153434 réponses à ce sujet

[almasy87]

Could also be To each their own I guess ^^

On a side note guys.. I was checking on facebook for a "Solas" fan page and weirdly enough there doesn't seem to be any?

Can this be? Or am I blind?

I know there is a Cullen one

[FiveThreeTen]

With as often as the codex mentions that elves used to work in tandem with wolves, I stopped finding it surprising that they would have so many statues depicting them. It apparently used to be a thing. Which is a really cool thing that I now have a lot of questions about.

Well we know that the Elves who founded the Dales didn't have much to go on regarding their history, but I think the use of Woves was definitely not just practical, and that the early Dalish (as in Dales citizens) did know that Wolf was associated with some sorts of "slave uprising", which must have been fitting at the time.

[AryBoBary]

Could also be To each their own I guess ^^

On a side note guys.. I was checking on facebook for a "Solas" fan page and weirdly enough there doesn't seem to be any?

Can this be? Or am I blind?

I know there is a Cullen one

 

Hmmm, I know not of that, but we definitely have a Book Club going...  https://www.facebook...ndecentFiction/

[Patchwork]

Exactly. And that's why enduring (suledin) is such a fundamental concept to the Dalish. It is thematic of their purpose of the "last of the elvhen" as well as their way of life.

 

I remember in DAO the foster mother says something about the dalish not talking about past hurts which struck me as odd at the time because past hurts seemed to be all the dalish spoke of. It was only after a few more playthroughs that it clicked she wasn't talking about the ancient past but personal grief and loss. 

[dragondreamer]

Given what we've learned about the differences between Circles in various parts of Thedas, I wouldn't be surprised if that even varied between locations. For example, I would guess the Kirkwall Circle was stricter - at least after Meredith started going nutty - and depending on how the Inquisitor describes it, the Ostwick Circle might have been the kind of place where the templars didn't care to enforce the rules that much or could be bribed to look in the other direction.

 

I actually remember reading somewhere that Circle mages could marry, it just wasn't common because Circle culture or something.  I think part of it is because it's difficult to have anything outside of a communal sort of life inside a Circle, and since mages could be relocated to another Circle at any time without warning, it might have been better not to become too attached to someone else.  The fact that any babies were taken away from mage parents might have also discouraged mages from attempting to form a family.

[Janic99]

NEW VIDEO COMING UP SOON GUYS

[Elven_Glory]

Personal Headcanon: I think they did. At least once - but not then.
 
After that scene.  She definitely swooned.  My gal was not big on upfront affections. She was coy and flirty, but never the big stuff. She was older and was never really attached to anyone like that - it was almost always about sex.  So when he told her 'i love you' she was really overwhelmed. She didn't realize how much she meant to him and then in turn how much he meant to her.

It's so interesting how we can have such unique interpretations of the character. My quizzy was pretty young, but she had an old soul. She didn't identify terribly well with the Dalish and thus, Solas was the first person she had ever really developed an attraction to. She was intimidated by the age difference between them, thinking someone so sagely as him could never develop feelings for one so young, so that first kiss in tne fade was a huge leap for her, hense the hesitation.

[jellobell]

FWIW I understood where you were coming from. "The way things are" is a very tricky subject, colored by things that are ingrained in us from birth and in our very language. If you have no word to express a concept, does the concept still exist? How would someone explain it to you?

Yup. One of the things I love most about Anthropology is that it "makes the strange familiar and the familiar strange". You analyze other societies and learn to see through the eyes of a culture that is not your own. Once you learn why people do what they do, it always makes an awful lot of sense, even if you have to throw out a lot of your own preconceptions along the way. Once of my favourite examples of this is a paper called "Shakespeare in the Bush". There are so many people who think Shakespeare is universal, but Hamlet doesn't elicit the same reaction among people who are fine with men marrying their dead brothers' widows and who are vehemently opposed to patricide.

 

There's a good bet that all the Thedasian cultures are colored by western Anglo-European mentality, even the Qunari. Bioware has to sell games to the mainstream, after all. But I like the possibility of exploring other mindsets, otherwise why write fantasy?

