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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#55801
Mims

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Five babies. The number of children attributed to Mythal and Elgar'nan. Falon'din, Dirthamen, Andruil, June and Sylaise.

 

Have no where near caught up to things. But this is an interesting thought. Lets say that Mythal/Elgar'nan legitimately created all of those gods in some fashion. That means the only two gods not directly related to Elgar'nan and Mythal are Fen'Harel and Ghilan'nain. I wonder what that suggests about Fen'Harel's origins? And, it would explain why Mythal has such a fury over her betrayal. The majority of her potential betrayers are intimately connected to her in some way.

 

There would be a certain sort of irony of Fen'Harel ultimately being Mythal's 'favored' child and not actually being hers. 


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#55802
HatUmbra

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heheheeheheheheheheheh * full imagination mode goes on. *

* starts to drool *
 

I am so crazy about him XD



omg why.. I made this drunk gameplay challenge lol I sound so retarded first of all I am drunk and second of all I am sick in this video (still am -.-) XD I had fun XD my English sucks so badly in this video hahahah I love the part where I go crazy about Solas.

Oh this is so wonderful!

I do the same thing and I am not drunk when I do so. :P

I tend to tear up a bit about Felix due to personal loss issues, and being old and cynical about life, but yes, I also squee like a schoolgirl when I see Approves. :)



#55803
slmisfit

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Hello! I've been lurking around for a few days now (creepy, right?) but I've noticed how welcoming and interesting everyone is and couldn't resist for long. This is one of my first posts on the BSN in years, but I've caught the Solas bug. And I suppose you all know where that leads: here and desolate sobbing, always desolate sobbing. In any case, I just wanted to pop in officially. You may see me around a bit more after all. I hope to have something of value to add to these wonderful discussions on Solas.

I thought you said you got a bug regarding Solas in the game, and was about to start troubleshooting with you before I realized what you actually said. lol

 

Welcome to the Solas thread! We are all infected with the Solas virus here. There is no cure.


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#55804
Moondreamer01

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I think hunting down Mythal was always the plan, as the developer notes from the ending suggest that she had always been waiting for him to come claim her power.

If that's the case though, why not do so earlier? We're not sure how long Inquisition last (my guess is between one and two years). He stays with them until the orb breaks and he can't get it back anymore. Only then does he go to Mythal. As for her, yes, I'm betting she has taken him into account in her plans, so she might might have been a few steps ahead of him in that.



#55805
Meer

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This is perhaps the best place in the public forums on BSN. It's very welcoming. Everyone is respectful and considerate, even when they disagree.

 

 

Welcome to the thread!

~snip oh my gosh I am delighted to be greeted with such a cute kitten snip~

Thank you both kindly! It's wonderful that one of the best characters in the game has attracted such fantastic fans as well. I'm relieved and happy at that. At present I'll have to go back a bit and check out some of these theories, though the entire backlog is impossible. You all move so quickly here, it's amazing~

*edit* ah, I wasn't expecting such a warm welcome. Thanks to everyone for their kindness.


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#55806
Ajna

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Hello! I've been lurking around for a few days now (creepy, right?) but I've noticed how welcoming and interesting everyone is and couldn't resist for long. This is one of my first posts on the BSN in years, but I've caught the Solas bug. And I suppose you all know where that leads: here and desolate sobbing, always desolate sobbing. In any case, I just wanted to pop in officially. You may see me around a bit more after all. I hope to have something of value to add to these wonderful discussions on Solas.

 

uyr64Ia.jpg


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#55807
Lady Luminous

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Morning lovelies,

 

So feel free to tease me, but I thought some might like the names I chose for my Elf's dual daggers: 

 

Mythal's Sorrow and FenHarel's Regret


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#55808
TanisLave

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Is there any Heavy Dalish armor?.. I played a Archer my fast playthrough on the X-box and.. It wasn't as fun as I'd hope but I still can't stop headcanoning her being a Archer, so I wanted to try Warrior.

 

Not super interested in playing a mage, but gosh darn if the Keeper armor Isn't gorgeous on F!Lavellans. 



