153434 réponses à ce sujet

[Colonelkillabee]

I don't agree with the majority of what you said about Viv, but I do agree she doesn't bring much to the table. I mean, I can always use a good mage I guess, but beyond that, she seems more useful as an advisory role. But barely, since you're not there to deal with nobles, and Cassandra already shares her POV more or less.

 

Definitely less, but you get the point. With Cullen there, Cass there... there's not much reason for Viv to be around just looking at that, and then using someone like her in a combat role feels rather odd as well, which is why I find myself using Solas and Dorian more times than not even though I like her. Solas has a lot to say obviously about things related to the plot. He, Cole, Dorian, all have a place, while I honestly do not see Vivienne's.

That said, it is useful having a mage share this POV. Very useful for forum debates.

[Rabbitonfire]

Because a lot of us are prideful. No reverse sexism there or anything, it's just the truth.

I guess you could say you have alot of Solas.

[Colonelkillabee]

I guess you could say you have alot of Solas.

One of the reasons I respect him. Can't say I love him as a fan, but I like him and keep him around. I see him as my true adviser when it comes to matters of magic and spirits, since I'm no mage.

 

He's like my Daniel Jackson, lol. Stargate SG-1.

[jellobell]

Sure, and it still all amounts to being a snake in a pit of snakes, and I don't respect her goals, so I don't really need to respect her as a person either.

I'd argue that you don't need to respect her methods or her goals in order to respect the amount of work it must have taken for her to secure her position, but I think this is an Agree to Disagree point.

 

We've got voluminous Chantry types around in the game.

But no circle mages. Personally, I found it fascinating to hear the perspective on the mage rebellion from a mage who did not support it. That's a perspective that you wouldn't have gotten anywhere else. Even Wynne had her grievances with the circle. And the banter concerning circle teaching methods and the limitations thereof with Solas were definitely worth her being a party member. Magical theory is one of the most interesting parts of the lore.

 

 Plenty of them. Since it is the Solas thread, Solas learning to work with a group of people is a huge step for him.

Well I did mention Solas. But my point stands. Most of the party members don't undergo any huge epiphanies during their time with the Inquisition. If you're talking character arcs, then Viv does soften somewhat towards an Inquisitor who gets her to high enough approval. And for Vivienne, who has worked very hard to excise even the suggestion of weakness, this is rather heartwarming. But my favourite his her banter with Cole where he reveals that she does care about him after all, but that she was afraid to commit herself to caring about him because she didn't wish to be hurt. There's also the suggestion that she's a tad jealous of the Inquisitor and their love interest. The Inquisitor has the luxury of choosing their partner for love rather than political advancement, something that Vivienne has never had. However, she also evidently cares very deeply for Duke Bastien, and his death is the only time you see behind the mask. Other than Solas, Vivienne is the most guarded character in the Inquisition.

[Colonelkillabee]

One of the reasons I respect him. Can't say I love him as a fan, but I like him and keep him around. I see him as my true adviser when it comes to matters of magic and spirits, since I'm no mage.

 

He's like my Daniel Jackson, lol. Stargate SG-1.

 

No wait, he's my Merlin!

[Addai]

The more I got to know Viv, the more I liked her.  She has a boatload of flaws but so does every other companion.  It would be wrong to cast her aside because she's selfish. She's incredibly shrewd and plays the Game like no other.  There appears to be a lot of mistresses in Orlais, yet she is the only one that is on the edge of becoming Divine.    As the Inquisitor, she would probably be the one person out of all your companions that you would WANT to be close friends with.  Even if you detest the position of power your elf is in, you are still in that position of power.  Might as well have someone on your side that can actually help you effectively use it.

But... what does she do other than snipe at you if you side with the mages? Maybe I'm missing something, in which case I'd reconsider my stance, but what war table missions does she give you that advance your cause? What noble comes to you and says "I'll help you because Madame Vivienne said so"? Does she get you into the ball? No, it's all Josephine's connections which actually accomplish something. Her personal missions are related to rebuilding the Circle which I could care less about, and her lover which... okay, I really don't care about that either and she gives me no reason to care.

As for being Divine, she's never even put forward as a candidate so that seems a bit out of the blue IMO.

