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[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[madrar]

So weird thought that came to me right as I was about to fall to sleep and it hit me and I need to write it down so I don't forget it.

 

We mentioned today the hilarity of June being the betrayer, the one who orchestrated the downfall of the Elvhen Pantheon and how, if he were Sandal, he'd be the last one we would suspect. There are strange things about June. There are few depictions of him. He is said to have created himself despite being called the sibling to Sylaise and Andruil. His tools associated with him changed over time and were clearly foreign to what was common amongst the elves. Moreover, he had few if any depictions or presence within the elven pantheon narrative the further you go back in time. His vallaslin is clearly from a different shape language from the others - it lacks the sinuous, delicate, or fluid hand of the others. His is practically approached with monoline and little line weight variation. The background of his mosaic is practically dwarven in style.

BEWARE ALL WHO CLICK HERE. I have literally no idea what I typed or am typing and this is LITERALLY a pre-sleep thought. I give it NO water. So if you're into tinfoil hat theories to the MAX then open this. If not, please move right along. I will be the OPPOSITE of offended. Grateful, actually.

Spoiler

BED-TIME CRAZY THEORY:

The reason there are two elven pantheon members who aren't listed among the Old Gods (if you subscribe to that theory) is because they weren't there when **** went down. And the reason they weren't there when **** went down is because Fen'Harel had left to hunt the Traitor. The traitor being.. June. Let's entertain the thought that June was a dwarf lifted to the Elven Pantheon, lifted from his people and away from the stone in a way he never truly forgave. Perhaps they plucked him from a failing Titan he had been a part of or lead. Perhaps he was merely the greatest enchanter of his time or the original forger of the Anvil of the Void.

 

He's the one who convinces Andruil to go off into the Void and hunt the Forgotten Ones - the forgotten Dwarven Gods. We know that worship of the stone is actually relatively new to them and the Primeval Thaig featured places of worship to Gods unknown. Perhaps he hopes to usurp them. Perhaps he hopes that they have the key to either restoring the Titans or to power yet untapped (my vote is restoring the Titans). He helps forge Andruil's armor with his anvil in secret - perhaps is intrigued by the conversion of lyrium to red lyrium but keeps a safe distance and allows her to be his guinea pig. He pretends to be as surprised as anyone when she brings darkness upon their land and Mythal is forced to subdue her. Andruil is defeated, her armor and knowledge of the Void taken from her. Mythal becomes infected.

 

Falon'Din becomes his next target, his next attempt at using these Elven Gods to achieve his ends, and attempts to do so in a way much more subtle than the last. Falon'Din culls the slaves and followers of other Gods who refuse to worship him, lessening the power of the Gods. What murder and sacrifice he accomplished with blood magic thinning the veil to a breaking point. The other Gods defeat his forces over time, finally cornering and bloodying him in the antechamber of his own temple.

Slaves begin to voice their deep dissatisfaction with the elvhen dreamer gods and how quickly they fall to corruption and madness. Some call for a rebellion. Others for reason. The Elvhen Empire being what it is, takes FOREVER to address their concerns. Public discontent grows over the inaction.

 

June approaches Ghilal'nain, who he knows is desperate to restore Andruil, and offers to help find a way to restore Andruil to her former self IF she helps him build an army capable of protecting the people should another one of them fall to madness, pointing at symptoms of Mythal's infection. He offers her information about the Titans and their hive mind, convinces her to use a little of the knowledge of the void to make her creation stronger. June endeavours to find a way to control them, to lead, and guide them beyond a force of mass destruction and turns towards the song of the stone or lyrium. Together, they accidentally craft the darkspawn. 

 

The Darkspawn prove more difficult to control, far from the Titan June had hoped to recreate, and he panics. There has to be something, some way he can draw the Darkspawn away from him until he learns to fix it. To regain what was lost. He gets more radical groups of slaves fighting for their freedom to turn to him and the Forgotten Ones in desperation. But it's all a ploy. Another experiment to fix what went wrong.

Cities fall to taint. The possible slave rebellion changes from a noble act of rebellion to a free-for-all as some succumb to June. More gods get infected. **** is going the hell down.