#55809
Siha

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I also don't see why we couldn't explore positive representations of the Dalish at the forefront of the story, while Minaeve, Sera, and the merc Dalish bombard us with so much negativity about the Dalish. Inquisition felt very one-sided.

 

This is all true, but I think it is not actually unrealistic. The Inquisition (like any organisation) was founded by a group of people who share an Andrastian mindset. Cassandra, Cullen and the Templars he brought along, Leliana, Josephine, probably many of the spies and usually also the Circle mages. They are Andrastian and they will not just give up their faith.

 

I know, this is not what you meant, you wished for them to be more open-minded. But however in real life, how often do we meet such open-mindedness from people with strong believes? All of the Inquisition people at least accept that there are other religions and they do not try to force their own faith on others. That's already more than the real world gives us.

 

I see it so that the Inquisitor can make a stand, be a strong character who follows his/her own path, no matter what the others think.

About how there is no Dalish in the Inquisition, I do not find that so surprising. They are, after all, a rather small group of people who live rather cut off from the rest of Thedas. They do not open up easily to strangers (as shown nicely when not playing a Dalish Inquisitor), so chances of them turning to the Inquisition are indeed small. The choice to underrepresent them is rather realistic, I think. Why would a Dalish turn to an Andrastian organisation (the Inquisition), founded and driven by Andrastians, that strives to restore order after the Andrastian leader (the Divine) of another Andrastian organisation (the Chantry) was murdered? As Solas hints when speaking about the orb, usually the Elves are blamed anyway, whatever they do.

 

And to throw a bunch of anti-Dalish at us... why not. Sometimes we just have to cope with rejection. There's not always someone to back us up, that's life. But as the story goes on, opinions can change, other people be met.


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#55810
dragondreamer

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I guess I haven't had Cass and Varric on the team together much for a while.  Yesterday I got a banter where Cass asked him if Fenris knew about what happened to Hawke.  He does, and my heart shattered to bits all over again. :crying:


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#55811
Siha

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Is there any Heavy Dalish armor?.. I played a Archer my fast playthrough on the X-box and.. It wasn't as fun as I'd hope but I still can't stop headcanoning her being a Archer, so I wanted to try Warrior.

 

Not super interested in playing a mage, but gosh darn if the Keeper armor Isn't gorgeous on F!Lavellans. 

Yes, there is. I finally got it yesterday. It is called "Dalish Warrior Armor" and only comes as a schematic. I like it alot. I prefer the Dalish Scout Armor, but since I wore it on all my Dalish playthroughs so far, a change is good.

The DWA, however, can only be found as a random drop. I got it from Unadine Grotto, first room, chest next to the first set of stairs where you enter. I had to reload that save often to get it. I had almost thought it a myth by the time I finally saw it in the chest.

 

Never found the Keeper armor schematic, though.


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#55812
TanisLave

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This is all true, but I think it is not actually unrealistic. The Inquisition (like any organisation) was founded by a group of people who share an Andrastian mindset. Cassandra, Cullen and the Templars he brought along, Leliana, Josephine, probably many of the spies and usually also the Circle mages. They are Andrastian and they will not just give up their faith.

 

I know, this is not what you meant, you wished for them to be more open-minded. But however in real life, how often do we meet such open-mindedness from people with strong believes? All of the Inquisition people at least accept that there are other religions and they do not try to force their own faith on others. That's already more than the real world gives us.

 

I see it so that the Inquisitor can make a stand, be a strong character who follows his/her own path, no matter what the others think.

About how there is no Dalish in the Inquisition, I do not find that so surprising. They are, after all, a rather small group of people who live rather cut off from the rest of Thedas. They do not open up easily to strangers (as shown nicely when not playing a Dalish Inquisitor), so chances of them turning to the Inquisition are indeed small. The choice to underrepresent them is rather realistic, I think. Why would a Dalish turn to an Andrastian organisation (the Inquisition), founded and driven by Andrastians, that strives to restore order after the Andrastian leader (the Divine) of another Andrastian organisation (the Chantry) was murdered? As Solas hints when speaking about the orb, usually the Elves are blamed anyway, whatever they do.

