Hmm - a list of spirits or possible spirits
The Guardian of the Ashes
The Riddlers in the Gauntlet
The spirit wolves in the mage Origin harrowing
The Spirit of Valor ibid
The Spirit of Justice
Wynn's Spirit
Cole
The Spirit of the Forest (The Lady)
any more?
Those Enraged Spirits who took the form of dwarves. We know ghosts aren't a thing in Thedas.
She is neither Justice nor Vengeance; she is the spirit of the forest, or nature. She simply represents the concept of Nature--and her own nature is dual, as evidenced by her two forms. Her two forms, as I also posted, have two different sexes: the female Lady form, and the male Witherfang form.
Yep, they've been good.
There were harsh words spoken on both sides. Let's not turn this into an "us" vs. "them."
That's definitely interesting. I'm not sure how to fit that into my existing theory of How Things Work, which means there's got to be a big hole in it somewhere. I can kind of explain how general shapeshifting might work (a spirit that's poured his whole fade-water-self into a physical cup, so to speak. Like Cole. Assuming he had enough Will to exert mental control over the cup’s shape, then he really could change into anything he liked.) Being limited to two forms, though... hmm. And I still don't really get why Cole bleeds. He's manifested some degree of Will, yes- but his Song should be so weak compared to everyone else....
And for the Lady to have Will strong enough to actually force change on existing reality? Yikes. That's... really strong. Incredibly old, maybe even partially dragon-level strong.
Ugh. More questions than answers. I should play the game.
Wouldn't think too hard about it, madrar.
The way it's explained, it's just another way for her to represent the duality of nature. But I suspect it's also mostly because she was bound to the body of a male wolf, and, as I said, we don't actually know if it was Fen'harel's body, or simply a well-known and particularly large/aggressive wolf (which of course, given how the Dalish feel about Fen'harel, they might have thought was the Dread Wolf).
Those Enraged Spirits who took the form of dwarves. We know ghosts aren't a thing in Thedas.
That's right! I hated the noise they made.
Were there any from DA2?
One thing that always bothered me about the wardens is how they conscript. They claim the right to just conscript people and take property....and I generally tend to question when people put "the greater good" over individual rights like that. Granted a lot of the people they conscript are criminals, and Thedas is a medieval inspired world where this is the norm...But still. I made sure my Quizzy avoided conscripting as much as I could. Which meant skipping some war table quests....but the Wardens are kinda corrupt and could use some reforms too, I thought. I exiled them. Don't get me wrong I loved my Warden and loved Origins. But my Warden was a blood mage, and much darker and more ruthless than my Quizzy.
Yeah I remember in DAO feeling like, really really awful about the one dude who tries to back out of the ritual, I think he said he had like a family and couldn't do it, and Duncan was all like, TOO BAD SO SAD and then MURDERKNIFED HIM IN THE FACE. Bear with me because it was a few years ago that I played the game and I might not be remembering it correctly, but I do remember for sure feeling very upset that the guy wasn't allowed to walk away back to his family. Like, I think he had a pregnant wife waiting for him? That uh, definitely put a bad taste in my mouth (a tainted taste? hahahah) about the Wardens at the very beginning.
list of spirits or possible spirits
The Guardian of the Ashes
The Riddlers in the Gauntlet
The spirit wolves in the mage Origin harrowing
The Spirit of Valor ibid
The Spirit of Justice
Wynn's Spirit
Cole
The Spirit of the Forest (The Lady)
Enraged Dwarf spirits
The Spirit of Command
Yeah I remember in DAO feeling like, really really awful about the one dude who tries to back out of the ritual, I think he said he had like a family and couldn't do it, and Duncan was all like, TOO BAD SO SAD and then MURDERKNIFED HIM IN THE FACE. Bear with me because it was a few years ago that I played the game and I might not be remembering it correctly, but I do remember for sure feeling very upset that the guy wasn't allowed to walk away back to his family. Like, I think he had a pregnant wife waiting for him? That uh, definitely put a bad taste in my mouth (a tainted taste? hahahah) about the Wardens at the very beginning.
Well, he pulled his sword on Duncan, or else Jory would have been fine I am sure.
That's definitely interesting. I'm not sure how to fit that into my existing theory of How Things Work, which means there's got to be a big hole in it somewhere. I can kind of explain how general shapeshifting might work (a spirit that's poured his whole fade-water-self into a physical cup, so to speak. Like Cole. Assuming he gained enough Will to exert mental control over the cup’s shape, then he really could change into anything he liked.) Being limited to two forms, though... hmm. And I still don't really get why Cole bleeds. He's manifested some degree of Will, yes- and getting stronger all the time- but his Song should still be so weak compared to everyone else...
