153434 réponses à ce sujet

[Sashimi_taco]

I don't think so

 

 

 

Oh **** how did you find this!?

[Arahnea]

It looks like a Krogan

[Mims]

 

Were they worshipping these gods simultaneously? Did being under Tevinter rule/ slavery lead them to accept/ adopt Old God worship at some point without negating worship of their own gods?

 

This may be tinfoil hatty. But, we do know that some elves worship forgotten ones. Perhaps old gods/forgotten ones are one in the same?

 

Indeed, despite being locked away from the mortal world and seen as the worst of the gods, the Forgotten Ones appear to still hold sway over some elves, and may not be so "forgotten" after all. It is said that some souls, seeking revenge against humans for their past affronts to the elven people, have sought the Forgotten Ones out through hidden, dark cults.^[2] According to Dalish belief, these individuals have seemingly committed a greater crime even than the human lords, and "have torn out their hearts and forsaken all that it means to be Dalish in return for the keys to a twisted and terrible strength."^[2]

[RebbyWriter]

As someone primarily on her phone and cant see signatures, plz link all of your respective tumblrs now so I can go on a followathon. Thanks.

http://mypixelmuse.tumblr.com/

[Avejajed]

I KNOW, RIGHT!? WHAT DOES IT MEAN. And also, because there ARE statues of Mythal within the temple, Andruil outside of it, Fen'Harel wolf statues and Owl+Orb statues within, various Elven frescos (but all of the more primitive style), and Elven Mosaics...

Were they worshipping these gods simultaneously? Did being under Tevinter rule/ slavery lead them to accept/ adopt Old God worship at some point without negating worship of their own gods?

Maybe. Because. They. Are. The. Sammmmmmme. Gods.

Lol.

Listen I'm just saying.

Over time history is muddled. Same set of gods, different cultures give them different names, different agendas, attribute them possibly to different things.

I think it'd be hilarous if some of the old elvish Gods aren't even all elvish...

But that's a theory best left in my head because it has nothing to back it up.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[Patchwork]

I KNOW, RIGHT!? WHAT DOES IT MEAN. And also, because there ARE statues of Mythal within the temple, Andruil outside of it, Fen'Harel wolf statues and Owl+Orb statues within, various Elven frescos (but all of the more primitive style), and Elven Mosaics...

Were they worshipping these gods simultaneously? Did being under Tevinter rule/ slavery lead them to accept/ adopt Old God worship at some point without negating worship of their own gods?

 

I couldn't be surprised if like modern alienage elves most had converted to dragon worship. Maybe the tomb was built during that really fuzzy period where the elves wanted to reclaim their heritage but you can't dismiss hundreds of years of more recent history easily.   

[Sashimi_taco]

To make a comparison to real world examples of slaves and god worship:

 

Slaves from Africa were forbidden from worshipping their old gods. This was to prevent them from bonding with each other over their own values and realizing they can rebel. However dancing and drums was still a part of worshipping christianity for a long time within the african slaves. They still held onto a very small part of their heritage in the safest of rebellions. 

 

In my opinion, the Dragon Gods were partially linked to the elvehn gods. I have the whole "dragons hold the keys to elluvians" theory. They were not the same beings, but they were linked. And if the elf slaves worshipped them in similar small ways, that would make sense. Even if the gods were completely different. You can hold onto small traditions that your oppressors wont notice. And over time those small rebellions will have different meanings. Which is why the valaslin had changed meanings. It was a small rebellion that people forgot what it meant. 

[modernfan]

My little blog is at http://modernfan.tumblr.com - I'm new at this so there's not a lot of content, but what content there is basically all Solas all the time.

[Rabbitonfire]

It looks like a Krogan

are you referring to Renmiri1's post about the spirit in the well?

 

I'm not an expert at human physiology but I'd say it could be human.

[RynJ]

I am sorry... I fail to detect it. I see no shift of the eyes and hear no break in the voice. Where? The part I suppose you mean is around 4:20. But just where exactly?

And I meant not only Cullen and Blackwall but also Lavellan with them... or is she not smart, too?

 

It always felt like there should have been a pause after he says "What I must tell you...the truth." It probably would have communicated the intended effect more.

[Avejajed]

Too many sets of gods to make any of this work in my head.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[Felya87]

With all the Warden-talk around.

How well would your Warden and Quizzy get along? (Ignore question if you play self inserts )

And how would your Warden react to Solas or vice versa? (So the post is at least somewhat on topic!)