 

And to throw a bunch of anti-Dalish at us... why not. Sometimes we just have to cope with rejection. There's not always someone to back us up, that's life. But as the story goes on, opinions can change, other people be met.

 

Don't know who posted the Original post you replied to, but It reminded me of this little comic.

tumblr_ni7radcYbO1svthfno2_500.jpg

tumblr_ni7radcYbO1svthfno1_500.jpg

by http://carriwitchett...ellan-drops-mic


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#55813
madrar

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I agree.  Even on the elven reproduction issue, David Gaider has said it doesn't have to do with genetics (because people insisted on there being a scientific explanation), but was actually due to the magic inherent to the elves.  Nothing wrong with the science theorycrafting, it's interesting, but Thedas is a fantasy world that literally has magic in the blood, and logical, scientific answers aren't likely to be the answer in many cases.

 

*shines Team Mordin beacon into the night*

 

I don't have a good solution for this yet.  Dumping this here to lay out the mental paths and roadblocks I've tried so far for anyone who wants to chew things over:  

 

I don’t want to get too deep into pre-veil history and the “willing Fall from Eden”, but when the veil first went up, we have reason to believe that the newly-physical elves were all incredibly powerful mages.  This makes sense in terms of what we think we know about magic theory: one full half of their being lies in the fade, while the other is physical.  They are the intersection of Possibility and Decision- drawing Fade into the real world, and enacting their Will upon it to create Change.  

 

On the other hand, (I could be wrong and for the love of god, stop me if this is a false assumption) but when humans first appeared, I don’t believe they were.   Elves, as they were “whole” before the raising of the veil, had fade shadows, while humans came later, and were (at least at first) entirely physical beings. 

 

I thought the key to understanding the emergence of magic in humans and why elf-elf unions are the only ones that result in baby elves might lie in the role of the essentially elven fade-shadow in determining the nature of the offspring.  This sounds plausible at first, but eventually hits a snag I can’t resolve. 

 

From all accounts, once a human has been introduced to a generational line, both immortality and pointy ears are lost: the offspring from that point on are physically human and mortal forever. Further pairings can restore more shadow with each successive generation, but it’s an asymptotic curve.  The line can breed with elves for thousands of generations, get to a point where the children have 99.999% of a fade shadow, but the conduit will never be whole and thus the offspring never elven.  These offspring will probably, however, be damn good mages, because again- that’s what the fade half of magic draws from. 

 

Notice how Tevinter is all over this.  Kind of.  I think they may have forgotten exactly how it works, if they ever really did figure it out, because I don’t see them rounding up female elf mage slaves for breeding purposes.  They’ve got the right basic idea, though, and it’s produced some pretty dang powerful human mages.

 

This concept also has some support from a conversation with Cole, I think. While he’s describing the fadey-magic element of their mortal being, Cole describes being a mage as “lips struggling to shape language your parents lived.”   Thanks to the rules of inheritance here, if you went back far enough in any mage’s family tree, no matter which race, you would inevitably reach the pre-veil existence of spirit-angel-elves, a time when shaping the world with idle thought was simply how the universe worked.

 

Of course, taking on this perspective is where killing demons gets even more uncomfortable than it was when they were just potentially-friendly-but-still-otherworldly entities.  It forces the idea that Solas wasn’t being rhetorical.  Spirits really are people.   Or rather, they are fragments- actual pieces of The People. 

 

And in this context, Cole is bizarre.  Really bizarre.  On the one hand, I’m not sure he could be a mage as we know them, since he’s already poured his whole self into a physical cup, so to speak.  There’s nothing on the other side to draw through- he is entirely and completely here.  On the other, assuming he had mental control over the cup’s shape, then he really could change into anything he liked.  He would essentially be a shapeshifter, which might explain how they fit into the world of Thedas. 

