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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#53376
madrar

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From the World of Thedas timeline:

 

-981 Ancient : Tensions between Tevinter and the elves turn to open war.  The Imperium besieges Arlathan.

 

-975 Ancient: The years-long siege of Arlathan ends when Tevinter is said to sink the city into the ground using blood magic.  Surviving elves are enslaved.

 

We also know that elves from Arlathan made their last stand against Tevinter on Sundermount.  Fenris will talk about that, who likely didn't learn about it from Dalish elves.  (It's very interesting that they would run there of all places.)  Refugees from Arlathan tried to hide in old Cadash thaig, but Kal'Sharok destroyed it because the dwarves were allied with Tevinter, and they didn't want them finding out they were sheltering elves.  There's enough history surrounding events to say that certain things happened, we just didn't know the details about what happened within Arlathan itself and how that led to the fall.

 

So the city definitely existed as a place when the humans swept in?   Really?  That's unfortunate.  I was so on board with the Fen'Harel-time-space-bubble: it solved so many problems.  The "is said to" still reads to me like lampshading, but not nearly enough for Arlathan to disappear wholesale.  

 

Maybe part of it... no, that's far too complicated to be satisfying.  

 

blurgh.  Assuming this isn't just Tevinter propaganda being presented as history, looks like it's time to scrap the whole thing and start over.  



#53377
Suketchi

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Same  :lol:. He showered my Lavellan with approval, to the point where I started taking it fore granted. And then the wardens happened, and I was shocked. And pleased too, in a way. They finally disagreed on something, phew.

 

Haven't gotten drunken Cassandra yet. Is it as hilarious as it sounds?

 

I never get any angry companion conversations, they sound fun. Especially drunk Cassandra XD Solas didn't even yell at me after I sided with the Wardens, it was very frustrating. It skipped his dialogue cut scene or something. Has anyone else had that bug? 



#53378
electricfish

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I never get any angry companion conversations, they sound fun. Especially drunk Cassandra XD Solas didn't even yell at me after I sided with the Wardens, it was very frustrating. It skipped his dialogue cut scene or something. Has anyone else had that bug? 

He doesn't actually have anything significant to say. You just get the regular conversation where he rants a bit about the stupidity of their actions, and you can heart option to soothe him saying "It's good we stopped them."



#53379
Mims

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I never get any angry companion conversations, they sound fun. Especially drunk Cassandra XD Solas didn't even yell at me after I sided with the Wardens, it was very frustrating. It skipped his dialogue cut scene or something. Has anyone else had that bug? 

 

He only yells about the wardens at max disapproval. Basically, when you hit his disapproval 'trigger', the game then shows a cutscene of Solas yelling at you. As he does, he'll go through each plot flag that he disagreed with. 

 

So just siding with the wardens isn't enough to make him mad. Its when you side with the wardens, side with the templars, act as though you truly are the herald of Andraste and your powers are divine... that's when Solas can't take it anymore. 

 

What I quite like about his disapproval dialogue is that a lot of what he says seems to also be aimed at himself, in particular the god worship portion. 


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#53380
bunniebean

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I guess the obvious question is, which world state was loaded into the Keep last? If you reupload a world state to DAI, it won't take effect until the next new game you start. So, if you loaded the state in Keep and saw you lacked a Dark ritual, then yes you're kind of SOL.  

On the other hand, it could be a bug and K will show up later as intended. I'd play a bit more, maybe finish a quest or two before going back to Skyhold and looking around for him.

Thanks a million, i think you're right though. Im sol. I tried that last sentence there but nothing. Oh well, i will take your advice and keep playing though!



#53381
tsunamitigerdragon

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#53382
k_drake

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Also... someone should totally ask Weekes on Twitter if Solas/Fen'Harel is Milton's Satan or Greek Mythology's Prometheus. WE NEED TO KNOW. So we can buy kleenex in bulk in advance.