 

 

 

Darel and Nareth would of course get along. That's what cousins do. Expecially the Tabris ones. I have this headcanon Darel is not originally Dalish, but she is city born. Her mother was sister with Adaia, but ended up in the clan Lavellan with her family.(that's why Darel is not so entusiast about going back to the clan one day. She always felt an outsider.)

So, in memory of her uncle, Darel have a preference for daggers, just like Nareth.

Probably my Warden would fill a very motherly/big sister role with Darel, just like she did with Soris and Shianni. And would give her just this advise about Solas:

(after all, is the girl I have headcanon have grabbed Alistair by the ear during the Landsmeet keeping him in the Warden, all the time growling to Eamon and Anora.)

 

Nareth personally would be polite with Solas, and just as curious about his travels in the fade. Maybe she would be a little usure about Cole and spirits, even the good ones. Her experience with Justice, and what happened to him and Anders still haunt her. She doesn't hate them, but think they should never came in contact with people.

 

After the break up? I hope Solas can run very fast.

[Siha]

You also have to think outside of the game too - the developers can't have some charaters KNOW what's going on and some don't.  The impact in the future DLC and the games is going to be how how the PCs deal with the reveal - not just a romanced Lavellan.  So if your romanced lavellan already knows taht Solas is Fenharel and **** is about to go down - why is she just sitting there? Why isn't she rallying people to get him.  The game would be so different. So they couldn't have it where they just told her.

 

She is smart - but again I've complained about this - when it comes to Solas they made the Lavellan a little starry eyed(guhh...). I know it's nothing you want to hear. This is the SAME reaction everyone had when the podcast came out a few weeks ago. 

That has nothing to do with it, I think. That break, which I still do not see, could have been bigger. She could have asked "What is wrong?" He could have hesitated and then just spoken of the vallaslin. The viewer might have thought "Oh, what...?!" but that is okay, because I suppose everybody understood that there is something off with Solas, just not what exactly. (I secretly suspected he had some plan, like Anders - of course not that sort of plan, though.) And a little break there does not scream "I am Fen'Harel!"

More realistic even: "...the truth..." (hesitation) L: "What is wrong?" S: "... it's... it's just that I don't know how to tell you without hurting you. It's about your face..." Someone tells me something painful and hesitates before doing so. Believable? For me, yes. I would not think "Oh, the vallaslin are not the reason... he must be Fen'Harel!"

 

There would have been a ton of possibilities to make that break obvious without giving information away. I made the first playthroughs without romancing Solas at all and still knew there was something about him. Only, I attributed it to other things. Just like I thought Blackwall was so evasive not because he did not know about the Wardens but, instead, because he wanted to keep the secret (that the archdemon must be killed by a Warden because of the soul-hopping). A little obvious break of someone who is about to tell a beloved that everything she believed in was wrong surely would not have revealed Solas's identity right there.

 

It's not "nothing I want to hear". It just does not convince me. I am not a Solas romancer, so maybe you think me biased. But that is not the case. I just dislike this BioWare thing that happened with ME already. It feels to me like (a) they have a plan, the plan is not liked as much as they had expected, or (b ) they executed it poorly, and so they come up with some explanation later on to smooth things over. Or maybe I am simply disappointed that if that actually was the plan they did execute it so poorly.

Maybe I must add that I was very disappointed with the lack of facial expression anyway. I did not want the comic style of DA2 (and still got it with the sad faces), but a little more... substance. Like faces that actually look like screaming instead of normal-with-a-screaming-voice etc.

[Mims]

No. No. This is not tin foil hatty. You know why? The tomb to the Emerald Knights is where they hid the truth of what caused Red Crossing. An elven-human skirmish. It's clear that both sides are to blame and I don't want to open that hole can of worms into a moral discussion at present (or ever because I see both sides as deeply flawed and refuse to side with either). But those elves within the story itself were deeply paranoid, angry, and seeking to villanize the humans just as much as the humans were them.

If these Emerald Knights were so desperate for revenge against the humans who led them to betray one of their own without realizing it - I can't imagine how they WOULDN'T turn to worship of the Forgotten Ones if that's a thing in lore that some elves do.

Question is this right - if the Old Gods and Forgotten Ones were the same that's a bit rough because we only have the names of three Forgotten Ones, the Formless One perhaps filling in the position of the 4th, but that leaves three missing. I have no answers. But I am significantly more willing to separate the Old Gods from the Elven Pantheon now that you have presented this information. 

 

Ooh. That is an insanely good point. It would explain the differences to the temple and the backstory revolving around the Emerald Knights. They certainly do seem like they could have been pushed to desperate actions, particularly when it seemed as though their own gods were silent and allowing all of this horror to continue. 