 

And.. the rest is kind of fuzzy, but maybe infected Mythal from the fight with Andruil was already acting as a beacon to the Darkspawn and they were already seeking her out. Perhaps this is what gets the rest of the pantheon to betray her. Who knows, maybe June was the lover?

But in the end here's my thought: Mythal gets killed, remainder of spirit goes into the dragon. The Darkspawn descend underground immediately after her. Fen'Harel suggests the other gods become dragons as well to keep the darkspawn from overflooding the surface. He gets permission to seal the corrupted Elvhen cities are behind Eluvians to keep them safe from the taint. Fen'Harel is the last member of the pantheon remaining. His last act being to seek out June and kill him for all who had been lost.

June's soul doesn't die however, it passes to someone else, and in time, ends up in Sandal. But the vessel is lyrium addled and thereby unable to continue June's work. Mythal haunts his dreams. Laughs at him and his feeble attempts to escape justice for what he has done. He aids the Hero of Ferelden and the Champion of Kirkwall. But who does he avoid? The Herald. Empowered with the same force as the Gods he once befriended and later betrayed. The Inquisitor. Aided and guided by the very man who killed him once before.

 

TL;DR I am so sorry for this pre-sleep ramble of text that will make sense to no one. I apologize that I am subjecting you all to it. It likely has so many flaws and no a lick of reference to canon. My dream brain is just super excited by the idea that Andruil wasn't REALLY the big bad we make her out to be. She and her insanity were merely pawns to distract the rest of the pantheon from the one who pulled the strings.

I put no faith in this thing. It's just there. Because I am tired and lacking the prescience to realize this is all a horrible idea. Poke at it. Kill it. SLAY IT LIKE THE DRAGON IT IS. I'll see you all in the morning.

 

*slams her hands on the table*

 

WHY AM I ALL OUT OF LIKES.   THIS HAS TO BE WIKIFIED.

[OxidantsHappen]

I'm really curious as to what the Old God prisons actually looking like. How do the darkspawn break in? Or is just touching the prison enough to wake up the Old God and corrupt it? (Pretty awful prison, if you ask me.)

If the Wardens ever could marshal the forces to cut their way to an Old God without alerting them, how would they break in?

I like the idea that June screwed up and caused a ton of problems, and then teamed up with Solas in desperation to prevent the end of the world.

The line Solas has talking about the flaw in sharing power, "I can still see the lines of her face," or something like that makes me suspect either Andruil, Ghilan'nain, or Sylvaise. But Andruil doesn't strike me as a full on villain. A jackass, certainly. Tainted by the Void and the Blight, yes.

So Sylvaise foolishly manipulating the other Creators, June just experimenting with runes and magic, and Ghilan'nain going full cackling mad-scientist. Maybe June was trying to make an alternate source of magic, as the Taint?

Banalhan. Place where the Blight originates. Also the place of nothing, yes? Sounds like the elves attribute the Blight to the Void.

I think it's getting close to my crazy theory bedtime too. 

 

 Wasn't there also a theory about June actually being a she? And as far as breaking into the old god prisons... you could try knocking politely? They never give us that option in video games.  Especially if you're just like "I brought hummus" when Andruil asks who's there.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[Blackout62]

 Wasn't there also a theory about June actually being a she? And as far as breaking into the old god prisons... you could try knocking politely? They never give us that option in video games.  Especially if you're just like "I brought hummus" when Andruil asks who's there.

 

"Hummus delivery."

 

"Finally. We've been waiting so long. It's been like millennia."

[Caddius]

 Wasn't there also a theory about June actually being a she? And as far as breaking into the old god prisons... you could try knocking politely? They never give us that option in video games.  Especially if you're just like "I brought hummus" when Andruil asks who's there.

You never took the Consular route in the Jedi written exam in KotOR.   

The Architect definitely knocked on Urthemiel's prison to ask him politely if he wanted to become a Grey Warden Archdemon. And Urthemiel responded in song that he really just wanted a few more centuries for his beauty sleep, then he'd be perfectly happy to accommodate his old High Priest. 

