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[drake2511]

He said Spirit!Cole doesn't delete his memories, he just "lets it go". I think he just doesn't let himself dwell in his old baggage.

Thank you spirit!Cole can be confusing at times, and my Lavellan just run away angry, leaving him there...

[Tielis]

I'm not saying that some entanglements wouldn't be messy, but I also think that culture has a very definite impact on how people solve problems. Sometimes, the way people in similar societies deal with breakups is simply by finding another partner, or putting the health of the group over their own personal relationship issues, or if none of these is a possibility then taking a bit of a break and visiting some relatives for a while. I'm not saying that emotional attachments wouldn't be formed, but that it's likely that the Dalish (as a whole) teach their kids to bounce back quicker because the health of the clan requires them to be able to quickly forget grudges.

 

And, from a wider perspective, not every culture sees sex the same way. Even within Thedas. Heck, the Qunari don't even link sex to emotional attachment. Circle mages are discouraged from forming emotional attachments (not permitted to get married or have kids) but are allowed to have all the sex they want. It depends a lot on the environment. Very little about humans (or, well, nonhuman but sentient peoples in this case) is inherently true, and that's something that Bioware was able to capture very well.

 

I agree with what you've said, but I have to point out that Circle mages are allowed to marry and have children.  Wynne points this out to a female mage Warden if you're in a relationship with Alistair.

 

EDIT:  And now that I've caught up with the thread, I realize that this has already been addressed.  

[madrar]

Except Cole doesn't decide to change for himself.  You decide to change him.  That kinda bothers me tbh.

 

That's necessary for gameplay reasons, though: they have to make the choice feel viable either way, which it wouldn't be if Cole directly stated what he wanted.   Everything outside that particular setup points to him trying to learn how to interact and help on a human level.  The inference being that he does want to become "real". 

[Patchwork]

Except Cole doesn't decide to change for himself.  You decide to change him.  That kinda bothers me tbh.

 

This. I'd feel better about the choice if we could talk to Cole about it.

 

On the spirit path it's like he's letting go of the real Cole's pain, the pain that pulled him across the Fade and defined who he was in the waking world. He's now himself, whatever that means. 

[BoscoBread]

 

I want to play!

 

Lavellan after the ball: "Discover me like John Donne discovers America!" (jumps on the bed fist in the air!)

 

He does.

Solas would greatly approve of the John Donne reference.  I headcanon that they do the do after Adamant.  They have a big argument - because Solas greatly disapproves - and then make up sex. 

 

On a more sappy note: The other reason why I don't headcanon they slept after the balcony scene is that it's about 20x more romantic that his internal monologue is all "**** it. I don't care if she loves me me back. I don't care if all she wants is sex..  I love this woman and i'm telling her."  So he says it,  drops the mic and walks off.  Leaving your Inquisitor breathless.  

[Adynata]

I tried both in different playthroughs and I thought Cole seemed happier as a spirit and more in pain as a human, so the latter seemed unnatural to me. I had to agree with Solas in this case that changing Cole to be something more like myself isn't right, regardless of how uncomfortable his presence makes people. I have to embrace who he is as a spirit in order for Cole to learn how to love himself. Changing him and trying to convince him to love himself this new way is like forcing a prosthetic on someone who thinks it's too uncomfortable, but wears in when you're around so that you don't feel uncomfortable.

[Liedeke]

I find it funny that even though this is the Solas topic, there is a lot of talk about Cole (not complaining, I love it)

Those two are linked or something.

[Liedeke]

As for the which path Cole takes. I love both, but I prefer human, not even sure why, but to me it feels better.

[jellobell]

I agree with what you've said, but I have to point out that Circle mages are allowed to marry and have children.  Wynne points this out to a female mage Warden if you're in a relationship with Alistair.

Yeah, someone directed me to a Gaider quote where he said that the chantry could be petitioned to allow circle mages to marry, but I'm not sure about the kids thing. Didn't wynne specifically say that her child was taken away from her? I've never seen any indication of the circles allowing parents and children to stay together.

 

Okay, gone through Wynne's banter. Here's what she says about marriage (to Alistair).

Alistair: So tell me, you have any children? Grandchildren? I don't know, great grandchildren?

Wynne: What would make you think I have any children at all? You have to know I've spent most of my life in the Circle of Magi.

Alistair: You just seem like the grandmotherly type to me, I don't know.

Wynne: I suppose I'll take that as a comment on my demeanor and not my age.