 

But I also agree that information on the Forgotten Ones is a bit lacking, perhaps even suspiciously so. I feel like if they were intended to be revealed, we would have seen more codex entries or snippets from the old Forgotten One worshipers. I had speculated once that they might not have even existed- that the 'Forgotten Ones' were simply the unpleasant memories the elven people had left over from when their gods turned savage. 

 

But it is still a compelling thought. I wonder if I can dig up the RPG manual that that particular source is attributed to. 

[Uirebhiril]

Spoiler

That has nothing to do with it, I think. That break, which I still do not see, could have been bigger. She could have asked "What is wrong?" He could have hesitated and then just spoken of the vallaslin. The viewer might have thought "Oh, what...?!" but that is okay, because I suppose everybody understood that there is something off with Solas, just not what exactly. (I secretly suspected he had some plan, like Anders - of course not that sort of plan, though.) And a little break there does not scream "I am Fen'Harel!"

More realistic even: "...the truth..." (hesitation) L: "What is wrong?" S: "... it's... it's just that I don't know how to tell you without hurting you. It's about your face..." Someone tells me something painful and hesitates before doing so. Believable? For me, yes. I would not think "Oh, the vallaslin are not the reason... he must be Fen'Harel!"

 

There would have been a ton of possibilities to make that break obvious without giving information away. I made the first playthroughs without romancing Solas at all and still knew there was something about him. Only, I attributed it to other things. Just like I thought Blackwall was so evasive not because he did not know about the Wardens but, instead, because he wanted to keep the secret (that the archdemon must be killed by a Warden because of the soul-hopping). A little obvious break of someone who is about to tell a beloved that everything she believed in was wrong surely would not have revealed Solas's identity right there.

 

It's not "nothing I want to hear". It just does not convince me. I am not a Solas romancer, so maybe you think me biased. But that is not the case. I just dislike this BioWare thing that happened with ME already. It feels to me like (a) they have a plan, the plan is not liked as much as they had expected, or ( they executed it poorly, and so they come up with some explanation later on to smooth things over. Or maybe I am simply disappointed that if that actually was the plan they did execute it so poorly.

Maybe I must add, that I was very disappointed with the lack of facial expression anyway. I did not want the comic style of DA2 (and still got it with the sad faces), but a little more... substance. Like faces that actually look like screaming instead of normal-with-a-screaming-voice etc.

 

I'm confused... are you arguing that despite what the character's writer said, that Solas wasn't actually intending to tell the truth to Lavellan, or that they didn't portray this in a way that you thought was effective?

[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[Avejajed]

Ooh. That is an insanely good point. It would explain the differences to the temple and the backstory revolving around the Emerald Knights. They certainly do seem like they could have been pushed to desperate actions, particularly when it seemed as though their own gods were silent and allowing all of this horror to continue.

But I also agree that information on the Forgotten Ones is a bit lacking, perhaps even suspiciously so. I feel like if they were intended to be revealed, we would have seen more codex entries or snippets from the old Forgotten One worshipers. I had speculated once that they might not have even existed- that the 'Forgotten Ones' were simply the unpleasant memories the elven people had left over from when their gods turned savage.

But it is still a compelling thought. I wonder if I can dig up the RPG manual that that particular source is attributed to.

You know what would be interesting, albeit unlikely?

Let's say once upon a time everyone lived in peace. Humans, Elves, Dwarves...whatever. They had an idyllic community that was watched over by one set of gods. Gods that transcended race.

But as people do, the people began to argue and war with each other, eventually splitting apart. Each group took their worship with them, keeping the same gods, but attributing their own race to them over time and tradition.

The men called them the old gods. The Dwarves had a name for them as well, but it is long forgotten, and the elves continued their traditional Pantheon worship.

Just a fun thought.

Only because I'm still convinced the forgotten ones are the gods the Dwarves forgot.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[Addai]

Really? I felt she was honoring their sacrifice. Tamlen and Mahariel discovered an ancient elven artifact that could benefit their people (Tamlen specifically touched it out of reverence for it), and got tainted for it. The rest of the Dalish wanted to pretend like they never found the mirror and move on, but I got the impression that Merrill wanted to restore it partly because she wanted something good to come from their deaths. Mahariel and Tamlen died from touching the mirror no matter what; but sweeping the mirror under the rug and pretending they never found it makes the tragedy just a loss of two lives. Restoring the mirror and using it to benefit the People everywhere would make it so at least something positive came of their deaths. That's the impression I got of Merrill, mind.