Oh, definitely. Bioware are still coming from a very western perspective. However I'd be surprised if they didn't draw upon other real-world cultures while writing some of the cultures of Thedas. What I love about Dragon Age is that they're obviously trying very hard to build a world with multiple cultures and peoples, and furthermore a world that is not static. Thedas has a history, and it continues to change, even between games.

 

I'm a bit envious of some of you guys that have backgrounds in things that give you so much more to look at the game with.  I actually find the idea of you applying your Anthropology knowledge to things like the cultures in the game really interesting.  I love that stuff.  So if you ever feel like extrapolating on anything (I think I used that word correctly?) you have at least one person that will read it.

Thanks! I was joking with a friend the other day that I'd love to do a Foucauldian analysis of the Circles (it does work extraordinarily well). And all of this discussion about the Dalish makes me want to drag out those ethnographies of the Trobrianders and the Ju'hoansi.

[Aetheria]

FWIW I understood where you were coming from. "The way things are" is a very tricky subject, colored by things that are ingrained in us from birth and in our very language. If you have no word to express a concept, does the concept still exist? How would someone explain it to you?

 

 

There's a good bet that all the Thedasian cultures are colored by western Anglo-European mentality, even the Qunari. Bioware has to sell games to the mainstream, after all. But I like the possibility of exploring other mindsets, otherwise why write fantasy?

 

I wouldn't even say that the "westernness" of Dragon Age is pandering to the mainstream. A lot of stuff in the setting appears to be consciously "remixing" (for lack of a better word) things from Western history & literature. So you've got elves as second-class citizens, Ferelden and Orlais clearly calling back to England and France, the Chantry's similarities to the medieval European church, etc.

[almasy87]

Well we know that the Elves who founded the Dales didn't have much to go on regarding their history, but I think the use of Woves was definitely not just practical, and that the early Dalish (as in Dales citizens) did know that Wolf was associated with some sorts of "slave uprising", which must have been fitting at the time.

 If I'm not wrong, there is a codex entry that says they still erect statues to the Dread Wolf because he's still one of their gods and because they hope to not displease him in some way.. I think it was on the "Offering to the Dread Wolf" codex entry if I'm not mistaken. Let me check

-

Mh ok I can't find that entry online but the Wiki says this:
 

In spite of Fen’Harel’s reputation, however, he has been known to be invoked by Dalish elves to express dismay at unexpected events ("By the Dread Wolf!"), to demand the annihilation of an enemy (“Dread Wolf take you!”), when all seems lost,^[16] and as a wary farewell (“May the Dread Wolf never hear your steps”). Furthermore, some Dalish elves still erect shrines to him and make offerings; perhaps as a form of appeasement, but still a sign that the fearful wariness in which the Dread Wolf is held by modern-day elves is not absolute.^[17]

Indeed, according to David Gaider, Dalish elves do still honor Fen'Harel in their own way; it is simply not the same as how the other gods are worshipped. Dalish elves do not bring statues of him with them as they might do with those of the Creators, as his always remain outside elven camps and nevertheless remain a way to honor him no matter where they are. Therefore, Fen'Harel's statues remain common in the Dales at large in any placeoutside of a Dalish settlement, explaining their comparative ubiquity.^[18]

[sikozuShanu]

lol, okay, head cannon confirmed! They made the beast with two backs!  No way my quizzie let him get away without some action, lol!

 

In my headcanon, there is no nookie.  It's a sad, sad world, where my Lavellan has all these hopes and expectations and just when she thinks she's finally going to get to take that next mind-blowing step with him, he dumps her.  It just made it that much more brutal.  All those fantasies she had, snuffed in a heartbeat.  How could he get her hopes up with the dominating talk and the enjoyment of "power, intrigue, danger and sex" and then... nothing, just when she was sure there was about to BE something.  

 

I did say that LAVELLAN was having fantasies, right??

 

*skulks away and worries about grasp on reality*

 

Top of page!  Sorry took a bit to get it up here...

