153434 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

I have not played it all and only know YouTube videos, so I am curious: how do you prevent that barn scene with Blackwall (without breaking up, of course)? What happens then? Same question regarding Dorian.

In the discussion prior to that scene, you have an option to say "let's celebrate with friends" or invite him to spend the night together. Earlier there's a scene where he comes to the Inquisitor's boudoir and they end up backed against a railing, but that's a fade to black as well.

[jellobell]

I also can't really respect her accomplishments when she got there by sleeping with a duke and considers it natural for the rest of the mages to be locked up. That puts her in Wynne category for me.

That's...no. You can't just get to the position she was in by sleeping with the right man. Especially in Orlais. In the Game, nothing is an accident. One not only has to reach a position of power, but hold it. That requires an incredible amount of political savvy. Not only that, but she did that as a mage. Mages are allowed zero political standing in Thedas, unless they're a Grey Warden. Most of them are a small step above being property. They are hideously vulnerable to abuses of power (and a related incident in Vivienne's past is hinted as being the reason why she is the way she is). Before Vivienne, the Court Enchanter was a glorified jester. She turned it into a position of true power, the first mage to ever do so. Say what you like about Vivienne, but she is nothing if not competent.

 

And as for thinking mages should be locked up, Vivienne is the product of the environment she grew up in. She's not an Anders. She doesn't think that mages will be any better off if they completely tear down the system. She thinks that the best way for a mage to ensure their own safety and comfort is by working within the system, which is what she's done. She's also internalized chantry teachings about how mages are inherently dangerous. She sees every mage, including herself, as an abomination waiting to happen. And really, given that the purpose of the circle is to mould the minds of mages from the time that they are children to think of themselves in that way, is it any wonder? She is what the circle has made her, for good or ill. As Solas says, she has "learned her lessons well". That's partly why Vivienne frustrates Solas so much. She has such a brilliant mind, but the teachings of the circle have, in his estimation, caged it within a mindset designed to make mages fear themselves. Vivienne distrusts spirits, demons, the Fade, and most of all her own magic. 

[nranola]

I swear, I come into the thread in the most unfortunate times. 

 

Wanted to throw my two cents in on the Cole choice. It's a quality vs quantity thing, in a way. By being more human, he's able to understand more the people he's helping, but his reach is rather limited. By being more spirit, he's able to help a significantly larger amount of people, but the manner of help he can give is limited to whispers here and there. Both have their pros and cons, but Cole is happy either way, and that's the most important thing to me.

 

Making the choice didn't feel like I was forcing him into anything, either. Cole seemed to be hovering squarely in the middle of spirit and human by the time his quest rolls around. Poor baby just needed a little nudge in either direction.

 

And again, I have to highlight the brilliance of the writing. No one choice that screams "I AM THE BEST ONE THE ONLY ONE". There's different ways to interpret the choices we make, all of them valid! I love it!

 

Wasn't it Weekes who wrote for Cole as well? This is making me hopeful about future Solas-related decisions.

[maia0407]

Then stab him and say "Psych, My world is worth saving.". Throwing in Dalish Rule somewhere and say "You won't die alone, you can bed with the maggots".

 

 

 

edit:word selection

lol! Poor Solas! I suspect I'll still love him even if he blows up his version of the chantry!

[Colonelkillabee]

Disagree. I'm not going to go into all the sexist undertones again but they are there. And, please, don't try to tone check me. Too much of that happens when questions of sexism comes up.

Please do. PM me if you don't want to disrupt the thread but I'd love to know what I said that was sexist.

[Sah291]

He's a jaded idealist. He knows things are complicated, but he wishes they weren't. I think that's why he loves the Fade so much. It's pure purpose, ideals made real. In the Fade, nothing distinguishes what you believe from what is. Aw, Solas. I bet he wishes he could let go, but he just can't. He envies Sera's ability to not give a sh*t about either the past or future, and Spirit!Cole's ability to make himself forget.

