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[Eivuwan]

Yep. You'll notice that most of the characters with last names have an identifiable house behind them, or some kind of legacy. Pentaghasts, royal family and famed dragon hunters of Nevarra. Tethras, of the dwarven House Tethras. Vael, of Starkhaven's ruling family. Dorian Pavus, of house Pavus in Tevinter where bloodlines are made of diamonds and gold.

 

Yeah, that makes sense. I do wish that our companions have last names or at least a good reason for not having one like Iron Bull. Otherwise it kind of feels like they're at the level of pets or something. Heck, some people give their pets last names.

[Rabbitonfire]

From my experience working as an illustrator, not often. I don't know how bioware's office runs itself, but usually an artist predominantly interfaces with the art director, not the writers. Which is why I always hesitate about relying too much on the art assets to formulate theories. Its fun! But, most artists don't work with the writers over their shoulders. 

As a person in Interactive Media ... Writers think too much, middle man translates for us. 

[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[madrar]

 

<snip snip snip>

 

Otherwise, TL;DR: Kirkwall was constructed as a CITY-SIZED, SHAPED GLYPH. It's sewers held downward grooves FOR BLOOD MAGIC RITUALS. Personally, I think this is not the first time magic of this scale was attempted. But I fully acknowledge that that is opinion.

 

 

Totally on board with you there.   You know what doesn't make sense to me, though?   Solas is very clear that the use of blood magic makes it harder to enter the fade... and yet, that seems to be the only viable explanation we have for how Corypheus and co were able to do it. 

 

It's... I don't know.  Something about it doesn't sit right.  Maybe it required that much sacrifice for exactly that reason- because it was so contrary to what they were trying to do.  Or maybe we don't understand yet how they actually did it, and the massive blood rituals were all pointless, failed attempts.    It's one of the pieces that doesn't fit quite right to me.  

 

We had a convenient loophole back when the theoretical timeline assumed Solas passed him the Orb in ancient Tevinter, but that theory's long abandoned.    Leading him to it twice is absurd if not impossible, given that it would most likely have been in Fen'Harel's possession during the battle for Arlathan... which in itself is problematic.  

 

This whole part just doesn't snap together like it should.  

[Avejajed]

Q: If the Maker is supposed to be somewhat representative of real life "God" and a symbolic reference to Christianity...

 

Who is the "Satan" of the story?

 

Is it referencing the old gods as a whole? Instead of one, many?

[madrar]

Alright then, here is the exact codex entry the wiki linked to:
 

It still remains true to the things we do know 1) Arlathan was already in decline, 2) the elves fled rather than fight, 3) Tevinter just buried the city. It was in many ways, already dead.

 

*shakes head*

 

We can't take any of that to mean "Tevinter buried the city".   It's a story from a Dalish elf, who says explicitly that neither he nor his people know exactly what happened to Arlathan.  The original story was lost, like so much else, in the subsequent civil war and extensive period of oral history that followed.

[Eivuwan]

Q: If the Maker is supposed to be somewhat representative of real life "God" and a symbolic reference to Christianity...

 

Who is the "Satan" of the story?

 

Is it referencing the old gods as a whole? Instead of one, many?

 

Lucy the dragon.

[Avejajed]

Totally on board with you there.   You know what doesn't make sense to me, though?   Solas is very clear that the use of blood magic makes it harder to enter the fade... and yet, that seems to be the only viable explanation for how Corypheus and co were able to do it. 

 

It's... I don't know.  Something about it doesn't sit right.  Maybe it required that much sacrifice for exactly that reason- because it was so contrary to what they were trying to do.  Or maybe we don't understand yet how they actually did it, and the massive blood rituals were all pointless, failed attempts.    It's one of the pieces that doesn't fit quite right to me.  

 

So the entire city created specifically as a giant slave-butchering block of blood magic- was all created by those particular magisters in order to get into the fade? Makes Kirkwall pretty old, no?

[electricfish]

Q: If the Maker is supposed to be somewhat representative of real life "God" and a symbolic reference to Christianity...

