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[Pinax]

Hi all, I have a question to all theory lovers. At the endgame, when Solas

Spoiler

despairs on the destroyed Orb

he says to Inquisitor: "it was not supposed to end this way". During the 2nd-3rd playthrough, I started to wonder:

 

1) How do you think the fight with Cory was supposed to end from Solas' perspective (besides getting the Orb back, ofc)?

 

2) Why does he break up with Lavellan straight after the

Spoiler

Temple of Mythal

mission and not just before the final confrontation with Cory?

 

3) What could he be expecting to happen after the final battle with Corypheus, that it was so important for him to leave Lavellan before?

 

Any thoughts, ideas...?

 

Sorry if this was discussed already, though I didn't saw posts on this before.

[Colonelkillabee]

Yesterday or so some people were discussing how the symbol under the divine during her sacrifice is identical to the one on the floor during Solas' first quest. I thought it was an interesting coincidence so I went back to check it out and take some screenshots of both the symbol and the statues around the room since I'm bored. Maybe they'll be useful to you theorycrafters in this thread. http://imgur.com/a/0KcS9#0

Seems rather ominous with this being the first artifact of his that we activate. I was against the idea that he wants to tear down the veil, but maybe...

 

That's what her sacrifice with Cornflakes was for, right? Like the last time the magisters tried opening the veil, but without the orb.

[Little Mama]

Awww yesss.

 

 

http://thepunchlinei...ut-then-i-didnt

 

Hilarious! 

[CapricornSun]

Well this is cute. 

 

http://alatuspictoma...school-today-xd

-----

And this is a bit sad...

 

http://otherwolves.t...reaction-to-the

[Mims]

My theories;

 

1. I believe Solas always optimistically hoped that he could recover the orb, and that it would finally be useable by him. Having the orb activated and using his own power is probably much, much, safer than the alternative. [Using Mythal's power.] Its possible that he knows that using Mythal's power will make him subject to a geas. Or it could simply be that any alternative beyond his power directly will still be weakened. 

 

2. He breaks up with Lavellan by accident, essentially. This part is a bit better understood if you listen to Weekes's interview where he discusses his characters. Essentially, Solas picked that part to reveal to Lavellan everything about him. Who he was, what his plans were...and he realizes once they get there that he can't. So rather than continue to lie to her, he breaks up.

 

3. He likely knew he needed to meet up with Mythal. There was nothing left for him at the Inquisition- his plans are going to take him far beyond their interests. Or even put him in direct conflict with them. Putting ground between him and them is smart. 

[madrar]

Can someone link me again to the wiki? I'm at work today so have a little time later for organization.

 

http://virdirthan.wikispaces.com/, though it seems to be offline for maintenance at the moment.  

 

*shakes fist at sky*

[Mims]

Well this is cute. 

 

http://alatuspictoma...school-today-xd

-----

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is all I want in a DLC. I don't care if we ride off and immediately fall into a volcano. Do not tease me with the possibility of riding into battle on a giant wolf of the apocalypse, Bioware. I grew up with Princess Mononoke. 

[Pinax]

Seems rather ominous with this being the first artifact of his that we activate. I was against the idea that he wants to tear down the veil, but maybe...

 

That's what her sacrifice with Cornflakes was for, right? Like the last time the magisters tried opening the veil, but without the orb.

 

I'm pretty sure he actually wants to remove the Veil after I saw this dialogue:

 

Plus there is this conversation with Inquisitor: "imagine how a world without Veil would be" etc. For those who didn't have it yet: You can have it at the beginning of the game in Haven, by selecting additional options.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I love Vivienne but I think her character is wasted in this game, at no point do we see her political savyness come to play aside from a few war table missions with her political connections. We never get to see her being proactive in trying to reach some goal despite apparently being quite ambitious, the inquisitor is the one that has to put the idea of her becoming Divine into her head, otherwise it just falls into her lap if she gets chosen. It would have been interesting if she was present at the "wicked hearts" mission regardless of party combosition and we saw her playing her own game on the sideline of the Gaspard/Briala/Celene power struggle.

