mythology AT ALL. In fact, I had no idea that the games were actually ALL about the gods, lol. I was such a naive idiot and thought Dragon Age was about the mage/templar conflict and all the other SOCIAL problems in current Thedas. I loved THAT stuff. And I treated the mythology as added flavor for the lore nerds. Yeah, really. I could not imagine a game being this complex, having such an amazing mystery build up slowly in the background. DAI was a total eye-opener! Suddenly I was presented with all those marvelous connections, suddenly it all made sense!!! ;D I can't believe how fu*king brilliant this intricate spiderweb is that Bioware has crafted! The more I think about it, the more I love Inquisition for dropping that bomb that everything I believed about Thedas was wrong, how everybody in Thedas was wrong. Everybody was blind, including me, but now I see and it's beautiful!
I am so disturbingly oblivious sometimes when I don't know what I'm looking for. I love to analyze the **** out of characters and storylines, but I need to deliberately look or I miss the show entirely...
This is why I love the genre, the medium and Bioware's team. And why I research what you just described extensively both academically and within my own art.
So, my fellow elves. With no dalish bed, which bed did you choose?
I picked the carved Orlesian bed with the overflowing sheets. Was anyone put out that there wasn't a specific decor for the Dalish? I felt like I had to go with the basic and pretend it was Dalish design.
Anything I couldn't go Dalish for I went with Marcher. Figured that Lavellan would be used to seeing Marcher stuff. My male Lavellan may go for a mix of Dalish and Tevinter, just to ****** off the chantry. And then go sleep with Dorian.
And I used the dragon throne as the game lacks a Dalish one.
Madrar's Nutbag Theory of Magic, the Triad, and What Solas Plans To Do Next
Sticking this madness under spoiler tags to keep it easy to skip for the uninterested. ^w^
Spoiler
Before we start, a quick explanation that everything that follows uses “Sun” and “Earth” as convenient Dalish references for the two primordial, draconic beings whose collaboration seems to have created the DA:I universe.
Spoiler
(…or at least this part of it. The “seraphim” = “fiery serpents” = “dragons” connection raises a strong possibility that there is an even more primordial Maker who crafted them in turn. Theoretical existence aside, the Sun and Earth seem to be the creators of Thedas as we know it.)
Do they still exist?
Yes. The available evidence suggests that the being generally referred to as Mythal was the primordial Earth entity. The Sun is known by no other name by the mortals of Thedas, since it was imprisoned before mortal recorded history in the Void: a localized pocket of space-time accessible by eluvian, most likely located in the Dark City. His blood has been fundamentally twisted by Elgar’nan since his imprisonment, sundering the original Song into what we know as Blight.
ANYWAY. ON TO THE THEORY.
Magic in the DA universe has three distinct sources: the fade, blood, and blight. These are Corpyheus' “three wine glasses”, if you remember Solas’ banter with Vivienne. Two are “natural” in that they are connected to the original state of Creation, the last is “poisoned” and connected to the Sundered Song. They’re actually interrelated in the actual practice of magic, as we’ll see shortly.
Without rehashing too much primordial history, the fade-shadows of the original elves (created by the splitting of their being when the veil was raised) are innate conduits to the Fade, allowing ancient elves to pull a measure of its fundamental indeterminate “stuff” into the physical world. A common in-game metaphor conceives of the fade as water, with the will of the mage shaping the glass. The size of the glass is determined by how much fade you’re able to draw. This is spirit, the contribution of the Earth to mortal magic.
The other half of magic is the will that defines the glass, the part that forces the water to take a desired shape. This will is the individual Song that lives in all mortal blood. In a way, blood is a bit like carrying around your own tiny Maker. It’s the physical side of magic, the contribution of the Sun to mortal existence. Its power to force a given state on indeterminate fadestuff or to change existing reality is related both to the amount and quality that sings the same Song. (In other words, how “loud” the Song is.)
Aside: this is true of the larger world as well. When spirits are forced into the physical world, they are assaulted by the Song that is reality, most driven mad by its volume and twisted to demons. It’s also worth noting that while blood may be the physical embodiment of will, there’s evidence that the Song is present in non-physical entities as well- it’s just much, much softer. As we see with Cole, spirits can develop a limited sense of self that can decide, that can shape- but it’s incredibly fragile and weak compared to mortals and must be strengthened considerably to sustain a true, individual ‘self’ on this side of the veil.
So how does lyrium fit in? Judging from its effect and use by the Templar, lyrium acts like a solid, physical form of Song – greatly increasing the effect of the user’s will, allowing him to hold reality in place. Conversely, it seems to amplify both aspects of magic when wielded by mages: how much fade can be drawn as well as how great a change the mage is able to effect with it. If this observational assumption is accurate, this implies heavily that the blood of the Sun and of the Earth are fundamentally the same material. Or at least they were once, before the Sun’s blood was twisted to blight and the Song sundered.
In summary, magic in Thedas is the interplay of possibility and will, represented respectively as the Fade and the Song. (Or to get Bioware-meta, Options and Choice.) The interaction of these two halves, one drawn from each Creator of the mortal world, is the essence of how magic works in the DA universe and what gives mages the ability to shape the world around them.
I hope that makes sense. I feel a bit like Dagna here, awkwardly trying to wrap words around something my brain is pretty sure it understands but is totally stumbling trying to get it out right.
Magic and the Eternal Triad
This concept of magic is deeply woven into the fabric of the DA universe. This gets a little bumpy, but stay with me, here. Cyclical rebellion to restore the balance of Order and Chaos is the beating heart of Thedas, and in every successful revolution we find the same triad at its center: the Wife, the Husband, and the Lover.