 

Who is the "Satan" of the story?

 

Is it referencing the old gods as a whole? Instead of one, many?

 

There...isn't really. Not a direct analogue, anyway. It could be Maferath, who betrayed Andraste in jealousy. It could be the Old Gods, who tempted the old Imperium mages from the path and set them to break into the Golden City. I don't remember if that occurred before or after Andraste rose with her army.

 

In the Andrastean religion, there isn't a specific figure who rebels against the Maker first and then causes destruction and violence. His first children were spirits, and because of their somewhat more simple natures there weren't any demons until he created humans. There isn't a demon that is like Satan, and supposedly no spirit has any knowledge of the Maker or who/what it could be.

[electricfish]

So the entire city created specifically as a giant slave-butchering block of blood magic- was all created by those particular magisters in order to get into the fade? Makes Kirkwall pretty old, no?

 

IIRC, Kirkwall is supposed to be close to 1000 years old. It's an old, old city. I'll have to find where I read that from to make sure I've got the time frame right.

[Rabbitonfire]

Q: If the Maker is supposed to be somewhat representative of real life "God" and a symbolic reference to Christianity...

 

Who is the "Satan" of the story?

 

Is it referencing the old gods as a whole? Instead of one, many?

Well... Don't know about the maker but Andraste is a jesus if he was Joan of Arc. Catholicism, not Christianity. 

 

Depends on what aspect you are looking for from Satan. Is it falling from being a favorite of god? Is it giving power to humans and susceptible them into unvirtuous acts such as pride? 

[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[Avejajed]

IIRC, Kirkwall is supposed to be close to 1000 years old. It's an old, old city. I'll have to find where I read that from to make sure I've got the time frame right.

 

I guess for some reason I knew it was old but not ancient old.

 

But obviously it would make sense.

[Avejajed]

Well... Don't know about the maker but Andraste is a jesus if he was Joan of Arc. Catholicism, not Christianity. 

 

Depends on what aspect you are looking for from Satan. Is it falling from being a favorite of god? Is it giving power to humans and susceptible them into unvirtuous acts such as pride? 

 

Nothing that specific. I'm really just rambling at this point.

 

I think the placeholder for "Satan" would be the old gods=sin.

 

Nevermind.

[Avejajed]

Definitely Solas. Well, if we're looking at Milton's Paradise Lost's depiction of Satan/Lucifer, definitely Solas.
 

Translated into Dragon Age:

Fen'Harel during the age of Arlathan was deeply prideful, albeit powerful and charismatic. Fen'Harel's persuasive powers are evident throughout the lore; not only is he cunning and deceptive, but he is also able to rally the slaves of the Elvenhan Empire to continue in their rebellion despite their agonising defeats against the Dreamer Nobility. He argues that certain members of the Elven Pantheon and Elvenhan Dreamers rule as a tyrants and that all the People ought to rule be able to rule themselves, have free will, and be free from slavery. Though commonly understood to be the antagonizing force in the Fall of Arlathan, Fen'Harel may be best defined as a tragic or Hellenic hero. According to William McCollom, one quality of the classical tragic hero is that he is not perfectly good and that his defeat is caused by a tragic flaw. As Fen'Harel causes both the downfall of the elves  and the eternal damnation of his fellow Elven Gods despite his dedication to his comrades, Fen'Harel is perhaps an ur-example of the trope. In addition, Fen'Harel’s Hellenic qualities, such as his immense courage and perhaps lack of completely defined morals compound on his tragic nature.

 

Oh god.    

[jellobell]

I don't know who would be Kelemvor! D: Vivienne? She's the most neutral party member and very status quo unless pushed. Ammon Jerro would probably be Leliana. Hardened pragmatist who lost their faith, especially since we killed the granddaughter Divine.

 

<edit> Hasn't been a screenshot in awhile. Here's one of old looking Solas. Currently telling the rest of the party to buckle up because things goin' get fascinatin' real quick.

