153429 réponses à ce sujet

[LliiraAnna]

Seems I missed the deep philosophical discussion!

 

At this point I'm about 95% sure Solas is going to be a villain so the only thing I can hope is that he's a compelling one and they don't make him act like a moron to directly go against how smart he's supposed to be. That's just lazy writing. However, I would advise being prepared for him to be involved in creating a lot more bloodshed.

 

Also, is it bad that I'd be willing to fight him just to see him go full Dread Wolf? I really hope he has a whole enormous wolf transformation and that it's as badass looking as the wolf on his non-romanced tarot card. I just really like wolves.

I don't think they are going to make him a straight villain. They went through all of the trouble of making him really nuanced and sympathetic. Whatever he'll be - he's unlikely to fall under the "stereotypical villain" category.

 

Besides, there were a lot of people in the DA games who did some nasty things - like Loghain, Architect, Anders, etc. - and you could let them live and in some cases even side with them. There's no reason for Solas to be handled differently. 

[BoscoBread]

Really confused on the fade scene, Since he says something like "Lets go somewhere else." Then you are in the fade, and Inky is going "wowhah we are in the faddee" and you wake up in your bedroom.

 

But another chat option has him saying you sought him out?.. Somehow? Why was he suddenly sleeping, Why are you in Haven. How do you contact him as a non-mage like that? 

 

That is super confusing to me. 

If you don't romance him, he actually tells you that you sought him out in your dreams to talk to him. So the scene where you walk up to him in the unpainted rotunda - you were actually sleeping.  He sort of assists you in building Haven from your mind, but he also comments that the anchor gives you incredible focus in the Fade.  Again, he only says this to a non-romanced Inquisitor.

 

 I've complained about this before - but you kind of lose some of the smarty-pants talk in favor of flirty options with this guy.  It leaves people a little confused. It's like 'Solas. I can be smart and still flirt with you. My brain werks good.'

[BlueElf2]

<--------This girl. And also Anders in DA2.

 

I should really learn to listen to Bioware LI's who say they're just going to hurt me. Cause they're never wrong  :crying:I

I did, too, but I did Fenris as my first romance in DA2, so I was already prepared for the Anders romance when I did it for my 2nd playthrough. LOL. I actually didn't really think Anders's romance was that sad, though, because Hawke still gets to stay with him at the end if she/he wants to. I didn't even get the option with Solas! *shakes fist*

 

Edit to add that I also did Alistair's romance in Origins, so I have had a pretty good mix of tragedy and happy (or happy-ish depending on circumstances) romances in my Bioware games. Alistair and my city elf Warden are still my favorite canon couple because they were the first, I guess; it was the first Bioware game I played. I will go through game hell to make sure they get their dang happy ending! I've worked hard for it.

[Vorathrad]

Alistair, Kaidan, Fenris, 1st Cullen then Solas.

Melikes fluff

ETA: actually in DA2 Anders > Fenris > Fenris sans angst cause I know he's coming back ^^

[TanisLave]

If you don't romance him, he actually tells you that you sought him out in your dreams to talk to him. So the scene where you walk up to him in the unpainted rotunda - you were actually sleeping.  He sort of assists you in building Haven from your mind, but he also comments that the anchor gives you incredible focus in the Fade.  Again, he only says this to a non-romanced Inquisitor.

 

 I've complained about this before - but you kind of lose some of the smarty-pants talk in favor of flirty options with this guy.  It leaves people a little confused. It's like 'Solas. I can be smart and still flirt with you. My brain werks good.'

 

My brain twerks good. 

[RynJ]

I don't think they are going to make him a straight villain. They went through all of the trouble of making him really nuanced and sympathetic. Whatever he'll be - he's unlikely to fall under the "stereotypical villain" category.

 

Besides, there were a lot of people in DA games who did some nasty things - like Loghain, Architect, Anders, etc. - and you could let them live and in some cases even side with them. There's no reason for Solas to be handled differently. 

 

I don't doubt that you'll be given the chance to let him live and they know better than to destroy all the complexity and sympathy towards his character. I just think he's not going to be a "good guy" in the future. Hopefully we have a chance to get him to change his mind in a way that isn't Loghain part 2 or something.

 

Edit for post below: Careful with the Anders bashing. There are fans of the character in this thread too who aren't going to appreciate it.