Liz: The Quickening is still up in the air, ain't it? Maybe being bound to Mythal is like the Guardian in the Temple of Sacred Ashes? Hell, it might even literally be the same. Immortality in return for immortal service. And then Solas is a god, something more than an elf. Possibly.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[Rabbitonfire]

They do it ALL THE TIME and I'm frankly insulted. XD Two of my uncles are bald, and they're the best handwarmers ever. And, they're awesome, lovely people. The only good men in my life.

 

I'm also upset that there is a mod out that removes Solas' freckles. I try not to be bothered by it but...I have freckles. If someone dislikes Solas' freckles enough to remove them (and they're barely visible in the first place), I wonder what they're thinking when they look at people with freckles as well.

Well freckles are associated with gingers and we all know gingers have no soul. Almost every single depiction of solas in fanart has him without his freckles. It's no different from people adding defined abs.

 

Hmm.. Is it any more shallow than Solas removing your face tattoos? Almost told the truth about himself and the first thing to dodge it was to complain about your face.

 

To each their own, I have freckles so view them as flaws no better than skin blemishes or a stray hair from the brow. It's just something you deal with. Though It's light in the winter and darkens in the summer because sun. Strangely, I had one person who didn't even know I had freckles. It's like they blocked it from their memories while spending years together then when you are apart for an extended amount of time, your brain resets. talk about adaptability.

[Rabbitonfire]

"Hummus delivery."

 

"Finally. We've been waiting so long. It's been like millennia."

Elvhens did everything slow. Even delivery.

[Caddius]

OH GOD NO. I REGRET EVERYTHIIIIIIING~!!

But seriously. I think all of my other thoughts I've brought to the table are far more well researched and grounded in some form of reality. Look there first! This one is just a thought that I shared perhaps way too prematurely before cutting out the excess/ trimming the fat of bad concepts.

In fact, Caddius likely did that for me with June + Ghilal'nain = darkspawn. That's the only one I feel good about because of how it makes SENSE when you compare:

"Oh hey, let's make Golems... BUT WITH FLESH!" ---> Harvesters

to
"Oh hey, let's make Titans ... BUT WITH FLESH!" ---> Darkspawn

On that topic.

Golems of Amgarrak.

The Fade portals, the golems, the magic, the Harvester. 

Everything.

I feel like Golems of Amgarrak was the Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets of Dragon Age and its DLC. It seems like a cool side-story with some creepy stuff, but it doesn't seem to relate directly to the main story.

Until later.

It's been awhile since I've played that. I just remember being frustrated that it wasn't expanded upon later, even with Orsino's random transforming into a Harvester.

[LliiraAnna]

I've been thinking about the whole "dragons are resistant to the Taint" thing. Now, ofc this could be attributed to "magical dragon blood", but why would they need to be resistant in the first place? Things usually become resistant/immune to... things... that are a danger on an every-day basis. Meaning, the dragons must have been exposed to the Taint for a long time to develop their resistance?   

[Sashimi_taco]

Just want to point out that it's adorable to me that Rift Mage icon looks like a Cthulhu. Subtle hints abound. 

[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[Rabbitonfire]

Just want to point out that it's adorable to me that Rift Mage icon looks like a Cthulhu. Subtle hints abound. 

I'm glad I wasn't the only one that thought that was unusual. But what are the hints toward?

[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[Caddius]

Also strange thought. Perhaps Uthenera was a way to share the years of one's life - you slept so that others could live those years. And when you awoke, others would sleep so you could live. Everyone contributing to the extended lifespan of them all. 

That sounds likely. I think Solas says magic was an effect of immortality rather than its cause, but it makes sense to me. As does Uthenera being largely responsible for lengthening their lives, and it being lost with the fall of Arlathan.

Jumping a bit, can dwarves be possessed normally?

The demon still holding onto the corpse of the dwarf lord in The Calling struck me as very interesting.

As does Malvernis.

I really want more dwarf centric content.

[Rabbitonfire]

That sounds likely. I think Solas says magic was an effect of immortality rather than its cause, but it makes sense to me. As does Uthenera being largely responsible for lengthening their lives, and it being lost with the fall of Arlathan.

