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[Lady Luminous]

I let him kill those mages because that guy's face really annoyed me.

 

So the whole 'bad' Solas thing doesn't bother me all that much, because I know, deep down in my heart...

 

That I am always going to be way way worse than him.

 

 

oh come on, that mage was annoying. He totally deserved it. I'm not that much of a sociopath. Honest.

 

Don't worry, I'm totally in the same boat. Someone that moronic shouldn't be allowed to live; they'll just end up torturing another spirit or unleashing something even worse!

[Avejajed]

I let him kill those mages because that guy's face really annoyed me.

 

So the whole 'bad' Solas thing doesn't bother me all that much, because I know, deep down in my heart...

 

That I am always going to be way way worse than him.

 

 

oh come on, that mage was annoying. He totally deserved it. I'm not that much of a sociopath. Honest.

 

Here, take every like I have.

[AzureNika]

Ooooooh I like hypothetical questions. I, unfortunately, am a very selfish person so I would probably save the one I love even if my decision ends up running our relationship. But if these strangers had an important role or value to the wellbeing of the whole of society or the world then I can see myself going for them instead. Too many variables really so a straight up answer wouldn't do it justice, there is no right answer here. It all really depends. 

 

Like I said before once somewhere else, I'm a horrible person maybe, but I really like Solas, his pain and weight of all those mistakes just ruins me so if genocide is the only way to give him a bit of happiness and stay with Lavellan then forgive me but **** Thedas.  I'm ready to be bashed. Also... how do I quote people? I'm kinda mostly been lurking idk how this works. *is stupid*

[flabbadence]

Don't mind me..

 

Oh wow when they said jittery, I didn't think that jittery

[eltharinka]

Don't mind me..

Poor Solas, so difficult to cover strain and stress

[HayleyDawn]

All I know is I need more Solas. I'll stick with him if he's evil. Whatever. haha

 

I'm this close to making a flash game for myself in which there is a happy ending, just for my own sanity. hahaha

[BlueElf2]

 

I usually stay away from topics like this , so I don't say something that offend or hurt someone. But I have to say this. Him killing these mages is straight up murder ,IMO. He does like to dispense justice as he sees fit, but these mages...he looked straight at them and killed them. I doesn't feel right. They didn't summon the spirit to torture information out of her, or to do some sinister ritual. They needed protection. They were ignorant , true, but they didn't deserve to be murdered.

Killing Howe is another story . His intent was evil, born of greed and jealousy, he was a horrible person,a traitor and a killer. Vengeance upon him was justified. 

 

I have yet to actually let Solas kill the mages in any of my playthroughs, but while it is murder (all vengeance is), I can understand where he's coming from. One of his oldest friends just died as a direct result of their stupidity; I can completely understand wanting vengeance for that. I usually have him stop, though, because he's generally a very level-headed, thoughtful individual, and I don't feel comfortable encouraging him to rain vengeance down on everyone who makes him angry even if in this instance, I actually feel that it could be justified under certain viewpoints (Solas certainly sees it as justified).

 

Now, if I were playing my canon Warden....she was very much on the vengeance train (from what I remember), but she was a city elf so had plenty of reasons IMO. I tend to play my female Lavellans more try all options that don't result in execution/murder first...except for totally murder knifing that one guy from Adamant because I was mad about having to pick between Hawke and Alistair in the Fade...so I took a little vengeance in my first game. In hindsight, I should've probably been more open to Solas frying the idiot mages considering my own vengeance execution later on, but meh. LOL. Also, those were Kirkwall mages, so maybe their stupidity is not really curable? I mean, I still facepalm about what Orsino did even after I sided with the mages. Kirkwall mages, what is wrong with you?! *shakes fist*

[Mims]

Ok all this talk made me curious. SoI drew up a test. No right or wrong answer, of course. Just what you value the most.

 

You are placed in a situation where you have to decide which direction the train should do with the pull of a lever. One the left are a group of people you have no connection to. Strangers. On the right, is the person that you love the most. Would you switch the lever to save your loved one or save people that you don't know? 