[BoscoBread]

I did, too, but I did Fenris as my first romance in DA2, so I was already prepared for the Anders romance when I did it for my 2nd playthrough. LOL. I actually didn't really think Anders's romance was that sad, though, because Hawke still gets to stay with him at the end if she/he wants to. I didn't even get the option with Solas! *shakes fist*

Ugh. Anders. I think the tragedy with Anders was not that he killed all those people but what the writers did to his character.  I romanced him because of Awakenings Anders and then you find out Justice gave him some sort of horrible personality-lobotomy which rendered him a whiny man-baby.  I think a knife to the back was the least you could do.

[vierrae]

Yet another one to cheer you up, guys. It's a coping mechanism, all right

http://shallete.tumb...st/104167610992

[Avejajed]

It's one of the other options, Besides the heart. 

 

Yes well my human was subconsciously in love with Solas, even if she ended up with Cullen. Makes sense.

[BlueElf2]

I don't think they are going to make him a straight villain. They went through all of the trouble of making him really nuanced and sympathetic. Whatever he'll be - he's unlikely to fall under the "stereotypical villain" category.

 

Besides, there were a lot of people in DA games who did some nasty things - like Loghain, Architect, Anders, etc. - and you could let them live and in some cases even side with them. There's no reason for Solas to be handled differently. 

Yeah, usually when they go to the trouble of making a sympathetic villain (at least in the past games), that person winds up being someone you can work to redeem or side with or otherwise someone that the game doesn't force the player to kill (though they have always given that option as well). I would hope that after all the build-up and characterization they did with Solas that he wouldn't be relegated to just some big bad evil entity with no hope of redemption or some kind of satisfactory conclusion. It may be that killing him is the best choice depending on how his story plays out, but I would like it to be a choice and not something the game forces the player to do to progress.

[BlueElf2]

Ugh. Anders. I think the tragedy with Anders was not that he killed all those people but what the writers did to his character.  I romanced him because of Awakenings Anders and then you find out Justice gave him some sort of horrible personality-lobotomy which rendered him a whiny man-baby.  I think a knife to the back was the least you could do.

I liked Anders in both Awakening and DA2, but, yeah, he underwent a big personality shift and jumped on the angst wagon. To be fair, Kirkwall seemed to have that affect on mages not named Hawke. Still love that guy, though. LOL.

[madrar]

 I've complained about this before - but you kind of lose some of the smarty-pants talk in favor of flirty options with this guy.  It leaves people a little confused. It's like 'Solas. I can be smart and still flirt with you. My brain werks good.'

 

THIS.   This drives me abso-freaking-lutely insane.  

 

It makes sense, yes, in this particular case.  The relationship between Lavellan and Solas necessarily has a bit of not-entirely-equal, student-teacher tinge to it.  She can't possibly keep up with him because there's so much she doesn't (and can't) know.   

 

But Bioware... jesus, please- someday give us the option of inhabiting a game character that's just as smart as the people around her.  That's why they couldn't give us Mordin as a love interest in ME.  It wouldn't have been convincing.  Mental flirting is all about leapfrogging ideas- being able to see two steps ahead of where the other person is heading, getting there first, and returning the volley.  That's where half the passion and excitement is- the mental equivalent of the smouldering glance or the suggestive line.  It's the deeper understanding and connection that leads (or doesn't lead- totally irrelevant to some) to bumping bits.  

 

I'm not good at roleplaying in games.  I don't do it.  Self-insertion all the way.  And being forced to ask idiotic questions, like "Who is Mythal?" because there's no non-idiotic option? 

 

*facepalm*

 

UGH.

[wildannie]

I will be very surprised if Solas turns out to be a villain, it could be that from some perspectives he could be seen as a villain but 'its more complicated than that' is surely something that is going to remain the case with regards him.  He's also seems to be very popular and I think there will be an expectation for a more nuanced approach than that.

 

Regarding him killing the Mages - I let him do that, but that doesn't mean my PC approves, but she believes that it should be Solas' decision to make.  I view it in the context of the world the game is set in, it seems his only other choice would be to let them go their merry way and get no justice at all.  By letting them go, they might do more damage in the future, he could have been doing the world a favour.  However, I do think he should have let them go for his own sake, but he's flawed and slave to his emotions as we all are to varying degrees.  If truth be told, if I found myself in a similar situation, where someone very dear to me had been tortured and murdered and there was no justice system to speak of, I don't know what I'd do... but I suspect it would not be pretty.

