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[Tielis]

So I don't think I'm going to catch up with this thread ever, since I've been off playing the nice fuzzy blanket Cullen romance.  

 

But I started thinking about the lore of DA and how they must have thought it all up.  First off, when DA was first being written, Tolkien elves were right out and the trend was to somehow make elves "new and different".  Warcraft started this, I think.  (Personally, I think it's just writers' ego because Tolkien's elf formula is perfect and shouldn't be messed with.  Anything else feels like trying too hard to be edgy.)

 

Tolkien, a devout Catholic, said that elves represent what man (beings) were "before the fall".  That's why they are generally so honorable and why they suffer so much, and eventually cannot even exist in the world.  So, BioWare, Blizzard, et al, try to be edgy and they want to make elves represent the starting of everything that's bad in the world.  But they realize that they can't make dark elves because that would be too much like D&D.

 

So instead of elves being evil in present day Thedas, they are proto-evil that is somehow twisted and transmuted and half-forgotten over the ages into something benign.  On top of that, in present day, they are slaves and treated as second-class citizens.

 

Yes, I know the "everything bad that has ever happened is because of the elves" isn't a new idea on this forum.  I'm just looking at all the various cultures of Thedas and it seems to me that they all have roots in the ancient elven culture, because, well, elves are pretty much Thedas' cave men, if you want to inject an Earth metaphor.  

 

The only problem I'm seeing is that, unlike the ancient Earth cultures of Egypt and Rome and the like, all the new lore that we're being hit with is all bad.  The elves messed up everything.  They're proto-evil.

 

I really hope I'm reaching with this idea, because it just seems so immature.  This is why I seldom find dark elves interesting -- because I don't believe that a truly evil culture/society can exist.  It will inevitably fall.  And this is what we're seeing now, starting with Solas' introduction into what we see of Thedas, and it's depressing.

[madrar]

*clutches her head*

 

Holy crap.  I'm only 50 pages into this World of Thedas thing, and it's not actually giving answers- it's just making massive new piles of questions.  

While I catch up on everything I've missed here, do we have someone around who can talk with me about physics?  Specifically, electromagnetic physics?  I think Cassius has me pegged as the source for these kinds of things, but that really can't be my thing in the overall MechaMordin.  I have a weak grasp on popular science level stuff at best.   I'm actually mostly useless in terms of domain knowledge, since the DA universe's version of Cog Sci theory of consciousness is pretty much "sentient beings have a soul- it exists in the fade and is stuck to your forehead".  

 

Translation: "it's magic".

 

So much for my potential utility.     =w=  

 

Anyway!   What I do remember of highschool physics triggered a weird hunchy thing about Stone Sense and how the movement of dwarves through the Deep Roads (surrounded by lyrium veins) would have "charged them" in a similar way to how iron particles gain magnetic charge passing through an active current- essentially turning them into walking, talking electromagnets.  This held charge would solve three interesting problems we have with Dwarves: their seeming electricity-based connection to the neural brain that is the Stone (Stone Sense), their "shielded" resistance to magic, and the fact that they appear to lose both if they stay on the surface for too long.

 

It also explains how Dagna is able to tap into the Stone's "brain" while tinkering with the lyrium rune.  She inadvertently charges herself- like a single neuron going off, and then losing its synaptic polarity.  Also, potential nifty connection to dwarves-as-red-blood-cells given the ferrous connection, though that makes the immune system analogy a bit weaker. 

 

So, anyway!   Do we have anyone with a firmer grasp on magnetic physics out there?  Or at least someone who remembers highschool physics enough to give the basic idea a yes or no?

 

Whoa.  Also just realized the whole Verric <-> ferric thing.  

 

*buries her head in her hands and laughs*  

 

Gaider is such a dork.

[RedMagister]

Not to nitpick, but that's not exactly true. Lao Tzu's version of taoism advocates living in small villages that are somewhat far from each other. That's not completely leaving society. It's more that it questions the Confucian social norms rather than promoting anarchy.

 

that wasn't meant to be taken too literally. leaving society- i mean leaving the role you played in society. when people reached old age, or a certain point in their lives, they turned to taoism. i'd have to reread the his book again to check. i did not mean, leave society completely and isolate yourself. that is not what taoism advocates. and this has nothing / isn't really related to the philosophy itself, is it?

 

the point is, there is similar thinking to the qun in the 'way' of life. i'm not sure how living in small villages has anything to do with it.

 

also, i don't recall the recommendation for living in small villages. is that true? if so, i don't think he'd mean it literally either. 