 

[Caddius]

Yup. One of the things I love most about Anthropology is that it "makes the strange familiar and the familiar strange". You analyze other societies and learn to see through the eyes of a culture that is not your own. Once you learn why people do what they do, it always makes an awful lot of sense, even if you have to throw out a lot of your own preconceptions along the way. Once of my favourite examples of this is a paper called "Shakespeare in the Bush". There are so many people who think Shakespeare is universal, but Hamlet doesn't elicit the same reaction among people who are fine with men marrying their dead brothers' widows and who are vehemently opposed to patricide.

 

Oh, definitely. Bioware are still coming from a very western perspective. However I'd be surprised if they didn't draw upon other real-world cultures while writing some of the cultures of Thedas. What I love about Dragon Age is that they're obviously trying very hard to build a world with multiple cultures and peoples, and furthermore a world that is not static. Thedas has a history, and it continues to change, even between games.

 

Thanks! I was joking with a friend the other day that I'd love to do a Foucauldian analysis of the Circles (it does work extraordinarily well). And all of this discussion about the Dalish makes me want to drag out those ethnographies of the Trobrianders and the Ju'hoansi.

I LOVED 'Shakespeare in the Bush'.       I need to read that again.

I made a public album. Hopefully it works. 

http://imgur.com/a/UT6Gp

EDIT: If you ever needed further proof I'm a nerd, I used the Napoleonic Imperial shade of red for Orlais, and a yellow as close as I could get to the Fereldan heraldry. I originally used the computer version of Tyrian Purple for the Byzantines, but it didn't go well next to Antiva, and the computer didn't do a good job of Tyrian purple. So I just muddled about until I found a prettier shade.

[_Lucinia]

 If I'm not wrong, there is a codex entry that says they still erect statues to the Dread Wolf because he's still one of their gods and because they hope to not displease him in some way.. I think it was on the "Offering to the Dread Wolf" codex entry if I'm not mistaken. Let me check

-

Mh ok I can't find that entry online but the Wiki says this:
 

In spite of Fen’Harel’s reputation, however, he has been known to be invoked by Dalish elves to express dismay at unexpected events ("By the Dread Wolf!"), to demand the annihilation of an enemy (“Dread Wolf take you!”), when all seems lost,^[17]

Indeed, according to David Gaider, Dalish elves do still honor Fen'Harel in their own way; it is simply not the same as how the other gods are worshipped. Dalish elves do not bring statues of him with them as they might do with those of the Creators, as his always remain outside elven camps and nevertheless remain a way to honor him no matter where they are. Therefore, Fen'Harel's statues remain common in the Dales at large in any placeoutside of a Dalish settlement, explaining their comparative ubiquity.^{<a data-ipb="nomediaparse" data-cke-saved-href="http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Fen"href="http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Fen" harel#cite_note-17"="">[18]}

The Emerald Knights put up statues too didn't they, for their wolf companions?  I don't know if all of those wolf statues are for Fen'Harel.  

 

There's this codex for the Emerald Graves:

 

 

Traveling through the Emerald Graves in the Dales, one will see dozens of carven stone wolves. The Dalishcall these the Knights’ Guardians. In the days of elven Halamshiral, wolf companions walked alongside Emerald Knights, never leaving the side of their chosen knight. Wolf and elf would fight together, eat together, and when the knights slept, wolves would guard them. The statues were erected in memory of their unbreakable bond.

—An excerpt from In Pursuit of Knowledge: The Travels of a Chantry Scholar by Brother Genitivi

[Patchwork]

I actually remember reading somewhere that Circle mages could marry, it just wasn't common because Circle culture or something.  I think part of it is because it's difficult to have anything outside of a communal sort of life inside a Circle, and since mages could be relocated to another Circle at any time without warning, it might have been better not to become too attached to someone else.  The fact that any babies were taken away from mage parents might have also discouraged mages from attempting to form a family.

 

One of the Tegan flirts is saying it takes a brave man to marry a mage, I think it's possible but you have to have Wynn level good standing and both the Senior Enchanter and Knight Commander willing to endorse it. 

 

From what I remember Orlais and Ferelden were quickies in dark corners type of circles whereas Kirkwall templars were probably suspicious of any type of closeness between mages. 