These three roles are sometimes metaphorical, sometimes literal, but always, always present. The triad pops up elsewhere as well, but their relation to the idea of overthrowing established Order is deeply connected, and the Earth – Mythal – forms the center, the critical pivot point, in each and every instance.
She must, because Change is a process that reflects the very nature of magic itself.
As the Earth, she represents the Fade- the realm of Possibility and Option. The Husband and the Lover are competing Wills, or Songs, thus when she abandons one and joins with the other, change is enacted on the world.
I know I’m kind of channeling Dagna again, but hold on to that thought. It’s exactly like casting a spell, but with lives. Like the universe itself casting a spell. A different kind of magic, yet still fundamentally the same and explosively effective. There is a commensurate cost, however, and that price is always the sacrifice of the Wife.
The three critical revolutions of Thedas’ history are as follows:
The First Revolution (The Loss of ‘Eden’)
Wife: the Earth (Mythal)
Husband: the Sun
Lover: Elgar’nan
The Second Revolution (the Fall of Arlathan)
Wife: Mythal (the Earth)
Husband: Elgar’nan
Lover: Falon’Din-Dirthamen (Solas)
The Third Revloution (the Andrastean Rebellion)
Wife: Andraste (Mythal)
Husband: Maferath (Likely just a human mage, but one whose dreams and actions were twisted by Elgar’nan)
Lover: Shartan (Solas)
The events of DA:I may be the first stirrings of a Fourth Revolution. It’s a tempting thought, but I’m not sure how I feel about that yet. The blight threatens the return of tyrannical Order in terms of the sundered Song, but it’s still just a threat, not the actual practice yet- there’s no existing tyrannical rule to be directly challenged. (The mage Circle business barely registers as a social blip compared to the three above.)
That said, it seems very likely that Solas is making preparations for another (final?) showdown with Order in the form of Elgar’nan, no matter what his specific intentions are.
Knowing what we do about the state of the world, the safest bet would be to assume his immediate goal is gaining access to the Void. Unfortunately, it’s almost certain that the only eluvian that would provide that access is in the Dark City, meaning he’ll have to get there first.
If the ‘key’ to open that particular path isn’t physical, then it’s likely that he knows it. After all, Falon’Din stripped the knowledge of how to access the Void from Andruil’s mind to secure his release and restoration to the Pantheon. This is not entirely certain, however, since we can’t say for sure how Dirthamen’s secret-taking powers actually work: whether he takes the secret into himself or simply washes it away as Cole does pain. My personal hunch is that the knowledge is absorbed, and that he now knows what Andruil knew: both the path to the Void, and exactly where the Sun is imprisoned inside it.
I believe his most likely goal is the release of the Forgotten Ones. They are literally his People (just as the Chargers are Bull’s) old allies, former members of the Pantheon who joined with him during the failed rebellion that preceded his successful second attempt, the Fall of Arlathan. When that rebellion failed, the Forgotten Ones were likely tried for treason just as he was, imprisoned as he was, but were never released. Their names and existence was almost entirely wiped from record by Elgar’nan and his alliance of Order- the faintest shadow left as a pointed warning to others of what the faction could and would do to any who opposed it.
As for the less-likely alternatives:
It’s possible he wants to access the Void to attempt to stop the threat of the blight at its source, but that’s so unlikely it’s hard to wrap my mind around the how and why. First, as much as I love Solas, that particular task seems waaay beyond his power. He and Mythal have been aware of the blight’s true source and nature since the time of ancient Arlathan, well before the first darkspawn was ever spotted on the surface of Thedas, and he’s in a much weaker position to do anything about it now than he has been in the past. (Aside from having an advantage over Elgar’nan in being fully conscious and out in the world, but even that’s not much, since he’d need to wake him to have any hope of forcing him to undo what was done to the Song… assuming reversal is even possible in the first place.)
Bringing down the veil is another potential objective that I’m not convinced lies within his power. Also, given what I think I know now about his overarching goals and interests within the DA universe, that seems like the absolute last thing he’d choose to do. Returning to “Eden” would be the ultimate admission of defeat, and I’m not sure he’s that broken. Not yet. The fire may be guttering, but it’s still there. I think he’ll fight.
I have to believe he will.
My additions to your theory under spoiler tag:
Spoiler
I just need to say, I love your incorporation of thermodynamics into your theory revolving around the fade. So I'm going to add in some thoughts only referring to your "three wine glasses" theory:
You said that in your theory that the three distinct sources are: the fade, blood, and blight. This reminds me of the physical states of matter: Solid (blight - red lyrium crystals(?)), liquid (blood), and gas (fade (I assume)). Is magic the outcome of these three states reaching thermodynamic equilibrium (the triple point) at a specific x/y? Normally triple points are reached via pressure and temperature but I don't think that applies in the DA universe, so what are the determinants used for the changes in these states? I don't know, i'm still working on that.
But because we know magic is related to the fade, and both blood and/or lyrium makes it stronger- SO:
Could blood magic/lyrium magic be something similar to how a substance behaves when it reaches its critical point (like a supercritical fluid) and therefore taking on properties of both states (fade/blood or fade/blight) and possibly becoming more volatile/reactive/stronger? I'm going off of my current knowledge of thermodynamics as it relates to chemistry, so feel free to correct me if any of this doesn't work in certain scenarios because I know your understanding of physics is probably better than mine.
EDIT: It could also explain why Corypheus is so strong, possibly. Because he uses blight (red lyrium) magic in addition to (possibly in equilibrium with?) normal fade magic- he's a mixture of both- the first darkspawn as well as a mage.
Also, feel free to PM me any theories you have if you don't feel like posting them on the forum, I love theory crafting but it's not everyone's cup of tea. Your brain inspires my brain.
To keep this on topic for those who don't wish to read crazy fade theory crafting!:
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