 

I almost wonder at times if she should have been a fourth advisor, counciling us on the arcane, or perhaps even replace Josephine as our chief diplomat. 

 

Hopefully if Fiona is dead and disgraced at Haven and Cassandra becomes divine, Vivenne can become grand enchanter of the circles. Thereby setting a possible cameo-by-letter from her in the next game if the protagonist needs to contact the southern circles. It would also be fitting of her managing to climb to the very top of the circle system. 

 

 

You do get that if you talk to the mages in Redcliffe, and from Minaeve, for example. I really don't see anything unique that Vivienne brings.

 

The difference between Minaeve and Vivienne is that Minaeve brings the perspective of an average circle mage,  while Vivienne is at the near top of the system. So there is difference enough between them to warrant being able to hear both.

[Siha]

2) Why does he break up with Lavellan straight after the

Spoiler

Temple of Mythal

mission and not just before the final confrontation with Cory?

Wild guess: from a developer's perspective it's because there is no precise "before event" here. "Before" is only the time span between a pecise "after" and the next start of a (main) mission. You never know when the player will start the end battle until he does. So you cannot define any other trigger than "after the next-to-last mission". You could tie the last conversation right before that mission, triggering it by triggering the mission. But that feels crappy somehow (though I cannot explain well). But you can easily determine the "after event" once the player has played the last story-related mission before the endgame.

 

But this question did make me think of something I find interesting. So imagine you do not speak to Solas after the Temple. He will not break up, he will just tell you "I just wanted you to know it was real" (or whatever his words) and be gone. And Lavellan will just look at him while he says it, not respond to it (no questions, no surprise, no confusion), turn around and go.

[jellobell]

Ah, ok. Like I said, I'll never see this so to me there's really no use for her in my characters' sphere of influence. That sounds a bit condescending, too, and it seems to me like she's hitching her train without giving a lot back. But I accept that she's just not a character that has any appeal to me. Even Sera, who I end up in severe disapproval with whether I want to or not, at least offers something entertaining and novel, but Vivienne is just Wynne in funny hats- and an Orlesian and politician to boot. *shudder*

Heh, I see where you're coming from. My Lavellan was rather bemused by the whole thing, because she wasn't the type who was incredibly invested in holding onto her power. And I think that's exactly why Vivienne was so concerned.  Which I thought was rather sweet of her, even though her advice sounded rather, erm, evil dictator-ish. But hey, Orlesians. What're you gonna do?

 

I guess I'm the type who ends up getting attached to all of the characters more or less. I was very meh on Sera until I made a concerted effort to take her around more. And I loved Wynne in Origins, for all her flaws. I will never forget that Griffon conversation.

 

Anyways, lest we get too off-topic, here's some amazing Solas art from tumblr.

 

 

http://smailika.tumb...ngst-here-we-go

[Little Mama]

Hi all, I have a question to all theory lovers. At the endgame, when Solas

Spoiler

despairs on the destroyed Orb

he says to Inquisitor: "it was not supposed to end this way". During the 2nd-3rd playthrough, I started to wonder:

 

1) How do you think the fight with Cory was supposed to end from Solas' perspective (besides getting the Orb back, ofc)?

 

2) Why does he break up with Lavellan straight after the

Spoiler

Temple of Mythal

mission and not just before the final confrontation with Cory?

 

3) What could he be expecting to happen after the final battle with Corypheus, that it was so important for him to leave Lavellan before?

 

Any thoughts, ideas...?

 

Sorry if this was discussed already, though I didn't saw posts on this before.

 

I've wondered about this things myself. Here's a quick summon of my thoughts...

 

1. all I've gotten to is that he gets the orb back and is able to carry out whatever he's mission is... Maybe it would be reavealed to the world how he really is. 

