153434 réponses à ce sujet

[madrar]

I like all of this.

One factoid that may be useful: Beneath the Deep Roads proper, there's older, more primitive Deep Roads. The group in The Calling stumbles across them. Which points toward the dwarves having come from...where? Caves, I guess?

Another is that golems are present in the Primeval Thaig, while 'invented' by Caridin in the middle of the First Blight. He says the ancestors spoke to him in his journal. Perhaps the Forgotten Ones whispered to him of old technology and wonders? 

 

Wait... I think I might be misunderstanding here.   Ignoring the "Forgotten Ones = fallen Pantheon" counter-theory for the sake of argument, the concept of the group is originally introduced by the Dalish, not the Dwarves... isn't it?  In that context, suggesting they're completely distinct Dwarven entities seems strongly counter-indicated, no?  That would beg the question of why they figure in Dalish myth at all, never mind why they're portrayed as a distinctly antagonistic force to the elven Pantheon, given the apparent absence of historical conflict between the two races.

 

Or am I totally misunderstanding what you're getting at?  If what you're actually saying is that the elvish Pantheon and the dwarves' original pre-Stone worship Pantheon was one and the same, then I think I'm back on board.  The membership of the ancient Pantheon hasn't been entirely static, but evidence does seem to point to the same entities being the "gods" of all races' mythologies- whether Dwarves, Humans, Elves, etc.  From that perspective, it's entirely possible the dwarves' original Pantheon includes some members of what the Dalish refer to as the Forgotten Ones.  

 

Is that what you mean?

[Dr. Doctor]

Everyone in DA:I has a dark secret...except the Inquisitor.
 
That they know.

I'm reminded of this:

[HatUmbra]

As for drink versus don't...

 

I am chagrined to admit that I haven't on any of my Lavellans because...I can't kill/tame the dragon.

 

I tried 5 times on my KE, but I obviously am a terribad player because Cole died, Solas (!) died, my KE died, and Cass just stood there all disgusted.

 

Maybe someday.

[Caddius]

Wait... I think I might be misunderstanding here.   Ignoring out of favor Pantheon counter-theory for the sake of argument, the concept of the "Forgotten Ones" is originally introduced by the Dalish, not the Dwarves... no?  In that context, suggesting they're completely distinct Dwarven entities seems strongly counter-indicated, doesn't it?  That would beg the question of why the group figures in Dalish myth at all, never mind why they're portrayed as a distinctly antagonistic force to the elven Pantheon, given the apparent absence of historical conflict between the two races.

 

Or am I totally misunderstanding what you're getting at?  If what you're actually saying is that the elvish Pantheon and the dwarves' original pre-Stone worship Pantheon was one and the same, then I think I'm back on board.  The membership of the ancient Pantheon hasn't been entirely static, but evidence does seem to point to the same entities being the "gods" of all races' mythologies- whether Dwarves, Humans, Elves, etc.  From that perspective, it's entirely possible the dwarves' original Pantheon includes some members of what the Dalish refer to as the Forgotten Ones.  

 

Is that what you mean?

I wasn't really suggesting anything. I was offering up things to let others see how they fit into the offered theory.

That being said, I think it's likely that the dwarves' original deities were either the Titans, who are also the Forgotten Ones, or the Titans and some of the Creators, like June. I don't know. As of yet, my ancient dwarf history tin foil hat headcanon is rather muddled. Kieran's comment about the Titans is what throws me off of the 'dwarves worshipping the Creators under different names' train, as much as I like that theory. That and the connection to lyrium mentioned by Cole.

[madrar]

5900: The Neromenian tribes split and form four ancient kingdoms: Tevinter, Neromenian, Barindur, and Qarinus.

5990: The entire kingdom of Barindur vanishes. The humans of the day claim the city lost the favor of Dumat. Solas claims it was preserved underneath the volcanic ash.

My bad if this has been answered.

 

*slaps a hand to her forehead*

 

You're right, that was the Barindur... "Dumat's" people.  The two stories aren't necessarily part of the same overall event, but it paints a pretty harsh picture either way.  I'd been working under the assumption a fallen "God"'s followers would be absorbed by other members of the Pantheon, not wiped from the face of the earth.  Jesus, Elgar'nan.

[Colonelkillabee]

I'm reminded of this:

LOL I never saw this one. The blueberry pie ending before he got shot made me lose it, ROFL.

[Sashimi_taco]

Look what I just realized when trying to translate stuff:

 

-Hellathen: Solas [god]

 

-Herellan: Solas [god]

 

-Bellanaris: Mythal [god]

 

Lavellan is the only other elvish word known with that sound in it. All other words with that root word in it is related to a god. 

[madrar]

This astrarium about Silentir links Mythal, Dumat and a man carrying a horn and wand. Hmmm. Couldn't help but think of Solas' drinking horn and staff. I'd be more convinced if the horn showed up in his tarot.