 

 

I can't ever see scenarios like this and not think of the 'passengers on a boat' scene from fate/zero.

 

Spoilers for Fate/Zero:

 

Spoiler

Essentially, the character Kiritsugu comes in contact with a magical device capable of granting his wish. He's killed a lot of people to get to this magical device, hoping that the ends will justify the means. He saves the majority every time, throwing aside those he loves in favor of the greater good.

 

The device posits a question for him. What if there are two boats, and both are sinking. Who does he save? The one with the most passengers, obviously. He saves the sinking boat, but it continues to sink. Only a certain amount of passengers can fit in the life boats. Who does he save? The one with the most passengers.

 

It keeps going and going. Eventually, the amount of people he's killed for the greater good completely abolishes anything he had been attempting to accomplished.

 

I could definitely see Solas getting hit with that realization. 

 

[ If people are interested, here's a link to the scene. It is a bit violent and out of context though. ]

[DraconisWolf]

 

Ok all this talk made me curious. So I drew up a test. No right or wrong answer, of course. Just what you value the most. Please ignore the train distance, it's actually not as close as it seems.

 

You are placed in a situation where you have to decide which direction the train should go with the pull of a lever. One the left are a group of people you have no connection to. Strangers. On the right, is the person that you love the most. Would you switch the lever to save your loved one or save people that you don't know? 

Spoiler

 

 

edit: this isn't a solas thing. This is a psychological thing. 

Can I jump infront of the train to stop it from going further?

[NeverlandHunter]

Ok all this talk made me curious. So I drew up a test. No right or wrong answer, of course. Just what you value the most. Please ignore the train distance, it's actually not as close as it seems.

You are placed in a situation where you have to decide which direction the train should go with the pull of a lever. One the left are a group of people you have no connection to. Strangers. On the right, is the person that you love the most. Would you switch the lever to save your loved one or save people that you don't know?

Spoiler

edit: this isn't a solas thing. This is a psychological thing.

The trolley dilemma?
I heard it first like this--A train is heading towards four people tied to the track, you can switch the lever, causing the train to go onto a track with just one person tied. What do you do?

Oops. I just noticed someone else posted this and worded it a lot better than I did.

My answer is allow the multiple people to die. If you switch the lever you ate actively killing that person, while leaving it is just doing nothing.

Modifié par NeverlandHunter, 13 janvier 2015 - 05:44 .

[CapricornSun]

Ok all this talk made me curious. So I drew up a test. No right or wrong answer, of course. Just what you value the most. Please ignore the train distance, it's actually not as close as it seems.

 

You are placed in a situation where you have to decide which direction the train should go with the pull of a lever. One the left are a group of people you have no connection to. Strangers. On the right, is the person that you love the most. Would you switch the lever to save your loved one or save people that you don't know? 

Spoiler

 

 

edit: this isn't a solas thing. This is a psychological thing. 

 

For me, I'd save my loved one. No doubt about it. I hold my loved ones close to my heart. Sorry to the group of strangers though. I'm a selfish person.

 

In the context of Dragon Age though, that would depend.

[AzureNika]

Y'all post at the speed of light, my gOD.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[BlueElf2]

I let him kill those mages because that guy's face really annoyed me.

 

So the whole 'bad' Solas thing doesn't bother me all that much, because I know, deep down in my heart...

 

That I am always going to be way way worse than him.

 

 

oh come on, that mage was annoying. He totally deserved it. I'm not that much of a sociopath. Honest.

Feels good to be so bad?

[Sylvanfeather]

I let him kill those mages because that guy's face really annoyed me.

 

I refer to that guy as Mr. Potato Head, looks exactly like him.

 

And, I completely let Solas kill the mages as I wasn't stopping any of my followers (except Cole!) from killing people. The Inquisitor had her own problems, so she just deferred to people to make their own choices.

 

Plus with the mages, I believe they would have died to the bandits if they hadn't summoned the spirit. So technically, they still met the same fate in the end either way, but their stupidity took a spirit with them.