[AzureNika]

Ugh. Anders. I think the tragedy with Anders was not that he killed all those people but what the writers did to his character.  I romanced him because of Awakenings Anders and then you find out Justice gave him some sort of horrible personality-lobotomy which rendered him a whiny man-baby.  I think a knife to the back was the least you could do.

I must agree with you, he went through a drastic change thanks to vengeance. I killed him too, not because I thought he was a horrible monster that deserved to die but because it was a mercy. Thinking back on Awakenings and see what he was reduced to was a big blow for me and I couldn't let him go on living like that, it's not life its hell. 

[jellobell]

I was Garrus all the way in Mass Effect. Favourite Bioware romance ever (other than Solas). Odd that both were written by Weekes (in ME2 anyways). I went with Zev in Origins and Fenris in DA2. So this is the first time I'm dealing with so much heartbreak. 

[AzureNika]

THIS.   This drives me abso-freaking-lutely insane.  

 

It makes sense, yes, in this particular case.  The relationship between Lavellan and Solas necessarily has a bit of not-entirely-equal, student-teacher tinge to it.  She can't possibly keep up with him because there's so much she doesn't (and can't) know.   

 

But Bioware... jesus, please- someday give us the option of inhabiting a game character that's just as smart as the people around her.  That's why they couldn't give us Mordin as a love interest in ME.  It couldn't have been convincing.  Mental flirting is all about leapfrogging ideas- being able to see two steps ahead of where the other person is leading, getting there first, and returning the volley.  That's where half the passion and excitement is- the mental equivalent of the smouldering glance or the suggestive line.  The deeper understanding and connection that leads (or doesn't lead- totally irrelevant to some) to bumping bits.  

 

I'm not good at roleplaying in games.  I don't do it.  Self-insertion all the way.  And being forced to ask idiotic questions, like "Who is Mythal?" because there's no non-idiotic option? 

 

*facepalm*

 

UGH.

Yes yes yes yes I agree so much I feel a need to punch a wall. 

[Siha]

It makes sense, yes, in this particular case.  The relationship between Lavellan and Solas necessarily has a bit of not-entirely-equal, student-teacher tinge to it.  She can't possibly keep up with him because there's so much she doesn't (and can't) know.   
 
But Bioware... jesus, please- someday give us the option of inhabiting a game character that's just as smart as the people around her.  That's why they couldn't give us Mordin as a love interest in ME.  It couldn't have been convincing.  

[...]
 
I'm not good at roleplaying in games.  I don't do it.  Self-insertion all the way.  And being forced to ask idiotic questions, like "Who is Mythal?" because there's no non-idiotic option?

I agree. :-) Except for one: I never picked that silly "Who is Mythal?" (one Lavellan did not even get it as an option). Just... say no! :-) You're not forced.

And about your appeal to BioWare - why not let the player choose be just as smart? Why do they always force this "I am but a soldier, you ask to much of me! What is a ... 'ma-chi-ne'?"-attitude on me?

[BoscoBread]

THIS.   This drives me abso-freaking-lutely insane.  

 

It makes sense, yes, in this particular case.  The relationship between Lavellan and Solas necessarily has a bit of not-entirely-equal, student-teacher tinge to it.  She can't possibly keep up with him because there's so much she doesn't (and can't) know.   

 

But Bioware... jesus, please- someday give us the option of inhabiting a game character that's just as smart as the people around her.  

UGH.

Not even that - there are dozens of posts on this thread of people who are totally confused by that scene.  The writers literally made the game more confusing for people whose first play through was a Solasmance because they are missing crucial pieces of information.  Though, I would agree, I wish they would have made a PC that was a little bit sharper than a bag of lint.  Like it's actually a bit unbelieveable to me that Solas would have been attracted to anyone that wasn't pretty sharp.  

[Arlee]

I agree. :-) Except for one: I never picked that silly "Who is Mythal?" (one Lavellan did not even get it as an option). Just... say no! :-) You're not forced.

 

I didn't even get that choice. When we first arrived and I was talking to Morrigan before going make my way to the temple Morrigan says we were near the temple of Mythal and my character was all like "which is?"... I mean it's not the worst response ever... but it was annoying for her to say that.

[Avejajed]

Hahah. Bioware just thinks the whole lot of us are idiots. Mostly because 80% of people, in general, are actual idiots.