 

 

I'm fairly certain the Mythal reference is a red herring.  Consider that the scales imagery could easily represent Balance instead of judgement.  Seems to me to be more evidence in support of the (Solas)Dirthamen -> Thing in the Dark -> Dumat connection.

[madrar]

I wasn't really suggesting anything. I was offering up things to let others see how they fit into the offered theory.

That being said, I think it's likely that the dwarves' original deities were either the Titans, who are also the Forgotten Ones, or the Titans and some of the Creators, like June. I don't know. As of yet, my ancient dwarf history tin foil hat headcanon is rather muddled. Kieran's comment about the Titans is what throws me off of the 'dwarves worshipping the Creators under different names' train, as much as I like that theory. That and the connection to lyrium mentioned by Cole.

 

Hmm.  I need to look up Kieran's dwarvish dialog, I think.  The only comment I remember is the "you can't be taller without the Titans" one, which gave me the impression the titans were massive June-crafted blight-specific "antibodies" within the core dwarvish immune system.  Same basic concept as normal dwarves, just really, really big and tough.

 

Is there more to it than that?

[Renmiri1]

spoilers for size but yummmmmmmmmm

 

lil sample

 

Spoiler

 

 

all from

http://sircatherine....cs-gods-have-no

 

 

According to the author Solas exercises each morning very early, on Skyhold's courtyard

 

**** drools *****

[Kryllian]

spoilers for size but yummmmmmmmmm
 

Spoiler

 


 
all from
http://sircatherine....cs-gods-have-no
 

 
According to the author Solas exercises each morning very early, on Skyhold's courtyard
 
**** drools *****

Woooooow, I don't usually care for yoga things... But daaaang. I'd love to see him do tai chi or something

[NightSymphony]

Yeah..I can totally believe that Solas does yoga.

[phyreblade74]

Look what I just realized when trying to translate stuff:

 

-Hellathen: Solas [god]

 

-Herellan: Solas [god]

 

-Bellanaris: Mythal [god]

 

Lavellan is the only other elvish word known with that sound in it. All other words with that root word in it is related to a god. 

 

Which may be what Solas was referring to when he says Lavellan is "real", like nothing he's seen " <distinct pause while he glances down to the right> .... since my earliest days wandering the fade."

 

Flemeth seems to be "gathering" certain people, too, ensuring they're in the proper place at key points.  There's the Warden and then Hawke.  She ponders whether it's fate, or not.  But it almost seems like she's keen on putting the proper people into the proper place precisely when and where they're truly needed.

 

Maybe they're "real" to her, the way that Lavellan is "real" to Solas.  As if they're actually striving to create a new pantheon, that can work to fix what's been broken for so long.

[Sashimi_taco]

Which may be what Solas was referring to when he says Lavellan is "real", like nothing he's seen " <distinct pause while he glances down to the right> .... since my earliest days wandering the fade."

 

Flemeth seems to be "gathering" certain people, too, ensuring they're in the proper place at key points.  There's the Warden and then Hawke.  She ponders whether it's fate, or not.  But it almost seems like she's keen on putting the proper people into the proper place precisely when and where they're truly needed.

 

Maybe they're "real" to her, the way that Lavellan is "real" to Solas.  As if they're actually striving to create a new pantheon, that can work to fix what's been broken for so long.

 

I have the same ideas. Mythal knows something. She's planning something. 

 

UUYIUEGFHLKJEFK>JE I NEED TO KNOW

[CapricornSun]

spoilers for size but yummmmmmmmmm

 

lil sample

 

Spoiler

 

 

all from

http://sircatherine....cs-gods-have-no

 

 

According to the author Solas exercises each morning very early, on Skyhold's courtyard

 

**** drools *****

 

 

I approve of this. 

[madrar]

I have the same ideas. Mythal knows something. She's planning something. 

 

UUYIUEGFHLKJEFK>JE I NEED TO KNOW

 

*places tinfoil hat firmly on her head*

 

Her original intent is lost to time (though it's very faintly hinted the Sun and Earth may have intended to prove a point to the theoretical original Maker via their own creation) but I think everything Mythal has done since the raising of the veil has been to protect and heal her literal Child, Thedas. The OGS powers she granted the Pantheon, the nudging of events throughout history, particularly in regard to red lyrium/blight... all for the Child.  

 

What this means in terms of goals: first, heal the Child's body (deal with immediate threat of red lyrium / blight) and then the Child's soul (ensure social balance and stability to eliminate factors that poison the Fade- the "darker" versions of hunger, rage, hate, fear, etc.)

 

...though if this holds true, it's really hard to wrap my head around her apparent complete lack of concern that the dwarves are mining and selling lyrium.  It seems like the twisting of their original purpose should be kind of a Big Deal.

[HurricaneGinger]

>_>

 

Found another song.