 

2. because the realionship his getting to strong for him. He's starting to give up on his mission and just wants to be with Lav. I don't think the break up is planned, its just that right then he realizes that it's a necessity. That he shouldn't have involved himself in the first place. 

 

3. A combination of the above. But for his disseperence, that's probably beacuse he knowns he needs to go find Flemath/Mythal to get another powersource.    

[Colonelkillabee]

I'm pretty sure he actually wants to remove the Veil after I saw this dialogue:

 

Plus there is this conversation with Inquisitor: "imagine how a world without Veil would be" etc. For those who didn't have it yet: You can have it at the beginning of the game in Haven, by selecting additional options.

Doesn't this kinda go against that idea? Unless the guy loves irony that much, lol.

 

I think that he wants the world to return to the way it was, but knows that they aren't ready for it yet. I base that one on his dialogue saying he never expected to physically be in the fade, and two on the elven texts suggesting the old gods/forgotten ones are anchors of the world, and he responded very negatively to the warden's plan to kill them. I think he knows something bad would happen if they succeed.

 

Which going from that text:

 

http://dragonage.wik...d_Elven_Writing

 

Suggests the convergence of the fade and the mortal world.

[MiyuEmi]

@Pinex and @Little Mama:

 

My thoughts...

 

1. The orb wasn't supposed to be broken.  He thought that Corypheus would charge it, which he did, but he didn't expect it to be destroyed by falling rubble.  He needs a charged orb.

 

2.  I think he ends the relationship then because it would make it easier for both of them.  He had always maintained that their relationship was selfish and foolish and once they reach the Temple of Mythal, it's likely the gravity of what he needs to accomplish hits him.

 

3.  I don't think he's expecting anything, but he knows that it doesn't matter who gets in his way, he could and will end anyone who does get in his way.  He doesn't want Lavellen to be that thing that gets in the way.  Although he ended the relationship, I feel he had valid reasons for doing so, he simply didn't enlighten Lavellen on what those reasons were.  I believe he cared for her and so believed it was best to move her out of the path of the speeding train.

 

Just my opinion!  Love a bit of theory!

[Pinax]

Mims, many thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

Re.

2. He breaks up with Lavellan by accident, essentially. This part is a bit better understood if you listen to Weekes's interview where he discusses his characters. Essentially, Solas picked that part to reveal to Lavellan everything about him. Who he was, what his plans were...and he realizes once they get there that he can't. So rather than continue to lie to her, he breaks up.

 

 

I listened to the interview and I'm aware Solas is just one step close to taking The Truth and not about the valasslin, but about who he really is I know he's also at the poing of giving everything up and staying with Lavellan, but decides not to continue the lie.

 

I appreciate though I'm on the optimist party here, still hoping for the happy reunion some day in next games or DLC. The thing is I cannot fully convince myself to see this breakout as definitive: He says to Lavellan "maybe in another world", she asks "why not this etc."? At first playthrough I understood it as final forever, after 2nd playthrough when I began to convince myself more and more Solas actually wants to litterally change the world by removing the Veil, imo, I wondered if this is not another tiny truth which escaped him.

 

I actually keep hoping for the best for my 2 sad, heartbroken Lavellans!

[Sah291]

Hi all, I have a question to all theory lovers. At the endgame, when Solas

Spoiler

despairs on the destroyed Orb

he says to Inquisitor: "it was not supposed to end this way". During the 2nd-3rd playthrough, I started to wonder:
 
1) How do you think the fight with Cory was supposed to end from Solas' perspective (besides getting the Orb back, ofc)?
 
2) Why does he break up with Lavellan straight after the

Spoiler

Temple of Mythal

mission and not just before the final confrontation with Cory?
 
3) What could he be expecting to happen after the final battle with Corypheus, that it was so important for him to leave Lavellan before?
 
Any thoughts, ideas...?
 
Sorry if this was discussed already, though I didn't saw posts on this before.

