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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#60126
phyreblade74

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I just wanted to mention this itty bit of information.

 

SPOILER 

 

 

 

 

 

People have been discussing who Solas's "people" are.  

 

After the Orlesian Ball if you have made curtain decisions regarding Briala, you can have a possible conversation with Solas, where Levellan apoligizes for Briala's fate, the conversation then goes on to Solas explaining how he doesn't feel he has anything in common with the elves, and that they aren't "his people"

 

if you ask him who his people are, he sways the conversation and sais it isn't important.

 

therefore my theory is when he is refering to saving "his people" to simply put it I think he is refering to the elven "gods"

 

What he says, in fact, "I don't consider myself to have much in common with the elves."  The question then comes down to who it is he's really referring to in that instance.  Abelas makes specific differentiation between elves and the elvhan, for instance.  "Yes, like me," Solas assures him there are other elvhan in the world.

 

Honestly, city elves ARE very removed from what their ancestors were.  They barely recall their heritage, most of them adapting so much to human culture and customs they're only marked as elven by their physical differences from their human counterparts.  I wouldn't imagine Solas would feel any real affinity for them, no.  He probably only barely understands them. 

 

And he seems actually ANGRY at the Dalish.  I think it's because the Dalish keep "getting it wrong", that they're fumbling along trying to understand but not.  Which wouldn't be so bad a thing, more child-like misunderstanding than anything else.  But it doesn't seem to stop them from insisting they do know, that they're the only ones who know.  As if they're superior, somehow.  They come off as arrogant and egotistical, and I think it offends him, with his notions of respect for freedom and expression.

 

Lavellan catches him off-guard precisely because she is so much different than what he'd thought of the Dalish, far from superior-notioned, not so arrogant, and well ready to listen to something new, to incorporate new ideas and new concepts.  Even of her own heritage.  It's her curiosity that heightens his own, in fact.  As he says, "If the Dalish could make someone like you, maybe I've been wrong about them all this time."

 

But really.  There IS someone else who refers to "the people", remember.  Back in DA2, when Hawke returns the token to Mythal's altar on Sundermount and Flemeth appears ... she makes it a point to address Merrill.  In fact, she gives advice to two specific characters aside from Hawke, and both of them were elves.  Merrill and Fenris, that is.  But to Merrill, Flemeth says, "One of the people, I see.  So young and bright.  Do you know who I am, beyond that title?"

 

Merrill replies, "I know only a little."

 

Flemeth tells her, then, "Then stand.  The people bend their knee too quickly."

 

I find it telling that both Flemeth and Solas use the term "the people", both of them with far-reaching agendas, and all of it hidden out of sight.  They're working together, largely.  So whatever "the people" Flemeth refers to is most likely the same "the people" that Solas speaks of during that final dramatic scene.  And Flemeth directly said Merrill was "one of the people" ...

 

Okay, loads of deep thinking hurts my head after a while.  So here's my Lavellan, all fluffy-like:

 

vhenan.jpg


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#60127
NightSymphony

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No. I don't want to. I just would have done it for you.

 

;)

 

I'm at it. I unfortunately don't have a pre-dragon save, so I must run through the Western Approach first. So... might take a few minutes.

Blah..out of likes.  THANK YOU!!!



#60128
Siha

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If you want to. It would be nice to know. :)  I still have a long way to go before I get there.

No way around it. She just waits for you. Once baited there is no way back (unless you avoid the area).



#60129
Sah291

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Yeah, I got this recently, can't remember the area but he says something like "It never ceases to amaze me how people use the chaos of war to satisfy their own  greed [or was it ambition?]"


Yup that's the one.

However he does express some approval of Briala after the ball. So I don't know, it might be something more specific to do with using the eluvians.

#60130
BoscoBread

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Re: romance being locked after break up

 

I know there has been a discussion about it back in December I think but has it been confirmed that it was a bug or not? I know most of us would think that locking up the romance after the balcony scene would make more sense but I think there are still a bunch of people that thinks it was intended by BW. Didn't we have someone who asked PW on Twitter? I can't remember. 

 

Any thoughts? 

I don't think it is.  I think it's as intended because Solas' intent in bringing you out there is NOT to break up with you. He wanted to tell you everything and give you a choice  to proceed in the relationship.So after you say 'As you are to me' it locks in but then he freaks and doesn't tell you.  Then he says '**** it, I'm staying with this lady. Who cares about my past' but freaks out AGAIN and dumps you.  He's a very complex man to have so many breakdowns in the span of like 2 minutes.


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#60131
Sah291

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Besides the idea of all these elves supposedly being gods and popping up out of the woodworks being kind of lame, I really hope one of the gods aren't actually that...
 
Sera...
 
I really just want to tell her to stop talking half the time. I find her background in Denerim to be a bit too specific though, compared to Solas who is vague as all hell.