[Avejajed]

The chart predicts that we are in tent and cat stage. I don't like cat kisses so I'll wait until tinfoil theories. There are no apologies in the tinfoil stage.

Who doesn't like cat kisses???

[Hedinve]

*late to the party but barging in to make some sweeping statements about respect*

 

Nobody has got the right to claim that sex devalues a relationship - pixels or real. Nobody has the right to claim that lack of sex devalues a relationship - pixels or real. You may state your preferences on a personal level but don't you dare judge other peoples preferences as long as we are talking two consenting adults. Talking about sex as dirty/base is just as bad as calling people who prefer non-sexual relationships sick or immature.

 

To me a relationship between two adults without sex is absurd, so my HC is Solas and Lavellan had sex in every room in Skyhold, several places at the ball, each and every branch sturdy enough to hold them and every tent in every camp. If your HC is chaste - good for you (in a totally non-sarcastic tone), neither preference has any kind of value above the other.

[RebbyWriter]

I have no idea what is going on so, here. Have a Solas

 

Spoiler

http://ir-tel-him.tu...85318/im-in-the

[Siha]

I guess you could say you have alot of Solas.

Thin ice, very thin ice!

[Sister Squish]

Time for a break from this thread for awhile. Someone call me when the forts and tinfoil theories are back.

 

Don't be sad Ave </3333

 

http://miyku.tumblr.com/

 

 

[Miss This or That]

No wait, he's my Merlin!

 

Well, he could also be your Gandalf, sort of.

 

"You shall not pass up this sweet cake, it is very delightful!"

[AutumnOracle]

That's not a direct quote. Weekes never uses the word "entanglement". You should really listen to the podcast. I have multiple times and I'm still on team optimism. In fact, I think it's rather optimistic overall.

Where can I listen to this?

[jellobell]

But... what does she do other than snipe at you if you side with the mages? Maybe I'm missing something, in which case I'd reconsider my stance, but what war table missions does she give you that advance your cause? What noble comes to you and says "I'll help you because Madame Vivienne said so"? Does she get you into the ball? No, it's all Josephine's connections which actually accomplish something. Her personal missions are related to rebuilding the Circle which I could care less about, and her lover which... okay, I really don't care about that either and she gives me no reason to care.

In a high-approval conversation she expresses concern for the Inquisitor and gives them advice about their position, advising them to make themselves indispensable if they want to hold onto their power. She's worried about the Inquisitor possibly being betrayed (and, as a player of the Game, something she knows very well). It's rather cute, actually. She acted rather like a mother hen. That's what I was referring to when I talked about viv taking my lavellan under her wing in a sense. She wants to help the Inquisitor out with her accumulated political knowledge.

[Kittn]

The chart predicts that we are in tent and cat stage. I don't like cat kisses so I'll wait until tinfoil theories. There are no apologies in the tinfoil stage.

Are we in the cat pictures part? I've got one.

Regarding: Jumping/sliding off mountains and cliffs and ruins and landing on sleeping dragons that was discussed earlier. I usually opt to just slide off mountains and stuff whenever I can because it's fun. I would love a cave or dungeon that was just one big water slide with that mechanic. It'd be fantastic with crazy party banter while avoiding debris and whatnot.

But I digress. This is about a cat picture. And Solas. And how my Lavellan's embarrassing jumps in front of him aren't usually so epic as to land in a dragon's lair a hundred feet below. Nope. Tiger Festival's are more like this:



Where I try to make her jump a fence that is just barely too high. And then I'll try it again. Probably a third time too, because I'm sure I'll clear it that time, even though I could have just walked around the thing by then. Those damn Redcliffe farms fences. UGH.

[Moondreamer01]

He's especially bad about the Qunari, and from what I hear he knows the difference between a Vashoth and a Qunari but still calls your Inquisitor a Qunari, as if it's a blanket term for a race instead of the religion/lifestyle. He tends to be insulting while at the same time going "But you're the exception!" it doesn't really make a person feel good to be told that (speaking from personal experience).