Alistair: Mages aren't forbidden to marry or anything, are they? It's not such an outlandish question.

Wynne: Isn't it? What sort of man would marry a mage, do you think?

Alistair: How about another mage? There are just as many men as there are women within the Circle, as I recall.

Wynne: That sort of union is... not encouraged. Although that does not stop us from seeking out each other's... company from time to time.

Alistair: I... all right, suddenly you don't seem quite so grandmotherly to me anymore.

Wynne: Good. I would hope not.

 

 

And about children.

 

Alistair: So you... mentioned you had a son? What happened to him?

Wynne: I honestly don't know, Alistair. He was... taken from me. Such births are seldom, as there are ways to prevent it, but it does happen. And any child born to a Circle mage belongs to the Chantry.

Alistair: I... didn't know. I'm sorry.

Wynne: It's all right. It was a long time ago. A very long time ago.

Alistair: Couldn't you do something about it?

Wynne: Do what? I was weak from the birthing process and there were... no, there was nothing I could do.

Alistair: Do you think about him?

Wynne: All the time.

 

 

So, like Gaider said, marriages are technically allowed but looked down upon. It also requires that one be in good standing with the chantry. And any children belong to the chantry and are taken upon their birth.

[caridounette]

I caved to Solas-pressure on my initial playthrough, but I think my eventual canon run will side with Varric.  One of Solas' inferred beliefs is that people have a Place in the Universe that cannot, or should not, be changed.  It's where the core tenets of the Qun went horribly wrong, and I think that's a belief that needs challenging.  

 

Solas: " This is not some fanciful story, Child of the Stone. We cannot change our nature simply by wishing."

 

Not by wishing, true- but Cole can decide to change, and by deciding he actually makes it so.   Cole shapes himself with every choice he makes.  

 

I think Solas could use the reminder that this holds true for everyone.  Even himself.   

 

I cant stand Solas going all 'child of the Stone' on Varric. :S

/sigh why do I still like him so much 

 

On an other note, I think that the 'forcing change on Cole' is just as much an issue as 'bringing Cole back to his original state' is.

 

Either way, you do force the decision on him, one way or the other because he is in an in between state at that point, wether you make him realize 'what he truly is' or 'what he can become'. No answer is less imposing then the other. Bringing him back toward the spirit side seems less painful then changing at first, but it seems you make more of a relationship with him going more human in the end. Hes great either way.

[NightSymphony]

http://justanor.devi...ellan-508268618

 

I love his smile

[Eivuwan]

http://justanor.devi...ellan-508268618

 

I love his smile

 

He loves her so much, he gave her his hair.

[dragondreamer]

I find it funny that even though this is the Solas topic, there is a lot of talk about Cole (not complaining, I love it)

Those two are linked or something.

 

Cole is my Lavellan's adopted son with Solas, so Cole always feels relevant to me.

[Patchwork]

Although it's not my IQ's motivation for making him a spirit there is the thought that together he and Cassandra could help the tranquil who want their connection to the Fade restored. 

[Elessara]

That's necessary for gameplay reasons, though: they have to make the choice feel viable either way, which it wouldn't be if Cole directly stated what he wanted.   Everything outside that particular setup points to him trying to learn how to interact and help on a human level.  The inference being that he does want to become "real". 

 

Yeah they deliberately made the quest have no right or wrong choice.  Cole is happy either way but for different reasons.

[Liedeke]

Cole is my Lavellan's adopted son with Solas, so Cole always feels relevant to me.

 

I see him more as a best friend or something. But yeah, I get what you say, haha.

 

Cole is always relevant

[Giton]

Solas would greatly approve of the John Donne reference.  I headcanon that they do the do after Adamant.  They have a big argument - because Solas greatly disapproves - and then make up sex. 

 

On a more sappy note: The other reason why I don't headcanon they slept after the balcony scene is that it's about 20x more romantic that his internal monologue is all "**** it. I don't care if she loves me me back. I don't care if all she wants is sex..  I love this woman and i'm telling her."  So he says it,  drops the mic and walks off.  Leaving your Inquisitor breathless.  

Giton greatly approves.

 

Honestly, I am open to any and all places in space and time (within the game) he might "discover" her. Or something. 

[Oswin]

Catching up with this thread and now I have the music from Neverending Story in my head 

 

I was really young when I first saw that film. Artax and that damn swamp... You think you've gotten over it, then you go and play SoTC and it pulls the same hurt and it all comes flooding back.

 

Don't ever name you horse something beginning with A... 

The feels. The crippling feels.