[DragonRacer]

I'm not really saying Solas should kill the mages. Just that I don't see why it isn't justifiable if he can't. If my sister, for example, had superpowers, and a band of terrified, desperate people decided to lock her up and torture her, change her into something she isn't to protect them, even if they were ignorant I would be hardpressed to find an excuse for their actions.

 

To me, sounds like the difference between a crime of passion and premeditated murder. Both technically count as murder, but the former (second degree murder) is usually considered a lesser crime with shorter punishment than the latter (first degree murder).

[Rabbitonfire]

With no other context, I'd say I'd save the loved one.
In Dragon Age, there's usually more context, though.

The heads of the 5 noble houses of Wycome: 2 with sizable military linage, one with social connections, a dwarven merchant family, and one with a title but no monetary assets. They are the most known supporting houses of the new elven council that now consists of members of the Clan Lavellan. Rivel houses and nobles from various Free March Cities-States have placed them on the tracks to the left. On the right tracks is Cole. Cole is at the moment is on the tracks and is being attempted to be killed by a mage due to not feeling like wearing the amulet to prevent this very problem. The mage attempting to kill Cole is standing on the tracks and too busy to notice the train. 

 

Which direction will you switch? 

 

Edit: I should probably make this tougher but I g2g. 

[flabbadence]

I wasn't calling him, specifically, racist. I was saying the, "You're not like -insert something here-!" line (that actual people use, very frequently) is pretty racist/sexist. 

 

Also, Solas's point of view doesn't seem to be changed at all during that scene...? It felt pretty, "You're an exception, everyone else is still -insert prejudiced views here-." to me. I'm gonna be replaying his romance again soon... maybe it'll feel different this time.

 

(I've found that most real-life examples of the "You're not like -insert something here-!" line is usually just a way for someone to say they think an individual is the sole exception to their racist or sexist views. "You're not like other women! Other women are -insert derogatory crap here-, but you're totally not!" etc.)

 

BUT ANYWAY... I wasn't looking spark a fight and/or heated debate over how racist/prejudiced Solas is or isn't, so I'm gonna bow out of this particular conversation now (especially since I'm already getting a headache just thinking about it). I'll leave you all with a nice Solas screenshot I got earlier today:

 

EDIT: I swear to god I hate making posts on this forum sometimes. I CAN'T GET RID OF THAT FIRST QUOTE THAT ISN'T A QUOTE.

 

I'm sorry if I sounded argumentative and you weren't looking for a debate  . Erm. I tend to do that sometimes. Really sorry.

 

 

I can't ever see scenarios like this and not think of the 'passengers on a boat' scene from fate/zero.

 

Spoilers for Fate/Zero:

 

Spoiler

Essentially, the character Kiritsugu comes in contact with a magical device capable of granting his wish. He's killed a lot of people to get to this magical device, hoping that the ends will justify the means. He saves the majority every time, throwing aside those he loves in favor of the greater good.

 

The device posits a question for him. What if there are two boats, and both are sinking. Who does he save? The one with the most passengers, obviously. He saves the sinking boat, but it continues to sink. Only a certain amount of passengers can fit in the life boats. Who does he save? The one with the most passengers.

 

It keeps going and going. Eventually, the amount of people he's killed for the greater good completely abolishes anything he had been attempting to accomplished.

 

I could definitely see Solas getting hit with that realization. 

 

[ If people are interested, here's a link to the scene. It is a bit violent and out of context though. ]

 

OH MY GOD FATE/ZERO. That anime slayed me, damn.

[madrar]

Agreed. I'd struggle with the decision, especially considering the person. If I knew the person I loved would NEVER forgive me for the choice I made, would be riddled with survivor's guilt for the rest of their lives, and in the process turn both of us into people we no longer loved... Yeah I'd save the other four people.

Ugh. I'm gonna have to sit on that. Because I think I'd hate myself if I chose the person I loved over the other four people who love and are loved in return - just by people I don't see.