EDIT: But then we might just be giving him ideas... Aghhhhghghg

It's rather silly, but I desperately want to know which mythologies Patrick Weekes is mostly familiar w/.  "Have you read The Marriage of Cadmus and Harmony??" I long to ask him.  I'm also convinced that there's a strong resemblance btwn Fen'harel and the Coyote of Native American/Canadian legend.  And not just b/c they're both canids.  



#53383
jellobell

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I don't know if it's been pointed out before, but Kirkwall's supposed symbol of slave rebellion looks an awful lot like the High Dragon constellation. This symbol later evolved into the "formal" one we saw all over Hightown in DA2. Seems rather suspicious that the symbol of (possibly) one of the Old Gods was used to rally slaves into rebelling.

 

City_of_Chains_heraldry_DA2.png

Alright, I really love this theory; that a symbol of Mythal was re-interpreted into a symbol of rebellion, perhaps because of her association with Fen'harel. Or maybe because Mythal's murder was what prompted Fen'harel to rebel. I usually don't like basing theories off of art assets, but this seems pretty solid. And it's got that "kernel of truth" quality that Dragon Age loves playing around with.

 

Ha! Went back to Solas's room because I thought I spotted something, and I was right. In the bucket at the top of his scaffold thing is a rolled paper of some sort with the dragon symbol on it. Cool easter egg.

 

Spoiler


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#53384
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I should also add that my Lavellan was able to have the "romance talk" with Solas after his romance scene where she can ask about what happened, too.  He'll also cease to call her Lethallan and grows more distant afterwards by calling her Inquisitor.

 

Overall, it made for an interesting story to headcanon around.  I won't go so far as to say it's an ideal situation--she's basically two timing them with no consequence--but I imagined that she was in a committed relationship with Cullen but just had a really close friendship with Solas where they had feelings for each other but knew it couldn't work.  Solas tried to keep his distance after the balcony kiss but it was before their final battle that he caved in to kiss her once more.  It isn't for everyone, but it works well enough to explain a bug :P

 

Thank you for the suggestion, but I don't want to two-time Solas. =(


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#53385
Mims

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Alright, I really love this theory; that a symbol of Mythal was re-interpreted into a symbol of rebellion, perhaps because of her association with Fen'harel. Or maybe because Mythal's murder was what prompted Fen'harel to rebel. I usually don't like basing theories off of art assets, but this seems pretty solid. And it's got that "kernel of truth" quality that Dragon Age loves playing around with.

 

Ha! Went back to Solas's room because I thought I spotted something, and I was right. In the bucket at the top of his scaffold thing is a rolled paper of some sort with the dragon symbol on it. Cool easter egg.

 

Spoiler

 

Wow. As skeptical as I am about art assets, that's just compelling. All of this is just too much to be accidental. There are rolled scrolls without that symbol they could have thrown into the bucket just to 'fill' it with something. To have it repeated over and over and added in to the context of rebellion and slavery...it has to have some connection to Fen'Harel or Mythal.


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#53386
TheComfyCat

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He only yells about the wardens at max disapproval. Basically, when you hit his disapproval 'trigger', the game then shows a cutscene of Solas yelling at you. As he does, he'll go through each plot flag that he disagreed with. 

 

So just siding with the wardens isn't enough to make him mad. Its when you side with the wardens, side with the templars, act as though you truly are the herald of Andraste and your powers are divine... that's when Solas can't take it anymore. 

 

What I quite like about his disapproval dialogue is that a lot of what he says seems to also be aimed at himself, in particular the god worship portion. 

 

Yes, I also noticed that sometimes he's projecting during conversations. Or his dialogue is actually about himself, but he frames it so that you think he's talking about others. 

 

Like the conversation during Cole's personal quest, Solas says "we cannot change our nature by wishing." Although he's talking about Cole, he's probably also thinking/ talking about himself. Or his "I distracted you from your duty," which seems to mean "you distracted me from my duty." And other examples are more obvious, like his whole, "what if you wake up to find the future you shaped is worse than what was?" when he's speaking with the inquisitor after the Temple of Mythal.


