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[Sashimi_taco]

[Birdy]

Didn't they explicitly state that they're not doing party member DLCs like Sebastian (and Kasumi, and Zaeed, and Javik) anymore? Or did they just say they're not doing day one party member DLCs... crap. >_>

One day

[Doveberry]

I have found that I have a very specific pet peeve when it comes to fan fiction. I don't like it when people have Solas call Lavellan "ma sa'lath" ("my one love" in elven). He never calls her that in game, and it seems weirdly possessive on the fic author's part to use that specific wording. Solas is several thousand years old; he has more than likely loved other people (and possibly spirits ) in a variety of ways. Thinking of him living all that time completely without any kind of romantic involvement with others just seems deeply sad to me. I don't see how his connection to Lavellan would be any less significant because she's not the first woman he's loved. As long as he does love her once they've found each other, what difference does it make? Also, I guess that it somehow feels like his personal feelings are being violated (a fictional character, I am SO overthinking this). If it really is the case that Lavellan is the one individual in all of time that can make him truly happy (even though love certainly isn't exclusively about happiness), then should not Solas himself get to be the one to say it? It seems like such a self-aggrandising assumption to just decide that Lavellan is THE ONE for him (implying that the rest of his hypothetical loves would not have not been "as real" as his feelings for Lavellan).

 

Generally speaking, I tend to find the idea of a "one, true love" rather distasteful. It creates a harmful ideal with real world consequences (for instance, people staying in harmful relationships even though they want to leave, simply because they've been told that "love should be forever" until they actually believe it). What makes one's second love lesser than the first? Is there some specific reason why they can't all be "true"?

 

Yay melodrama.

 

... I blame Solas for this fanfic-induced rambling.

 

Disclaimer, though: I don't think that this is actually what the fic authors meant when they put "ma sa'lath" in their stories. Most of them probably just thought it sounded sweet. These are all just thoughts (of which I frequently have entirely too many) that popped up in my head when I kept seeing that expression in every other Solas fic.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I have found that I have a very specific pet peeve when it comes to fan fiction. I don't like it when people have Solas call Lavellan "ma sa'lath" ("my one love" in elven). He never calls her that in game, and it seems weirdly possessive on the fic author's part to use that specific wording. 

 

Out of curiosity, does it bother you if Lavellan calls Solas "ma sa'lath?"  I think I've done that once or twice, and depending on the Lavellan, it's IMO more plausible.

[CapricornSun]

 

Source: http://purple-meow.d...s-DAI-506416620

-----

Aaand keeping this next one as a link because while it's mostly cute/funny, there is a bit of silly NSFW stuff in it. (Basically Lavellan fantasizing some kinky sex stuff) 

 

http://purple-meow.d...reams-505739467

[jellobell]

 

 

http://ladyvoxxy.tum...-omgsolasmylove

Huh. First depiction of Solas with hair that I've actually liked.

[Rabbitonfire]

@CapricornSun83:Oh my gosh, the NSFW one is funny. 

[Doveberry]

Out of curiosity, does it bother you if Lavellan calls Solas "ma sa'lath?"  I think I've done that once or twice, and depending on the Lavellan, it's IMO more plausible.

Not at all. Each Lavellan belongs in every meaningful way to the player/author. They can say and do whatever they want and I won't bat an eyelid. The reason why I have trouble accepting it coming from Solas is that nobody can know to any significant extent that it is true (and I don't personally think I'd want it to be, either). Well, nobody except Weekes, perhaps. 

 

The fanfic authors are free to imagine that that's the way Solas feels, of course. It just makes me a little uncomfortable, personally, since it seems like such a significant and specific thing to say. Coming from Solas rather than Lavellan, I think that it would become quite a lot more significant as well. He has lived long enough to know not to say things without thinking them through.

[Eomie]

It just occurred to me that the Lady of the Forest is yet another example of a spirit pulled out of the Fade against its will and thus corrupted to become a demon. Though eventually she does turn back from Vengeance to become a spirit of Justice. Its also interesting that the spell that pulled her through also linked her to Zathrian in way that might have made him immortal had the curse not been lifted.

She was not from the fade, but was from the forest itself. Or at least that is how I understood...

 

http://dragonage.wik...y_of_the_Forest

[electricfish]

Had some thoughts after going through the Abyss quest. Came across a codex entry about a slave's thoughts about his master (who changed his name to Corypheus and was a priest of Dumat, hmm) who was going to do a blood magic ritual involving all the elf slaves he had. The codex mentioned that the Old Gods were silent or no longer around, and the people of Tevinter were pretty freaked out about it. The high priests of each Old God were concocting a plan to go into the Fade, led by Corypheus because all he listened to were the whispers in his head/in dreams.

 

This isn't organized, but could still be an interesting addition to the theorycrafting about the significance of the Black City in relation to Arlathan and ancient elves.

 

Old Gods disappeared or fell silent before Corypheus and company went into the Fade.

Corypheus heard whispers in dreams guiding him to the goal. Tevinter Old God worship was on a decline and priests/people in general were afraid. Whispers came from somewhere. From who or what? Something trapped in the Black City. Or something that wants to release a thing from the Black City.