This is in the context of the fact that on my first unspoiled playthrough, I had to kill Merrill's entire clan. I didn't know you could avoid it until I came to the forums. But it still colors my perceptions of her quest line.
 

I must admit that one thing I do admire about Solas is his self control even if you take him on the Hushed Whispers quest and he is sick from inhaling red lyrium, yet he still gives nothing away.    I'm also glad I did his romance first because I came at it fresh and without cynicism.    I really do see saw between love and anger now.    I'm actually looking forward to doing the run as a male elf and not being blinded by love, so able to take different dialogue options instead of the heart icon.   It will be interesting to see whether we end up buddies or not.    I also noticed that the cards for my Dalish hunter include that of a black wolf, which I assume is meant to indicate my prey or possibly my outlook on life as that of a wolf - which is superbly ironic given what we now know about Solas.     I wondering whether to give him a wolf name, not that the in game characters will respond to it, but even so it will be fun to have my Inquisitor wolf confront Fen'Harel.

At some point we talked about his apparent ability to hide his nature from those who would otherwise be able to see it- there's no greater proof for this than the fact that he's in a cell being treated like a normal prisoner by Corypheus who suffers no rivals.
 

As someone primarily on her phone and cant see signatures, plz link all of your respective tumblrs now so I can go on a followathon. Thanks.

Mine's in my signature- I don't post much anymore, but have some good archives of fantasy art and medieval and ancient history, mostly Germanic/ Viking.
 

It's not "nothing I want to hear". It just does not convince me. I am not a Solas romancer, so maybe you think me biased. But that is not the case. I just dislike this BioWare thing that happened with ME already. It feels to me like (a) they have a plan, the plan is not liked as much as they had expected, or (b ) they executed it poorly, and so they come up with some explanation later on to smooth things over. Or maybe I am simply disappointed that if that actually was the plan they did execute it so poorly.
Maybe I must add that I was very disappointed with the lack of facial expression anyway. I did not want the comic style of DA2 (and still got it with the sad faces), but a little more... substance. Like faces that actually look like screaming instead of normal-with-a-screaming-voice etc.

Who says the Solas ending wasn't received well? I think those of us dying for more content is proof of job well done.

[Gwyvian]

Hmm, I can totally get with the idea that the Forgotten Ones. It makes sense!

So, just out of idle curiosity... (please don't kill me.) I'm just wondering how the "default" became that Lavellan is basically a Daenerys Targeryen lookalike and is usually a mage... it seems the popular choice by a large margin in a lot of fan work I see and character choices...? It just seems so... singular.

*runs away and hides*

[Seregwen]

You're right, why does bull have the pants on in this threesome.

Cuz he's a top. Also his dick is unrenderable by human hands.

[ZerebusPrime]

Random thought, why would removing the valaslin be so speacil of a moment that it would warrent being your last memories of eachother? I get that it is a bombshell that they are slave markings and all but we know Lavallen is speacal to him. He could of done that before. Why where the veil is so thin you can feel it tingling on your skin? Makes me think removing the valaslin was more than just removing it. Maaaayyyybbbeee.....it was some kind of binding if you will?? Feedback from those wicked familar to the lore would be appreciated!

 

I assumed the Vallaslin could allow an elven god to bind those elves of the appropriate markings, yes.  They are slaves, after all.  The revelation that the elves were slaves also adds new meaning to the term "Keeper".

[Mims]

Well.. how many Elven Pantheon Gods do we KNOW fall to the blight/ red lyrium taint? We know Andruil does. We know Falon'Din does. We know Mythal does (post-wounds from Andruil battle, but we have no record of her losing her mind - she might have chosen death before madness/ taint corruption). Possibly Ghilal'nain.

I don't know if ANY of this is true - just throwing it out there for other people to have a crack at it.

 

I suppose it depends. According to the creation story, Elgar'nan had a vicious streak that would have predated any possible contact with the blight. Although given it is a uniquely Dalish story, there's every likelihood that it doesn't actually indicate any known event. We also don't find out much of anything about Syalise or June. The most 'twisted' thing we learn about Dirthamen are the actions of his priests. [Which admittedly, were a bit grotesque.]  

 

My mind does keep going back to the bit of datamined text that was attached to Mythal's talk with the Inquisitor and Morrigan. It seemed random, but I really do wonder if they had intended to have a flashback or some sort of echoing dialogue there. The words were in elvish, but it read something like: 'goodbye, my love-' then cut off, followed by another line going: 'help, help!' 

 

If Mythal is the one speaking, it sounds like the betrayer would have been Elgar'nan. 

 

But then again- it could just be a random bit of code, or, cut content that they didn't mean to imply anything.