 

 

Lyrics

Spoiler

Cinderella:

Mother cannot guide you.
Now you're on your own.
Only me beside you.
Still, you're not alone.
No one is alone. Truly.
No one is alone.
Sometimes people leave you.
Halfway through the wood.
Others may deceive you.
You decide whats good.
You decide alone.
But no one is alone.
LRRH:
I wish..
Cinderella:
I know.
Mother isn't here now
Baker:
Wrong things, right things
Cinderella:
Who knows what she'd say?
Baker:
Who can say what's true?
Cinderella:
Nothings quite so clear now.
Baker:
Do things, fight things,
Cinderella:
Feel you've lost your way?
Baker:
You decide, but
Both:
You are not alone
Cinderella:
Believe me,
No one is alone
Baker:
No one is alone.
Believe me.
Cinderella:
Truly
Both:
You move just a finger,
Say the slightest word,
Somethings bound to linger
Be heard
Baker:
No one acts alone.
Careful.
No one is alone.
Both:
People make mistakes.
Baker:
Fathers,
Cinderella:
Mothers,
Both:
People make mistakes,
Holding to their own,
Thinking they're alone.
Cinderella:
Honor their mistakes

Cinderella:
Everybody makes

Baker:
Fight for their mistakes

Both:
One another's terrible mistakes.
Witches can be right, Giants can be good.
You decide what's right you decide what's good
Cinderella:
Just remember:
Baker:
[Echo] Just remember:
Both:
Someone is on your side
Jack, LRRH:
OUR side
Baker, Cinderella:
Our side--
Someone else is not
While we're seeing our side
Jack, LRRH:
Our side..
Baker, Cinderella:
Our side--
All:
Maybe we forgot: they are not alone.
No one is alone.
Cinderella:
Hard to see the light now.
Baker:
Just don't let it go
Both:
Things will come out right now.
We can make it so.
Someone is on your side
No one is alone.

[ZerebusPrime]

Just a quick reminder: there is an entire clan of Lavellans... unless of course you choose poorly and get them all killed.

 

Being Dalish is hazardous in this setting.  Across three Dragon Age games you can wipe out three whole clans.

 

Anyway, the Inquisitor being special by virtue of their clan name would by necessity have to also apply to their clan as a whole.

[Valeria Lavellan]

Just a quick reminder: there is an entire clan of Lavellans... unless of course you choose poorly and get them all killed.

 

Being Dalish is hazardous in this setting.  Across three Dragon Age games you can wipe out three whole clans.

 

Anyway, the Inquisitor being special by virtue of their clan name would by necessity have to also apply to their clan as a whole.

I really wish there was something about that. Having Solas or someone comfort the inquisitor about her clan being scattered and killed.

[ZerebusPrime]

There was another Dalish clan wiped out in The Masked Empire, wasn't there?  One wonders how many are left.

[Valeria Lavellan]

I always play this song when I'm roaming around the map thinking my Lavellan is aimlessly searching for Solas, hoping she would eventually bump into him while she continues being the inquisitor.

 

 

 

[Caddius]

Hmm.  I need to look up Kieran's dwarvish dialog, I think.  The only comment I remember is the "you can't be taller without the Titans" one, which gave me the impression the titans were massive June-crafted blight-specific "antibodies" within the core dwarvish immune system.  Same basic concept as normal dwarves, just really, really big and tough.

 

Is there more to it than that?

Cole also has a comment relating to dwarves. The 'You sell it," dialogue, specifically. He doesn't name the Titans, but it's fair to say it's probably what's calling out to the dwarves but can't be heard.

[ZerebusPrime]

I always play this song when I'm roaming around the map thinking my Lavellan is aimlessly searching for Solas, hoping she would eventually bump into him while she continues being the inquisitor.

 

 

 

-snip-

I refuse to click on that youtube video because I now have an image of a Lavellan running around to the tune of Haddaway's "What is Love?", with Iron Bull, Dorian, and Varric all cocking their heads to the beat.

 

It's marvelous.

[Missy_MI]

Flemeth seems to be "gathering" certain people, too, ensuring they're in the proper place at key points.  There's the Warden and then Hawke.  She ponders whether it's fate, or not.  But it almost seems like she's keen on putting the proper people into the proper place precisely when and where they're truly needed.

 

I agree! And after re-watching Flemeth's conversation with Hawke in DA2, I'm now terrified that I made the wrong choice by not making Hawke stay in the Fade. "It is only when you fall that you learn whether you can fly." Hm....

 

 

Couple of other interesting things:

Hawke: Why did you ask me to bring you here?

Flemeth: Because I had an appointment to keep. And because I did not want to be followed. You smuggled me here quite nicely.

 

It's been awhile since I played DA2, do we ever find out what Flemeth's appointment was?

 

And later she says: "I am but a fragment, cast adrift from the whole."

I assumed the piece of Mythal inside Flemeth was the only spark remaining of god's essence. Is it possible the rest of Mythal is somewhere else? Or is she referring to something different?

[Valeria Lavellan]

I refuse to click on that youtube video because I now have an image of a Lavellan running around to the tune of Haddaway's "What is Love?", with Iron Bull, Dorian, and Varric all cocking their heads to the beat.

 

It's marvelous.

At least hey can cheer her up.