[_Lucinia]

I think those who of us who hate time travel have brought up similar ideas, then discarded them and refused to speak of it because ew time travel. 

But yes, I see it as a possibility, and that meaning of 'real' makes sense.

But by golly, if Solas is going to muck about with my beloved timelines and histories.

No sir.

No even you can get away with that, Messere Egghead. 

I don't care for time travel either.  Maybe in the sense of that person's post, they're not real until he fixes what's wrong.  Not necessarily time travel?  I don't know.  I'm a dummy then cuz I wasn't thinking of it in a go back in time and change the world type of thing.  I did like the perspective though of the realness in direct comparison to In Hushed Whispers.  Does potentially add another perspective to why no one's real to Solas.

 

I think I am making not enough sense.

[Caddius]

The fools that unleashed the blight unto this world thought they were unlocking the ultimate power.

Typing this for later theory because Solas is mad at me I kept the Wardens.

Unleashed is just a cool sounding word to use in describing evil happening like that.

Unless you're Solas and you know more.

Unleash makes me think of the Black City being a prison for the Blight. The Magisters broke in in a way the prison-creator didn't expect, and the Magisters carried the corruption down below.

[flabbadence]

I'm still catching up with the thread (ermm, probably unwise since I have a deadline but multitasking ahoy), so I don't know if this was already settled (ignore me if it has) but

 

RE: Qunari were slaves of the Elvhen empire based on the Freed are Slaves mosaic

 

I really don't think this is the case. Going back to the mosaic:

 

I think this one is called "Freed Are Slaves," which is exactly the kind of "saying words but meaning different things" I expect from a Tevinter. There's lies in the carving, too, but I'll come back to that.

 

Subject aside, I like this. It's workmanlike, but in a good dwarven way. It repeats because the carver knows what she's good at, so she does it again and again. Makes me think she has more than a passing knowledge of the Stone.

 

That said, there's two sets of hands involved, one old, one new. Take this magister. He's glowing because he's fresh. Newer. Same with his trophies flanking him. Carved down from more complex figures. And the flat next to them - seems plain, doesn't it? The bottom is filled with detail, but this is left an open field? No, that's just what it is now, but there's shadows for a clever eye. So, what was here if not this handsome magister wanting his cod stuffed? Someone else instead of his friends, and two more figures on each side. Seven total.

 

Only the top was changed. The Qunari haven't been touched; that's old wear down there. When it was first done and hundreds of years later, yoked Qunari prisoners still fit. I don't suppose it's for the same reasons.

 

I can only say the what, not the why. I can guess that someone wanted to be a Tevinter hero and paid to have their face carved on an antiquity. I mean, that's a crime against ancestors where I'm from, but I don't expect Tevinters to obey dwarven honor. Or their own, really. They've been at war a long time, so I understand wanting to seem big. Orzammar's the same with the darkspawn, unfortunately.

 

Still, shame to lose the original. Not for the seven, for the carver. Good work, this.

 

 

 

So seven figures were chipped out and replaced by a magister with four of his friends. That sounds like someone trying to hide the identities of the seven Black City-invading magisters to me, not trying to efface the elves.

 

Remember when we first talk to Gatsi, the stone mason decoding these mosaics, he says these murals are certainly from Tevinter, because they're crafted from a particular stone that can only have been taken from the Hundred Pillars.

 

There's really no reason to think elves had qunari slaves based on this piece of evidence.

[Janic99]

OMG I FEEL YOU

"Where did the Inquisitor go?"
....

LOL exactly!! XD I could imagine this so clearly

[_Lucinia]

Speaking of time travel.  Thanks to whomever mentioned earlier the BBC shows leaving Netflix.  Was still in the process of getting my fiance caught up on Doctor Who.  I still had season 7 for him to watch.  We would have missed it.  So now I am off to watch a time traveling alien.

[scintilla]

I saw a theory on tumblr I was really digging for the whole rebirth scenario, but I'm unsure If I can find it..

 

Here It is. It seems plausible enough, atleast to me. But we all have our own Headcanon/theories of course.

http://spectreoftheg...uture-isnt-real

 

Hm. Lavellan and Dorian were in the bad future for a matter of hours. Would they still see it all as unreal after months? Years? How long has Solas been awake, with the Inquisition?  It would be strange if he spent years with these people and was still unable to see any of them but Lavellan as real.

[Sah291]

Confucianism helped structure how people should live in society. Taoism (p/n daoism) was a way of being when one left society, when it started anyway. Buddhism was a religion. It had iconic figures. you can learn buddhist philosophy (not the religion) without the spiritual figures.  honestly my study leaves me thinking like they're all mixed. I can no longer figure out where it started and how the studies branched out. I need a history class on it.