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#53387
vierrae

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Alright, I really love this theory; that a symbol of Mythal was re-interpreted into a symbol of rebellion, perhaps because of her association with Fen'harel. Or maybe because Mythal's murder was what prompted Fen'harel to rebel. I usually don't like basing theories off of art assets, but this seems pretty solid. And it's got that "kernel of truth" quality that Dragon Age loves playing around with.

 

Ha! Went back to Solas's room because I thought I spotted something, and I was right. In the bucket at the top of his scaffold thing is a rolled paper of some sort with the dragon symbol on it. Cool easter egg.

 

Spoiler

Fractured my thumb on "like" button. You're so good!



#53388
Kappa Neko

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I am 110% behind this. I know it's what I argue for all the time on this forum and I get that not everyone is going to agree with me here, but the humanization of deity is a central theme to DA:I. The more you believe in your own mysticism and godhood, the more out of touch with reality and power hungry you become. The more power you obtain? The more proof that God/ the Maker is behind you. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy bound in nothing but pride and obsession. It will result in nothing but terror and disaster. Andruil and Falon'Din are the most fitting examples of self-delusion and lust for power.

The more detached and critical you are, the more you are capable of seeing the truth. That others contribute to your success, that your power isn't your's alone. If anything, you could see yourself more as a pawn used by others for position and status. Or even bait - you become the focus, drawing it away from the true players of the game (here's looking at YOU, Solas). You are nothing but a distraction to the aeons long war you've stumbled upon by nothing but chance. Who knows, maybe even the elven gods were nothing but chess pieces in a much larger game we have yet to see or realize.
 

Yeah, that is what I thought too. Even Solas says so.

The "gods" sound like powerful mages who created their own godhood. Like Corypheus. He symbolizes this arrogance.

If somebody claims to be a god you can be pretty certain they are not. If somebody claims to speak for god, just as bad. Run for the hills! *g* It's probably the oldest excuse in the world for tyranny. "God told me to do this."

Interesting that Solas seems to make no such claims. But maybe he *is* Satan then after all. What was that again? "The greatest trick of the devil is to convince you that he doesn't exist." :P

 

However, there is always a ton of spirituality in Bioware games. They take all the wisdom from various religions and retell mankind's oldest tale in their games. What is human nature and what is god? So yes, you can compare characters like Solas to various religious and mythological concepts like Satan or any archetype in literature. Bioware knows them all. Most stories can be broken down into the same few elements. If I had a better memory and deeper knowledge on literary tropes, I could give a more detailed reference. But I'm sure most of you know what I mean.

 

 

Given his role in the reincarnation cycle of elves, there's no doubt in my mind Solas knows who and what Sandal is, and Sera as well.  His prodding throughout the game isn't pointlessly needling her: he's trying to probe to determine exactly how much Andruil is still left in there- whether she can reconnect to a larger part of what she once was.  

So, how does this work then exactly? How does an OGS interact with their host? What makes the difference between somebody like Solas or Flemeth who are fully aware gods who just wear the face of a mortal and Sera on the other hand who's OGS is asleep? Apparently body hopping does not automatically make them assume complete control then. So what needs to happen? Does it depends on how big a part of the OGS is put into somebody? I struggle with understanding this if your theory is true. And would Sandal be like Sera, unaware? Or fully aware and the dumb boy stuff is just a mask?

How many of the gods are still even sealed away then? Or are only aspects of them walking Thedas? And to gain their powers in full they need to merge all part of their souls together again? But part of all the gods are still locked? Sorry if you elaborated on all that already, I'm still catching up...

 



#53389
madrar

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Totally on board with you there.   You know what doesn't make sense to me, though?   Solas is very clear that the use of blood magic makes it harder to enter the fade... and yet, that seems to be the only viable explanation we have for how Corypheus and co were able to do it. 

 

It's... I don't know.  Something about it doesn't sit right.  Maybe it required that much sacrifice for exactly that reason- because it was so contrary to what they were trying to do.  Or maybe we don't understand yet how they actually did it, and the massive blood rituals were all pointless, failed attempts.    It's one of the pieces that doesn't fit quite right to me.  