I have a few theories. I think it is likely he expected he might die. How or why I'm not sure, but I get this impression from the dialogue. Maybe he expected to finally pay a price with Mythal.

But I also wonder if he expected there might be a power struggle for the orb afterwards, resulting in the Quizzy killing him (or the other way around if he/she wanted to use it). It is hinted that Cory sees the Quizzy as a rival for the throne in the black city (Morrigan mentions it as well). If you do drink from the well, you could use it to try and do that. Or Morrigan might have tried.

When he says "it wasn't supposed to be this way" I don't think he really means just the final fight but the whole situation. The whole plan went down wrong, as a result of a mistake he made in the past.

[Meer]

As I catch up on the thread, I thought I'd mention that the Solas shirts are once again available in the BioWare store, for those who didn't get one when they were last released.

[Pinax]

(...)

 

Suggests the convergence of the fade and the mortal world.

 

That's actually how I understand Solas' long term goal, sorry if this was not clear. I think his default goal is to reshape the world into one where Fade is one of it's states (like rainy weather!) and not a separate entity.

 

How exactly though this would help the elves, how this could differ from what he could have potentially done with the elven pantheon and the Forgotten ones and if the effects won't be as disapointing for him as the current results of his past actions are... - no idea! Happy to have a bit of brainstorming on this here.

[chibielf]

I've discovered a new fiction. This one is Solas releasing the elven gods.
http://dragonage-kin...41720#t46341720

Oh I love this story! Hasn't been updated in awhile. It's just starting to get really good too.

[Ajna]

Mims, many thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Re.



I listened to the interview and I'm aware Solas is just one step close to taking The Truth and not about the valasslin, but about who he really is I know he's also at the poing of giving everything up and staying with Lavellan, but decides not to continue the lie.

I appreciate though I'm on the optimist party here, still hoping for the happy reunion some day in next games or DLC. The thing is I cannot fully convince myself to see this breakout as definitive: He says to Lavellan "maybe in another world", she asks "why not this etc."? At first playthrough I understood it as final forever, after 2nd playthrough when I began to convince myself more and more Solas actually wants to litterally change the world by removing the Veil, imo, I wondered if this is not another tiny truth which escaped him.

I actually keep hoping for the best for my 2 sad, heartbroken Lavellans!

I've had this thought myself, that what if what he does essentially makes another world. As in, it's changed so much that it may as well be another one *shrugs*. Yup that's me and wishful thinking.

I also have a tendency to cling very tightly to the words "for now"...

[Renmiri1]

We're back baby!

 

[HatUmbra]

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever worried about, but could you kindly look at my rogue Lavellan and tell me how awful you think she will look if I let her tattoo be removed?

 

http://imgur.com/mAPDBQD

 

I didn't notice her lack of eyebrows when I made her.

 

I haven't even done the ball yet so I have plenty of time to agonize over the choice, heehee.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[madrar]

Well, Zathrian obtained immortality in return for an immortal curse, did he not?

So while I'm not onboard for everyone needing to be bound in immortal service, I think there might be something to be said for the maintenance of long standing spells or enchantments or magic threaded and interwoven through the ages prolonging the lives of those who contributed their mana to it. 

 

This is elegant- unfortunately Solas throws a wrench it it with his whole "magic was the effect, not the cause" of immortality speech back in Haven.  Not to say that there wasn't a connection between the entities that eventually made up the Pantheon, Mythal, and the granting of inherent OGS abilities with a very specific related Duty or Purpose- I definitely think there was.  But generic immortality doesn't seem to have been a magical 'trade', just a core part of what it was to be Elvhen.  (Essential fade shadow conduit drawing sustenance naturally from fade, etc.) 

 

*edit: gah, what Caddius said.   >w<  I should keep quiet until I catch up with the blasted thread. 

[Mims]

Lack of eyebrows is going to be rough. I know I couldn't remove my vallaslin for long because I gave my girl heavy eyeshadow to match her tattoos. Without the markings she looked like she got punched in the eyes.