 

Yeah, the sad part is he seems to know it too. Which makes me wonder if he doesn't see himself as enslaved somehow. It's as if he thinks that's a choice which has been taken away from him, or decided for him. Whether it is due to some obligation he has, or something else.

[Siha]

Please do. PM me if you don't want to disrupt the thread but I'd love to know what I said that was sexist.

Oh, please, do disrupt the thread. Now I want to hear the rest of it, too.

[jellobell]

Oh, please, do disrupt the thread. Now I want to hear the rest of it, too.

No. I think we've had quite enough of this particular topic. Take it to PMs if you want to continue, but this is not the place.

[Ajna]

Anyone have the pizza guy gif handy?

[Rabbitonfire]

Oh, please, do disrupt the thread. Now I want to hear the rest of it, too.

Fight, fight, fight!

 

This isn't sarcasm, i genuinely want to see arguments. From an outsider's view, I'd imagine some of the members are a little too in depth to the character and want to see perspective of someone outside the fandom.

[maia0407]

Please do. PM me if you don't want to disrupt the thread but I'd love to know what I said that was sexist.

No thanks. The reasons I find your posts sexist are already in my prior posts. I don't think further discussion in this thread or by PM will be productive; frankly, I just don't feel like making a giant Feminism 101 post to someone that I don't think really cares about the issue.

 

On topic, I just rewatched the winter palace dance scene and noticed that Solas puts his hand on your back when he comes out to talk to you. Never saw that before. Squee!

[Siha]

Fight, fight, fight!

 

This isn't sarcasm, i genuinely want to see arguments. From an outsider's view, I'd imagine some of the members are a little too in depth to the character and want to see perspective of someone outside the fandom.

Jellobell said no.

[Rabbitonfire]

Anyone have the pizza guy gif handy?

No idea but I like this. Appearing to be condescending but genuinely enjoyed the play performed by wifey.

Spoiler

[nranola]

On topic, I just rewatched the winter palace dance scene and noticed that Solas puts his hand on your back when he comes out to talk to you. Never saw that before. Squee!

 

Got a screenshot of that. It's rather sweet.

 

 

Do the other LIs do a similar gesture? I know they all do the raised eyebrow thing going out into the balcony. The hand on back, not so sure.

[Colonelkillabee]

No thanks. The reasons I find your posts sexist are already in my prior posts. I don't think further discussion in this thread or by PM will be productive; frankly, I just don't feel like making a giant Feminism 101 post to someone that I don't think really cares about the issue.

Oh I know plenty about feminism, and I find that generally, people who make statements like this really do feminism a giant disservice in general.

 

Ignoring that since you're bowing out, I want to make a quick point:

 

 

Haha you remind me of nearly every man I ever knew, including my dear husband.

He likes to pretend his opinion is fact too.

 

This. If I ever said anything like this here, in reverse, so many people would jump on my back and call me sexist. No one did this though for her. In fact, she's got several likes for it.

 

You can call me what you want. Stubborn? Hell yea. A jerk? Go ahead. But I am not sexist and you'd be hard pressed to prove it.

[Rabbitonfire]

Jellobell said no.

I'm disappointed. 

[Avejajed]

hm, I'm reading through the thread and see nothing sexist about Colonelkillabee's conversations. You're getting too heated over a disagreement.

 

I don't care much about the sex argument but I have attempted to keep people grounded from the idea what Solas is benevolent that outshines all of his flaws. The attempt is futile since it's like saying tilapia is a poor person's fish because they wanted a cheaper catfish. Sure Tilapia is cheaper but it's still a good fish, sometimes restaurants trick you by listing it like catfish such as if fried. Sometimes I think some are projection themselves on their Lavellans and dreaming about it. 

 

I don't think this is entirely fair. 

 

My problem with this conversation/argument are the sweeping generalizations people on both sides are making.

 

I not only do not think the sun shines out of Solas's bare ass, but I'm certainly not projecting myself onto my Lavellan. I would have dropped him for not putting out ages ago.

 

Put out or get out, I say.

 

I think we also spoke too soon last week about the haters in the thread. lol.

[CapricornSun]

Anyone have the pizza guy gif handy?