 

-snip-

I freaking love how Solas goes all Miss Frizzle when you get to the Fade. "Prepare for what is sure to be a fascinating experience". He's so excited. It was even more hilarious in my playthrough because I took Iron Bull and Cole, so the only person who was happy to be there was Solas.

[TanisLave]

solass

 

kinda aggressive LOOKIN SO SPOILERS? by http://otherwolves.t...ed-said-for-him

Spoiler

[Mims]

About the sinking of Arlathan. While records are sketchy, we do know that Tevinter also take credit for the sacking and sinking of Arlathan. 

 

This led the Imperium to declare war on 214 TE. Six years later, the magisters invaded Arlathan, the elven homeland, and destroyed it by sinking the city to the ground with blood magic.

 

According to this [which comes from a guidebook not the codex], it took six years for the Tevinter to crush the remaining elves, take what they needed, and then sink the city. Its certainly possible they could all be lying, but I doubt it. The elves still delivered themselves the kill blow. 

 

 

Q: If the Maker is supposed to be somewhat representative of real life "God" and a symbolic reference to Christianity...

 

Who is the "Satan" of the story?

 

Is it referencing the old gods as a whole? Instead of one, many?

 

As for this- while the chantry is influenced by catholicism, that doesn't mean it requires a satan. Nor should it. There are many religions that don't have an analogous rival for their god. 

[Avejajed]

solass

 

kinda aggressive LOOKIN SO SPOILERS?

Spoiler

 

Do want.

[Avejajed]

 

 

As for this- while the chantry is influenced by catholicism, that doesn't mean it requires a satan. Not should it. There are many religions that don't have an analogous rival for their god. 

 

Oh yeah, of course. I just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed an important connection/figure.

[madrar]

So the entire city created specifically as a giant slave-butchering block of blood magic- was all created by those particular magisters in order to get into the fade? Makes Kirkwall pretty old, no?

 

Sure does.  I'm definitely willing to chalk it up as an ancient-Tevinter-era attempt to do something absolutely massive, though not convinced it was what actually worked to break Corypheus and co into the fade.  The blood magic = counter to fade idea from Solas makes me think it's an enormous red herring, but I could be totally wrong.  That whole time period is really weak and shaky in my head.  

[Avejajed]

Sure does.  I'm definitely willing to chalk it up as an ancient-Tevinter-era attempt to do something absolutely massive, though not convinced it was what actually worked to break Corypheus and co into the fade.  The blood magic = counter to fade idea from Solas makes me think it's an enormous red herring, but I could be totally wrong.  That whole time period is really weak and shaky in my head.  

 

I'm just wondering what's so special about Kirkwall that it's created specifically for such a large ritual.

 

Except that it sits on top of an ancient primeval thaig filled with red lyrium.

[dragondreamer]

*shakes head*

 

We can't take any of that to mean "Tevinter buried the city".   It's a story from a Dalish elf, who says explicitly that neither he nor his people know exactly what happened to Arlathan.  The original story was lost, like so much else, in the subsequent civil war and extensive period of oral history that followed..  

 

From the World of Thedas timeline:

 

-981 Ancient : Tensions between Tevinter and the elves turn to open war.  The Imperium besieges Arlathan.

 

-975 Ancient: The years-long siege of Arlathan ends when Tevinter is said to sink the city into the ground using blood magic.  Surviving elves are enslaved.

 

We also know that elves from Arlathan made their last stand against Tevinter on Sundermount.  Fenris will talk about that, who likely didn't learn about it from Dalish elves.  (It's very interesting that they would run there of all places.)  Refugees from Arlathan tried to hide in old Cadash thaig, but Kal'Sharok destroyed it because the dwarves were allied with Tevinter, and they didn't want them finding out they were sheltering elves.  There's enough history surrounding events to say that certain things happened, we just didn't know the details about what happened within Arlathan itself and how that led to the fall.

[HurricaneGinger]

As a person in Interactive Media ... Writers think too much, middle man translates for us. 

 

Yes, yes we do. My professors nearly had to beat me over the head for putting too much detail in my essays and "short" stories. Even with my most recent fanfiction, 90% of the time was spent over-thinking.