 

We had a convenient loophole back when the theoretical timeline assumed Solas passed him the Orb in ancient Tevinter, but that theory's long abandoned.    Leading him to it twice is absurd if not impossible, given that it would most likely have been in Fen'Harel's possession during the battle for Arlathan... which in itself is problematic.  

 

This whole part just doesn't snap together like it should.  

 

Wait a second.  I hate quoting myself, but I am an idiot.  

 

Maybe my brain is just totally fried at this point, but Corypheus and his team never entered the fade physically.   They created a route- by massive blood magic- to the physical City, not its Fade reflection.  

 

That's the only thing that makes sense, right?  Or did my brain just melt?  Because that's where the actual, physical OGS dragons would have been... where Dirthamen-as-Dumat would have physically been to be tainted and woken, and why the rest of his "team" is still down in the Dark Roads.  

 

I have no idea why I was thinking about it the other way around.  That makes no sense at all.  Apologies to anyone I might have confused with the earlier post- my brain was just skipping over the inherent contradiction for some reason.

 

So no conflict with blood magic, then, because Corypheus fundamentally misunderstood what he was doing, and where the path was actually leading.  He may not have even realized that the City existed as two distinct but mirrored places- he just knew when he got there that it looked like the City he'd seen in his dreams.  

 

He thinks he managed it, but my head hurts from how inherently contradictory his actually breaking into the fade would be.  

 

Right?  Am I way off here?


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#53390
TheComfyCat

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And by the way, did anyone else find this part of the conversation (after the Temple of Mythal) particularly ominous?

 

Solas: You have not been what I expected, Inquisitor. You have impressed me. You have offered hope that if one keeps trying, even if the consequences are grave, that some day things will be better.

 

Always makes me nervous when I hear him say that.


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#53391
tsunamitigerdragon

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.



#53392
Mims

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And by the way, did anyone else find this part of the conversation (after the Temple of Mythal) particularly ominous?

 

Solas: You have not been what I expected, Inquisitor. You have impressed me. You have offered hope that if one keeps trying, even if the consequences are grave, that some day things will be better.

 

Always makes me nervous when I hear him say that.

 

Somewhere in the west:

 

Hawke: I don't know about this plan, Solas. Everything is on fire. 

Solas: My girlfriend said that if we keep trying, eventually it'll turn out alright. 

Hawke: That's brilliant! More fire. It'll stop the other fire. 


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#53393
vierrae

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Any preferences on hair colors for the members of the pantheon? Definitely think Sylaise will be some form of redhead. Andruil could go blonde or brown for me, I don't much mind. Ghilal'nain is white haired due to lore/ canon. Fen'Harel/Solas is a ginger-brunette (look at his cute eyebrows! that's totally his hair color). I'd probably push Dirthamen into raven-black. 

Everyone is fair game and I'd love your guy's opinions.

And I'm unsure how much if at all I should change Mythal's character design from Flemythal's. Definitely would make her younger for sure, but I'm unsure about hair color, dragon hair horns, color palette etc. I think Morrigan tells the Warden that her mother had dark hair like her's when she was younger, but again, that's Flemythal not Mythal. Wolf pack! Direct me!

All of the pantheon are portraited as bald, but according to codex you may be right. What about Falon'Din? Also raven-black?



#53394
TheComfyCat

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Somewhere in the west:

 

Hawke: I don't know about this plan, Solas. Everything is on fire. 

Solas: My girlfriend said that if we keep trying, eventually it'll turn out alright. 

Hawke: That's brilliant! More fire. It'll stop the other fire. 

 

Inquisitor shows up

 

2UPFfuU.gif

 

You made this gif even more relevant, lol


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#53395
Mims

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Inquisitor shows up

 

 

 

You made this gif even more relevant, lol

 

Whyyy am I out of likes.

 

This gif will never not be my favorite Solas catastrophe reenactment. 