 

All you have to do is go to the main scuttlebutt thread and read out loud the topics. 

 

Just do it once and see if you don't facepalm at that.

[modernfan]

BioWare just needs to put a "nerd" response in the dialogue wheel already for those of us who want ALL THE FACTS.

[AzureNika]

Hahah. Bioware just thinks the whole lot of us are idiots. Mostly because 80% of people, in general, are actual idiots.

 

All you have to do is go to the main scuttlebutt thread and read out loud the topics. 

 

Just do it once and see if you don't facepalm at that.

I see a lot of whining about false advertisement, threats to sue, demanding free patches and such. Most seems people trying to start conversation with the occasional  brain fart. 

[electricfish]

I didn't even get that choice. When we first arrived and I was talking to Morrigan before going make my way to the temple Morrigan says we were near the temple of Mythal and my character was all like "which is?"... I mean it's not the worst response ever... but it was annoying for her to say that.

 

I headcanon'd it a bit to mean more like "and which temple is this?" rather than literally "what's a Mythal?" Surely there would be more than one temple for each of the elven gods, and it wouldn't be much of a stretch to think that some temples had a slightly different purpose than others. This particular temple was all about dat justice, while another Temple of Mythal could act more like a hospital or guidance counselor because of Mythal's motherly/comfort persona as well.

[BoscoBread]

BioWare just needs to put a "nerd" response in the dialogue wheel already for those of us who want ALL THE FACTS.

That and BFF response.  For example, the flirt options that still exist with Cassandra even if you're a female PC were actually just things you should/would say to a close friend. Same thing with Cullen and the whole Lyrium thing. You would of course ask what they wanted and what felt right before you advised them in anything.

[DragonRacer]

I think this raises an interesting question about the morality of not acting. Is choosing to do nothing (thus sacrificing everything) more moral than choosing the lesser of two evils?

 

This whole thing is raising some interesting questions, honestly.

 

Such as the train scenario giving you an illusion of control. Really, you have no control in it. Somebody WILL die. The train will have to run over either one person or multiple people. Now, clearly, nobody here would WANT that train to run over anybody. Instead, now we're presented with a choice - one that's not really a choice, but maybe it makes you feel like you have some control of the outcome. And in that choice, you either step back, make no decision, and allow somebody to die (at random)... or you actively choose who gets to die and who gets to live. Playing God, as if you are the one true arbiter of morality.

 

Sort of fascinating, I suppose. Is it more moral to make a choice (potentially selfishly or potentially unselfishly) or more moral to make no choice at all and let what happens happen?

 

"Is it fate or chance? I can never decide," as Flemeth says in DA2.

 

There are arguments for both paths, I suppose. We want to feel active, in control. Feel like we've exhausted all opportunities, done everything we could. But ARE we really in control, in instances like that? Or is it just the illusion of control?

 

Not to dredge up something grossly personal from my life, but I feel like the internal conflict may add to the philosophical discussion. My mother chose to end her life. Three years ago as of this coming Monday, actually (hard to believe the anniversary is so close again). Sadly, she had a pattern of depression and making vocal threats about such. I had always been able to talk her down. Always, my whole life. Then came a night of a big blow-up fight. After the fight, she tried to call back. For the first time, I was inactive (I let the call go to voicemail purposely). In all honesty, I was exhausted. There were years of mental and emotional turmoil and exhaustion that led to the point of a decision. An active decision to remain inactive for once.

 

The next morning, I received a call from my Dad informing me she'd ended her life that night.

 

If I'd answered my phone, might I have been able to talk her down again? Possibly. Would it have saved her that night? Possibly. Or was it just prolonging the inevitable, that this was something she was eventually going to do anyway regardless of what control I did or did not think I had over the situation? Also possibly. Now, in the end, obviously the action was not mine. I didn't pull the trigger and kill her. But did my inaction contribute to the end result? I don't know. 

 

After three years, I still don't know if the choice to not act was the right one or the wrong one to make at the time. Or if making a different choice would have ultimately affected the outcome at all anyway.

 

Do we choose to always act for what we think is best? Or do we choose to stay out of the conflict and observe what happens? Do we really have any control over certain events? Or is it just an illusion of control? Do you choose which track the train travels down? Or do you stand back and let it go where it may... and if you choose that, is there or is there not still some burden of guilt on you for choosing inaction over action?

 

"Is it fate or chance? I can never decide."