[FiveThreeTen]

 If I'm not wrong, there is a codex entry that says they still erect statues to the Dread Wolf because he's still one of their gods and because they hope to not displease him in some way.. I think it was on the "Offering to the Dread Wolf" codex entry if I'm not mistaken. Let me check

-

Mh ok I can't find that entry online but the Wiki says this:
 

In spite of Fen’Harel’s reputation, however, he has been known to be invoked by Dalish elves to express dismay at unexpected events ("By the Dread Wolf!"), to demand the annihilation of an enemy (“Dread Wolf take you!”), when all seems lost,^[17]

Indeed, according to David Gaider, Dalish elves do still honor Fen'Harel in their own way; it is simply not the same as how the other gods are worshipped. Dalish elves do not bring statues of him with them as they might do with those of the Creators, as his always remain outside elven camps and nevertheless remain a way to honor him no matter where they are. Therefore, Fen'Harel's statues remain common in the Dales at large in any placeoutside of a Dalish settlement, explaining their comparative ubiquity.^{<a data-ipb="nomediaparse" data-cke-saved-href="http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Fen"href="http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Fen" harel#cite_note-17"="">[18]}

Ah yes I had forgotten about the whole Dread Wolf thing (and the stories Merrill tells in Da2).

 

Which makes me wonder if wolves were viewed in a more positive light during the time of the Dales. By associating Fen'harel imagery to rebellion but that's unlikely.

 

They most likely shared the Trickster pov with modern Dalish because the belief that Fen'harel sealed their gods and doomed their empire seems to be pretty ancient.

 

There is an entry regarding this in Emprise du Lion:

 

 

On an unrelated note I find it pretty funny how the mayor is all "Whatever, let those elves make flower crowns for their Wolves. Weirdos."

[Giton]

Personal Headcanon: I think they did. At least once - but not then.

 

After that scene.  She definitely swooned.  My gal was not big on upfront affections. She was coy and flirty, but never the big stuff. She was older and was never really attached to anyone like that - it was almost always about sex.  So when he told her 'i love you' she was really overwhelmed. She didn't realize how much she meant to him and then in turn how much he meant to her. 

I want to play!

 

Lavellan after the ball: "Discover me like John Donne discovers America!" (jumps on the bed fist in the air!)

 

He does.

 

Also, John Donne exists in Thedas in this timeline. Cassandra is also a fan.

 

Fun fact: the poem in question has the most erotic use of prepositions in the English language: 

 

License my roving hands, and let them go

Before, behind, between, above, below.

O my America! my new-found-land,

My kingdom, safeliest when with one man manned,

My mine of precious stones, my empery,

How blest am I in this discovering thee!

To enter in these bonds is to be free;

Then where my hand is set, my seal shall be.

 

Sidenote: I will eat my shoe if Cassandra's poem isn't influenced by Donne. (No, I won't)

 

Sidenote to the sidenote: I am over-tired. Still.

 

Edited: SPACING.

[_Lucinia]

Also, and I am just making assumptions here, I think anything that's to honor Fen'Harel might look more like these wolves:

 

spoilered for size

Spoiler

 

I don't have anything really to back that up, just making an assumption from what I have seen.  This is a Fen'Harel shrine.  I suspect any wolf statues that are to honor him more than likely would look like that.  

[cleosilver]

Addai, on 19 Jan 2015 - 10:33 PM, said:

But... who ever said it was "all about that"? That's quite a leap. To me it's absolutely not a big deal. However in my mind there's no way he left Lavellan's quarters after "ar lath ma, vhenan." He just went inside to jump on the bed springs and test them for Fadewalking readiness.

lol this is me right here! I also kind of assumed that there was some more intimacy going on with them that we didn't see on screen but it was implied. I also took it after that scene they did something.

 

Glad I'm not the only one who thought so. lol

 

 

Nope. You're definitely not the only one.

[jellobell]

I actually remember reading somewhere that Circle mages could marry, it just wasn't common because Circle culture or something.  I think part of it is because it's difficult to have anything outside of a communal sort of life inside a Circle, and since mages could be relocated to another Circle at any time without warning, it might have been better not to become too attached to someone else.  The fact that any babies were taken away from mage parents might have also discouraged mages from attempting to form a family.