Corypheus found only dead whispers before being ejected and twisted. Means he didn't figure out what to do, or was a tool to spread Blight corruption. Possibly through lyrium. Became red after DA2, unrelated design change or lyrium embedded in skin acquired new or different corruption.

 

Black City might be center of Blight corruption, or the origin. Like spores from mushrooms that have been sitting for years. Maybe placed there as part of "future sight" plan, or as failsafe in case something went wrong. 

Could be Arlathan's Fade mirror. Ancient elves had floating cities, why not the capital of the empire? The disaster spell by ancient Tevinter could have sent it crashing to the ground and "buried" like in the legends via debris and the giant crater it would have made.

Arlathan's twin in the Fade wouldn't need to crash, but the memory of it could still be corrupted based on the intent of a mass group of people, or whatever the spirits(demons at the time probably) focused on. Might have been corrupted when Corypheus and company actually stepped foot in it because they intended bad things, and the Fade responds to intent, especially since they were there physically. Intended to loot/corrupt, which then affected them in turn?

[electricfish]

Yeah, I don't like it when fanfiction writers put words in characters' mouths as well. If it's not what he calls the character in game, or something close (I feel like "Ma vhenan" is kind of stretching it, since he mostly calls you plain "vhenan" in the game, but at least it has "vhenan" in there), then I say really think carefully about what you know about the character and if you truly think this fits. Or just don't do it.

 

 

"Ma vhenan" is just another variant of "vhenan." He tells Lavellan "ar lath ma vhenan" on the balcony, in which it's used to accentuate the intent that Lavellan is "my heart." Vhenan by itself can also mean "my heart," but can also be an informal way of greeting a loved one. Like calling someone "dear" or "honey" if your SO wants to get your attention. Merril uses "ma vhenan" in one of her combat barks when Hawke faints.

"Ma" is just an article that may or may not precede the word, and can imply significance if that's how it's intended. Which the ancient elves have a tendency to use words based as much on their intent as their actual meaning/use.

In short: ma vhenan is just as acceptable as vhenan when a loved one is referring to another significant other.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Yeah, that's another reason I don't tend to like fanfiction or even young adult romance stories, since this kind of thing crops up a lot.

 

Nothing really to add, you've summed my feelings up nicely. I agree, just because you're not each other's "first love" or one or both of you have had meaningful relationships before each other doesn't mean your love is any less precious, committed, or happy.

 

I'm not crazy about the "one true love" thing either.  But to play a bit of devil's advocate, there is definitely an element of fantasy to BioWare's romances, and not just in the setting.  For example, I very much doubt that most of the people who loved the Fenris romance would actually be willing to put up with a guy like Fenris IRL for seven years   The fantasies of love changing someone, of saving someone, of one true love and happily ever after--they're powerful and popular ones in any story, and BioWare certainly lets players indulge in them from time to time.  

 

They're not terribly realistic fantasies, but it only becomes problematic if people start expecting real life to play out the same way as the story.

[Rabbitonfire]

http://pyrogoth.tumb...atulations-they

[Doveberry]

"Ma vhenan" is just another variant of "vhenan." He tells Lavellan "ar lath ma vhenan" on the balcony, in which it's used to accentuate the intent that Lavellan is "my heart." Vhenan by itself can also mean "my heart," but can also be an informal way of greeting a loved one. Like calling someone "dear" or "honey" if your SO wants to get your attention. Merril uses "ma vhenan" in one of her combat barks when Hawke faints.

"Ma" is just an article that may or may not precede the word, and can imply significance if that's how it's intended. Which the ancient elves have a tendency to use words based as much on their intent as their actual meaning/use.

In short: ma vhenan is just as acceptable as vhenan when a loved one is referring to another significant other.

I think that what she meant, perhaps, was that Solas seems to prefer just "vhenan" rather than "ma vhenan". So if one intends to imitate the way that Solas speaks when writing a fic, one should use "ma vhenan" rather sparingly (and preferably not at all). Just writing "vhenan" is more "Solas", and would therefore be a better imitation of his voice.

 

Edit: I type slowly. You already had an answer, apparently.

[Kulyok]

Personally, when I romance someone in game, I don't think about their past loves at all. In the moment, they are my true love - and of course, as I love them, I hope it lasts forever. So, yes, "my one true love" on both sides. I prefer to think Hawke was Anders' one true love, and I think the same of my Warden and Morrigan, and though Solas might've led thousands of lives before Arlathan fell, here and now, in this time, Lavellan is his one true love, and she is hers.

 

I'm comfortable with that in my headcanon, and if someone else thinks about it differently, I have not problem with it, as long as they don't try to impose their headcanon on me. Certainly, in real life things might be different for different people(and who's to say that people who believe in one true love have it wrong?), but here in the game, I prefer to believe in true love and not moving on, so I'm waiting for Solas forever. I believe in us.

 

(and that sounds insufferably sappy and romantic, I know. ah well.)

[Siha]

For example, I very much doubt that most of the people who loved the Fenris romance would actually be willing to put up with a guy like Fenris IRL for seven years   The fantasies of love changing someone, of saving someone, of one true love and happily ever after--they're powerful and popular ones in any story, and BioWare certainly lets players indulge in them from time to time.  
 