Well Solas did say he didn't believe they were gods. When he gets angry after you drink from the well, if you ask him why he cares...he's vague as usual....but says they could be powerful mages, spirits, dreamers, or something else we've never seen. The "something else we've never seen" part is what puzzles me. What could that mean? Like what, aliens? :P Perhaps he is just misdirecting us. But it's weird.

#60132
Guest_Faerunner_*

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What he says, in fact, "I don't consider myself to have much in common with the elves."  The question then comes down to who it is he's really referring to in that instance.  Abelas makes specific differentiation between elves and the elvhan, for instance.  "Yes, like me," Solas assures him there are other elvhan in the world.

 

Honestly, city elves ARE very removed from what their ancestors were.  They barely recall their heritage, most of them adapting so much to human culture and customs they're only marked as elven by their physical differences from their human counterparts.  I wouldn't imagine Solas would feel any real affinity for them, no.  He probably only barely understands them. 

 

And he seems actually ANGRY at the Dalish.  I think it's because the Dalish keep "getting it wrong", that they're fumbling along trying to understand but not.  Which wouldn't be so bad a thing, more child-like misunderstanding than anything else.  But it doesn't seem to stop them from insisting they do know, that they're the only ones who know.  As if they're superior, somehow.  They come off as arrogant and egotistical, and I think it offends him, with his notions of respect for freedom and expression.

 

Lavellan catches him off-guard precisely because she is so much different than what he'd thought of the Dalish, far from superior-notioned, not so arrogant, and well ready to listen to something new, to incorporate new ideas and new concepts.  Even of her own heritage.  It's her curiosity that heightens his own, in fact.  As he says, "If the Dalish could make someone like you, maybe I've been wrong about them all this time."

 

But really.  There IS someone else who refers to "the people", remember.  Back in DA2, when Hawke returns the token to Mythal's altar on Sundermount and Flemeth appears ... she makes it a point to address Merrill.  In fact, she gives advice to two specific characters aside from Hawke, and both of them were elves.  Merrill and Fenris, that is.  But to Merrill, Flemeth says, "One of the people, I see.  So young and bright.  Do you know who I am, beyond that title?"

 

Merrill replies, "I know only a little."

 

Flemeth tells her, then, "Then stand.  The people bend their knee too quickly."

 

I find it telling that both Flemeth and Solas use the term "the people", both of them with far-reaching agendas, and all of it hidden out of sight.  They're working together, largely.  So whatever "the people" Flemeth refers to is most likely the same "the people" that Solas speaks of during that final dramatic scene.  And Flemeth directly said Merrill was "one of the people" 

 

I think it helps that Solas is an ancient elven god who woke up in a post-Arlathan world where people like him only sleep in ruins hidden in the forests.

 

Interesting to note, he says that regardless of whether you helped Briala or not. In a save where I expressed interest in helping Briala but failed to get her and Celene to reconcile, I talked to Solas afterwards. When I expressed sorrow over not being able to help our people, he replied, "'Our people?' Who are our - Oh, you mean elves! I'm sorry, I don't consider myself to have much in common with the elves."

 

Likewise though, in a playthrough where I'd expressed an interest in helping Briala and succeeded in getting Gaspard to be her puppet ruler, my Lavellan expressed joy at being able to help our people. Same as before, Solas says, "'Our people?' Who are our - Oh, you mean elves! I'm sorry, I don't consider myself to have much in common with the elves."

 

EDIT: If you ask him who he considers his people, he says he is an individual that should be judged for his own merit.

 

HOWEVER, Solas kind of lets his guard drop after the Orlesian Ball. He lets slip that he forgot how much he missed court intrigue, which contradicts the persona he's projected so far: a humble hermit apostate that grew up in a small village and has wandered the wilderness ever since, avoiding society and seeking dreams. Question him on when he was at court and he has to backpedal, "Of course, an apostate like me would never be welcome in court..." Likewise, you mention the elves, he momentarily forgets he's pretending to be an average mortal elf born of this century. "Our people? Who are our - oh, you mean elves!" Yeah, forgot you're pretending to be one of us, didn't ya, Solas?


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#60133
Ajna

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Well Solas did say he didn't believe they were gods. When he gets angry after you drink from the well, if you ask him why he cares...he's vague as usual....but says they could be powerful mages, spirits, dreamers, or something else we've never seen. The "something else we've never seen" part is what puzzles me. What could that mean? Like what, aliens? :P Perhaps he is just misdirecting us. But it's weird.

 

36985861.jpg


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#60134
Colonelkillabee

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Well Solas did say he didn't believe they were gods. When he gets angry after you drink from the well, if you ask him why he cares...he's vague as usual....but says they could be powerful mages, spirits, dreamers, or something else we've never seen. The "something else we've never seen" part is what puzzles me. What could that mean? Like what, aliens? :P Perhaps he is just misdirecting us. But it's weird.