 

I love Solas, he's intelligent and thoughtful, but I feel like he either forces himself or genuinely has these racial biases (prejudices?) and that, I think, is sort of his big flaw. And I say that in the sense that he possibly does this because he has a strong need to reject 'this age' as it stands. Everything that has evolved, everything that is now is twisted and wrong and he cannot accept it. Anything that contradicts this opinion is an exception, because to believe otherwise would mean that the world isn't as bad as he's judged it to be.

 

It's not the same sort of internalized prejudice that Sera has, it's like he just...refuses to believe there's anything solidly good about this age. He can't, and that's why he says a lot of the insensitive things he does. I find that aspect of him fascinating, and it makes me wonder if, given enough time, would Lavellan (or any other friendly inquisitor) have been able to change his worldviews just enough.

 

On a side note, he does question whether or not he was wrong about the Dalish as a whole during the romance so...*shrug*

 

/rambling

On that note, you made me wonder something. Solas is definitely prejudiced, and I agree with you that it's possible he does this because of a will to reject this new age. If he were to accept that people (and not just a few exceptionnal individuals) aren't as bad as he imagined, he would then have to forgive himself his own mistakes. That he didn't screw as badly as he think he has. But... he can't forgive himself so he clings to his préjudices in a bid to justify his self-loathing. Just a thought...

[CapricornSun]

I have no idea what is going on so, here. Have a Solas

 

Spoiler

http://ir-tel-him.tu...85318/im-in-the

 

Aww! This is so sweet! 

 

(Did I mention how much I hate it when I'm out of likes?) 

[Rabbitonfire]

Who doesn't like cat kisses???

This person. You can deter a cat from kissing you by shaking tinfoil sheets violently. Cats do not like the sound or feel of crumpled tinfoil. You can't do it often  or the sheet will tear and then they'll feel safe. There should be no safety in tinfoil theories.

[Colonelkillabee]

There's a number of party members that can barely justify their place there.

 

Sera in my opinion really has no place at your side. You can choose to of course, but she doesn't serve any point besides... moral compass? Don't know if I can say that when she murders a noble when he was unarmed. A douche, but still.

 

 

Then there's Varric who we all love, but really he's just there to pick on Cassandra, lol.

 

Vivienne pretty much does nothing useful besides entertain.

 

Cole realistically, if done from the mage side anyway, likely should have been killed immediately... but he's very useful to you as a walking talking codex. Some of these characters' only purpose is to feed the narrative of the story to the player in another way besides reading boring walls of text. Which is fine.

[Addai]

But no circle mages. Personally, I found it fascinating to hear the perspective on the mage rebellion from a mage who did not support it. That's a perspective that you wouldn't have gotten anywhere else. Even Wynne had her grievances with the circle. And the banter concerning circle teaching methods and the limitations thereof with Solas were definitely worth her being a party member. Magical theory is one of the most interesting parts of the lore.

You do get that if you talk to the mages in Redcliffe, and from Minaeve, for example. I really don't see anything unique that Vivienne brings.
 

Well I did mention Solas. But my point stands. Most of the party members don't undergo any huge epiphanies during their time with the Inquisition. If you're talking character arcs, then Viv does soften somewhat towards an Inquisitor who gets her to high enough approval. And for Vivienne, who has worked very hard to excise even the suggestion of weakness, this is rather heartwarming. But my favourite his her banter with Cole where he reveals that she does care about him after all, but that she was afraid to commit herself to caring about him because she didn't wish to be hurt. There's also the suggestion that she's a tad jealous of the Inquisitor and their love interest. The Inquisitor has the luxury of choosing their partner for love rather than political advancement, something that Vivienne has never had. However, she also evidently cares very deeply for Duke Bastien, and his death is the only time you see behind the mask. Other than Solas, Vivienne is the most guarded character in the Inquisition.

I'll have to listen to her banter with Cole again, because I didn't get that. But really, there was little chance I was going to get anywhere with Vivienne, because I'll never have her approval anywhere close to where the relationship is even cordial. She can redecorate my furniture whenever she likes, though, if it helps ease her aggressions. lol

[Ajna]

*late to the party but barging in to make some sweeping statements about respect*

Nobody has got the right to claim that sex devalues a relationship - pixels or real. Nobody has the right to claim that lack of sex devalues a relationship - pixels or real. You may state your preferences on a personal level but don't you dare judge other peoples preferences as long as we are talking two consenting adults. Talking about sex as dirty/base is just as bad as calling people who prefer non-sexual relationships sick or immature.