 

Also, while it’s possible (I guess it shouldn’t be ruled out entirely?) that he was the fade shadow of the original human mage Cole, I’m not sure if this theory supports it.  He’s able to sustain himself entirely from the fade, which seems like it should only be possible for a complete conduit, not the kind of tattered fragment-shadow that would have been attached to a human mortal.  But maybe not.  I’m starting to suspect the immortality-requires-intact-fade-shadow thing is a totally false assumption, but can’t put my finger on why just yet. 

 

And while we’re on the subject of Cole: remember how squicked out Sera is by disembodied parts?  She doesn’t realize it consciously, but that’s the source of her subconscious revulsion for him, not the fact that he’s a potential demon.   A deep (Andruil) part of her recognizes him as “parts”- as creepy as a disembodied hand crawling along the ground, or a gruesomely severed head that continued to talk would be for a squeamish human.  From an Elvhen perspective and sense of wholeness, he’s kind of intensely disturbing.  Solas doesn’t seem to mind, but then, he’s seen his share of detached and fragmented People parts in his time.

 

Anyway.  As much as fade-shadow inheritance theory seems to explain, there’s at least one massive problem.

 

If we assume that being physically elvish requires an intact fade shadow, and the completeness of an entity’s shadow has a significant effect on how much she can draw on the Fade, then all elves would have the innate capacity to be incredibly powerful mages.  >w<   This is not true.   

 

From a different angle, if creating a child requires the actual literal donation of half your "soul" (though I know parents who would argue this is totally accurate) why wouldn't mage parents suddenly become much less powerful after their first child?  And wouldn't the second offspring of two elves be... human?

 

It's a mess.  For now I don’t see a way forward.  The whole thing might have to be scrapped.    Or am I missing a way to reconcile all of this?

 

Quickening and the Shems

 

Moving on, pinning down the reason behind the Quickening is even harder.  The only piece that feels solid is that it must have had to do with a disruption to the elves’ fade-shadow as an effective conduit to the Fade, and thus their ability to pull from it to sustain their bodies indefinitely.  And while the arrival of humans might have been a factor in the quickening, (it might also be entirely coincidental) it certainly don’t think it was as direct as “infectious mortality". 

 

I don’t have a theory on this that I like yet, but here’s one possibility.  Perhaps it wasn’t proximity to humans, but to what the humans were doing that caused it, as fade-shadows or fragments of fade-shadows were forcibly yanked from the Fade to be enslaved as spirit servants or destroyed as demons.  Each piece lessened what was “available” for the next generation.  Interbreeding would have sped the process, drawing even more from the elves as successive generations of human mages halved and rehalved the original intact shadows, making the shadows of modern mages like Viv and Dorian a patchwork of tiny individual shreds- in stark contrast to Solas, whose fade shadow is not only intact, but theoretically strong enough (in terms of its own spirit Will) to act independently from his physical body if necessary.

 

Anyway- trying to work this out reveals a huge hole in our understanding.  If what we know of as “spirits” are the detached fade-shadows (and later, fragments of these fade-shadows) left behind when the physical half of a sentient being dies, and having a fully intact fade shadow is what makes you phenotypically Elvhen, then there can never be more elves than there were when the veil was first raised.   Even if you assume reincarnation, that first post-veil generation is problematic.  “Whole” ancient elves wouldn’t have been able to procreate: or at least, the offspring would have been missing a fundamental piece of being elven: a fade-shadow.  Even assuming a system of reincarnation in which the shadow was guided back to a new mortal body, one of the ancient elves would have had to die before any future offspring could claim it.

 

It’s possible that such offspring were the original Humans: the purely physical, shadowless children of first generation elves.  These “soulless” vessels might grant Mythal her first physical form in the new Thedas, but I don’t really like it, since that begs the question of what happened next, why they don’t show up again until thousands of years later, and when they do, why they’re so damn Willful compared to the Elvhen.  There's definitely another hand in play here.    

 

uh... so, I should cut this short before it's a thesis.  It's all junk that doesn't really work yet, but maybe it's useful to spark the right idea in somebody else's head.  Feel free to chop it all up as needed.  