And for the Lady to have Will strong enough to actually force change on existing physical reality with a few drops of blood? Yikes. That's really strong. Incredibly old, maybe even partially dragon-level strong. Some kind of direct connection to Mythal would make sense, I suppose, given her domain....
Ugh. More questions than answers. I should play the game.
I'm not sure if this helps you, but Morrigan, Flemmeth, and also Mage!Warden (if you chose that path) could also shape shift into various forms. My memory of the dialogue could be wrong because I played origins ages ago, but I believe Morrigan implied that the shapeshifting skill tree was not linked to blood magic (blood magic was a separate skill tree altogether)
EDIT: The reason I mentioned this is because although Morrigan/Flemmeth may have some special spirituality thing going on, I don't know if the Warden does?
Wouldn't think too hard about it, madrar.
The way it's explained, it's just another way for her to represent the duality of nature. But I suspect it's also mostly because she was bound to the body of a male wolf, and, as I said, we don't actually know if it was Fen'harel's body, or simply a well-known and particularly large/aggressive wolf (which of course, given how the Dalish feel about Fen'harel, they might have thought was the Dread Wolf).
It's like having a loose thread on a sweater, though @w@ I've gotta pull on it. Can't help myself, even if the whole thing unravels. If it's going to fall apart, better I find out now rather than later, since it means it was a shabby, crappy sweater in the first place.
Anyway, I wouldn't doubt that Ghil's toys had some degree of their own agency when they weren't being used. Or gained it, maybe, since everything had to come from somewhere. Large scary wolf not being literal Dread Wolf doesn't necessarily rule out anything.
list of spirits or possible spirits
The Guardian of the Ashes
The Riddlers in the Gauntlet
The spirit wolves in the mage Origin harrowing
The Spirit of Valor ibid
The Spirit of Justice
Wynn's Spirit
Cole
The Spirit of the Forest (The Lady)
Enraged Dwarf spirits
The Spirit of Command
I really like the idea that Solas might be something of an 'adopted' son to Mythal. It fits well in with how close [but different] his character is to Morrigan. For added measure, they even fight like bratty siblings.
FALON'DIN WHY CAN'T YOU BE MORE LIKE FEN'HAREL. HE'S SO SMART AND CLEVER. ALL YOU DO IS KILL PEOPLE.
*Mythal squishes Solas' face with her hand and slips him a 20 dollar bill*
You guys, I have an overwhelming craving to watch Wreck It Ralph instead of play DA:I. ...What is wrong with me? *wail*
Someone do an exorcism. "The spirit of Solas compels you!" or something.
I think one of the problems I have with the Fen'harel is also Falon'din theory is that Solas himself said that Falon'din was so arrogant that he started wars to gain followers. It's such an extreme opposite to Solas' values and personality that I just can't imagine them being the same.
FALON'DIN WHY CAN'T YOU BE MORE LIKE FEN'HAREL. HE'S SO SMART AND CLEVER. ALL YOU DO IS KILL PEOPLE.
*Mythal squishes Solas' face with her hand and slips him a 20 dollar bill*
Dirthamen: butmomitsmeyourotherson-
I'm not sure if this helps you, but Morrigan, Flemmeth, and also Mage!Warden (if you chose that path) could also shape shift into various forms. My memory of the dialogue could be wrong because I played origins ages ago, but I believe Morrigan implied that the shapeshifting skill tree was not linked to blood magic (blood magic was a separate skill tree altogether)
EDIT: The reason I mentioned this is because although Morrigan/Flemmeth may have some special spirituality thing going on, I don't know if the Warden does?
I suppose it makes sense. Changing your own shape should be pretty hard, which means it either requires blood with a huge amount of Will, or a whole lot of Blood. Good fit either way, I suppose. Morrigan being able to do it without being a blood mage is... puzzling.
OH! No wait. Maybe it isn't. Flemeth was breeding her own line of daughters, wasn't she?
Yeah I remember in DAO feeling like, really really awful about the one dude who tries to back out of the ritual, I think he said he had like a family and couldn't do it, and Duncan was all like, TOO BAD SO SAD and then MURDERKNIFED HIM IN THE FACE. Bear with me because it was a few years ago that I played the game and I might not be remembering it correctly, but I do remember for sure feeling very upset that the guy wasn't allowed to walk away back to his family. Like, I think he had a pregnant wife waiting for him? That uh, definitely put a bad taste in my mouth (a tainted taste? hahahah) about the Wardens at the very beginning.