They're not terribly realistic fantasies, but it only becomes problematic if people start expecting real life to play out the same way as the story.

*thumbs up*
Though, I must say... I might even be able to do a Fenris-Rivalmance in real life -- not the friendship romance, though, where you have to carefully consider every single word in order to make him approve. However, I would most likely not put up with a Solas type. Give me a week and I would be so fed up with having somebody around who always needs me to see how special and educated he is and who I may never question. Seen this way, maybe that IS the Fenris friendship romance all over.

[Doveberry]

I'm not crazy about the "one true love" thing either.  But to play a bit of devil's advocate, there is definitely an element of fantasy to BioWare's romances, and not just in the setting.  For example, I very much doubt that most of the people who loved the Fenris romance would actually be willing to put up with a guy like Fenris IRL for seven years    The fantasies of love changing someone, of saving someone, of one true love and happily ever after--they're powerful and popular ones in any story, and BioWare certainly lets players indulge in them from time to time.  

 

They're not terribly realistic fantasies, but it only becomes problematic if people start expecting real life to play out the same way as the story.

 

Very good points. It's extremely likely that I wouldn't even be interested in the Bioware romances if they reflected real life too much. That would make for pretty useless escapism.

 

Thank you, that is exactly what I meant.

 

And you said it much more diplomatically than I did. ^^; (So sorry!)

I thought you explained your view very clearly. Just hadn't seen your post when I wrote mine.

[Siha]

[...] one should use "ma vhenan" rather sparingly (and preferably not at all). Just writing "vhenan" is more "Solas", and would therefore be a better imitation of his voice.

Yes. Or as he usually addressed my Lavellan: a plain emotionless "Hello."
I guess, even with the romance flag active, he did not really like her much.

[electricfish]

Yes, I know all that. It's just that Solas himself does not often say "ma vhenan" out loud in the game. Far more often (and always in my playthrough), he simply addresses you as "Vhenan." I would feel weird about writing or reading a fanfic in which he habitually calls her "ma vhenan" when, in the game, he simply calls her "Vhenan" instead.

 

That's how picky I am about details.

 

That's a fair point. Solas tends to be very deliberate in his wording, even when he's excited about something. It would make sense for fanfic writers to try and emulate it if they wanted to be as "true" to his character as possible, even for something that seems as small as a prefix article in a phrase. I didn't think about it that way at first, just the academic language bit and the apparent rule for use. My bad.

[CapricornSun]

This comic.... xD

 

 

Source: http://thequndemands...ings-of-what-if

[Doveberry]

Personally, when I romance someone in game, I don't think about their past loves at all. In the moment, they are my true love - and of course, as I love them, I hope it lasts forever. So, yes, "my one true love" on both sides. I prefer to think Hawke was Anders' one true love, and I think the same of my Warden and Morrigan, and though Solas might've led thousands of lives before Arlathan fell, here and now, in this time, Lavellan is his one true love, and she is hers.

 

I'm comfortable with that in my headcanon, and if someone else thinks about it differently, I have not problem with it, as long as they don't try to impose their headcanon on me. Certainly, in real life things might be different for different people(and who's to say that people who believe in one true love have it wrong?), but here in the game, I prefer to believe in true love and not moving on, so I'm waiting for Solas forever. I believe in us.

 

(and that sounds insufferably sappy and romantic, I know. ah well.)

Despite my personal feelings on "true love" (at least in it's most common definition), all of this makes a lot of sense to me. For instance, I tend to have trouble romancing characters that can hook up with other NPCs, even if it's never even hinted at when the player character is pursuing the romance. That's one of the reasons I could never quite get completely into the Garrus romance (also, I didn't want Tali to end up alone ). Even though I don't necessarily think that it will last forever for all of my characters, I want to feel that it's real when I'm actually playing the game. Perhaps I get too attached to my characters, but I want them to be loved for who they are; not because the NPC they're romancing is feeling a bit lonely (and keeps a backup in store just in case).

 

Also, if you'll allow me a tiny bit of fangirling, YOUR XAN MOD IS SO AWESOME!

I'm thinking of going through BG2 with him again, to help with the Solas-induced sadness. Xan always cheers me up, especially when he's being anything but cheerful.

[javeart]

I'm not crazy about the "one true love" thing either.  But to play a bit of devil's advocate, there is definitely an element of fantasy to BioWare's romances, and not just in the setting.  For example, I very much doubt that most of the people who loved the Fenris romance would actually be willing to put up with a guy like Fenris IRL for seven years   The fantasies of love changing someone, of saving someone, of one true love and happily ever after--they're powerful and popular ones in any story, and BioWare certainly lets players indulge in them from time to time.  

 

They're not terribly realistic fantasies, but it only becomes problematic if people start expecting real life to play out the same way as the story.

 

Though I agree for the most part, I just wanted to point out that there's a difference between what one would want to put up with or not, and what actually people put up with    I mean, there's lot of drama in lots of real life relationships... though not so much happy endingds, unfortunately