Jumping a bit, can dwarves be possessed normally?

The demon still holding onto the corpse of the dwarf lord in The Calling struck me as very interesting.

As does Malvernis.

I really want more dwarf centric content.

Dwarves are a majestic and brilliant race.Why wouldn't you want to know more about them. Dwarves can be possessed but they're no more desirable than possessing a tranquil or a table. I'm guessing demons would prefer a body that has some connection with the fade with the most desirable being mages.

 

What I want to see more of are the dwarves of kal sharok. They look like the blight, their governing system is different, they view paragons with idealistic minds rather than previous achievements. I like the stories and war table quest relating to them.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[LliiraAnna]

Well, Zathrian obtained immortality in return for an immortal curse, did he not?

So while I'm not onboard for everyone needing to be bound in immortal service, I think there might be something to be said for the maintenance of long standing spells or enchantments or magic threaded and interwoven through the ages prolonging the lives of those who contributed their mana to it. 

 

Also strange thought. Perhaps Uthenera was a way to share the years of one's life - you slept so that others could live those years. And when you awoke, others would sleep so you could live. Everyone contributing to the extended lifespan of them all. 

But Solas says that elven immortality had nothing to do with magic.

 

Ofc, if we throw that aside, the Quickening could really be explained by elves starting to live together with humans. Humans have shorter lifespans, so they obviously cannot wait for 10 years to cast a single spell. Elves are forced to adapt, and either replace old spells with new, quicker ones, or just "quicken" them somehow. Making them quicker to cast in return for a lesser effect, perhaps. But by doing so, they also remove whatever magical ties that are keeping them immortal.

 

They also possibly didn't have time to go into Uthenera

 

...Hm. If they went into Uthenera when their mind "became tired"... but then they met humans, and humans were too interesting to observe and too energetic for elves to become bored... so they stopped going into Uthenera... this could explain things too. If Uthenera really had something to do with immortality, that is.

 

The closest thing I can think of to the dwarf equivalent of an abomination is.. the profane. Which I don't understand. At all. And would love your opinion on.

From their codex entry:

 

We who are forgotten, remember,

We clawed at rock until our fingers bled,

We cried out for justice, but were unheard.

Our children wept in hunger,

And so we feasted upon the gods.

Here we wait, in aeons of silence.

We few, we profane.

 

—Found scrawled on a wall in the lost Revann Thaig by explorer Faruma Helmi, 5:10 Exalted. Unknown author.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[Caddius]

 

But Solas says that elven immortality had nothing to do with magic.

 

Ofc, if we throw that aside, the Quickening could really be explained by elves starting to live together with humans. Humans have shorter lifespans, so they obviously cannot wait for 10 years to cast a single spell. Elves are forced to adapt, and either replace old spells with new, quicker ones, or just "quicken" them somehow. Making them quicker to cast in return for a lesser effect, perhaps. But by doing so, they also remove whatever magical ties that are keeping them immortal.

 

They also probably didn't have time to properly go into Uthenera 

 

...Hm. If they went into Uthenera when their mind "became tired"... but then they met humans, and humans were too interesting to observe and too energetic for elves to become bored... so they stopped going into Uthenera... this could explain things, too. If Uthenera really had something to do with immortality, that is.

 

From their codex entry:

 

We who are forgotten, remember,

We clawed at rock until our fingers bled,

We cried out for justice, but were unheard.

Our children wept in hunger,

And so we feasted upon the gods.

Here we wait, in aeons of silence.

We few, we profane.

 

—Found scrawled on a wall in the lost Revann Thaig by explorer Faruma Helmi, 5:10 Exalted. Unknown author.

 

In 5:10 Exalted, the armies of the White Divine retreat from Tevinter in the latest change of the tide in the Exalted Marches of the Schism, Calenhad is born around this time, and the Grey Wardens build a fortress in Denerim along with various small outposts, after signing treaties with the Alamarri teyrns.

Probably irrelevant. This is shortly before the Fourth Blight begins, as well. As in two years.