 

We have no proof that Falon'Din is OR was free. Find me a codex entry or even a line in the text. Until I see it written with solid evidence from Gaider or Weekes, I cannot in good conscience entertain the idea. I'm all for theory-crafting like the next person, but to do so without references feels irresponsible. 

 

There's not going to be a codex on this for a very, very long time... if ever.  I wouldn't call theory-crafting beyond the scope of codex entries "irresponsible", as that seems like a bit of a loaded word, but it is certainly (-by definition-) circumstantial in nature.  

 

The timeline fits, the known skills and objectives of the entities in question fit, and this is currently my opinion, nothing more.  "Facts" as they exist within the DA Universe, are the sole domain of the Makers in Edmonton.  We can guess at them, based on what we're given, but I would never claim absolute certainty.

 

It was, in all honesty, a hypothetical question.  

[Avejajed]

Straight up murder. Hmmm.

 

I guess I'm down with murder then, since I straight up let Leliana kill whoever she wants, and I let Iron Bull basically kill a **** load of his own people, I let Cole and Cassandra both kill people who weren't even dead yet (even if it was out of mercy) and I literally walk around ALL DAY LONG putting arrows in people's faces. I don't stop to ask if they deserve it or not.

 

In a game that has at least 1/3 of it's major gameplay as combat, I can't even bat an eye at Solas ending some miserable mages existence.

[NeverlandHunter]

And I would like to say, call me selfish, but I would always always choose my loved one over for strangers. In fact, I don't know what number of people it would have to be for me not to choose my loved one. A country? Maybe if I had the responsibility as a leader to watch over those strangers. If not, my family always always always comes first.

[AzureNika]

The heads of the 5 noble houses of Wycome: 2 with sizable military linage, one with social connections, a dwarven merchant family, and one with a title but no monetary assets. They are the most known supporting houses of the new elven council that now consists of members of the Clan Lavellan. Rivel houses and nobles from various Free March Cities-States have placed them on the tracks to the left. On the right tracks is Cole. Cole is at the moment is on the tracks and is being attempted to be killed by a mage due to not feeling like wearing the amulet to prevent this very problem. The mage attempting to kill Cole is standing on the tracks and too busy to notice the train. 

 

Which direction will you switch?

Assuming that Cole's spirit abilities would probably give him more chances of surviving being run over by a high speed train and an evil mage is there who wouldn't i'd take my chances and direct it to him. At least in an attempt to kill a mage who could be a danger alone even worse if he could bind and corrupt Cole. That is taking into account that if i did otherwise i wouldn't save him in time or lack any power to battle a mage?

[flabbadence]

To me, sounds like the difference between a crime of passion and premeditated murder. Both technically count as murder, but the former (second degree murder) is usually considered a lesser crime with shorter punishment than the latter (first degree murder).

 

Yep, I think that's it. A crime of passion's easier for me to sympathize with. Premeditated murder... whoever was killed should have been a total ******* and really deserved it.

[DragonRacer]

Can I jump infront of the train to stop it from going further?

 

That would be my initial instinct as well.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

There's not going to be a codex on this for a very, very long time... if ever.  I wouldn't call theory-crafting outside direct linked codex entries "irresponsible", as that seems like a bit of a loaded word, but it is certainly (and necessarily) circumstantial in nature.  

 

The timeline fits, the known skills and objectives of the entities in question fit, and this is currently my opinion, nothing more.  "Facts" as they exist within the DA Universe, are the sole domain of the Makers in Edmonton.  We can guess at them, based on what we're given, but I would never claim absolute certainty.

I apologize if irresponsible was a loaded word, it wasn't meant to be. It's just every good scientific paper, every good english paper, every good literary analysis, every good new article has a source. Has references. Names. Dates. Quotes. If someone handed me a paper explaining the nature of life, the universe, and everything with no sources, I'd hand it right back to them. If a paper doesn't have a bibliography, end notes, or clearly referenced information it is solely opinion and I can't give it weight in good conscience.

You're free to believe or think or feel how you want. I have no issue with that. But me accepting something as true without sufficient evidence is irresponsible - ON MY PART. Not yours.