 

I wouldn't consider myself a god either if I could screw up so badly, lol. I'd be rather terrified if I was the world's gods. No wonder they don't dismiss the Maker.


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#60135
Colonelkillabee

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36985861.jpg

 

ROFL So much ROFL


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#60136
Moirin

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I don't think it is.  I think it's as intended because Solas' intent in bringing you out there is NOT to break up with you. He wanted to tell you everything and give you a choice  to proceed in the relationship.So after you say 'As you are to me' it locks in but then he freaks and doesn't tell you.  Then he says '**** it, I'm staying with this lady. Who cares about my past' but freaks out AGAIN and dumps you.  He's a very complex man to have so many breakdowns in the span of like 2 minutes.

 

Agreed. I'd also like to add that I think he only calls it off with you because he feels he won't be able to bring himself to complete his "mission" if he is still in a relationship with you.



#60137
NightSymphony

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No way around it. She just waits for you. Once baited there is no way back (unless you avoid the area).

Awww...what a shame. Oh well...I might just skip that part.



#60138
Little Mama

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If we were not already leaning towards Sera being Andruil incarnate, my first guess would be that Mythal has maneuvered Hawke into the Abyss in order to "pick up" OGS Andruil. 

 

Which would be double as awesome when Hawke/Andruil kicks down the veil-wall, souvenir in hand, and yells "guess who's back?!" 

 

That I'd liked to see. 

So far I've sacrificed my Hawke every time. First time, I simly didn't know better and then, well beween Hawke and Al the choice is simple - Al. 

 

 

I don't think it is.  I think it's as intended because Solas' intent in bringing you out there is NOT to break up with you. He wanted to tell you everything and give you a choice  to proceed in the relationship.So after you say 'As you are to me' it locks in but then he freaks and doesn't tell you.  Then he says '**** it, I'm staying with this lady. Who cares about my past' but freaks out AGAIN and dumps you.  He's a very complex man to have so many breakdowns in the span of like 2 minutes.

 
 

Agreed. I'd also like to add that I think he only calls it off with you because he feels he won't be able to bring himself to complete his "mission" if he is still in a relationship with you.

 

I also add that I think he back out partly beacause of fear of her reaction. I mean, her people practically paints him as a villain that was the reason that the elven empire fell... Outch! That got to sting...

 

And all romances practically locks after the ending...  don't they...



#60139
LliiraAnna

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Re: Solas and "the people".

 

I don't think that Solas disapproving of Dalish and City elves = Solas doesn't want to help them. From his point of view, modern elves have fallen far from what they were supposed to be, to the point where he really cannot be considered "one of them". However, he apparently wishes to return things back to the way they were before (in his days), which likely includes restoring elves to their proper state. Note that he tried to approach the Dalish before, but it didn't go well. So, as it is, they are not his people; they are not what they are supposed to be, and they themselves reject him. But they'll be his people once he "restores" them.
 
TL;dr: his feelings towards modern elves can be summed up as "anger born of worry".
 
The biggest problem I see there is that Solas is so sure that he needs to "set things right" that he doesn't even think whether this'll really make things better. 
 
As always, imo only  :)

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#60140
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I imagine even if he had told her the truth, it'd be hard to sell it. He doesn't seem to have any additional powers other than what any normal mage would have pre-Mythal superbuff. So it'd basically just be your crazy boyfriend telling you he's Fen'Harel. 


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#60141
Sable Rhapsody

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I imagine even if he had told her the truth, it'd be hard to sell it. He doesn't seem to have any additional powers other than what any normal mage would have pre-Mythal superbuff. So it'd basically just be your crazy boyfriend telling you he's Fen'Harel. 

 

Powers, no.  But like Vivienne points out, he does have a suspicious depth of knowledge that can't just be explained away by "Oh, the Fade!"  I think if he helped Lavellan put together the pieces a little, mine at least would have believed him.  Hell, at that point so much weird s*** has happened to quizzy that her boyfriend being Fen'Harel is just icing on the cake  :lol:


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#60142
Ajna

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I imagine even if he had told her the truth, it'd be hard to sell it. He doesn't seem to have any additional powers other than what any normal mage would have pre-Mythal superbuff. So it'd basically just be your crazy boyfriend telling you he's Fen'Harel. 

 

Hahaha, I love that image, Teatime, I think this requires a fake screenshot!



#60143
Ajna

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Powers, no.  But like Vivienne points out, he does have a suspicious depth of knowledge that can't just be explained away by "Oh, the Fade!"  I think if he helped Lavellan put together the pieces a little, mine at least would have believed him.  Hell, at that point so much weird s*** has happened to quizzy that her boyfriend being Fen'Harel is just icing on the cake  :lol:

 

Yeah, finding out better have the option to just laugh maniacally...