Ser Jory.
To be fair to Duncan ( a little bit), they'd just gotten to the Joining part. Which is basically blood magic and could damage the Wardens' reputation. Though I'm pretty sure they have an exemption clause from the Chantry.
It's ridiculous how secretive the Wardens are. What does it hurt people to know that a Warden has to die to slay an Archdemon? That would prevent people from seeing them as a parasitic order riding on the coattails of their predecessors. If they revealed more about how the Order works, it might hurt recruitment, but it would also prevent stunts like Loghain being willing to sacrifice the Ferelden Wardens, thinking they were faking a Blight.
A lot of trouble would have been prevented if poor Duncan had just said, "Yeah. We tap into the hive mind of the Blight. The Archdemon is awakened. And he is PISSED."
About the Cole bleeding thing, I questioned that too. He doesn't eat, presumably doesn't relieve himself, Solas (not really, he just asked if Cole was interested in women) and Bull seem to believe he can [insert one of Isabela's colorful variety of ways to say having sex], and does he sleep (doesn't look like it)? So why then, does he bleed?That's definitely interesting. I'm not sure how to fit that into my existing theory of How Things Work, which means there's got to be a big hole in it somewhere. I can kind of explain how general shapeshifting might work (a spirit that's poured his whole fade-water-self into a physical cup, so to speak. Like Cole. Assuming he gained enough Will to exert mental control over the cup’s shape, then he really could change into anything he liked.) Being limited to two forms, though... hmm. And I still don't really get why Cole bleeds. He's manifested some degree of Will, yes- and getting stronger all the time- but his Song should still be so weak compared to everyone else...
And for the Lady to have Will strong enough to actually force change on existing physical reality with a few drops of blood? Yikes. That's really strong. Incredibly old, maybe even partially dragon-level strong. Some kind of direct connection to Mythal would make sense, I suppose, given her domain....
Ugh. More questions than answers. I should play the game.
<snip>
Andruil: The bratty, scrappy sister.
<snip>
This is the image I get when thinking of Andruil in that context.
(holy crap that image was huge)
Guest_Faerunner_*
I think one of the problems I have with the Fen'harel is also Falon'din theory is that Solas himself said that Falon'din was so arrogant that he started wars to gain followers. It's such an extreme opposite to Solas' values and personality that I just can't imagine them being the same.
Where does he say that?
Actually, now that I think on it, when I was at the Temple of Mythal, Solas only commented on the Andruil mural. The rest got no commentary from the party. Was this a bug?
It's like having a loose thread on a sweater, though @w@ I've gotta pull on it. Can't help myself, even if the whole thing unravels. If it's going to fall apart, better I find out now rather than later, since it means it was a shabby, crappy sweater in the first place.
I wouldn't doubt that Ghil's toys had some degree of their own agency, when they weren't being used. Or gained it, maybe, since everything had to come from somewhere. Large scary wolf not being literal Dread Wolf doesn't necessarily rule out anything.
I may not always agree with your theories but I do enjoy reading them. And yes, you should probably just play the game 
Where does he say that?
Actually, now that I think on it, when I was at the Temple of Mythal, Solas only commented on the Andruil mural. The rest got no commentary from the party. Was this a bug?
Sounds like. It is supposed to trigger at each of the talkable murals, with the exception of the ones in the back room.
Their drinking that taint juice is apparently kept hush hush. So yup murderknife since he knew a bit too much. Conscription becomes difficult if people knew you have low chances to make it through the ritual.
I think one of the problems I have with the Fen'harel is also Falon'din theory is that Solas himself said that Falon'din was so arrogant that he started wars to gain followers. It's such an extreme opposite to Solas' values and personality that I just can't imagine them being the same.
Don't let his guilt trip mislead you! Remember who it is that tells you the story of Falon'Din. Solas claims "the blood of those who wouldn't bow low filled lakes as wide as oceans"- but note that he doesn't claim he killed them. He didn't. They wouldn't bow low to the rest of the Pantheon.
Solas-as-Falon'Din was leading a social rebellion, but it failed, leaving the blood of all who followed him on his hands. He thought what he was doing was right, he thought he could change the world, but it didn't work.
That's the sin of Pride he's talking about there. But as Cole says: He didn't do it to be right. He did it to help them. And he wasn't wrong.
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