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#55814
Siha

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I guess I haven't had Cass and Varric on the team together much for a while.  Yesterday I got a banter where Cass asked him if Fenris knew about what happened to Hawke.  He does, and my heart shattered to bits all over again. :crying:

Please share (spoiler?)! I do not let Hawke die, so I will never hear it myself.



#55815
CapricornSun

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I guess I haven't had Cass and Varric on the team together much for a while.  Yesterday I got a banter where Cass asked him if Fenris knew about what happened to Hawke.  He does, and my heart shattered to bits all over again. :crying:

 

Are you talking about a banter that happens after Here Lies The Abyss? I don't think I've had Cass and Varric in a team for a while after that quest either. :P

 

Speaking of Here Lies The Abyss, I let my Andersmancing Hawke die in that quest and I know that Hawke says something about their LI before he/she goes off to fight the giant Fade spider but for my Hawke, instead of saying something about Anders, she says, "Say goodbye to Varric for me."

 

Is that supposed to happen?  :blink:

 

Yes, there is. I finally got it yesterday. It is called "Dalish Warrior Armor" and only comes as a schematic. I like it alot. I prefer the Dalish Scout Armor, but since I wore it on all my Dalish playthroughs so far, a change is good.

The DWA, however, can only be found as a random drop. I got it from Unadine Grotto, first room, chest next to the first set of stairs where you enter. I had to reload that save often to get it. I had almost thought it a myth by the time I finally saw it in the chest.

 

Never found the Keeper armor schematic, though.

 

I never saw how the Dalish Warrior Armor looked like. I've only seen the Keeper Armor and the Dalish Scout Armor (which I adore <3) so I'm curious on how it looks like. Any elven or Dalish NPCs wearing them as an example? 



#55816
Rabbitonfire

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Don't know who posted the Original post you replied to, but It reminded me of this little comic.

Spoiler

by http://carriwitchett...ellan-drops-mic

This is closer to what I felt..He's just weird looking until you get to know him:

 

tumblr_nhql1hwmIe1svthfno2_500.jpg
http://carriwitchett...me-in-the-trash


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#55817
Siha

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Are you talking about a banter that happens after Here Lies The Abyss? I don't think I've had Cass and Varric in a team for a while after that quest either. :P

 

Speaking of Here Lies The Abyss, I let my Andersmancing Hawke die in that quest and I know that Hawke says something about their LI before he/she goes off to fight the giant Fade spider but for my Hawke, instead of saying something about Anders, she says, "Say goodbye to Varric for me."

 

Is that supposed to happen?  :blink:

 

 

I never saw how the Dalish Warrior Armor looked like. I've only seen the Keeper Armor and the Dalish Scout Armor (which I adore <3) so I'm curious on how it looks like. Any elven or Dalish NPCs wearing them as an example? 

Yes. The merchant in the Dalish camp wears it. I can also post a screenshot, give me some time.

 

BTW, my Hawkes (Anders/Fenris) also said "Say goodbye to Varric for me." I only got her speaking about her LI prior to the mission in Skyhold, and of course the nightmare has a line about Anders/Fenris.



#55818
Meer

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Are you talking about a banter that happens after Here Lies The Abyss? I don't think I've had Cass and Varric in a team for a while after that quest either. :P

 

Speaking of Here Lies The Abyss, I let my Andersmancing Hawke die in that quest and I know that Hawke says something about their LI before he/she goes off to fight the giant Fade spider but for my Hawke, instead of saying something about Anders, she says, "Say goodbye to Varric for me."

 

Is that supposed to happen?  :blink:

Ah, I believe this does happen each time. I've played through this scene twice (once with a Sebastian-loving Hawke, another with Fenris) and this line plays. However, while he/she runs up to attack the Fade spider, Hawke will softly apologize or say goodbye to their LI. It's actually quite difficult to hear, especially on a console, but appears in the subtitles.



#55819
BoscoBread

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Please share (spoiler?)! I do not let Hawke die, so I will never hear it myself.