Perhaps it wasn't a formal rule, but I definitely got the impression that most Circle mages would not be permitted to marry. Wynne's story of her son being taken from her, Anders talking about how any attachment between mages was looked down upon by the Templars (and he was part of the Fereldan Circle), and the extreme lengths Malcolm Hawke went to in order to avoid being sent back to the circle for Leandra and his child's sake. And it makes sense. By forbidding familial ties you can lessen the chance of organized resistance. It's the same rationale for forbidding circle mage parents access to their children. I can see circle mages who aren't in the circle being allowed to get married, because they are no longer able to upset the workings of the circle once they leave it.

[almasy87]

The Emerald Knights put up statues too didn't they, for their wolf companions?  I don't know if all of those wolf statues are for Fen'Harel.  

 

There's this codex for the Emerald Graves:

 

Yeah, I noticed that.
But then again, when in the Temple of Mythal Morrigan and Solas talk about the Fen'harel statue, it's the normal wolf one, not the howling one...
So it might be both?

[madrar]

I LOVED 'Shakespeare in the Bush'.       I need to read that again.

I made a public album. Hopefully it works. 

http://imgur.com/a/UT6Gp

EDIT: If you ever needed further proof I'm a nerd, I used the Napoleonic Imperial shade of red for Orlais, and a yellow as close as I could get to the Fereldan heraldry. I originally used the computer version of Tyrian Purple for the Byzantines, but it didn't go well next to Antiva, and the computer didn't do a good job of Tyrian purple. So I just muddled about until I found a prettier shade.

 

It works, and it is glorious. These are amazing.   

 

Do you have a wiki login yet?  I can upload them as the default Lavellan contributor, but that doesn't feel right- you deserve huge credit for putting these together.  Plus half their utility is the related Caddius™ history footnotes...  @w@

[_Lucinia]

Yeah, I noticed that.
But then again, when in the Temple of Mythal Morrigan and Solas talk about the Fen'harel statue, it's the normal wolf one, not the howling one...
So it might be both?

Ah right.  That's why I never say anything like I am certain to be correct! 

 

More than likely both statues are used.  

[Caddius]

It works, and it is glorious. These are amazing.   

 

Do you have a wiki login yet?  I can upload them as the default Lavellan contributor, but that doesn't feel right- you deserve huge credit for putting these together.  Plus half their utility is the related Caddius™ history footnotes...  @w@

Thank you.

I'm not sure how to log into the wiki. Give me a tutorial and later tonight when I have time I'll upload the FA timeline and the maps, I guess?

[dragondreamer]

Perhaps it wasn't a formal rule, but I definitely got the impression that most Circle mages would not be permitted to marry. Wynne's story of her son being taken from her, Anders talking about how any attachment between mages was looked down upon by the Templars (and he was part of the Fereldan Circle), and the extreme lengths Malcolm Hawke went to in order to avoid being sent back to the circle for Leandra and his child's sake. And it makes sense. By forbidding familial ties you can lessen the chance of organized resistance. It's the same rationale for forbidding circle mage parents access to their children. I can see circle mages who aren't in the circle being allowed to get married, because they are no longer able to upset the workings of the circle once they leave it.

 

It likely varies from Circle to Circle...  Ahah, it does.  I found what I was thinking of:

 

http://forum.bioware...chastity/page-2

 

Mages within the Circle are permitted to marry, but it's impractical with outsiders and they also must get permission from the Chantry (so it might be considered a reward for good behavior). Even so, the culture within the typical Circle of Magi tends to make mages unwilling to marry. The policy on fraternization will depend on the individual Circle-- some forbid it, while others do not, though in either case it still occurs. Considering mages live outside normal culture, they also consider themselves free of cultural conventions (especially those who were raised in a Circle from a young age) and thus tend to be quite liberal in their views.

 

[Avejajed]

You know what's a lot of work? Wandering around the Hissing wastes. So. Much. Walking.