Which could point to the darkspawn massing in certain areas of the Deep Roads in preparation for the Blight, if it was found in a lost thaig. Or it could be coincidence. The fact that the Revann Thaig is very interesting. The Primeval Thaig gets no name.

I'm not sure what to think of the Profane. I'm guessing Blight tainted dwarves or elves who ate the red lyrium/corrupted Titans out of desperation and were twisted into monsters?

EDIT: Namely, dwarves quarantined by their fellows for fear of the Blight. Namely, the references to 'clawing at rock' and 'crying out for justice'.

[jellobell]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one that thought that was unusual. But what are the hints toward?

Stare at Solas for too long and he breaks your brain.

 

But actually, I recall PW describing the elven gods in the nerdappropriate podcast as something like "beings beyond mortal comprehension" (not a direct quote). And all of the codex entries from the Temple of Mythal and the entire Temple of Dirthamen gave me distinct Cosmic Horror vibes. So...take that as you will.

[Little Mama]

Morning! _{(yes it's morning in the north now)}

3 pages since I left so I'll just leap right in... _{(Still a demanding headache, I seriously think my heads plotting to kill me now)}

 

But... who ever said it was "all about that"? That's quite a leap. To me it's absolutely not a big deal. However in my mind there's no way he left Lavellan's quarters after "ar lath ma, vhenan." He just went inside to jump on the bed springs and test them for Fadewalking readiness.

Anyway, I see you bowed out, and don't want to belabor it, there are no hard feelings. It's a game and a fictional character. Also not all of us are teenagers.    In my view, Bioware left it ambiguous because with Solas deceiving Lavellan all along and then jilting her, some players could feel exploited and if there had been an overt physical element depicted, squicked out by it. That's what some people say about Blackwall's romance, for instance.
 

Heh. His all purpose nerdy pickup line. Did someone figure out if it's iambic pentamenter? It probably is.

 

12 new replies since I started this post. Good lord.

 

I'd admit I hadn't thought about it like that. To me he just confessed how he felt and then left, for that not to happen. But looking at it I can see how it's easy to make something else into it. My IQ still didn't though. 

But as I said before I'd taken my mind out of this discussion, but here I am at it again... 

Like you said, not all of us are teenagers. I guess being with the same man for ten years and having kids change the way you think about love. That there's more to it than just desire, like trust and understanding. As I said before, I feel in love with his morals and personality, before I even knew about his godhood.

And now I feel old again

 

I prefer thinking that they didn't 
I kinda enjoy how somehow he always keeps her on her toes immediately after saying such sweet things.. it makes him feel more mysterious and I imagine my Lavellan having these explosions of feelings inside.. like when you want to reach for something so tempting but at the same time you don't because it's like.. dunno.. spoiling it..

Or maybe I'm weird.
Solas: "I love you, my heart." *turns his back on her and leaves the room*
Lavellan: nnnnnnnh... *sighs inside* you tempting egg.. get back here now!

But aside from jokes.. to me it's like it went beyond sex.. like they had such a strong emotional connection that it wasn't even needed. Dunno.

 

 

This is what I'd wanted to say. You took the word out of my mouth...

Not saying that it wouldn't have happened if he'd stayed though.   _{Guess I have to put it all into a fanfic  My aching heads already working.}

 

One thing that drives my nuts; How do insert images in this forum? I tried yesterday _{(had a very sad Solas with a broken orb)} but didn't manage to make it work... 

 

For what path to take with Cole I choose spirit. It's his natural state. To change him feels wrong. I thought about it like this. If you try to alter a sprits essence, you may turn it into a demon. Like with Solas friend. Not saying that's what happens to Cole, but that's how I looked at it.

[LliiraAnna]

Stare at Solas for too long and he breaks your brain.

 

But actually, I recall PW describing the elven gods in the nerdappropriate podcast as something like "beings beyond mortal comprehension" (not a direct quote). And all of the codex entries from the Temple of Mythal and the entire Temple of Dirthamen gave me distinct Cosmic Horror vibes. So...take that as you will.

Not to mention the mosaics. To me, they look more like... aliens than elves there.