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#60144
Little Mama

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I imagine even if he had told her the truth, it'd be hard to sell it. He doesn't seem to have any additional powers other than what any normal mage would have pre-Mythal superbuff. So it'd basically just be your crazy boyfriend telling you he's Fen'Harel. 

 

What woman wouldn't want to have a God as boyfriend..?  :kissing:

 

And with her backgroundstory my IQ would be all over him in a heartbeat. *woof* 



#60145
Siha

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Re: Solas and "the people".

 

I don't think that Solas disapproving of Dalish and City elves = Solas doesn't want to help them. From his point of view, modern elves have fallen far from what they were supposed to be, to the point where he really cannot be considered "one of them". However, he apparently wishes to return things back to the way they were before (in his days), which likely also includes restoring elves to their proper state. Note that he tried to approach the Dalish before, but it didn't go well. So, as it is, they are not his people; they are not what they are supposed to be, and they themselves reject him. But if he "restores" them, then they'll be his people again.
 
The biggest problem I see there is that Solas is so sure that he needs to "set things right" that he doesn't even think whether this'll really make things better. 
 
As always, imo only  :)

 

I think you're right. Especially as he says things along those lines. That he wants to help them, in fact does (I have not had an anti-Solas run yet, but according to videos it gets especially obvious there), and that he is just very disappointed.



#60146
Sah291

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I also add that I think he back out partly beacause of fear of her reaction. I mean, her people practically paints him as a villain that was the reason that the elven empire fell... Outch! That got to sting...

Yup my first play through it puzzled me why he would give disapproval when you say you aren't Mythal's slave yet. Like, wait, weren't you just angry I was going to become her "creature" like 2 seconds ago? Lol. But to him it must have come like "Yeah I'm not Mythal's slave...(and not yours either...so back off") :P

#60147
Little Mama

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Yup my first play through it puzzled me why he would give disapproval when you say you aren't Mythal's slave yet. Like, wait, weren't you just angry I was going to become her "creature" like 2 seconds ago? Lol. But to him it must have come like "Yeah I'm not Mythal's slave...(and not yours either...so back off") :P

 

Yeah! I bet that's why he got pissed  :P

He said the Gods were arrogant and fickle, but isn't that what the Dalish call him...?

And himself for that matter  :o  Doesn't he say something like that when you flirt with him? 



#60148
drake2511

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Oh my. I think that's the first "pajama" mod I've really loved. Is there a link for it somewhere?

http://www.nexusmods...tion/mods/242/?HERE it is!! :D

EDIT: http://firemadeflesh...t-female-only-athis is pretty good too!


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#60149
Illyria

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It is an interesting line! I would say that, much like everything else with Solas/Felassan, it could be read to support both theories.

 

On the 'Solas killed Felassan side': the line gives a direct link to Fen'Harel of the present. It shows that Felassan is aware that Fen'Harel is different in some capacity to the ways the stories depict him. If he were working directly for Fen'Harel, he would be in the position to know how Fen'Harel would react. Much more clear cut than the alternative, which is that Felassan is working for an unknown master but somehow also has intimate knowledge of how Fen'Harel would react. 

 

There is a counter, however. Let us say we're rolling with the assumption that Felassan does have direct knowledge of how Fen'Harel would react in a given situation. Felassan suggests that he would not do as Briala did. That has a bit more of an ominous connotation taken just as it is. But at the end of the book, he still draws a comparison between Fen'Harel and Briala. Which turns the line a bit more of a positive. I doubt he would make the comparison if he thought that Fen'Harel's reaction would have been monstrous. 

 

That doesn't mean he didn't kill him, but it does mean that Felassan continues to have a favorable read of Fen'Harel, which seems an odd thing to have if you are seconds from getting killed by him. 

 

For me, the main thing that still keeps me from siding with the 'Solas killed Felassan' theory is the fact that there's no establishment of Solas requiring a passcode, or that his movements were restricted in any capacity. As far as we know, he just woke up.

 

But we do know the elven gods are likely trapped behind a mirror, and thus, would have ample need for eluvian passcodes. And it also explains why the elven god would be completely reliant on mortal servants. They can't physically go out and walk the world. 

 

This is why I think the person who killed him is one of the trapped gods (probably Falon'Din.  Or June.)  Weekes avoids saying what Felassan's vallislin looks like (and it's always seen from the POV of a non-Dalish character) and from DAI we know that elves with vallislin were bound to the service of a god.  So, I think Felassan was bound to Falon'Possibly but supported Fen'Harel.  He doesn't let Bria tell him the passcode because he could be compelled to give it to his unseen boss.



#60150
DrTeatime

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Hahaha, I love that image, Teatime, I think this requires a fake screenshot!

As you say.

Spoiler


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