 

[LliiraAnna]

I think it's time to stop with the arguments... they are going in circles, it's like beating a dead horse. Let's try to keep this thread nice and friendly 

[jellobell]

Yeah, the sad part is he seems to know it too. Which makes me wonder if he doesn't see himself as enslaved somehow. It's as if he thinks that's a choice which has been taken away from him, or decided for him. Whether it is due to some obligation he has, or something else.

If he does see himself as enslaved, then I get the feeling that he thinks he has only himself to blame for it. He doesn't seem like he holds any particular grudges, not even against the elven gods. He seems to blame himself for...practically everything. Though, to be fair, he seems to keep ending up making mistakes. And god does he know it. Say what you want about his pride, but Solas holds no illusions about just how badly he's f*cked up. 

 

Fight, fight, fight!

 

This isn't sarcasm, i genuinely want to see arguments. From an outsider's view, I'd imagine some of the members are a little too in depth to the character and want to see perspective of someone outside the fandom.

Except that we're no longer talking about the character, and this isn't a thread dedicated to whether Killabee is sexist or not.

[Avejajed]

Can someone link me again to the wiki? I'm at work today so have a little time later for organization.

[almasy87]

There is a book laying on a bed within Haven's Chantry. Title of this book is "The Maker" an within this book I have found a piece of information that puzzles me to a certain degree. Makes me wonder if Solas is actually the Makers second-born child.

 

 

"Then the Maker said:

To you, my second-born, I grant this gift:

In your heart shall burn

An unquenchable flame

All-consuming, and never satisfied.

From the fade I crafted you,

and to the fade you shall return

Each night in dreams

that you may always remember me."

 

 

 

 

All-consuming, and never satisfied - Solas constantly wants to learn more about the fade an he makes friends with spirits. He tells the inquisitor about how nice it would be for the spirits/fade to co-exist with mortal life. His specialization is a Rift-Mage. When Morrigan transforms into a bird an flys after Abelas to stop him from destroying the Well of Sorrows Solas acts as if it doesn't matter at all, like he knows its power is inferior.

 

To the Fade you shall return each night in dreams - We all know that Solas goes into the fade when he sleeps.

 

So with that being said has anyone else thought this or proven it to bare no merrit? I would really like so feedback on this theory I've come up with.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with Solas.
That part of the codex is not complete, there is another one where you can read the full story, it's here if you want: 
 

Canticle of Threnodies, Threnodies 5

 

There was no word
For heaven or for earth, for sea or sky.
All that existed was silence.
Then the Voice of the Maker rang out,
The first Word,
And His Word became all that might be:
Dream and idea, hope and fear,
Endless possibilities.
And from it made his firstborn.
And he said to them:
In My image I forge you,
To you I give dominion
Over all that exists.
By your will
May all things be done.

Then in the center of heaven
He called forth
A city with towers of gold,
streets with music for cobblestones,
And banners which flew without wind.
There, He dwelled, waiting
To see the wonders
His children would create.

The children of the Maker gathered
Before his golden throne
And sang hymns of praise unending.
But their songs
Were the songs of the cobblestones.
They shone with the golden light
Reflected from the Maker's throne.
They held forth the banners
That flew on their own.

And the Voice of the Maker shook the Fade
Saying: In My image I have wrought
My firstborn. You have been given dominion
Over all that exists. By your will
All things are done.
Yet you do nothing. 
The realm I have given you
Is formless, ever-changing.^[10]

And He knew he had wrought amiss.
So the Maker turned from his firstborn
And took from the Fade
A measure of its living flesh
And placed it apart from the Spirits, and spoke to it, saying:
Here, I decree
Opposition in all things:
For earth, sky
For winter, summer
For darkness, Light.
By My Will alone is Balance sundered
And the world given new life.^[11]

And no longer was it formless, ever-changing,
But held fast, immutable,
With Words for heaven and for earth, sea and sky.
At last did the Maker
From the living world
Make men. Immutable, as the substance of the earth,
With souls made of dream and idea, hope and fear,
Endless possibilities.