 

to make it simpler, lets say the qun has aspects of eastern philosophy. Not Buddhism, the religion, but mostly taoist philosophy. it emphasizes a way of living, that is in accordance with the world. not a rejection of it. Kill, not out of anger or rage. this is something the qunari or those who follow the qun try to understand. 

 

They are, eastern religions are very syncretic I think... There's a lot of Taoism in certain sects of Buddhism, and in a lot of cases that will be practiced along side folk religions, like Shinto in Japan. Confucianism deals with the more mundane and practical aspects of life..governing, family, relationships, etc. I don't know where the writers got their inspiration for the Qun, but there are some parallels in western philosophy as well, like in Gnosticism or Stoicism. I think whatever the case, it does sound like the modern Qun has been twisted away from it's original teachings, just like the Chantry. The Qunari are imperialist, and imperialism seems to crush any spirituality anywhere. I think the Quanri kind of set up to represent everything westerners fear and find alien about the east/middle east.

[Eivuwan]

that wasn't meant to be taken too literally. leaving society- i mean leaving the role you played in society. when people reached old age, or a certain point in their lives, they turned to taoism. i'd have to reread the his book again to check. i did not mean, leave society completely and isolate yourself. that is not what taoism advocates. and this has nothing / isn't really related to the philosophy itself, is it?

 

the point is, there is similar thinking to the qun in the 'way' of life. i'm not sure how living in small villages has anything to do with it.

 

also, i don't recall the recommendation for living in small villages. is that true? if so, i don't think he'd mean it literally either. 

 

http://www.taoism.net/ttc/complete.htm

 

Chapter 80

Small country, few people
Let them have many weapons but not use them
Let the people regard death seriously
And not migrate far away

Although they have boats and chariots
They have no need to take them
Although they have armors and weapons
They have no need to display them

Let the people return to tying knots and using them
Savor their food, admire their clothes
Content in their homes, happy in their customs

Neighboring countries see one another
Hear the sounds of roosters and dogs from one another
The people, until they grow old and die
Do not go back and forth with one another

[Renmiri1]

A bit older but fits

 

[Renmiri1]

I saw a theory on tumblr I was really digging for the whole rebirth scenario, but I'm unsure If I can find it..

 

Here It is. It seems plausible enough, atleast to me. But we all have our own Headcanon/theories of course.

http://spectreoftheg...uture-isnt-real

 

 

 

The worst part is that I think she's on to what Solas thinks.. At least dead on to what Cole reads from Solas mind

 

** sobs **

[Janic99]

Spoiler bcz of the size

Spoiler

me after he says he is sorry to bioware:



 

[flabbadence]

I don't get how the blight came to be. Was it something that existed since the beginning of time or was it blood/lyrium that somehow became corrupted through experimentation.

 

Edit: Somehow I think understanding the blight is the key to everything.

 

I think the Blight began whenever this happened:

 

Long ago, when time itself was young, the only things in existence were the sun and the land. The sun, curious about the land, bowed his head close to her body, and Elgar'nan was born in the place where they touched. The sun and the land loved Elgar'nan greatly, for he was beautiful and clever. As a gift to Elgar'nan, the land brought forth great birds and beasts of sky and forest, and all manner of wonderful green things. Elgar'nan loved his mother's gifts and praised them highly and walked amongst them often.

 

The sun, looking down upon the fruitful land, saw the joy that Elgar'nan took in her works and grew jealous. Out of spite, he shone his face full upon all the creatures the earth had created, and burned them all to ashes. The land cracked and split from bitterness and pain, and cried salt tears for the loss of all she had wrought. The pool of tears cried for the land became the ocean, and the cracks in her body the first rivers and streams.

 

Elgar'nan was furious at what his father had done and vowed vengeance. He lifted himself into the sky and wrestled the sun, determined to defeat him. They fought for an eternity, and eventually the sun grew weak, while Elgar'nan's rage was unabated. Eventually Elgar'nan threw the sun down from the sky and buried him in a deep abyss created by the land's sorrow. With the sun gone, the world was covered in shadow, and all that remained in the sky were the reminders of Elgar'nan's battle with his father-drops of the sun's lifeblood, which twinkled and shimmered in the darkness.

 

--From The Tale of Elgar'nan and the Sun, as told by Gisharel,keeper of the Ralaferin clan of the Dalish elves.