Cassandra just asks if the LI knows and Varric says that 'they do'.  It's mostly Cassandra being friends with Varric.  I couldn't let Alistair die. Not after the ridiculously lovely way he talks about my warden especially when he gets his private letter. I was like 'ooh no. you are not going anywhere.' 



#55820
Sable Rhapsody

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Hawke will softly apologize or say goodbye to their LI. It's actually quite difficult to hear, especially on a console, but appears in the subtitles.

 

This is the point at which I had to shut off my PC and call my best friend in all the tears.  She romanced Cullen and Solas was basically "that weird bald houseplant" in her playthrough, and she's had to put up with all my wild fangirl mood swings.  And her Fade decision was between Stroud and Hawke.  Clearly I'm just bad at playing Dragon Age  <_<


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#55821
Siha

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Cassandra just asks if the LI knows and Varric says that 'they do'.  It's mostly Cassandra being friends with Varric.  I couldn't let Alistair die. Not after the ridiculously lovely way he talks about my warden especially when he gets his private letter. I was like 'ooh no. you are not going anywhere.' 

I fortunately made Alistair king. I would have hated to choose. But I assume, I would have let Hawke die, too.



#55822
TanisLave

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Only Hawke I would sacrifice is my Andraste-boot-lickin warrior hawke who romanced Sebastian.

 

Love hate relationship with that pacifist. /shakes fist



#55823
dragondreamer

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Please share (spoiler?)! I do not let Hawke die, so I will never hear it myself.

 

 

Are you talking about a banter that happens after Here Lies The Abyss? I don't think I've had Cass and Varric in a team for a while after that quest either. :P

 

Speaking of Here Lies The Abyss, I let my Andersmancing Hawke die in that quest and I know that Hawke says something about their LI before he/she goes off to fight the giant Fade spider but for my Hawke, instead of saying something about Anders, she says, "Say goodbye to Varric for me."

 

Is that supposed to happen?  :blink:

 

Yeah, it's a banter that happens after Abyss.  Well, it's safe to assume, I didn't hear it until I went into my post-game file yesterday to try to find some codex stuff.  Varric and Cass were in the party and started chatting.  I don't remember it word for word, but the wiki is helpful.

 

 

  • Cassandra: About Hawke...
  • Varric: Don't, Seeker. Just... don't.
  • Cassandra: But what about Fenris. Does he...
  • Varric: He knows. I sent a letter. Leave it be...

 

 

 

 

As for when Hawke was left behind, I just remember "sorry, Fenris." :crying:



#55824
CapricornSun

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Yes. The merchant in the Dalish camp wears it. I can also post a screenshot, give me some time.

 

BTW, my Hawkes (Anders/Fenris) also said "Say goodbye to Varric for me." I only got her speaking about her LI prior to the mission in Skyhold, and of course the nightmare has a line about Anders/Fenris.

 

Ah yes, my Hawke talked about Anders at Skyhold too and yeah, I got the nightmare line about Anders as well. :) I'm asking because I remember seeing a video of Hawke with Isabela as her LI and she said something about her before taking on the giant Fade spider. Was a bit miffed that she didn't say anything about Anders. I guess she didn't really like being with him that much. ^__^;

 

Ah, I believe this does happen each time. I've played through this scene twice (once with a Sebastian-loving Hawke, another with Fenris) and this line plays. However, while he/she runs up to attack the Fade spider, Hawke will softly apologize or say goodbye to their LI. It's actually quite difficult to hear, especially on a console, but appears in the subtitles.

 

I guess I should replay my Lavellan PT again to check it out again, though I'm sure my Hawke didn't say anything about Anders before she fought the spider (I had my subtitles on). xD



#55825
Rabbitonfire

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Only Hawke I would sacrifice is my Andraste-boot-lickin warrior hawke who romanced Sebastian.

 

Love hate relationship with that pacifist. /shakes fist

I couldn't pursue a priest. Yes he was attractive but I'd feel like the temptist (if that was a word). Also I only played male in DA2. Disappointment really.