Then the Maker said:
To you, my second-born, I grant this gift:
In your heart shall burn
An unquenchable flame
All-consuming, and never satisfied.
From the Fade I crafted you,
And to the Fade you shall return
Each night in dreams
That you may always remember me.^[12]

And then the Maker sealed the gates
Of the Golden City
And there, He dwelled, waiting
To see the wonders
His children would create.
-Threnodies 5:1-5:8^[13]

 

I think it's quite clear that it refers to mankind. Or atleast that's how I read it.
In my last PT Leliana came up with that quote when I talked to her after softening her, I thought it was quite sweet but I can't find a video about it :/

PS
How do you do the spoiler tags? I really don't like it when I have to post these wall text of black stuff copied from the wiki

[Addai]

That's...no. You can't just get to the position she was in by sleeping with the right man. Especially in Orlais. In the Game, nothing is an accident. One not only has to reach a position of power, but hold it. That requires an incredible amount of political savvy. Not only that, but she did that as a mage. Mages have zero social standing in Thedas, unless they're a Grey Warden. They are a small step above being property. They are hideously vulnerable to abuses of power (and a related incident in Vivienne's past is hinted as being the reason why she is the way she is). Before Vivienne, the Court Enchanter was a glorified jester. She turned it into a position of true power, the first mage to ever do so. Say what you like about Vivienne, but she is nothing if not competent.

I understand that, but the fact remains, she got to where she was by being someone's mistress. I don't disrespect courtesans as a rule, I played one in an RP and quite liked her. However Vivienne enjoys a freedom she would deny to other mages and would in fact use her influence to lock all of them up if she could. Some humility about her standing relative to others, and how she got there, would have gone a long way in allowing me to respect her. As it is, she's a hypocrite like Wynne.
 

And as for thinking mages should be locked up, Vivienne is the product of the environment she grew up in. She's not an Anders. She doesn't think that mages will be any better off if they completely tear down the system. She thinks that the best way for a mage to ensure their own safety and comfort is by working within the system, which is what she's done. She's also internalized chantry teachings about how mages are inherently dangerous. She sees every mage, including herself, as an abomination waiting to happen. And really, given that the purpose of the circle is to mould the minds of mages from the time that they are children to think of themselves in that way, is it any wonder? She is what the circle has made her, for good or ill. As Solas says, she has "learned her lessons well". That's partly why Vivienne frustrates Solas so much. She has such a brilliant mind, but the teachings of the circle have, in his estimation, caged it within a mindset designed to make mages fear themselves. Vivienne distrusts spirits, demons, the Fade, and most of all her own magic.

I get all that, but have no use for someone like that as a party member. I pity her. If I could change her view, or learn from her, or do anything besides occasionally smirk or eyeroll at her dialogue, that would be different. As far as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong), she never changes her views on anything, even in banter with others. Not even Solas is that inflexible and he has far more cause to be confident in his views.

Like I said, she works better as an NPC in the world rather than a team member.

[Colonelkillabee]

PS
How do you do the spoiler tags? I really don't like it when I have to post these wall text of black stuff copied from the wiki

Use these brackets.

 

[spoiler] first. Then another one, but with a / in front of the word spoiler but behind the bracket. That one goes after what you're hiding.

 

edit

 

like this

 

[spoiler]

Hello

[/ spoiler]

[Rabbitonfire]

I don't think this is entirely fair. 

 

My problem with this conversation/argument are the sweeping generalizations people on both sides are making.

 

I not only do not think the sun shines out of Solas's bare ass, but I'm certainly not projecting myself onto my Lavellan. I would have dropped him for not putting out ages ago.

 

Put out or get out, I say.

 

Except that we're no longer talking about the character, and this isn't a thread dedicated to whether Killabee is sexist or not.

That's true, talking about fish was off topic. Reading back, it seem completely random. There was a point to it but I've forgotten myself. I already see the generalizations have gone off course from the sex topic to a sexism. I can could see the benefit of being ambiguous but sometimes I wish there was a clear line so there is nothing to debate about it.