 

 

I will admit, I didn't like him at first. But,after talking to him in Skyhold and doing his personal quest, Solas has grown on me. Still no hope for Vivienne though. 

 

Vivienne won me over when I took her to Redcliffe to meet Fiona and she pulled out the line:

"Fiona dear, your dementia is showing"

 

I snorted.

 

You know what's a lot of work? Wandering around the Hissing wastes. So. Much. Walking.

 

I spent so long trying to find all those tombs the first time. Then on my nightmare run I decided to find that chant woman all four times. Even with the help of guides I only found her three times and after almost 2 hours I lost the will to live. I went to see what the so called 'amazing' bow was she gave you and realised it was crap in comparison to the one I had crafted. So much time wasted. Why did I not look up the bow stats to begin with!? That'll teach me.

 

 

As for Cole. I find it one of the harder decisions of the game. I thought the spirit choice would be better and the first scene you get with him made me all happy. The second did not. It broke my heart a bit. 

But when I made him a human I felt bad when he kept saying it hurt. The scenes with him were nice though and I liked my Inquisitor and Cole sitting on the barracks together. But then I also feel kinda bad for changing who he is.

 

Y so difficult!? I just love that weirdo so much. I wish my quizzy could hug him, but I don't he'd appreciate that 

[Liedeke]

Indeed! Solas is a person (well, god; whatever) who loves and understands spirits, and Cole is a spirit who is very much like a person. They are both considered the "strangest" by the other companions, and seem to understand and communicate better with each other than anyone else. They also understand the Fade, Breach, rifts, demons and spirits running around better than any other party member. They were both also written by Patrick Weekes, so there's that. =)

 

As for whether to make him more Spirit or Human, it really depends on the player and/or the Inquisitor.

 

Earlier today we were talking about whether we think Solas and Lavellan "did the deed" or not, and many people pointed out that Patrick Weekes has said he kept it vague so players can decide for themselves. Likewise, when asked about Cole's character development, he said (in the NerdAppropriate interview) he deliberately wrote it so it wouldn't feel like there was one right answer. That it can go either way; you can make him more of a spirit or more human, and both have their pros and cons. It just depends on how the person feels is the best route at the time or in general.

I agree, it's up to the player. I like both paths. None are wrong.

In the Cole topic I talked about that a little.

 

It just makes me so happy that this game is so flexible about those things. You are not evil or something is you make a certain decision. They all have their pro's and con's. I love it.

[Elven_Glory]

Cole is my Lavellan's adopted son with Solas, so Cole always feels relevant to me.

I have also taken on this head cannon. My Lavellan had a brother that was significantly younger than she was and she was very nurturing toward him, so it felt very natural to her to take Cole under her wing. She got really offended when Blackwall said something about Varric having adopted him and never invited Blackwall on any other quests as a result. She also left him to die in Orlais, but that was because she detests liars. Makes me wonder what will happen when she finally finds out about Solas... then again, Solas never actually lied... exactly...

[arlofthan]

just curious, is there canon information on what solas looked like when he was young?

[Sah291]

I caved to Solas-pressure on my initial playthrough, but I think my eventual canon run will side with Varric.  One of Solas' inferred beliefs is that people have a Place in the Universe that cannot, or should not, be changed.  It's where the core tenets of the Qun went horribly wrong, and I think that's a belief that needs challenging.  
 
Solas: " This is not some fanciful story, Child of the Stone. We cannot change our nature simply by wishing."
 
Not by wishing, true- but Cole can decide to change, and by deciding he actually makes it so.   Cole shapes himself with every choice he makes.  
 
I think Solas could use the reminder that this holds true for everyone.  Even himself.

I agree with this. Well, I'm half and half on the idea of having a nature that can't be changed. I think people do have a nature, and being forced to go against that nature results in unhappiness. But I do think change is possible too. It is just something that can only come from within an individual, and can't be made so just by wishing.

  

Except Cole doesn't decide to change for himself.  You decide to change him.  That kinda bothers me tbh.

You change him either way...either encouraging him to be more pure spirit, or more human, he ends up changed from what he was before. But to be honest. I don't think we are really doing anything. Cole asks for your help, and you give him the chance....but all the work comes from Cole in the end. All you really do is help him believe it is possible.

Anyway I think Weekes said there is no right or wrong answer with this one. They both have positives and both are not perfect. He loses and gains something either way.

[OxidantsHappen]

just curious, is there canon information on what solas looked like when he was young?

 

How young are we talking?