To me a relationship between two adults without sex is absurd, so my HC is Solas and Lavellan had sex in every room in Skyhold, several places at the ball, each and every branch sturdy enough to hold them and every tent in every camp. If your HC is chaste - good for you (in a totally non-sarcastic tone), neither preference has any kind of value above the other.

Boo! I can't like this but I wanna!

[BoscoBread]

But... what does she do other than snipe at you if you side with the mages? Maybe I'm missing something, in which case I'd reconsider my stance, but what war table missions does she give you that advance your cause? What noble comes to you and says "I'll help you because Madame Vivienne said so"? Does she get you into the ball? No, it's all Josephine's connections which actually accomplish something. Her personal missions are related to rebuilding the Circle which I could care less about, and her lover which... okay, I really don't care about that either and she gives me no reason to care.

As for being Divine, she's never even put forward as a candidate so that seems a bit out of the blue IMO.

The Divine Thing: Out of the blue I mentioned it?  It's in the game if you get high enough approval.  Or do you mean 'out of the blue' like her being made divine at all doesn't really have context.  I'm not trying to be purposefully stupid, let me know which one and I'll be happy to clarify.

 

She geniunely seems to care for the Inquisitor - if you get high enough approval and wants to ensure that you make shrewd and sound decisions as Inqusitor and once the game ends she indicates to your Inquisitor that she will be going to Orlais but she will still very much be available for counsel and that she expects frequent visits. She is very well connected.  Duke Bastien was on the council of heralds and it is implied that they geniunely cared for eachother and his family seems to understand that as well.  The Duke's sister is a powerful Grand Cleric. So she has strong ties to both the chantry and the highest court. 

 

EDIT: You've seem to responded above which now I understand why you don't see a lot of this- all of this is only clear with like a BFF Vivienne.  I amazingly got her to love me.  She has war table missions that give you a lot of approval which I recommend you do with Josephine.  She doesn't bring a lot to the table gameplay wise - other than the presence of another mage and funny comments(which frankly could be said about any companion), but I see the value in her role in the Inquisition from a story perspective.

[LliiraAnna]

Re: Vivienne.

 

I have somewhat mixed feelings towards her. My main problem with her is not that she's pro-Circle - any perspective is welcome and can be justified - but the fact that I don't really see her as a pro-Circle *Circle mage*. She's more of a noble, if anything. She has much more freedom and influence than any other mage. Yes, she has worked hard to get it, but what about all the restrictions she insists are necessary? Should they be applied to every mage, but not to Viv herself? So everyone should be locked up, while she plays the Game? By her own logic, she also counts as "dangerous" and should be isolated, but nope. 

 

At least she has some wonderfully snarky banters 

[Ajna]

Are we in the cat pictures part? I've got one.

Regarding: Jumping/sliding off mountains and cliffs and ruins and landing on sleeping dragons that was discussed earlier. I usually opt to just slide off mountains and stuff whenever I can because it's fun. I would love a cave or dungeon that was just one big water slide with that mechanic. It'd be fantastic with crazy party banter while avoiding debris and whatnot.

But I digress. This is about a cat picture. And Solas. And how my Lavellan's embarrassing jumps in front of him aren't usually so epic as to land in a dragon's lair a hundred feet below. Nope. Tiger Festival's are more like this:



Where I try to make her jump a fence that is just barely too high. And then I'll try it again. Probably a third time too, because I'm sure I'll clear it that time, even though I could have just walked around the thing by then. Those damn Redcliffe farms fences. UGH.

Meh, would like to like this too!

[Little Mama]

Sigh. Love this picture. At first, I was thrown and really didn't like how Solas looked in that clothing and the goofy hat. Now I love the entire outfit. He looks younger, boyish and dashing. The way he looks really fits with how he acts at the ball. He seems so at ease and just so dang cute. I just want to squish him.

 

Still hate the ugly hat though and its bad animation 

 

Now everyone, why don't we all leave the sex discussion and move on...  Anyone have a good topic to discuss? _{one that doesn't involve sex plz}