 

 

a theory further strengthened by:

 

Elgar'nan had defeated his father, the sun, and all was covered in darkness. Pleased with himself, Elgar'nan sought to console his mother, the earth, by replacing all that the sun had destroyed. But the earth knew that without the sun, nothing could grow. She whispered to Elgar'nan this truth, and pleaded with him to release his father, but Elgar'nan's pride was great, and his vengeance was terrible, and he refused.

 

It was at this moment that Mythal walked out of the sea of the Earth's tears and onto the land. She placed her hand on Elgar'nan's brow, and at her touch he grew calm and knew that his anger had led him astray. Humbled, Elgar'nan went to the place where the sun was buried and spoke to him. Elgar'nan said he would release the sun if the sun promised to be gentle and to return to the earth each night. The sun, feeling remorse at what he had done, agreed.

 

And so the sun rose again in the sky, and shone his golden light upon the earth. Elgar'nan and Mythal, with the help of the earth and the sun, brought back to life all the wondrous things that the sun had destroyed, and they grew and thrived. And that night, when the sun had gone to sleep, Mythal gathered the glowing earth around his bed, and formed it into a sphere to be placed in the sky, a pale reflection of the sun's true glory.

 

--From "The Tale of Mythal's Touch," as told by Gisharel,keeper of the Ralaferin clan of the Dalish elves

 

[Renmiri1]

Hm. Lavellan and Dorian were in the bad future for a matter of hours. Would they still see it all as unreal after months? Years? How long has Solas been awake, with the Inquisition?  It would be strange if he spent years with these people and was still unable to see any of them but Lavellan as real.

Was less than a year and that compared to his 3,000 years or more is nothing

[Mims]

 

http://spectreoftheg...uture-isnt-real

 

 

This is definitely a valid read of his character! After all, he was wiling to let his orb go to Corypheus. To a certain extent, he is fairly jaded with the modern world. It is essentially post apocalyptic to him. Just look at the Dales. Nothing but ruins and shabby steppe over what was likely once a beautiful land.

 

But I don't know if I would take that to mean that he will then attempt to reboot the universe.

 

Bioware made a point to do two things with the time travel plot. The first was to say that it only worked because of the breach. I suppose Solas could find an alternate means of time travel...but that kind of defeats the purpose of introducing that information. The second is to have Solas admit that he has never heard of such a magic before. He could be lying. But most likely, he legitimately has no knowledge of it and its research. I don't think he could overnight a plan to travel back to ancient Arlathan. [Also keep in mind, he himself says not to romanticize the ancient times.] 

 

Adding on another thought: the time travel plot also only happens in one scenario. So while the research may exist somewhere, Solas is only ever aware of it in the games you actually experience the time travel plot. Admittedly, they could always handwave him hearing about it or something like that. 

 

Second major thing- I don't think Flemeth would be on board for an ultimate destruction scenario. Particularly not when she has Morrigan and a grandchild potentially around. She does seem legitimately fond of them, in her strange way. Yes, he does kill Flemeth. But she planned for that outcome. So whatever is going on, they are at least 75% on the same page. 

 

I do think he'll do something bad before we see him do something good, don't mistake. I just don't think he has the powers or capacity to reboot the earth back to Arlathan. [Nor any indication that's what he is even after.] 

[DrTeatime]

Unconventional Solas pic, i.e. me.

 

Spoiler

[Willow_Elessidil]

Close up of Solas lovey face:

 

[scintilla]

Was less than a year and that compared to his 3,000 years or more is nothing

 

Source on it being less than a year? It isn't a huge amount of time for him, no, but I still don't see it as being exactly the same as Dorian and the Inquisitor in the bad future.

[Eivuwan]

I think the Blight began whenever this happened:

 

 

a theory further strengthened by:

 

The first part is intriguing. I think you may be right. The second part can be explained by science lol.

[Eivuwan]

Unconventional Solas pic, i.e. me.

 

Spoiler

 

You look familiar.

[Janic99]

All I hear is this song in the ending when Solas breaks up with you.. I could imagine him singing it if it was just a male version. 

[flabbadence]

The first part is intriguing. I think you may be right. The second part can be explained by science lol.

 

It can be explained by science if we take the Sun to mean literally the sun. But in the same way we can equate the Moon to the Veil, the Sun must have been something else. The True Dragons? The Fade? Dunno. But it definitely isn't just the sun.

[Caddius]

Source on it being less than a year? It isn't a huge amount of time for him, no, but I still don't see it as being exactly the same as Dorian and the Inquisitor in the bad future.

When asked about the timeline of Inquisition Gaider coughed awkwardly and said that unlike Origins or 2, it hadn't been settled yet.