#53396
tsunamitigerdragon

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#53397
jellobell

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Any preferences on hair colors for the members of the pantheon? Definitely think Sylaise will be some form of redhead. Andruil could go blonde or brown for me, I don't much mind. Ghilal'nain is white haired due to lore/ canon. Fen'Harel/Solas is a ginger-brunette (look at his cute eyebrows! that's totally his hair color). I'd probably push Dirthamen into raven-black. 

Everyone is fair game and I'd love your guy's opinions.

And I'm unsure how much if at all I should change Mythal's character design from Flemythal's. Definitely would make her younger for sure, but I'm unsure about hair color, dragon hair horns, color palette etc. I think Morrigan tells the Warden that her mother had dark hair like her's when she was younger, but again, that's Flemythal not Mythal. Wolf pack! Direct me!

Those sound good. Agreed on black hair for Dirthamen. Black hair for Falon'din as well. Even if they weren't blood relatives, it would symbolize their connection if they looked similar. I'd say brown for Andruil. Colour of the hawk and hare.

 

Also, re: June, dwarves, and beards. Solas in a banter with Blackwall said that elves can indeed grow beards. Personally, I don't think June was a dwarf. Needlessly complicated. Plus, I doubt Solas would interact with Varric like he does if one of the pantheon had been a dwarf. I can definitely see June having a beard, though. I also don't think the anvil/short arms in the mosaic overrides the fact that he has pointy ears.


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#53398
Mims

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Yeahhhh I get that they're all bald in the mosaics... But bald would be shape-repetitive for all nine of them and I fight it! I fight it with every fiber of my being! And Fen'Harel is totally getting his early character design side-shave-dread-pony tail. It just suits him at that age/ point in life. 

Hmm... I think Falon'Din as his twin-soul might have something lighter so they bounce off one another, and seeing as they're not blood-related, don't have to look alike. But I'm cool with raven-black there too!

 

I support hair! If I ever get around to drawing them, I'd definitely go nuts with the hairstyles. I'm sure any hair color would be fabulous. I suppose if I saw any of them with specific haircolors, Elgar'nan might be blonde with the connection the sun. Possibly Andruil as well, sort of a bright, shining madness. Gold/blonde also looks really nice with red if you are adding the lyrium to her armor. 



#53399
Suketchi

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He doesn't actually have anything significant to say. You just get the regular conversation where he rants a bit about the stupidity of their actions, and you can heart option to soothe him saying "It's good we stopped them."

 

Ah, I see. I guess I didn't miss out (haha, almost typed 'make out' lol) on too much.   

 

He only yells about the wardens at max disapproval. Basically, when you hit his disapproval 'trigger', the game then shows a cutscene of Solas yelling at you. As he does, he'll go through each plot flag that he disagreed with. 

 

So just siding with the wardens isn't enough to make him mad. Its when you side with the wardens, side with the templars, act as though you truly are the herald of Andraste and your powers are divine... that's when Solas can't take it anymore. 

 

What I quite like about his disapproval dialogue is that a lot of what he says seems to also be aimed at himself, in particular the god worship portion. 

 

I'm going to have to look that scene up on youtube, it sounds really interesting... only without the punching him in the face part, I heard someone say you could punch him O_O But I like hearing his disapproval discussions, it gives you an insight into his past that you wouldn't hear otherwise.

 

Solas seems to project a lot, I go back and think about his conversations with Lavellan and the other companions, and can totally see where he's actually talking about himself and the mistakes he's made. Its so sad, poor Solas T_T 



#53400
vierrae

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Yeahhhh I get that they're all bald in the mosaics... But bald would be shape-repetitive for all nine of them and I fight it! I fight it with every fiber of my being! And Fen'Harel is totally getting his early character design side-shave-dread-pony tail. It just suits him at that age/ point in life. 

Hmm... I think Falon'Din as his twin-soul might have something lighter so they bounce off one another, and seeing as they're not blood-related, don't have to look alike. But I'm cool with raven-black there too!

Then, if he bounces off his soul-twin, I can think of light and darkness parallel, so he'd be platinum blonde